Re: Vehicle of the Week: Vedette

[SCC]

On "Pimp a shitcan! OR Entirely missing the point of the Vedette" what can you do before you cross this line?

[Diablo48]

On "Pimp a shitcan! OR Entirely missing the point of the Vedette" what can you do before you cross this line?

I believe the conclusion was replace the gun with a Clan 5-X if you are in Clan space and throw on extra armor.  The additional range and critseeking is great, it gets you a flack bonus for anti-aircraft work, extra armor is never a bad thing, and the 5-X is extremely cheap for the Clans to manufacture.

[SCC]

No, I came up with a model that costs just under 2 million C-bills and was wondering if it was apporaite

[Diablo48]

No, I came up with a model that costs just under 2 million C-bills and was wondering if it was apporaite

Probably not.  The whole point of this tin can is it gets a gun into the field using as little money and technology as possible.  Given that the stock design is well under 1 million, you probably used a fusion engine or some experimental technology which would really be pushing what you can call a Vedette.

Of course, it is also possible you did something with a Fuel Cell and a more expensive but still readily available weapon which could be excused if you got enough of a boost in weapons and armor to justify charging budget-conscious customers 2.5 times as much per machine.  One other thing to be wary of is that with the price jump you may start competing with some of the real MBTs out there which is not going to work no matter how good your design is due to the preconceived notions about the Vedette.

[SCC]

FCE, 3 X LAC-5 w/ 2 tons ammo, MG ammo 1/2 ton and 8 tons armor

[Diablo48]

FCE, 3 X LAC-5 w/ 2 tons ammo, MG ammo 1/2 ton and 8 tons armor

That works for me even if the loss of range is worrying on the modern battlefield, although it does seem a little odd to have a Vedette with three main guns.

[SCC]

Was messing around in SAW with FCE vedette and went to add weapons, LAC-5 caught my eye so I added one, noticed I had room for another so added another then I had room for a third...

[Colt Ward]

Yes, but how much larger did you have to make the turret?

I have messed around that way too, but I put LRMs to back up the gun since I also tend to use rapid fire rules for ACs.  IMO, it makes the old AC units more useful since I do not have Prec & AP spread around . . .

Just to toss this out, how good is the old 3025 standard as a AA unit with Flak ammo?  I mean we have talked about upgrading to LB-5X for AA and Anti-Armor roles, but is it a suitable AA platform with just the ammo change?

[chanman]

The good news is that you don't suffer any loss in ammo capacity with flak. The bad news is that it only does full damage to *airborne* units and conventional infantry. Half damage to everything else, including parked aircraft. That, and IIRC, the Vedette only has one ton of ammo, so you end up with a short-ranged AC/2 when you aren't shooting at aircraft or squishies.

[SCC]

Flak also only gives you a -1 to hit airborne whilst LB-X cluster gets a grand total of -3

[Colt Ward]

True, but if you do not have the LBX to refit . . . and a Vedette in the '50s is going to be a low priority, then the Flak ammo can cover that and hamburger PBIs.  Arming one per lance with Flak ammo might be the way to go to keep pesky VTOLs honest.

[A. Lurker]

Just to toss this out, how good is the old 3025 standard as a AA unit with Flak ammo?  I mean we have talked about upgrading to LB-5X for AA and Anti-Armor roles, but is it a suitable AA platform with just the ammo change?

Well, it's one use for it. As with any application of Vedettes, you'll really want to bring several since LB-X or not and regardless of what ammo you pack you'll still have only one 'real' gun per tank.

Compared straight-up to the notional LB-X upgrade firing cluster (since that's what it would do in that role), you'll have less range, no cluster to-hit bonus (still the -2 for flak, though), and less critseeking against most targets. You'll do on average more raw damage against airborne targets once you do connect (and may be able to threshold some fighters that the LB-X couldn't really scratch beyond the obligatory lawn-dart check), though less against anything on the ground (I think -- TacOps doesn't actually say whether to round up or down when halving the damage, and here we're talking the one weapon for which it would matter. Feeling a bit pessimistic, however, I rather suspect that the intent is "down").

Overall the LB-X is probably the better all-purpose gun, but a stock Vedette with flak ammo won't automatically suck by comparison. At least as long as it can then find itself some airborne targets.

(Also note that as per errata flak ammo doesn't actually do extra damage vs. infantry. It's simply treated as a hit from any other direct-fire ballistic weapon, which will normally work out to one dead trooper per hit here.)

[Sami Jumppanen]

Flak also only gives you a -1 to hit airborne whilst LB-X cluster gets a grand total of -3

I thought that was -2?

[SCC]

I thought that was -2?

Looks like you where right, I thought cluster was the -2

[Moonsword]

True, but if you do not have the LBX to refit . . . and a Vedette in the '50s is going to be a low priority, then the Flak ammo can cover that and hamburger PBIs.

No, it can't.  Flak ammo is no more effective against conventional infantry than standard ammo is.  The meaning of the rules in TO is that it's no less effective, either.

[Matti]

Was messing around in SAW with FCE vedette and went to add weapons, LAC-5 caught my eye so I added one, noticed I had room for another so added another then I had room for a third...

Try LAC/10 8)

[SCC]

Try LAC/10 8)

Doesn't exist,  but the stock standard Gauss Rifle weighs the same and does the same damage with a greater range and only costs ad much as 2 LAC-5's, pity with the 3 LAC-5's it looks like a mini Alacorn

[Diablo48]

Doesn't exist,  but the stock standard Gauss Rifle weighs the same and does the same damage with a greater range and only costs ad much as 2 LAC-5's, pity with the 3 LAC-5's it looks like a mini Alacorn

The Gauss Rifle would fit the old pattern better which is a plus and we all know how dangerous that weapon is, but it might be hard for lower end units to maintain.  You may also want to make an AC 20 variant off the same pattern for urban combat because the old gun is not going to be a maintenance problem and you can offer the newer weapons as an upgrade.

[Colt Ward]

IMO, if you put a AC/20 into a Vedette you have to remove the turret and make it a Tank Destroyer . . . which is very well placed to operate in proper (ambush) terrain as a track using double blind.  Fire, displace while the armor takes a few dings, take cover at the next location and reload!

[Diablo48]

IMO, if you put a AC/20 into a Vedette you have to remove the turret and make it a Tank Destroyer . . . which is very well placed to operate in proper (ambush) terrain as a track using double blind.  Fire, displace while the armor takes a few dings, take cover at the next location and reload!

That is honestly probably a better idea because of how much tougher it lets you make the vehicle, but it sounds like the FCE frees up enough weight to shove it in the turret.

[SCC]

That is honestly probably a better idea because of how much tougher it lets you make the vehicle, but it sounds like the FCE frees up enough weight to shove it in the turret.

You an fit a GR, so there's enough room for a UAC-20 which might go better for parts swapping, other wise AC-20 with 3 tons ammo or an extra ton armor

[Cowdragon]

great thread. I love the Vedette! Some super ideas in here. :)

[Moonsword]

I've moved the recent, primarily fan design-centric discussion into the Fan Designs area so people can freely post their designs in a discussion like this one.