Author Topic: Gen Con 2017 New Releases  (Read 36241 times)

Stinger

  • Freelance Artist
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1423
  • Artist, Writer, 3D Modeler Extraordinaire
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #150 on: 21 August 2017, 07:27:12 »
Yeah, gotta give you big props on that one.  8)   Takes me back to MW4: Mercenaries  {>{>

Going to need a couple of those, some Hellspawns, a Chimera...

There will be a new Cougar in the 4th quarter that has a nice MW4 feel to it as well :) I can't wait for you guys to get your hands on it...

mbear

  • Stood Far Back When The Gravitas Was Handed Out
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4499
    • Tower of Jade
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #151 on: 21 August 2017, 08:52:19 »
OK so what does "GoAC" box mean?
Be the Loremaster:

Battletech transport rules take a very feline approach to moving troops in a combat zone: If they fits, they ships.

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your BT experience. Now what? (Thanks Sartis!)

Sartris

  • Codex Conditor
  • BattleTech Volunteer
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 19868
  • Cap’n-Generalissimost
    • Master Unit List
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #152 on: 21 August 2017, 08:55:19 »
OK so what does "GoAC" box mean?

Game of Armored Combat box. The one with the two lances is getting the old school subtitle 

You bought the box set and are ready to expand your bt experience. Now what? | Modern Sourcebook Index | FASA Sourcebook Index | Print on Demand Index
Equipment Reference Cards | DIY Pilot Cards | PaperTech Mech and Vehicle Counters

Quote
Interviewer: Since you’ve stopped making art, how do you spend your time?
Paul Chan Breathers: Oh, I’m a breather. I’m a respirateur. Isn’t that enough?

Tymers Realm

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1292
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #153 on: 21 August 2017, 08:55:36 »
OK so what does "GoAC" box mean?
Game of Armored Combat

What was listed for the 8-Mech box.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25118
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #154 on: 21 August 2017, 09:43:14 »
I just watched the video. 

My take..
  • So...IlClan sourcebook not coming out anytime soon.  So am i misunderstanding, Brent going essentially rework IlClan sourcebook into something else, like a more traditional book vs the hybrid sourcebook/scenario book they've mentioned before? The stuff for IlClan should be out by next GenCon in the Brent mentioned were going in the "middle of it" by then.
  • No mention of any of the other PDF only books mentioned in past including TROs we've been waiting on.
Did anyone ask brent questions after the video?
"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

pheonixstorm

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #155 on: 21 August 2017, 14:32:32 »

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Cause Them My Initials!
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #156 on: 21 August 2017, 15:09:33 »
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

pheonixstorm

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #157 on: 21 August 2017, 15:15:30 »
umm.. I think I may have posted in the wrong thread?

GRUD

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3026
  • Quinn's Quads - 'Mechs on the March!
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #158 on: 21 August 2017, 16:33:33 »
Did anyone ask brent questions after the video?

Unsatisfying answer incoming!   #P


Yes.  The Seminar ended at 9P, Brent and Ray stayed until 10:45P talking and answering questions.  I was talking with Dave Fanjoy for part of that time and missed out on quite a bit, but I DID ask Brent Friday about maps.  They had new AS maps for the Demo Teams made, all with the same features, just different "ground".  One is grassland, 1 is snow, 1 is sand, and 1 looks like the moon. They're all printed on rubber mats, but will NOT be available for sale.  I asked Brent about them after seeing them, and he said they ARE looking in to making new maps, but I didn't think until Sunday evening to ask if they'll be on paper or cardboard.   :-[


I'm Sorry that's all I remember for after the Seminar.   :-[  Pester Ray and Dak, because they were both there also.   O0
To me, Repros are 100% Wrong, and there's NO  room for me to give ground on this subject. I'm not just an Immovable Object on this, I'm THE Immovable Object. 3D Prints are just 3D Repros.

Something to bear in Mind. Defending the BT IP is Frowned upon here.

Remember: Humor is NOT Tolerated here. Have a Nice Day!

Hey! Can't a guy get any Privacy around here!

sadlerbw

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1679
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #159 on: 21 August 2017, 17:29:53 »
Yeah, sorry about that. My phone was at about 3% at that point, so I couldn't keep rolling after the main event broke up. But, like GRUD said, Brent and Ray stuck around to answer more questions, and honestly I can't think of a single one they didn't try to give us SOME information on. I've got some pictures of those playmats GRUD mentioned in my GenCon album (link is back on p.4 of this thread) I think they looked pretty darn good. I don't remember everything he said, but I did put up some things earlier in this thread as well along with the video link. A couple things that stick out in my mind from the post-What's-up time:

- They want new maps and are working on them. Don't know what format they will be in yet, so didn't want to elaborate more. He did mention that sometime in the past few years the price of cardboard went crazy, like 500% increase in a single year. I believe he mentioned that the cardboard in the last run of intro box sets cost as much, or more, than everything else inside of it.

- Brent felt that the current state of ilClan was too dry, too much like an reading after-action report. He wants it to be more of an event, and to have it be a bit more exciting. Sort of like reading a novel rather than the wikipedia synopsis of the novel. When asked if it would be out next Gencon, he said we would definitely be "in the middle of it" by then. He wouldn't be drawn out on how one could be in the middle of a single book. I got the impression he felt the current plan was lacking in drama and excitement, and wants to make ilClan feel like a big, important thing, and not just a book that happens to tie up some plot threads. He was pretty passionate about this.

- There was a sort of open discussion about the problems new players had getting into the game these days. Lots of folks had their own opinions, and Brent and Ray mostly listened and asked for people to clarify some things. Obviously they care about cost of entry and new player confusion quite a bit, as you can see from the products that have been coming out. Once the intro boxes are out, there will be a much simpler path into BattleTech. Starter Box -> GoAC box -> BMM. Brent also mentioned problems with retailers having no idea what minis to stock since we have so darn many of them.

- Brent mentioned that he wanted the game to place a bit more importance on the MechWarrior. So much of the great fiction and fluff we have is about the pilots, and really what a mech can do is as much defined by the MechWarrior driving it as it is by the hardware it carries. Brent wants to make sure the game lets the MechWarrior be a hero when you play and not only the mech. At least, that is my interpretation of what he was saying.

- Don't expect large Warship fleets to figure heavily into the plot going forward. While Ray and Brent both liked Aerotech in general, they weren't looking to go back to growing the warship fleets again.

- I also asked how they felt about Aerotech. They both love the idea, but aren't in love with where the rules and gameplay are with it right now. Especially the interaction with mechs and other units on the ground. It isn't a high priority to mess with, but it is something they would look into if the opportunity came up.

- While they will not be throwing out any rules for other units, or trying to write them out of existence, expect the game development to focus most on Mechs. The perception is that people come to BattleTech for the Mechs. They may like the tanks, and Aero, and infantry once they get here, but the Mechs draw them in.

- Brent wanted to do an informal poll about how cheap he would have to make ICE Mechs for us to start choosing to use them over something like a Urbanmech, which is also terrible. The general sense in the room was that people didn't want to use them for thematic reasons more than game balance reasons. The idea of a farmer with a 20mm cannon strapped to his John Deere wasn't terribly satisfying or believable to most folks there. The way I put it was, if you are poor and need an army, you buy tanks and other combat vehicles...because you are still a military. The only people who, thematically speaking, up-armor agromechs are insurgents and rebels. It just didn't seem like most military units or mercs, no matter how poor, would pick a Industrial Mod over an actual combat vehicle. On the gameplay side of things, they can't really do much of anything a decent combat vehicle can't do. I made the comment that, if you gave me a reason to believe they have a chance against a tank, I'd consider running a mod mech. I gave the example that, if a Mod could walk up a tank and flip it over to put it out of commission, then I could see why it might have some utility to a planetary militia or some other low-end unit. That way it isn't as much of a guaranteed suicide mission to take a mod up against a real piece of military hardware, in a fictional, in-universe sense.

- Also, Brent didn't really get why the Urbie is so popular. We basically told him that it was a combination of looking silly, yet believable, having a history of crazy exploits, and being something of a meme of inside joke. I compared it to that awful asian guy who was on American Idol a couple years back. He was undeniably terrible, but he was funny and seriously dedicated, and the audience loved him. The Urbie is the same way. We all know it is bad, but it still tries hard and has had some absolutely hilarious moments in the history of the game.

- I remember someone from the UK asking about something...distribution maybe? Not sure.

- I asked Ray and Brent what they felt the most important thing to define a faction was. Brent had a great and nuanced answer...that I didn't write down and can't manage to relay coherently right now. I thought he would say the color! Oddly, Ray though the color WAS super important. He mentioned that, in their experience, new players most often pick a faction based on what color its units are. So making sure Marik are still 'the purple guys' is important.

- I tried to get a little more color on the Combat Manual question. I asked if the Art was what made them so expensive, and was told yes and no. The art WAS a big part of the cost for developing those books, but even with no art at all, they didn't move enough units through retailers. They didn't say this directly, but physical copies just didn't move. I get the impression that the people who were buying them either bought PDF, or bought through a convention or the CGL store. They were just sitting in the retail channel, and that was a big problem. The curse of faction books was mentioned. No matter how awesome they make them, single-faction products are always troublesome.

It was 50 minutes of questions. I'm trying to dredge up what happened, but it's been GenCon since then. My brain is just a wee bit fried! That's all I can remember right now.

Wrangler

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 25118
  • Dang it!
    • Battletech Fanon Wiki
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #160 on: 21 August 2017, 19:19:18 »
That's bit worrisome...

I like Warship fleets, what hell point of having warship in first place? Battletech is big enough universe for everything. *sigh* Their just going lose more player. then again i suspect they've already lost most of the people were into the Warships by now except for the diehards. :/  Sorry guys i sounded bad.

Redoing the IlClan book is fine, but when heck do they think it will get done?  2 years from now? It's taking while for sourcebook get done. The novels is where excitement is located.  I've never once read exciting sourcebook except Wars of Reaving. 

ICE Battlemech thing is odd to me. Dark Age is where that stuff happened.  Why re-introduce more into this? Were suppose to be in more high tech age? Use primitives mechs instead of ice, the Raider is only canon ICE Battlemech made available. It's not great machine. :/

Thanks salderbw for making the video! Everyone else who posted.  I'm actually disappointed in CGL. Were going wait longer now. Super...

"Men, fetch the Urbanmechs.  We have an interrogation to attend to." - jklantern
"How do you defeat a Dragau? Shoot the damn thing. Lots." - Jellico 
"No, it's a "Most Awesome Blues Brothers scene Reenactment EVER" waiting to happen." VotW Destrier - Weirdo  
"It's 200 LY to Sian, we got a full load of shells, a half a platoon of Grenadiers, it's exploding outside, and we're wearing flak jackets." VoTW Destrier - Misterpants
-Editor on Battletech Fanon Wiki

Liam's Ghost

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7946
  • Miss Chitty finds your honor rules quaint.
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #161 on: 21 August 2017, 19:32:11 »
ICE Battlemech thing is odd to me. Dark Age is where that stuff happened.  Why re-introduce more into this? Were suppose to be in more high tech age? Use primitives mechs instead of ice, the Raider is only canon ICE Battlemech made available. It's not great machine. :/

We have indications of a new clan empire. Possibly one that dominates the inner sphere. Scrappy, ragtag rebels striking from hidden bases take what they can get.  :P

(note this is only a wild guess on my part)
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13720
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #162 on: 21 August 2017, 20:14:57 »
I like the idea of armed civilian equipment if and only if the forces using them are armed civilians.  Otherwise just buy a cheap tank, because you can get Scorpions literally by the dozen at just about the drop of a hat regardless of who or where you are.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

DarkSpade

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3668
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #163 on: 21 August 2017, 20:19:15 »
I think the real question is, would ICE mechs add anything interesting to the game? 

Personally, I don't think they would.
Space Marines are guys who look at a chainsaw and think, “That should be balanced for parrying.”

Empyrus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9122
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #164 on: 21 August 2017, 20:39:45 »
Some comments on the summary points (not in order):

Personally i like the idea of armed WorkMechs. Indeed, i might actually prefer to them to non-BattleMech alternatives. Provided they're actually viable units, which they aren't as it is really; you're better of with a tank now. I don't care for Primitives outside the Age of War, i really don't care for the concept of RetroTech, doesn't really make sense to me (i see it as making T-34s in modern day to fight against modern tanks or a generation old tanks like T-72).
But unless rules are modified (and that opens a big can of worms), armed industrials just plain suck.

I assume vinyl mat-printed maps would be even more expensive than cardboard, even with raised cardboard prices?

Not gonna miss Warships. Hell, they don't make sense in-universe really, canonical material acknowledges ASF being more cost-effective than WarShips! (Strategic Operations story section for Advanced Aerospace, i think.) I figure small fighters suit BattleTech's style more: It is a man against a man.

I assume the MechWarrior stuff relates to an idea voiced last year at some place that 'Mechs would gain special ability cards or something like that? Interesting concept, i'm not opposed to limited amount of "roleplaying stuff" given that the game already has skill ratings.

Naturally we don't know how IlClan was/is, but sourcebooks being dry is kind of an issue for BattleTech. Reading history is interesting but it needs a voice to make it more than just a history book. And scale matters. I regard Operation KLONDIKE and Wars of Reaving as the best sourcebooks i've read due to their relatively limited scale, allowing good amount of detail while being reasonably easy to follow, and especially the latter having a voice for the narrative. The Succession Wars books are good but contain so many places and things i found following event placement difficult; and they have a certain lack of voice voice, being historical treatises though this does fit them. The Jihad books contain multiple voices which lend them character, fitting the time though the effect can be jarring at times; however, i do like the overall result.
That said, i am not sure how else to present BattleTech events, if we ignore novels. Will be interested to see what we will get.

TurboCooler

  • Private
  • *
  • Posts: 34
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #165 on: 21 August 2017, 20:50:47 »
Here is my observation for what it is worth.

  • If they want to highlight MechWarriors, have pilot cards like X-Wing
  • Define Factions and define the Mechs in that faction and then give players the faction colors they should be painted and emblems they will use.  It is okay that some mechs repeat
  • The weapons load out for the mech will be based on the experience of MechWarrior.  Give mech weapons slots
  • This leads to a points system.  Define it such you have options but limit the costs
  • Simplify Armor and Structure Hits.
  • Simplify heat.
  • Keep the hex maps but add overlay terrain like water, forests, rocks etc.

IMHO, most people are introduced to the simplified rules even at demo games but few want the deeper detail and Minutia.  In order for the game to grow you first need more people to play.  Some will stick with the mech on mech play others will move to deeper more detailed games but first you need more people to play. 

That means rethinking and rebooting.  Use cards for stats like X-Wing, Armada or even Star Wars Legion.  Yes, highlight MechWarriors and Heros of the BattleTech Lore.  Make them commanders with special abilities.  In many ways current BT is too big.  And before you say Alpha Strike, sure, but maybe Alpha Strike 2.0 not in its current iteration.  Actually, Alpha Strike would be a better way to reboot since it does not have a long history.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29039
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #166 on: 21 August 2017, 21:06:28 »
So . . . specific pilot skills?  It exists in the RPG setting and can easily be ported over- MegaMek already does this- but as with anything its an advanced set of rules.

3rd Point?  That is OmniMechs sort of, and most people will only play with canon & mass produced mechs- IE, unless you are fighting Archer's Avengers or Avanti's Angels you will not likely see a Penetrator with cERLL or Caeser with Clan Gauss, ERPPC & MPLs.

I will miss warships, but the in universe reasoning is part of the reason its broken.  If we are not getting warships and it will be PWS using SubCaps then we also need some backfill . . . like a Age of War small craft carrier or even the notional Union/Overlord CVs.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Cause Them My Initials!
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #167 on: 21 August 2017, 21:10:20 »
I've always wanted to see specific Pilot skills like those along the lines of MechCommander 2. Things like Light/Medium etc Mech Specialist, or laser Specialist or Missile Specialist, etc.

So, abilities where the pilot is good in a light and so has  +1 PS modifier while in Lights, but is no better/worse in a anything else.

Or, gets a +1 To Hit modifier when employing Medium Lasers, but other types, not so much.
AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29039
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #168 on: 21 August 2017, 21:19:54 »
 . . . its there . . . in two forms.  You have the SPAs introduced in some Chaos or AS book, my group has played with them.  We showed up for a pick up game with a objective and each player was told to pick a index card from the stack to use one of the new SPAs for one of their mechs.

But all they really are is reworking of IIRC MW RPG skill sets . . . like Gunnery: Laser, Gunnery: Missile, or Iron Man (whatever it was to take less pilot damage).
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

pheonixstorm

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #169 on: 21 August 2017, 21:38:29 »
That level of detail, at least for weapons, is already a part of aToW.

Here is my observation for what it is worth.

  • If they want to highlight MechWarriors, have pilot cards like X-Wing
  • Define Factions and define the Mechs in that faction and then give players the faction colors they should be painted and emblems they will use.  It is okay that some mechs repeat
  • The weapons load out for the mech will be based on the experience of MechWarrior.  Give mech weapons slots
  • This leads to a points system.  Define it such you have options but limit the costs
  • Simplify Armor and Structure Hits.
  • Simplify heat.
  • Keep the hex maps but add overlay terrain like water, forests, rocks etc.
1. Play using A Time of War rules/skills. If not, this adds more complexity to the current game.
2. Each faction does have a number of unique designs, though given the nature of the universe even those designs are spread around. Also, the factions and their armies are mostly defined already as can be seen in the unit lists or on camo specs. Do you mean to whittle down the number of regiments and paint schemes each house has?
3. Thats starting to sound more 40K/Clicky tech. There are rules for custom machines, and each Mechwarrior can have skills if playing aToW
4. So something new instead of Battle Value (BV2, Total Warfare) or Pont Value (PV, Alpha Strike)?
5. So, Alpha Strike
6. Again, Alpha Strike
7. Got the money for this lofty idea? Something like this was tried with the hex packs but was deemed costly and difficult to get a return on.

Quote
That means rethinking and rebooting.  Use cards for stats like X-Wing, Armada or even Star Wars Legion.  Yes, highlight MechWarriors and Heros of the BattleTech Lore.  Make them commanders with special abilities.  In many ways current BT is too big.  And before you say Alpha Strike, sure, but maybe Alpha Strike 2.0 not in its current iteration.  Actually, Alpha Strike would be a better way to reboot since it does not have a long history.

Here is the problem. This isn't Fantasy Flight or Warhammer. This also isn't clicky tech mechwarrior. Rebooting BattleTech? BT doesn't have a lot of players as is. What happens if CGL tries a reboot and fails? Even with a great concept the game does not have the name recognition or finances it did back in the 80s and early to mid 90s.  As for using Alpha Strike as the jumping point, it has a fair amount of fans for its faster pace and fresher design feel. For the most part the game is about the mechs not the pilots. The NOVELs on the other hand, and the sourcebooks are more or less about the pilots and not the mechs. The TROs have notable pilots as well but rarely is there anything special about them other than deeds rather than some special skills.

Now from what I have read the clicky tech mechwarrior was fairly popular with new players, not so much for older players. The minis are still sought after and useful for the current TW and AS rules since they are close to the correct size. Based on your thoughts and ideas it would probably be easier to use IT as the base and not try to alter the current rules systems.

pheonixstorm

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5548
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #170 on: 21 August 2017, 21:40:51 »
You have the SPAs introduced in...

A Time of War and its Companion
Alpha Strike Companion
Campaign Operation.

That is in order to the best of my knowledge

Scotty

  • Alpha Strike Guru by appointment to the FWLM
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13720
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #171 on: 21 August 2017, 21:42:27 »
I don't think there's a single other point of argument on this forum that makes me more irritated than the idea that simplifying Total Warfare at all in any way equals Alpha Strike.  I could take an hour and write my own simplified BattleTech ruleset that was still more complicated than Alpha Strike.  And I say that as someone who loves Alpha Strike to a frankly unreasonable extent.

There's a huge gulf between TW and AS.
Catalyst Demo Agent #679

Kansas City players, or people who are just passing through the area, come join us at the Geekery just off Shawnee Mission Parkway for BattleTech!  Current days are Tuesdays in the afternoon and evening.  I can't make every single week, but odds are pretty good that somebody will be there.

NeonKnight

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 6393
  • Cause Them My Initials!
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #172 on: 21 August 2017, 22:06:31 »
A Time of War and its Companion
Alpha Strike Companion
Campaign Operation.

That is in order to the best of my knowledge

And none of those cover what I proposed. There is currently no SPA that makes a pilot better in a Medium Mech but average in everything else. The closest SPA for weapons is weapon specialist which grants a -2 bonus.

AGENT #575, Vancouver Canada

greatsarcasmo

  • Fabricator General
  • Global Moderator
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6423
  • Ordo Scriptorum
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #173 on: 21 August 2017, 22:09:03 »
Yess... literally handed in the catapult a few days ago so glad they managed to get it printed for the show :)
My printer was pretty freaking tired by that point, so the prints could have been better, but she looks good.
Maker of big things.

Adrian Gideon

  • BattleTech Developer
  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 6836
  • BattleTech Line Developer
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #174 on: 21 August 2017, 22:32:29 »
The "faction books don't sell" isn't what happened with the Combat Manuals—yes, that's what was said, but it's wrong, beside which I firmly believe that to have always been misinterpretation of other factors. But in this case, that's definitely not what hampered the CMs. It's just an easy response.
If you appreciate how I’m doing, send me a tip: ko-fi.com/rayarrastia
fb.com/battletechgame
@CGL_BattleTech

abou

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1900
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #175 on: 21 August 2017, 22:51:50 »
The "faction books don't sell" isn't what happened with the Combat Manuals—yes, that's what was said, but it's wrong, beside which I firmly believe that to have always been misinterpretation of other factors. But in this case, that's definitely not what hampered the CMs. It's just an easy response.
I am glad to hear that, Ray. The two that have come out are great products and worth continuing.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 29039
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #176 on: 21 August 2017, 23:11:41 »
The "faction books don't sell" isn't what happened with the Combat Manuals—yes, that's what was said, but it's wrong, beside which I firmly believe that to have always been misinterpretation of other factors. But in this case, that's definitely not what hampered the CMs. It's just an easy response.

This reminds me of a question I had not seen addressed . . .

The previous leads had said on occasion that they wanted to pare down the number of factions they got handed by the MWDA materials.  And they did, and even indicated that they had more factions going into the Jihad than they liked.  Does the current lead team feel that way as well?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

sadlerbw

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1679
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #177 on: 21 August 2017, 23:19:39 »
The "faction books don't sell" isn't what happened with the Combat Manuals—yes, that's what was said, but it's wrong, beside which I firmly believe that to have always been misinterpretation of other factors. But in this case, that's definitely not what hampered the CMs. It's just an easy response.

Good to know. No surprise that each instance where a faction book hasn't done as well as hoped has been somewhat unique. Also, Brent is human and was getting grilled left and right; No big deal if he mis-spoke about the combat manuals and thanks for setting the record straight.

Honestly, the more important statement to me was that the books weren't moving through stores well enough. Were they moving well through PDF or the CGL web store? No clue, and I didn't really ask. But the number sitting on shelves in retail was mentioned, and it makes a whole lot of sense. If they were being pushed out to the distributors and the retail channel and weren't moving well enough, that is absolutely an issue that would need to be dealt with before releasing any more.

Also, I don't think I made it clear enough that Brent never said the CMs were dead. Just that the original plan needed to change before they start moving forward again. He never said you folks wouldn't do more of them, or that they were on the back burner. Just that there were some things that would need to change after seeing how the first two worked out. I think I made it sound more doomy and gloomy than it really was. My bad there.

EDIT:

Also, I don't think I conveyed the warship thing quite well enough either. They didn't say warships would be gone completely. Just that we shouldn't expect a buildup of new, big fleets. There was a feeling that, in-universe, it just didn't make sense to build a big warship fleet, and that the factions have figured this out. They are too vulnerable to asymmetric threats, too resource intensive, and really vulnerable to sabotage. So, there will probably still be some around, but we won't likely see a big ramp up of production like before the Jihad, or the big fleets of the star league and early succession wars. It won't be zero like in 3025, but don't expect any faction to start building a big new fleet.

No one said it, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Leviathan mentioned in XTRO republic III never makes it out of the dock.
« Last Edit: 21 August 2017, 23:32:45 by sadlerbw »

Doom

  • Master Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 233
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #178 on: 21 August 2017, 23:26:22 »
What I liked most about the Combat Manuals was the coherent voice. Multi-faction books usually have different authors for the various factions. The writing quality oscillates considerably, and the voice is never consistent. I suppose I could get behind a multi-faction book if it weren't muddied by multiple authors as well.  :-\

YingJanshi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4511
  • Switch Friend Code: SW-4326-4622-8514
Re: Gen Con 2017 New Releases
« Reply #179 on: 21 August 2017, 23:30:02 »
Here is my observation for what it is worth.

  • If they want to highlight MechWarriors, have pilot cards like X-Wing
  • Define Factions and define the Mechs in that faction and then give players the faction colors they should be painted and emblems they will use.  It is okay that some mechs repeat
  • The weapons load out for the mech will be based on the experience of MechWarrior.  Give mech weapons slots
  • This leads to a points system.  Define it such you have options but limit the costs
  • Simplify Armor and Structure Hits.
  • Simplify heat.
  • Keep the hex maps but add overlay terrain like water, forests, rocks etc.
IMHO, most people are introduced to the simplified rules even at demo games but few want the deeper detail and Minutia.  In order for the game to grow you first need more people to play.  Some will stick with the mech on mech play others will move to deeper more detailed games but first you need more people to play. 

That means rethinking and rebooting.  Use cards for stats like X-Wing, Armada or even Star Wars Legion.  Yes, highlight MechWarriors and Heros of the BattleTech Lore.  Make them commanders with special abilities.  In many ways current BT is too big.  And before you say Alpha Strike, sure, but maybe Alpha Strike 2.0 not in its current iteration.  Actually, Alpha Strike would be a better way to reboot since it does not have a long history.

I'd say Alpha Strike is a a step in the right direction. And I firmly believe that BattleMech Manual can eventually lead to a streamlining of the entire TW level of play. (At least I'd like to see what they did with that book done with non-'Mech units.)

But the reboot thing was done before. Look at Wizkids and ClickyTech. Sure, it brought in a lot of new people, but it also made a lot of people walk away from the franchise.

Frankly we can't afford to have people walk away. The fanbase is too small as it is. Which is why I applaud CGL and how they've managed Alpha Strike. They've pushed it not as a replacement for the classic ruleset, but complementary to it.

Saying reboot around here makes people skittish. The core 'Mech on 'Mech rules have gone relatively unchanged over the past few decades and I think that's one of the franchise's strengths. There's a continuity there, that even if you played 20 years ago, you'd only need a short while to get caught up with the basics. And I think CGL has done a really good job of making gradations between the different depths of play.

I guess my point is: we can't afford to alienate old players by chasing gaming trends to attract a new player. We have to find a middle way if keeping what's unique about BattleTech, while also making it assessable to new players who might not approach gaming in the same way as us oldsters. And I think CGL is doing a fine job of that with TW/AS/BF/SBF/ISaW.

Initiate of the Order of Valhalla

(HBS: Backer #4,960)
(Clan Invasion: Backer #314)
(Mercenaries: Backer #6,017)

 

Register