Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank  (Read 8832 times)

False Son

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Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« on: 26 November 2013, 15:38:52 »

DI Schmitt Tank, pg. 21, TRO: 3145 Lyran Commonwealth
   -Who needs tracks when you got rims?

In the spirit of modern car manufacturers, Defiance Industries as branded their products so thoroughly it has become difficult to speak of them without the DI namesake mentioned.  Joining the prestigious ranks of the DI Morgan and DI Multirole is the DI Schmitt Tank.  Stats for this 80 ton bruiser have been long coming.  For some fans of the old MWDA game, where the DI Schmitt was rolling death, the DI Schmitt has been a much anticipated addition.  Like many of the MWDA units, the DI Schmitt suffers some construction shortcomings when dropped into Battletech.  The massive and varied armament of the DI Schmitt carried over from the MWDA dossiers influenced the overall design.

But, what an armament it has!  Twin RAC5s, a LRM15, twin machine gun and a quad mount of medium lasers mounted in the turret provide the user with more firepower than the average 80 ton tank.  A whopping 99 points of damage from the turret alone!  Though, in reality your average damage will be well below this.  Twin flamers mounted in the front of the tank also gives you the ability to light wooded hexes on fire and cause heat damage to those pesky TSM mechs.  Taken together the weapons scream short ranged brawler. 

The LRM15 is the odd duck in the weapons package.  The traditional minimum range of the Inner Sphere LRM launcher keeps it from being effectively used with the medium lasers, and a single LRM15 is hardly force your opponents to duck inside your minimum range.  The real utility of having a token LRM15, lies in indirect fire.  Pegging your opponent with a few indirect LRMs might give them an incentive to crest that hill or round that corner to where your DI Schmitt is waiting with bared teeth.  This ability is also handy for when the DI Schmitt becomes immobilized, or a crafty opponent stays at 16-21 hexes.  2 tons of ammo for the LRM15 means you can also consider a ton of non standard missiles for utility.

All those weapons and heat sinks come at a cost.  Movement is limited to a 3/5 profile by the DAV 220 XL Fusion Engine.  Armor tops out at 8.5 tons of Ferro Fibrous arranged 45/31/20/25.  This is far below the maximum for a 80 ton tank at 1457 Battle Value.  The front armor can withstand 3 hits from a Gauss rifle or the increasingly common clan ERPPC before expossing internal structure.  The sides capable of 2.  The turret, however, at 25 points is too thinly armored to expose even in hull down conditions.  The Wheeled chassis further complicates the movement options and survivability.  A DI Schmitt may look as mean, but it cannot take many hits without the armor giving or the tires exploding.  Either problem is trouble enough for an assault tank.  The designers sacrificed mobility and armor in order to pack a massive punch in the turret.

Which brings up another question: Why exactly does this thing exist?  The LCAF already has the short ranged firepower circuit ably covered by the Demolisher II and Fortune Wheeled Assault Vehicle.  And, not even by some other, mysterious manufacturer, either.  Defiance Industries actually makes all three vehicles, on the same planet! Well, inquisitive reader, what the DI Schmitt brings to the table (besides a MWDA origin) is the nature of it's short ranged firepower.  The Demolisher II and Fortune offer a 1-2 boom boom punch that can certainly crush the ambitions of an unfortunate foe.  But, the firepower is concentrated in the power of 2 guns each.  The DI Schmitt's weaponry is concentrated in mostly 5 point clusters in multiple weapons.  This requires more successfull hits to equal the hitting power of a Fortune or Demolisher II, but at the same time gives you a greater chance of hitting with something.  That bucket of to-hit rolls will come in handy when you are fighting things like Battle Armor, where your 5 point clusters of damage are going to add up.

Defiance has exported the DI Schmitt to neighboring Free Worlds states where Ontos deliveries have been complicated by political divisions.  If the RATs are an accurate reflection, the RAF also holds the DI Schmitt in high regard, assigning them the vaunted 7 position on 2D6.

Quirks are more mercifully.  A trailer hitch and the anti aircraft targetting quirks are positives, with no noted drawbacks.  Taken together, this suggests a dual role as mule and bodyguard for towed vehicles.  All sorts of fun combinations can be assembled from the trailer hitch, including a one stop road block in urban combat.  Simply hook up a gun trailer and hang a sign saying "Road Closed". 

~

The only listed variant of the DI Schmitt attempts to correct some of the more blatant construction shortcomings.  The engine fed Flamers are swapped out for a pair of Vehicular Flamers.  This allows for some alternate ammo use, but also frees up the 6 heat sinks needed to handle the engine fed versions.  Reversing that mistake (the worst tonnage to damage tradeoffs since the ICE Ontos) allows the DI Schmitt to mount a targetting computer.  Otherwise it remains unchanged.  The Targetting Computer variant comes in at 1625 BV.

~

Using a DI Schmitt will prove challenging.  Anyone familiar with the old Ontos will feel right at home.  The DI Schmitt picks up the overly armed, slow and underarmored roles once filled by the Ontos.  Ambushes and bodyguard are the primary duties of this tank, with a passable future in urban combat.  The antiaircraft targetting quirk suggests an above average ability to take on airborne units, but the weapons are not optimized for the job.  Stick to places where your DI Schmitt's huge arsenal, mediocre armor and wheeled chassis won't attract much attention.  Look into alternate ammunition for the LRM rack and vehicular flamers, if you use the t-comp variant.  Some mine clearance missiles can make all the difference, especially in urban conditions where mobility is restricted and mines are predatory to wheeled vehicles.  Set up your ambush carefully break faces.

Defeating a DI Schmitt is fairly easy as long as you begin the process at range.  One of the traditional tools for crippling assaults tank, SRMs will put you at risk of being hit by the DI Schmitt's guns.  Avoid using those unless mine clearance or tear gas SRMs are loaded, so you could use them at 9 hexes and minimize your chances of being hit with medium lasers.  LBX cluster rounds and LRMs are far more reliable.  Immobilize the DI Schmitt and focus fire on the turret.  Not only does it have weaker armor than the front and sides, the turret can be targetted from any arc.

But, if you must engage the DI Schmitt in close quarters, be cautious with your choices in battle armor.  The large number of 5 point clusters and several chances to hit can wither your battle armor down in quick order.  Reflective armor of the DCMS Zou will help to reduce the damage of the medium lasers.  The RAC5s can still put out the majority fo the damage, so beware.  Choose carefully, because the DI Schmitt can destroy your battle armor in quick order.  Conventional infantry is more resilient to the DI Schmitt's RACs and lasers, but should not stray too close, less they be shredded and burned by the DI Schmitt's machine guns and flamers.  Laser, SRM and other long ranged conventional infantry can and should avoid the limited range of these weapons and paralyze the tank.
« Last Edit: 27 November 2013, 09:20:46 by False Son »
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marauder648

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #1 on: 27 November 2013, 02:09:35 »
Great review of an evil tank!  And I had one of those O_o moments when I realised that DI meant Defiance Industries...yeah it didn't click into place until about a hour ago.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #2 on: 27 November 2013, 03:44:10 »
Reactive armor, like that of the FWLM Xiphos helps somewhat more than the reflective armor of the DCMS Zou.  Choose carefully, because the DI Schmitt can destroy your battle armor in quick order. 
Reactive only helps against the LRMs, which at the range most BA are engaging are a minor concern while the Medium Lasers are not.  I'd swap the advice on reactive vs reflective here.  You still probably don't want to have your BA get within firing range of a DI Schmitt that doesn't have a locked turret. 

Overall, a good review of a very scary tank.  Not something you want to run into at close range, as it'll just sand your armor off with the volume of 5-point hits it can throw out.  And the version with the Targeting Computer you REALLY do not want your battle armor approaching, as it'll quickly end in a bunch of vaguely battle armorish piles of scrap.  Lighter mechs should also steer clear of that amount of dakka. 

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #3 on: 27 November 2013, 04:02:11 »
Medium mech's too.  I doubt there's many mechs around that would want a pair of RAC's going http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcR-oGeBXmc at them 
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #4 on: 27 November 2013, 08:55:05 »
I can attest to the lethality of the DI Schmitt in the " clicky " era. The Dragon's Fury model was a rolling death machine. One of my favorite units for the game. >:D

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #5 on: 27 November 2013, 08:59:01 »
Medium mech's too.  I doubt there's many mechs around that would want a pair of RAC's going http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcR-oGeBXmc at them 
Cool video! O0

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #6 on: 27 November 2013, 09:25:17 »
Reactive only helps against the LRMs, which at the range most BA are engaging are a minor concern while the Medium Lasers are not.  I'd swap the advice on reactive vs reflective here.  You still probably don't want to have your BA get within firing range of a DI Schmitt that doesn't have a locked turret. 

You are absolutely right.  I for some reason mashed the abilities of Reactive and Ballistic-Reactive together.  That change has been made.  Thanks.


I'm glad this tank was finally given stats.  I knew from the MWDA dossiers there was only so much that could be done within BT construction rules.  I'm mostly happy with the results once I started to think of it in the company of the Demolisher II and Fortune.  And, it gets plenty of style points.  Wheels may not help it in game, but they do give the DI Schmitt a certain menacing air.
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jymset

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #7 on: 27 November 2013, 13:44:30 »
Actually, the DI Schmitt did have stats in 2003's Record Sheets: MechWarrior Dark Age. They remain the official stats through TRO 3145.

Obviously, we are all keenly aware of its massive room for tweaking. But any variant would have immediately made the basic model redundant. The Flamers, the low (quality) armour; all easily "fixed".

I am keenly aware of the (DF) Schmitt's standing as one of the best MWDA tanks. While never wavering on my decision to retain the source material, the simple fact that the tank should be so much better literally robbed me of my sleep. Hence, inspired by the DF game piece, I included the TC variant at the 11th hour, thereby also addressing the most egregious design flaw of the original.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #8 on: 27 November 2013, 13:53:40 »
I always figured the Schmitt was intended as an export vehicle- sure, we build the Demolisher II, Fortune, etc. for the LCAF, but what do we sell the neighbors? What vehicles shall the vaunted Steiner merchant arm peddle to other nations to help rebuild our economy? Enter the Schmitt- heavily armed enough to make a tank unit commander drool, crappy enough that if those tanks turn around and come rolling back Steiner's way in a fight (see: FWL border), they're not too hard to kill.
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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #9 on: 27 November 2013, 16:24:39 »
Purposemade flaws?
Sounds like business as usual. 8)
I never actually thought about what the DI meant.
It's not like I couldn't figure it out, the thought never even occured to me that it's a short.
The amount of clusters probably make it a good air defense.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #10 on: 27 November 2013, 17:07:27 »
Great writeup on one of my favourite tanks!

The Dragons Fury Elite Schmitt was one nasty, nasty piece of work in the MWDA game (It was in one of the very first boosters I opened) and never once did me wrong. I'm glad to see that the CBT version has done just as well for me, laying down a wall of lead and death whenever I've given it a drive.

I wonder if the decision to add a TC variant was inspired by the "Improved Targeting" trait on the DF Elite version.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #11 on: 28 November 2013, 01:24:23 »
I wonder if the decision to add a TC variant was inspired by the "Improved Targeting" trait on the DF Elite version.

Yes. Yes, it was.

Hence, inspired by the DF game piece, I included the TC variant at the 11th hour, thereby also addressing the most egregious design flaw of the original.

O0

In fact, that 11th hour addition was the only post-editorial (but pre-release) change that I'm aware of in the whole 3145 project.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #12 on: 28 November 2013, 03:34:11 »
Perhaps this is mainly a matter of ignorance, but wouldn't this have been a good tank to put RAC/2s on instead of the heavier weapons? Then it could have had the better armor, and done a few other tings as well? I know one does up to 6x5 damage and the other only 6x2, but it does carry two of them, would have greater range, and could get similar ammo bins for less space for even greater savings.

Basically, is the RAC/2 so bad really? Cause almost nothing actually mounts it at the moment, and this looks like it would have been the perfect machine for it, what with the ADA aspect and really, really long multiple barreled cannons and all.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #13 on: 28 November 2013, 07:45:06 »
Yes. Yes, it was.

O0

In fact, that 11th hour addition was the only post-editorial (but pre-release) change that I'm aware of in the whole 3145 project.

Der me for not reading your above reply.

Regardless, I thoroughly approve of this variant. As my own tribute to the awesomeness of the DF elite tanks, I like to pair it with the M1A Marksman and make the two a sort of slowly advancing wall of inevitability. The two do seem to work well together and have never done me wrong. (Well, they did once, but that's another story...)
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #14 on: 28 November 2013, 21:07:01 »
Thank you jymset for DI Schmitt! O0
Deadborder, I know that combo of DI Schmitt + M1 Marksman too!   >:D

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #15 on: 30 June 2015, 17:44:32 »
One of the things about Alpha Strike is it brings a certain clarity about a viewed unit. Because it distils a unit down to very basic stats, you get a solid, consistent image of what that unit can do, and where it falls in the armor/speed/damage pattern.

The DI Schmitt Tank's flaws stand out HORRIFICALLY because of this. Its damage is obscenely high at S7/M6/S1; as Scotty likes to mention the borderline for 'good' damage is about 3 at any range, and anything above 5 is rare as an ER Large Laser during the Third Succession War.

However, that damage comes in such a slow, frail package that you may only get to shoot once, maybe twice, before it dies or is forced to withdraw. At A5/S4, it can take two or three good hits; the problem is that anything with this much firepower will draw a lot more than that. Compounding that is its paltry 6" speed, which will hardly propel it into range fast enough to be a serious threat.

Its primary use would be in an ambush situation, using double-blind rules. No one would like to turn a corner and find 7 points of damage in its face. Also, if using building rules, it helps mitigate the armor problem to hide it inside a garage.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #16 on: 30 June 2015, 18:24:07 »
For some comparisons: The DI Schmitt propels itself very nearly to matching a Timber Wolf A (7/7/2) in the damage block, but has two points less armor and a full 4" less MV and 1 point less TMM.  It is a Timber Wolf that cannot sustain being targeted like a Timber Wolf must.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #17 on: 30 June 2015, 20:15:41 »
For some comparisons: The DI Schmitt propels itself very nearly to matching a Timber Wolf A (7/7/2) in the damage block, but has two points less armor and a full 4" less MV and 1 point less TMM.  It is a Timber Wolf that cannot sustain being targeted like a Timber Wolf must.
I'd like to point out that the Timber Wolf is built using Clan Tech, the Schmitt isn't, be interesting to so what happens if you change that

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #18 on: 30 June 2015, 20:41:32 »
You end up with a tank that is not the DI Schmitt.  Sure, you can make the damage output truly obscene, or you can armor it to a heavy 'Mech's standards, but you're then dealing with what is fundamentally a different vehicle.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #19 on: 01 July 2015, 01:03:06 »
The DI Schmitt is very much a defensive weapon: not enough speed or armor to charge at a enemy force (unless their back was turned) but enough fire power to bore a hole through anything that crosses it's path. Just keep it parked behind some cover and wait for something to come around the corner.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #20 on: 01 July 2015, 04:05:37 »
Would the lr AS stats improve with RAC2s? And do quirks even translate? I guess not.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #21 on: 01 July 2015, 11:38:05 »
Would the lr AS stats improve with RAC2s? And do quirks even translate? I guess not.

Quirks are in the Alpha Strike Companion. Let me see...Anti-Aircraft Targeting...Trailer Hitch...yes, looks like we're good to go.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #22 on: 01 July 2015, 12:08:50 »
Quirks don't translate 1:1 to AS, and they're most certainly not a default part of any unit, even one that has them in standard BT.  Otherwise they'd come printed on the AS card somewhere.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #23 on: 01 July 2015, 12:23:18 »
Quirks don't translate 1:1 to AS, and they're most certainly not a default part of any unit, even one that has them in standard BT.  Otherwise they'd come printed on the AS card somewhere.

Of course they don't translate 1:1; little enough else does. And I imagine the main reasons they're not printed on the cards are (a) that just as in standard BT they're still an optional rule -- the number of units that even have "official" quirks is still pretty small compared to the entire list -- and (b) there's just plain only so much room on those cards, especially for entries that have no convenient shorthands.

If quirks ever grow popular enough to become "standard", then I expect Alpha Strike will eventually follow suit and update the cards to include them. Until then it's just up to the players.

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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #24 on: 01 July 2015, 12:42:56 »
Quirks don't translate 1:1 to AS, and they're most certainly not a default part of any unit, even one that has them in standard BT.  Otherwise they'd come printed on the AS card somewhere.

I imagine we'll see TW-scale sheets with quirks printed on them before we see AS cards with 'em. Since to my knowledge such sheets do not exist, I'd expect a wait before we see quirky cards.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #25 on: 01 July 2015, 13:05:55 »
I hope we get a Armor variant some day. If you rip out the bow mounted flamers you have enough free tonnage to mount  maximum efficient armor (if you also install Heavy FF).
« Last Edit: 01 July 2015, 13:08:37 by AldanFerrox »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #26 on: 01 July 2015, 13:23:05 »
A little more armor would be appreciated.  But, there comes a point where too much armor becomes a cost and BV sink.  The DI Schmitt is still a 3/5 wheeled chassis.  No amount of armor is going to save it from the inevitable.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #27 on: 01 July 2015, 13:33:57 »
A little more armor would be appreciated.  But, there comes a point where too much armor becomes a cost and BV sink.  The DI Schmitt is still a 3/5 wheeled chassis.  No amount of armor is going to save it from the inevitable.

Yes, it is sad but its true. The Armor variant I created had a BV of a little over 1800.

BTW, I also made a Speed variant (removes flamers and one of the Medium Lasers). The engine is upgraded so that the tank does 4/6 and the armour is upgraded to 13.5 tons of Heavy FF. The turret armor goes up to 50 points. This variant has a BV a bit over 1700.
« Last Edit: 01 July 2015, 13:46:24 by AldanFerrox »
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #28 on: 01 July 2015, 23:36:21 »
A little more armor would be appreciated.  But, there comes a point where too much armor becomes a cost and BV sink.  The DI Schmitt is still a 3/5 wheeled chassis.  No amount of armor is going to save it from the inevitable.

Agreed.  With a tank like the Schmitt what you really want is a few tons more armor and a few tons more ammo so you can really get some good use out of those autocannons, not to create some sort of semi-immortal pillbox.
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Re: Vehicle of the Week: DI Schmitt Tank
« Reply #29 on: 02 July 2015, 02:17:17 »
A little more armor would be appreciated.  But, there comes a point where too much armor becomes a cost and BV sink.  The DI Schmitt is still a 3/5 wheeled chassis.  No amount of armor is going to save it from the inevitable.
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