Author Topic: VotW: Plainsman  (Read 13563 times)

JadeHellbringer

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VotW: Plainsman
« on: 05 October 2014, 10:57:00 »


The original plan for this week was the Scorpion. I'll be up front and say this is a hasty backup plan. The newer versions of that vehicle rely on the minesweeping LRM as their reason to exist, and I need mor etime to experiment with that stuff before I can give a real analysis. So... we'll go here for now as our throwback vehicle, and back to work on requests over the next couple of weeks. Cool? (Keep them coming, btw!)

A fast hovercraft with stereo SRM-6 racks isn't anything particularly unusual in Battletech's annals. The Harasser and Pegasus have been doing this for a very long time after all, while the recent JES carrier is... interesting... so the Plainsman that we cover today isn't anything wildly unusual. It's also not anything to be scoffed at- there's a reason this is a common concept, after all. So what stands out about the Plainsman? Not a whole lot, really- and that's its own intriguing quality. Let's take a closer look.

One thing that stands out here on the Plainsman is money. No expense was spared to make sure the tank is as cheap as possible. (Eh? EH? See what I did there? Wokka wokka!) The vehicle is a bargain for what it does, but manages to be a serious threat regardless. This makes it attractive to mercenary units, who always appreciate a bargain- and being able to strike fast and hard, which the Plainsman specializes in. Wolfs Dragoons are responsible for this machine's design as part of their 4th SW rebuilding program, and it's not hard to see why they were happy with the results.

At 35 tons, the Plainsman is a decent-sized chunk of hovercraft, the same size as its Pegasus cousin and ten tons larger than the Harasser. (I'll be referencing both of those vehicles for comparison often, so if you need a better look at them check TRO:3039, while the Plainsman is found in '58.) Slow hovercraft are a waste of time, a lesson JES would learn many years later, so if you're going to compete, be able to pick up those skirts and MOVE. The Plainsman utilizes a 140-rated ICE engine to do just that, screaming across the field at a very respectable 9/14 speed. While the smaller Harasser edges it at 10/15, it does beat out the Pegasus' 8/12 curve- not by much, but sometimes that slight advantage is what it takes to win the fight. While a fusion engine would obviously make this engine smaller, with this being a cheap tank the ICE engine fits nicely here.

If the Plainsman has a flaw, it's armor- but it's not alone in that regard. It's not exactly fragile by quick-strike hover standards, to be fair- it's far tougher than the notoriously fragile Harasser, after all, but the Pegasus' loss of speed is made up for with far better protection. On the Plainsman, we find five tons of plating spread fairly evenly, giving us eighteen points on the front and turret, sixteen on the sides, and a pretty respectable twelve points on the rear- enough to take a few solid hits before forcing the vehicle to withdraw- and really, with speed like this, it won't take many of those hits anyway if you use it right.

Where the three hovercraft meet is in the turret- all three have the same main weaponry in their flat, wide turrets. This consists of two SRM-6 racks, in the Plainsman's case made by Harvester. Two tons of ammunition feed the launchers, giving it plenty of battlefield endurance. Where the Pegasus adds a fore-mounted laser, and the Harasser adds the crew's fervent prayers, the Plainsman adds a handy Harvester SRM-2 as well. One ton of ammo gives this launcher plenty of endurance as well. This also means the Plainsman has a neat skill- the ability to fire the six-racks with standard rounds, while the twin rack launches inferno or flechette ammunition for other roles. It doesn't look like much at a glance, but that twin rack really adds to this machine in ways it wouldn't on most vehicles. If all are using standard ammunition, fourteen missiles per turn mean a lot of chances to find weakened areas on a target, tank treads, and the like. A quick-striking Plainsman is a dire threat to enemy armor, and can make for a nightmare in rear areas against a foes' supply lines.

An upgraded model appeared in '58 Upgrades, a simple swap of the SRM-6 systems for Streak SRM-4s. Since an SRM-6 hits on average with four missiles, the change really is nearly cosmetic- better ammo efficiency balanced by the loss of alternate ammo types. It's quite useable, of course, so if you like the original, give it a shot. Not much really to say here about it that wasn't already said about the original, really.

A scout model replaces the fore-mounted SRM-2 and its ammo with a Beagle probe, making for a fast, heavily armed scout tank. The spare half-ton remaining went into extra armor split across the vehicle, but again this isn't really a huge change to the original- probably more handy for many situations, but you get the basic idea.

Now, '85 gave us a version that makes some changes, to say the least. Intended for amphibious warfare and patrolling high-tide regions (because the Battletech universe apparently considers 'boats' to be lostech), this version keeps the same movement profile, but switches to a fuel cell engine. The weight saved goes into a floatation hull and environmental sealing (one assumes this means hull plating and barf buckets), making for a hovercraft that can take a beating from King Neptune in case you... need... that... Look I really don't know what this is intended to do. It isn't useless, but I can't fathom why I'd get these as opposed to an actual, you know, boat, or an aircraft. Replacing the SRM-2 with a torpedo system reinforces the "I'm on a boat!" mentality of this oddball.

Using a Plainsman is simple- keep moving, throw SRMs at anything that moves, and be ready to run when things get heavy. It's not a brawler- it's a vulture, great for zipping in at targets of opportunity like transport vehicles and wounded Battlemechs, but not really able to get in a tussle with the frontline units. By the same measure, if you fight Plainsmen, expect them to be a pain to hit- in the later eras pulse lasers are great for telling them where to stuff it, but in '39 you may simply have to get lucky shots- or just throw enough fire at them that something is BOUND to get through.

Thanks for joining me here for this! Next week I'm off (I'm out of town at a wedding), so I'll be back in two weeks with a 3145 unit by request!
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Moonsword

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #1 on: 05 October 2014, 11:23:44 »
I suppose that means I'll have to do something for next week, then.

I've noted the Harasser's lousy armor before.  The Plainsman is quite a ways improved on that, coming within 75% of the Harasser's total armor on individual facings.

The amphibious version actually strikes me as a decent idea.  Yes, it looks screwy as hell, until you consider that an amphibious Plainsman is still very useful in other environments.  The torpedoes are useless, sure, but the rest of it?  Great.  It's a reasonable investment for a cash-strapped militia with a lot of coastal territory that also needs to worry about deploying inland, away from the water.  Boats can't do that.  As for aircraft idea... maybe they're paid for out of a different budget, so they have to spend the ground vehicle budget on, well, ground vehicles?

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #2 on: 05 October 2014, 12:15:20 »
I used the sealed plainsman once as a part of some amphibian assault.

I had a mixed century of 2 Scorpions and 1 Goliath Battlemech plus two of those Plainsman attack a base located on an island (second century involved were VTOLs and infantry). My 4 legged 'Mechs advanced submerged ( it is great that they can go hull down in shallow water easily) while the Hovertanks pickd apart the defender's lone Monitor vessel.
Their torpedos also crippled a submerged Wasp (it did jump into lv 2 water to close in with the Goliath which I used as long range support, standing in a lv 1 water hex).

I was rather pleased with their performance even if I lost the game in the end.

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #3 on: 05 October 2014, 14:13:02 »
hovercraft can be used over water very easily.. but if they are immobilized, they're destroyed, IIRC. i've not read up on amphibious hulls, but i would assume they can enter water safely? then the amphibious version could be used on the top of large bodies of water much more safely, since if immobilized (which happens a lot for hover's) it will still float and survive..

boats certainly weould be an option for aquatic patrols/fighting.. but boats can't go ashore, which limits their mobility somewhat. the amphibious plainsman can pursue a target across land and sea.
« Last Edit: 05 October 2014, 14:15:53 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #4 on: 05 October 2014, 14:38:51 »
i can understand why the '85 model got designed, game systems wise. as much as i'd love to get a call to the order of "hey, can you write us up a book's worth of boats" (like, well, anyone that might read this) boats operate in terrain that is pretty much rarely seen in the game, making them far too much of a niche design to put a lot of energy on.

this fills part of that niche while still being functional on most tabletops, making it a much better use of pagespace.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #5 on: 05 October 2014, 14:44:15 »
i can understand why the '85 model got designed, game systems wise. as much as i'd love to get a call to the order of "hey, can you write us up a book's worth of boats" (like, well, anyone that might read this) boats operate in terrain that is pretty much rarely seen in the game, making them far too much of a niche design to put a lot of energy on.

this fills part of that niche while still being functional on most tabletops, making it a much better use of pagespace.

Doesn't that just mean we need more water maps? :D

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #6 on: 05 October 2014, 15:55:32 »
As an interesting side note, the Plainsman is able to turn a hex of light woods into rough in one turn.  Load Fragmentation ammo into one of the SRM 6 bins, and fire both SRM 6s and the SRM 2 at the woods you want gone.  24*2+4 is enough damage to reduce any light woods hex to rough terrain.  Very useful to have one at the head of a strike group when going through moderately forested terrain, and it can still throw down 14 normal SRM shots if needed.  It goes without saying that any unarmored infantry unfortunate enough to run into it will regret getting out of bed that morning. 

JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #7 on: 05 October 2014, 15:57:11 »
Doesn't that just mean we need more water maps? :D

Turn over any old Battletech map.

Done.  ;D
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #8 on: 05 October 2014, 17:16:01 »
Back when I was a wee lad, I had access to TRO:3026 and the 4th edition box. I got it in my head to stick a Monitor into the pond in the middle of the basic BT map.  :D

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #9 on: 05 October 2014, 17:59:22 »
Back when I was a wee lad, I had access to TRO:3026 and the 4th edition box. I got it in my head to stick a Monitor into the pond in the middle of the basic BT map.  :D

You're not alone... although in my case it was a Neptune, and it was a spectacularly bad (but funny) idea. (It was lost due to a DFA attack by an Assassin)
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #10 on: 05 October 2014, 18:24:49 »
Re the Plainsman (Sealed), I can see a good use for as a littoral combatant, able to pursue and attack a target no matter where it goes, or - if the foe starts to get the better of you - retreat to where it maybe can't follow. Of course, the same can be said of any normal hovercraft (or WIGE or VTOL, for that matter), but thanks to the Sealed's amphibious hull it can also go covert or extend its loiter time while over water by switching off its engine and just floating quietly. I guess the environmental sealing might be useful if you find yourself in heavy seas, but it would also help on worlds with a hostile atmosphere.

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #11 on: 05 October 2014, 18:27:11 »
It's interesting that the Dragoons contracted out to a Taurian company for the Plainsman rather than having Blackwell whip it up, or at least someone closer to Outreach. It gives the Concordat access to a nice vehicle that really fits in with the rest of their domestically produced armor (light, cheap, and quick).

With that in mind, I kinda wish we'd seen a rocket carrying variant. The fragile motive system of hovertanks doesn't really lend itself to lingering, and something like 120 rockets is an excellent boom to follow up with zoom.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #12 on: 05 October 2014, 19:16:48 »
It's interesting that the Dragoons contracted out to a Taurian company for the Plainsman rather than having Blackwell whip it up, or at least someone closer to Outreach. It gives the Concordat access to a nice vehicle that really fits in with the rest of their domestically produced armor (light, cheap, and quick).

With that in mind, I kinda wish we'd seen a rocket carrying variant. The fragile motive system of hovertanks doesn't really lend itself to lingering, and something like 120 rockets is an excellent boom to follow up with zoom.

I could see that. Maybe drop the twin rack and one of the sixers for RL10s, keep the other SRM-6 and a ton of ammo for other work?
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #13 on: 05 October 2014, 19:47:41 »
I could see that. Maybe drop the twin rack and one of the sixers for RL10s, keep the other SRM-6 and a ton of ammo for other work?

Maybe, though you might run into item slot problems with tens. I'm more of an all or nothing kind of guy, so I'd probably pull both 6 packs and their ammo out for eight 15 racks and either keep the 2 or replace it with a pair of rear mounted vehicle flamers to generate flaming cover and look awesome as you leave.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #14 on: 05 October 2014, 22:45:09 »
Oooooh, dual rear-mounted flamers is ALWAYS a classy way to leave the battlefield. Bonus if you drop sensor pods that have speakers playing "Highway to Hell" as you leave too.  ^-^

Nah, the rocket idea also fits the Plainsman's simple, cost-effective setup... MRMs kind of suck as weapons, but they'd fit the concept as well.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #15 on: 05 October 2014, 23:02:06 »
I suppose that means I'll have to do something for next week, then.

I've noted the Harasser's lousy armor before.  The Plainsman is quite a ways improved on that, coming within 75% of the Harasser's total armor on individual facings.

The amphibious version actually strikes me as a decent idea.  Yes, it looks screwy as hell, until you consider that an amphibious Plainsman is still very useful in other environments.  The torpedoes are useless, sure, but the rest of it?  Great.  It's a reasonable investment for a cash-strapped militia with a lot of coastal territory that also needs to worry about deploying inland, away from the water.  Boats can't do that.  As for aircraft idea... maybe they're paid for out of a different budget, so they have to spend the ground vehicle budget on, well, ground vehicles?

I think an interesting question about the amphibious version is what was going through the designers head. The floatation hull is useful, it means the unit won't be lost if it loses all it's MP, but what does the enviro sealing help in terms of amphibious operations?

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #16 on: 06 October 2014, 00:01:01 »
I think an interesting question about the amphibious version is what was going through the designers head. The floatation hull is useful, it means the unit won't be lost if it loses all it's MP, but what does the enviro sealing help in terms of amphibious operations?

Nuclear/Biological/Chemical environment. Most of these sealed tank variants appeared during the Jihad.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #17 on: 06 October 2014, 08:36:14 »
... but I can't fathom why I'd get these as opposed to an actual, you know, boat, or an aircraft...

Because aircraft pilots make terrible pirates!
« Last Edit: 06 October 2014, 08:50:01 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #18 on: 06 October 2014, 09:01:09 »
Now, '85 gave us a version that makes some changes, to say the least. Intended for amphibious warfare and patrolling high-tide regions (because the Battletech universe apparently considers 'boats' to be lostech), this version keeps the same movement profile, but switches to a fuel cell engine. The weight saved goes into a floatation hull and environmental sealing (one assumes this means hull plating and barf buckets), making for a hovercraft that can take a beating from King Neptune in case you... need... that... Look I really don't know what this is intended to do. It isn't useless, but I can't fathom why I'd get these as opposed to an actual, you know, boat, or an aircraft. Replacing the SRM-2 with a torpedo system reinforces the "I'm on a boat!" mentality of this oddball.

Maybe it's a logistical thing. Since there are already a lot of Plainsman Hovercraft in service, it might be cheaper to produce an amphibious hovercraft for militia units. Or maybe Kraken Unleashed requested the tank. Besides the actual procurement costs, your militia unit can also avoid the cost of retraining the crews for a new boat (or other combat unit) by using a Plainsman variant.

Or maybe TPTB wanted to demonstrate the fun stuff you can find in Tactical Operations. ;)
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #19 on: 06 October 2014, 09:41:31 »
I think an interesting question about the amphibious version is what was going through the designers head. The floatation hull is useful, it means the unit won't be lost if it loses all it's MP, but what does the enviro sealing help in terms of amphibious operations?

While strictly an in-universe consideration, a hovercraft intended for oceanic use will likely see itself swamped by large waves on a notable basis. The flotation hull lets it survive when the waves simply spill out the air cushion, and the environmental sealing lets it do the same when waves actually submerge it for a moment or three. In such situations, it can wait until the waves pass, then restart the fans and continue on its way.

Things that are reflected in game rules: Immunity to chemical weapons and radiation protection makes this more survivable on the NBC battlefields that were moer common during the Jihad. Since militias can sometimes be called upon to quell riots, a sealed Plainsman can deploy tear gas, and not worry about avoid the gas clouds but maneuver however it wants. It is also immune to said gas, in case the rioters/dissidents/Capellan citizens obtain tear gas of their own.

While it cannot operate in a true vacuum, a sealed Plainsman can still operate on worlds with toxic atmospheres, making it a valuable asset on such worlds, and a nasty surprise for raiders that might be expecting 'mech-only defenders.

(Probably for the best that it can't work in a vacuum: A fast SRM boat going after units that have to worry about hull breaches with every hit? It'd be murder, plain and simple! :o)
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #20 on: 06 October 2014, 10:33:20 »
Can the the torpedos be fired from the Plainsman against units under water?   Or does it have have zero MP and floating in the water to fire at them?

also, can it act like a PT Boat of World War II vintage?  Basically if their a hull in the water, can SRTs or even LRTs if their mounted be used against surface water craft?
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #21 on: 06 October 2014, 10:45:58 »
Pretty sure the answer to both questions is yes, but you might want to ask on the Rules forum to make sure.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #22 on: 07 October 2014, 17:01:38 »
I would just like a merc post-Jihad update- say a refit kit.  Give it a FCE to move faster and upgrade the armor to HFF.  Pulling the SRM2 for RLs is also an interesting twist as someone mentioned.

As stated, using it just like the harasser generally works.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #23 on: 08 October 2014, 00:01:58 »
I think an interesting question about the amphibious version is what was going through the designers head. The floatation hull is useful, it means the unit won't be lost if it loses all it's MP, but what does the enviro sealing help in terms of amphibious operations?

Hi, I'm not the designer, I am the developer for 3085 so I can answer this question.

The Plainsman (Sealed) came directly from the fan fiction written for the Battle Corps Legion. It specifically was from the Alula Australis story line which was at the start of the Jihad and launched the Legion into their fight against the WoB.

Alula Australis is an interesting world. A lot of water and strange micro-air gusts that make conventional aircraft a questionable prospect.

The big question seems to be around why environmental sealing. The answer is very simple. Submarines. The Plainsmen (Sealed) can be loaded in a submarine vehicle bay and launched from under water. Although in the BCL story it was a submerged DropShip (yes filled 90% with water so it would sink) that did the deployment.

Credit to the Plainsman (Sealed) goes 100% to our very own Demo Agent, Medron Pryde.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #24 on: 08 October 2014, 06:36:35 »
The big question seems to be around why environmental sealing. The answer is very simple. Submarines. The Plainsmen (Sealed) can be loaded in a submarine vehicle bay and launched from under water. Although in the BCL story it was a submerged DropShip (yes filled 90% with water so it would sink) that did the deployment.
That's absolutely ingenious. Totally stealing that idea.
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #25 on: 08 October 2014, 06:43:07 »
That's awesome!  Plainsman (Sealed) launching from underwater, I didn't think it was possible to do that. 

Now to come up for some reason to purchase a slightly used Aqueduct Class DropShip and add submarine bay for certain martime mercenary unit.  [brew]

Thanks for giving us some insight, Mr. Welshman!
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #26 on: 08 October 2014, 06:58:00 »
It's like a bubble in a hot tub, only it lingers over the water's surface, and it buuurrrns... >:D

Is this story available to people?
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #27 on: 08 October 2014, 16:27:11 »
I honestly don't know if I could make the stories available or not.  They are posted on the battle corps forums for subscribers so I don't know if we are allowed to post them elsewhere...

I designed it as a Taurian refit of the design since in canon there are some Taurian worlds with lots and LOTS of water that have actual naval forces.  This was designed to be used on those worlds.

As Alula Australis had lots of water as I remember, the Plainsmen used there as part of the militia came from that source.

Also as noted above by others, I used the sealed hull to allow them to go under water for short times, and the flotation hull was to allow them to sit on the surface of the water.  In story they had retractable fins that cut into the water to improve mobility and such.  And in story I had them operating in VERY rough seas where waves were literally swamping them.  They would go under water, cutting THROUGH some of the waves, and come back out the other side with water streaming off their fenders, turret still spinning and looking for enemies.

In story, the torpedoes were fired like PT boats of world war II.  Fired in air, wait to drop into the water, and then engage engines to seek their target.  I have no idea if the rules allow this or not, but I would see no reason why it couldn't work in game.  I actually had one story where they were fired during normal ground action.  In the middle of the story, here were two torpedoes bouncing and spinning and breaking apart as they skipped down the street.  One of them found a rather flammable tank of gas or something and KABOOOOOOMMMMMM.

You might gather that the people who "flew" that particular hovercraft were kinda special.  Some might call them crazy.  ;)

And as Welshman noted, they were deployed as part of a secret plan.  Or rather picked UP by said secret plan.  The BCL had a Hamilcar class DropShip that was supposed to be destroyed.  So they made certain it dropped right off everybody's radar...literally.  Into the ocean.  Failed engine on liftoff was the story.  It had been specially sealed and modified before hand though so it could operate underwater as a submarine.  Not fast.  Not well.  Probably leaky us all hell.  I never actually wrote about that side of it....but I imagine they had to spend a lot of time pumping water out of that particular little bugger.

Anyways, the Plainsmen were carried in the AeroSpace bays and launched when the ship found a target.  Underwater.  Once they left the "Launch bay" and entered open water, they went UP until they found the surface.  And...target is under attack with no warning.  Then the ship would very slowly come to the surface in the distance while the two hovercraft were raising merry hell and start sniping with gauss slugs and lasers.  I had a lot of fun with those little guys.  ;)

In short, the sealed Plainsman was devised by total Rule of Cool.  I had this vision in my head of a hovercraft operating on, and sometimes UNDER, high seas in a PT boat style of deployment.  Complete with the fact that everybody else considered their crews crazy as all getout to be taking these tiny little things into "naval" engagements.  That it could still operate well above ground was secondary to me.  It was designed as a fast naval ship, and all thoughts towards it were to making it shiplike.  Just...on a cushion of air...you know...which in really rough seas ended up being a lot less air and a lot more lift fans hitting water to keep the craft from going UNDER...or bringing it back up when it DID go under...

Totally niche and crazy design.  But the sealed hull made it good against chemical weapons in the Jihad, and it got a whole new mission in that war.  Also, the flotation hull means that instead of a dead vehicle when the engine gets hit over water, you have a hovercraft floating on the water like a fun little bobbing turret of twin SRM goodness....

So is it actually good for something?  Yes.  Amazingly.  But it was designed for nothing but fun and the chance to get to write some cool stories.  The fact that it actually got accepted and printed as an official BTech design was just icing on the awesome cake.

:)
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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #28 on: 08 October 2014, 20:25:31 »
Was one of the more enjoyable sub-story lines in the Battle Corps Legion.

The Legion archives are currently for BC subscribers only. That may change some day in the future. You can thank the story lines there for several innovative designs and ideas that leaked into the main stream game line as a result.

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Re: VotW: Plainsman
« Reply #29 on: 09 October 2014, 08:32:27 »
And as Welshman noted, they were deployed as part of a secret plan.  Or rather picked UP by said secret plan.  The BCL had a Hamilcar class DropShip that was supposed to be destroyed.  So they made certain it dropped right off everybody's radar...literally.  Into the ocean.  Failed engine on liftoff was the story.  It had been specially sealed and modified before hand though so it could operate underwater as a submarine.  Not fast.  Not well. Probably leaky us all hell.  I never actually wrote about that side of it....but I imagine they had to spend a lot of time pumping water out of that particular little bugger.
Given that it was a DropShip, I'd really hope it wasn't leaky! Be an awfully short deployment if the crew suffocated in the vacuum of space. ;)
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