Point Defense in BattleForce Space

[Medron Pryde]

How do you use Point Defense in the system?

It is supposed to work against both standard LRMs and capital missiles, but there are not stats for LRM damage on the cards we can get from Catalyst.  Granted, my cards DO have that, but theirs do not.  ;)

I'm just wondering how you guys use Point Defense in the game.

[nckestrel]

SO p359 "Elements other than aerospace and infantry may use...LRMs".  Dropships and Warships are aerospace units, and so don't get separate LRM values.
That does mean Point Defense won't work against aerospace LRMs in BF.  Similar to how AMS won't work against streak SRMs in BattleForce (Streak SRMs are not separated out in to SRM or LRM, and are not part of IF.).

[Alexander Knight]

That does mean Point Defense won't work against aerospace LRMs in BF.  Similar to how AMS won't work against streak SRMs in BattleForce (Streak SRMs are not separated out in to SRM or LRM, and are not part of IF.).

Same thing with Artemis'd SRMs or MRMs of any stripe.

[AnubisZombie]

you can't be serious that's ridiculous.

A missile is a missile is a missile.

Anybody got a page number for something so ridiculous?

[nckestrel]

I gave you a page number.  SO p359.
And in BattleForce, by default, everything is just a number.  Something isn't designated as anything unless it specifically says otherwise.  Short range damage is a 1 or 2 or 3.  it's not a laser, ppc, or missile by default.
You did catch we were talking about BattleForce, quiaff?

[AnubisZombie]

Oops missed that. thanx. I get what you're sayin now, they don't differentiate damage type, forgot that. I never played BF just read the rules in hopes of one day playing.

The way this thread reads is that it works against regular SRm and LRM but nothing else. Now what you're saying is it doesn't even stop them?

[Medron Pryde]

AMS on the ground works against anything with SRM, LRM, or IF damage types.  It never works against streak SRMs because they are not given an SRM damage value and are not IF capable.  ;)

Now, large ships are not given different damage codes for their weapons.

ASFs can be, and my cards do have them, but I've noticed that the official ones do not.  I do not know if that is an error or if it is on purpose.

[nckestrel]

AMS on the ground works against anything with SRM, LRM, or IF damage types.  It never works against streak SRMs because they are not given an SRM damage value and are not IF capable.  ;)

Now, large ships are not given different damage codes for their weapons.

ASFs can be, and my cards do have them, but I've noticed that the official ones do not.  I do not know if that is an error or if it is on purpose.

SO p359 "Elements other than aerospace and infantry may use...LRMs".
ASF are aerospace and therefore are not elements "other than aerospace" and so do not get AC, LRM, SRM separated out.

[Alexander Knight]

The way this thread reads is that it works against regular SRm and LRM but nothing else. Now what you're saying is it doesn't even stop them?

On the ground, AMS works against non-Artemis, non-Streak LRMs and SRMs, provided the attacking unit has enough of either to qualify for the LRM, SRM, or IF special abilities.

In space, AMS works against capital missiles.

[Medron Pryde]

Yes, but in normal AeroTech, AMS and other Point Defense weapons work against incoming normal missiles as well, so why neuter that ability and make Point Defense so much less useful in BattleForce?

[Alexander Knight]

Yes, but in normal AeroTech, AMS and other Point Defense weapons work against incoming normal missiles as well, so why neuter that ability and make Point Defense so much less useful in BattleForce?

Abstraction.  The same reason an IS-tech 'Mech with XL and CASE can survive an ammo explosion in BattleForce.

[Medron Pryde]

While they technically can, according to the rules, it is something that almost never happens in practice.

A 50 tonner with an XL engine has two internals, so if you get hit internal for one point, and take an ammo hit, with CASE you take 1 more internal hit which destroys you.

Above 50 tons, you have 3 internals with an XL up to 75 tons, with 80 tons and up having 4 internals.

It is mathematically possible for them to survive if they take ONE internal hit and then take an ammo hit.  Mathematically.  However, in all the games I have played in BattleForce for the last year, I have never seen it happen.  Usually, we salvo fire on one target to KILL IT NOW and the crits often don't even count anymore because the object of our affection is DEAD RIGHT NOW.  ;)  And I have yet to see an assault or heavy 'Mech take that ONE and ONLY hit to the inside and have it be an ammo explosion and have the 'Mech survive.

[sillybrit]

Yes, but in normal AeroTech, AMS and other Point Defense weapons work against incoming normal missiles as well, so why neuter that ability and make Point Defense so much less useful in BattleForce?

You're not really neutering much ability. The ability in Total War games to downgrade standard scale missile fire is a nice bonus, but the main bread and butter of point defense is to protect against capital scale missiles. In my experience, it's typically not been cost effective to allocate heat & ammo to defend against SRMs & LRMs for the sakes of a small reduction in damage taken, particularly when I have incoming capital and sub-capital missiles to deal with.

Yes, it's an inconsistency between the two scales, but not really worth worrying about for most designs and scenarios.

[Medron Pryde]

Except when you are playing in the 3020s and there ARE no cap missiles to fight against.  Then all of the fighters and DropShips with Point Defense have nothing to do with those Point Defense networks...