Author Topic: (Good) 'Mechs you wish your house didn't build. (Read 44998 times)

3rdCrucisLancers · « **on:** 21 November 2011, 22:45:37 »

So, every faction has a few 'mechs that while otherwise solid, don't quite seem to fit in with everything else they build. Sure, you may use them, but you die a little inside when you do. For me, it's the Sunder and the Black Hawk-KU. Sure, they're both great 'mechs, and they both fit well into the doctrinaire AFFS approach to battle: fast assaults, and highly mobile heavy cavalry.

But at the same time: it would be hard to find two 'mechs so egregiously Kuritan as these. Heck, the Black Hawk-KU even has it right there in the name! It kind of kills the thrill of the whole "ancient enemies striding into battle" schtick when your enemies are using the exact same guys as you are. You may call it Battletech. I call it communism.

So. What 'mechs built by your faction would you rather it didn't? Show your work.

Kojak · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 November 2011, 23:17:41 »

Well, up until Quentin was leveled and then taken by the Republic, I'd say the MAD-5D Marauder for the DCMS. It fills the role of heavy line trooper 'Mech quite well for games set in the '50s and '60s, but it's just so...Davion. Ugh.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 November 2011, 23:21:32 »

There's nothing wrong with the Cobra. It's just so meh, though. It's kind of a product of TPTB pretending the Unseen didn't exist for a while, though, cause medium fire support is covered quite nicely by the Griffin.

Lore · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 November 2011, 23:46:45 »

I don't recall having much luck with the Cobra. But I hold that up as an example of my lousy gameplay style and being unable to properly use it on the tabletop... rather than through any fault of the 'Mech's design.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 November 2011, 00:15:28 »

Eh, it's a missile boat. Odds are you're not gonna have a mess of success with it on its own, particularly in a early 60's LCAF formation that doesn't get special LRM ammo yet.

Hptm. Streiger · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 November 2011, 02:25:34 »

I'm not so happy with Thunder Hawk and Gunslinger both are good mechs with the best weapon is forces can use.

Most other 3/5 LAF Assault Mechs are build to annihilate any enemy force at close range, while long range weapon is mostly for slightly more mobile line units (like the Zeus, Banshee or Caesar, War Dog)

To be true the Falconer (the best IS Heavy Mech) is a problem too - when i could have a Wolfhound with PPC and a Hollander both with JJs i would use them instead of a single Falconer but that is personal taste.

black magic battalion · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 November 2011, 02:42:30 »

the 3025 model Phoenix Hawk-K and Wolverine-K
they are both solid Mechs that fit in with House Kurita's tactics but taking the jump jests of those Mechs is Just plain wrong

Neufeld · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 November 2011, 03:24:44 »

Well, what first comes to my mind is that the Lyrans have too many resurrected Star League designs. It takes away faction flavor. There is no specific design that I especially wants gone, but if I had to pick something to throw under the bus Night Hawk, Lynx and Cestus seems to be good candidates. Those walking eggs does not really fit Lyran aesthetics.

StCptMara · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 November 2011, 04:27:31 »

The Crimson Langur
Wasteful XL engine, and a fairly large one at that. Good 'Mech, just....so expensive!

The Stooping Hawk, despite having expensive configurations, is actually a much cheaper to build
chassis, despite the extravagant use of Ferro-Fibrous armour. Admittedly, it is its canon configurations
that often make me wince at using the Stooping Hawk..

Ferrosol · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 November 2011, 05:42:02 »

The Phoenix Hawk 7K. I mean its a fantastic mech but is just not a Marik design. As much as I love its jumpy heavy scout/harasser/C3 point man, It just does not fit in a classic Marik force. The mariks do not really go in for C3 they don't use Snubbies much and I can't think of another marik mech that uses IJJ.

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 November 2011, 06:50:56 »

The Garm. Everytime i see one of those in an AFFS force, it just looks to be so wrong. An LBX-5 just isn't Davion enough. It must either be an LBX-10 or an RAC.

The Enforcer III, too. Victor screwed a good design up.

Belisarius · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 November 2011, 08:19:08 »

Truthfully, for me, it's all the assaults that FS gained over the course of the Clan Invasion and FCCW period. Templar, Sagittaire, Emperor, Gunslinger, Salamander, Sunder, Warlord, and the Devastator. I mean, how many other factions have that array of assaults? The LC should be the ones fixated with size. It took until after the FCCW for FS identity of relying on Enforcers, Centurions, and Valkyries to really start shining through. Partially that may just be due to the publicity of the super-friends eclipsing the bulk of the combat, but seeing so many assaults on the Davion roster just doesn't jive with the feel I developed for them from the 3025 era.

Siberian-troll · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 November 2011, 08:46:20 »

Wolf trap. If we should wear a Davionista's second hand, we'd better copy a Enforcer/Enfield, then plaid old Centurion. I not sure, why 45-ton Dragon should be good for DCMS at all.

StCptMara · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 November 2011, 09:14:08 »

*blushes embarassedly* OOp.s..Just realized this was in the Successor States section, not General Discussion(teach me not to take note
of location when just skimming over all the unread posts)

For my Successor State(Liao):
Honestly, as much as I like it, I do feel a bit dirty using the Thunder. It just seems so Davion a design. One of the best brawlers of its
time, but...it just does not feel Liao(no missiles! No advanced electronics!) Its cousin, the Jingau, also has a Davion Feel to it..but at least
it is a Stand-off 'mech which is where I always feel Liao belong.

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 November 2011, 09:47:19 »

Quote from: Belisarius on 22 November 2011, 08:19:08

Truthfully, for me, it's all the assaults that FS gained over the course of the Clan Invasion and FCCW period. Templar, Sagittaire, Emperor, Gunslinger, Salamander, Sunder, Warlord, and the Devastator. I mean, how many other factions have that array of assaults? The LC should be the ones fixated with size. It took until after the FCCW for FS identity of relying on Enforcers, Centurions, and Valkyries to really start shining through. Partially that may just be due to the publicity of the super-friends eclipsing the bulk of the combat, but seeing so many assaults on the Davion roster just doesn't jive with the feel I developed for them from the 3025 era.

The FS has always had an "anything goes" identity. Besides, the Salamander, Gunslinger and Sunder have never been produced within the Suns and have never been Davion icons. The Templar is more of an oversized heavy cavalry 'Mech. The Sagittaire fits well with our pulse boats. The Emperor, although would fit the OP, i think has the excuse of twin LBX-10s. The Suns were the ones who discovered the Devastator anyway, so if its not Davion, it wont belong anywhere. The Warlord is too optimized, but the BattleMaster was Hanse's personal ride, so YMMV.

Neufeld · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 November 2011, 09:55:47 »

Quote from: StCptMara on 22 November 2011, 09:14:08

For my Successor State(Liao):
Honestly, as much as I like it, I do feel a bit dirty using the Thunder. It just seems so Davion a design. One of the best brawlers of its
time, but...it just does not feel Liao(no missiles! No advanced electronics!) Its cousin, the Jingau, also has a Davion Feel to it..but at least
it is a Stand-off 'mech which is where I always feel Liao belong.

Strange, my impression of Liao preferences is a bit different, considering Lao Hu, Thunder, Victor and Yu Huang there seems to be some serious liking of the 20 class autocannons. I would say that Capellans comes second just after Lyrans in AC/20 use.

Siberian-troll · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 November 2011, 10:10:21 »

Quote from: StCptMara on 22 November 2011, 09:14:08

*blushes embarassedly* OOp.s..Just realized this was in the Successor States section, not General Discussion(teach me not to take note
of location when just skimming over all the unread posts)

For my Successor State(Liao):
Honestly, as much as I like it, I do feel a bit dirty using the Thunder. It just seems so Davion a design. One of the best brawlers of its
time, but...it just does not feel Liao(no missiles! No advanced electronics!) Its cousin, the Jingau, also has a Davion Feel to it..but at least
it is a Stand-off 'mech which is where I always feel Liao belong.

Hey, Thunder it's the big Urbanmech with token Ceres Jaguar LRM-5 to boot - and it's surely Liao thing! ;)

JPArbiter · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 November 2011, 10:32:20 »

The Salamander, Falconer, and Rakshaska. The Lyran Commonwealth shoukd ahve been where the FWL is now, relying on continously updating succession war era mechs and MAKING them work.

Granted there is also the sheer brilliance of the Hauptmann, Cobra, Blitzkreig, Battle Hawk and Dart. I can not complain about those

Klep · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 November 2011, 11:16:55 »

Quote from: StCptMara on 22 November 2011, 09:14:08

Its cousin, the Jingau, also has a Davion Feel to it..but at least
it is a Stand-off 'mech which is where I always feel Liao belong.

I have good news and bad news. The good news is you probably won't have to worry about the Jinggau for too much longer. The bad news is that it's because we take Victoria. }:)

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 November 2011, 11:21:14 »

Quote from: Klep on 22 November 2011, 11:16:55

I have good news and bad news. The good news is you probably won't have to worry about the Jinggau for too much longer. The bad news is that it's because we take Victoria. }:)

Hello, Dola! Can we retool that line to produce the Valiant Hot Knife O0

Cowdragon · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 November 2011, 11:32:27 »

Viking. Seriously one of the best missile boats around. But c'mon! It's made for the FRR for crying out loud. It's named after VIKINGZUH! Give it an axe. Some speed. Someone dropped the the human head being used for a children's plaything. Someone dropped it big time. Sad face :(

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 November 2011, 11:38:57 »

Quote from: ArkRoyalRavager on 22 November 2011, 06:50:56

The Garm. Everytime i see one of those in an AFFS force, it just looks to be so wrong. An LBX-5 just isn't Davion enough. It must either be an LBX-10 or an RAC.

The Enforcer III, too. Victor screwed a good design up.

Didn't you guys develop the first IS LB-5X?

foxbat · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 November 2011, 12:34:49 »

Quote from: StCptMara on 22 November 2011, 09:14:08

For my Successor State(Liao):
Honestly, as much as I like it, I do feel a bit dirty using the Thunder. It just seems so Davion a design. One of the best brawlers of its
time, but...it just does not feel Liao(no missiles! No advanced electronics!)

You still have that LRM 5 to spray the battlefield with Thunder LRMs however ;D

sillybrit · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 November 2011, 12:46:07 »

Quote from: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 22 November 2011, 11:38:57

Didn't you guys develop the first IS LB-5X?

Indeed they did, and they also developed the -2X and -20X. The reintroduction of the -10X is from the FedCom days, but given the track record, and going by Merc Supp II, that was a Suns baby as well.

They only get a small slice of the UAC pie though, with the /5, the other three are courtesy of the League and Lyrans, but really there's not much that mounts an AC that can't make a Davion man flex and sniff his armpits with pride.

I wouldn't select the Garm for the purposes of the Suns getting rid of good 'Mechs, I'd give that honor to the Templar. I know Sandoval & co did an end around on the AFFS procurement chain, but a homegrown FedSuns OmniMech design is still somewhat odd.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 November 2011, 13:30:54 »

Quote from: sillybrit on 22 November 2011, 12:46:07

Indeed they did, and they also developed the -2X and -20X. The reintroduction of the -10X is from the FedCom days, but given the track record, and going by Merc Supp II, that was a Suns baby as well.

They only get a small slice of the UAC pie though, with the /5, the other three are courtesy of the League and Lyrans, but really there's not much that mounts an AC that can't make a Davion man flex and sniff his armpits with pride.

I wouldn't select the Garm for the purposes of the Suns getting rid of good 'Mechs, I'd give that honor to the Templar. I know Sandoval & co did an end around on the AFFS procurement chain, but a homegrown FedSuns OmniMech design is still somewhat odd.

You guys didn't develop the LB-20X. The Defiance Disintegrator was the first, according to TRO:3060, followed by the Cappies.

Saint · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 November 2011, 13:43:51 »

Dracs: Having Jagermech and Victors, just never felt right.
Lyrans: Valks, and Stilleto.
Feddies: Emperor,Avatar, Sunder, Blackhawk KU. I want my Argus and Thanatos omni's. Also the Toro.
Mariks: Any thing with a hatchet.
Cappies: Lao Hu and Thunder (to FS). All the shared designs with the TC and MoC. It just feels off.
TC: Valks, just say no my friends.
MoC:Koschei, to blah

Colt Ward · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 November 2011, 14:02:25 »

How does the Lao Hu not fight the Cappies? Besides the obligatory Chinese name.

Lord Cameron · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 November 2011, 14:21:04 »

Quote from: Saint on 22 November 2011, 13:43:51

Mariks: Any thing with a hatchet.

Hey I like the Buccaneer!

And the only FWL factory that makes it is gonzo anyways.... ???

Rorke · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 November 2011, 14:32:33 »

I'd definitely agree with us making the Sunder and Black Hawk Ku, they do not fit our
style.

I would disagree on the Emperor, we needed a mid range assault and that fulfills that role
admirably. The vanilla version is a fine line assault in that role, but the D model is even more
fitting for us. As for the Avatar, i'd like it better if i saw something a touch more interesting
for possible configs. Yes i know i could make my own, but i like to use standard builds.

But my primary mech i wish we didn't make is the Legionairre. It's just so bloody dull, lots of
speed and one big Rotary.....how imaginative. I mean we had a moderately slower Centurion
variant already. That Centurion variant to my mind does the job way better, and cheaper.

sillybrit · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 November 2011, 14:45:56 »

Quote from: Caesar Steiner for Archon on 22 November 2011, 13:30:54

You guys didn't develop the LB-20X. The Defiance Disintegrator was the first, according to TRO:3060, followed by the Cappies.

"You guys" would imply I'm a Suns fan. Bzzzt, wrong answer, thank you for playing.

Tech Manual has the LB 20-X invented by the FedSuns, as per p207 & p290. Merc Supp II p88 confirms that.

It's worth raising the errata, but from the comparison of 3 rules entries across 2 rule books, versus the fluff in one TRO, it's likely to remain a Suns invention, especially since the TRO entry for the Barghest can be read as referring to when the Lyrans made their own breakthrough into LB 20-Xs, since by that date the Suns weren't necessarily going to share with the secessionists.