Author Topic: Clan Protectorate (Read 202351 times)

Colt Ward · « **Reply #960 on:** 06 July 2021, 22:41:54 »

Quote from: Walrus Gumboot on 06 July 2021, 21:07:18

Protomechs aren't just another weapons system, though. They are a weapon for the desperate, the reckless or the callous. The Spirit Cats seem a bit too even-keeled to go in for them, which is admittedly a weird read on people that followed a vision quest on an interstellar campaign against daunting odds and many setbacks.

A Clan warrior 10 years in the touman is on the other side of the bell curve . . . it is like telling someone smoking a cigarette playing chicken with a freight train that they could die of lung cancer. Sure, it is possible . . . but that oncoming train is a lot more likely. A proto-warrior suffering the problems 12-21 years after the surgeries is going to be a rarity, like BA troopers and mechwarriors they are much more likely to die earlier in their career.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #961 on:** 06 July 2021, 23:30:27 »

Plus Proto's can be crewed by washouts from the Aerospace program and possibly even mechwarriors (the ultra's.. and there seems little reason you couldn't design your proto cockpits to fit normal human sized pilots), not to mention freeborns/IS civilians that fit the size requirements.

Scotty · « **Reply #962 on:** 07 July 2021, 02:02:12 »

I absolutely hate that what the Jaguars did out of desperation, the Falcons did to deliberately sabotage their own Proto program, and the Society did because there was no other way to get pilots became the de-facto accepted way that Proto pilots must be trained.

Protomechs have been around for 90 years. There's no way that there aren't dedicated Proto sibkos and training programs beyond warrior candidate washouts in the Clans that still use them.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #963 on:** 07 July 2021, 02:39:56 »

the hells horses and iirc ravens have them. but the idea of being able to reuse washouts is not a bad one. look at how the Ghost Bears allow washouts to enter into lesser military positions, it saves on waste. an aeropilot that washes out can still hope to become a protopilot. a mechwarrior can still hope to end up in a garrison unit or vehicle crew, elementals could still end up as MP's or marines, etc.

given the limited trueborn manpower of the protectorate, making full use of their sibkos is a good thing.. especially if it gives warriors who failed due to bad luck or circumstance rather than lack of skill a chance for redemption.

Scotty · « **Reply #964 on:** 07 July 2021, 03:05:31 »

Yes but that isn't (or shouldn't, if the goal is actually to reduce waste) exclusive to Protomechs, and I'm vaguely irritable that this is the only context it ever gets brought up in, usually directly alluding to substandard quality pilots or requiring washouts being a limiting supply factor for pilots at the same time.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #965 on:** 07 July 2021, 09:28:37 »

The other thing to consider with the Horses and Ravens is their washed out pilots ALSO end up piloting VTOLs- great place to stick the ones who have agoraphobia or whatever it is when they eyeball the black.

Like Scotty I would expect the Ravens especially and probably the Horses (especially with their tinkering with bloodlines for elstars? or tankwarriors? cannot recall) started Proto sibkos in the Early Republic era . . . but we really do not get a good look, afaik about the 'reconstruction' that happened after the Jihad. The Ravens already have Warship & ASF separate sibkos or at least bloodline/breedings IIRC. The greatest bulk of the sources on how everyone recovered from the Jihad are from MWDA's INN articles but that is written from a IS perspective and just the shallowest look at the Clans.

I would love to see the Cats return to being Proto users, but I am not sure they have the population on Marik or the 'enclaves' on other Protectorate worlds (aka garrison bases). The Protectorate's touman IMO would split between Clan born being mechwarriors, aeropilots, BA troopers, and DS crew while the freeborns raised for the touman mostly (but not all, we have examples) crew vehicles and cover PBI roles. I am not sure they can afford the diversification of their touman yet though that could change in a few years.

BECAUSE . . . if pushed early, the Cats could have sibkos pushing new warriors into the touman by '55 though '57 is more likely if I remember the dates. The real question is do they have any of the Nova Cat's legacies? I do not remember from MWDA's world building if Delta Galaxy brought a complete repository or just a selection based on the bloodnames that were a part of the galaxy when they joined Stone. IIRC it was hazy about how much they might have shared genetic material or even how the Bloodhouses were handled (GB, HH, and Wolf were in the same boat) but that is something BT has neglected for most of the existence of the Clans. Beyond that however, I do not recall any comments about copies of the legacies accompanying Rikkard even if his mission had Kev Rosse's blessing- just that Rosse was dead and no more Spirit Cat forces were expected to join them on their staging world.

So where does the legacies come from that the Protectorate used for their first generation of sibkos?

Rncavenger · « **Reply #966 on:** 07 July 2021, 12:41:41 »

We know that there were trueborn Nova Cats in the republic . Rikkard himself for example. After the conquest of Marik, some Spirit/Nova Cats from the republic joined the Protectorate (Even a few survivors from Irice Prefecture) It is quite possible that they brought with them both genetic samples and sibgroups from prefectures adjacent to the League. In any case there is some number of warriors with a Bloodname (there is definitely Nostra, Hardo, Bavros). And the genetic storage could be built with the help of Sea Foxes.
Marik is the center of the Fox ' operations in the League region. In any case, they built a genetic reprisotory here for themselves. And share it with the Cats.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #967 on:** 07 July 2021, 13:07:09 »

As for the protomechs. I very much doubt that Spirit Cats can use it at the moment. When a thread in the future is possible. Kisho escaped from Irice with a complete technical database. But at this moment, this is clearly not a priority for them.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #968 on:** 07 July 2021, 14:07:25 »

Quote from: Rncavenger on 07 July 2021, 12:41:41

We know that there were trueborn Nova Cats in the republic . Rikkard himself for example. After the conquest of Marik, some Spirit/Nova Cats from the republic joined the Protectorate (Even a few survivors from Irice Prefecture) It is quite possible that they brought with them both genetic samples and sibgroups from prefectures adjacent to the League. In any case there is some number of warriors with a Bloodname (there is definitely Nostra, Hardo, Bavros). And the genetic storage could be built with the help of Sea Foxes.

Problems with this . . .

Where is the genetic repository in the Republic before 3132?
Best suggestion would be whatever world Kev Rosse is from but never said afaik.

Is the hypothetical (b/c it is never described let alone confirmed to exist) repository JUST cover the bloodnamed from Delta who went over to Stone? or is it (more unlikely) a complete duplication of the Cat's main repository?
The indication, based on the Mystic caste's development and Kishio's internal dialogue on Terra, is that their breeding programs followed divergent paths with little to no interaction. This means the Spirit Cats are unlikely to have any legacies of bloodnamed warriors from the Nova Cats after the split even if they have a complete inventory of every bloodhouse up to that point. If it is like other cases, the Wolves being the only other ones detailed afaik, the Clan Galaxies that went with Stone were 'de jure' Clans of their own- they had their own breeding programs, they had their own (limited) pool of Bloodnames, and their own 'toumans' in the form of enclave militias. Which means they could have something like 70-125 total Bloodnames (Delta was a frontline galaxy) to form their council . . . and the Nova Cats have that many less of course.

I would not expect the Foxes to share a repository with the Cats- IMO it would be something more akin to Strana Mechty.

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #969 on:** 07 July 2021, 16:30:29 »

I dont think there were Genetic Repositories in the Republic for either Nova Cats or Wolves? When was that stated? I only state these two as I can't remember ever seeing a Falcon, Bear or Horse group native to the Republic

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan

Empyrus · « **Reply #970 on:** 07 July 2021, 16:33:26 »

Wish there had been a Handbook ROTS to explain stuff like this.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #971 on:** 07 July 2021, 16:55:45 »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on 07 July 2021, 16:30:29

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan

Many Spirit/Nova cats DA characters born in Republic space. And they are trueborns. Rikkard, Janis , Cox Devalis etc.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #972 on:** 07 July 2021, 16:59:46 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 07 July 2021, 14:07:25

Problems with this . . .

Where is the genetic repository in the Republic before 3132?
Best suggestion would be whatever world Kev Rosse is from but never said afaik.

Is the hypothetical (b/c it is never described let alone confirmed to exist) repository JUST cover the bloodnamed from Delta who went over to Stone? or is it (more unlikely) a complete duplication of the Cat's main repository?
The indication, based on the Mystic caste's development and Kishio's internal dialogue on Terra, is that their breeding programs followed divergent paths with little to no interaction. This means the Spirit Cats are unlikely to have any legacies of bloodnamed warriors from the Nova Cats after the split even if they have a complete inventory of every bloodhouse up to that point. If it is like other cases, the Wolves being the only other ones detailed afaik, the Clan Galaxies that went with Stone were 'de jure' Clans of their own- they had their own breeding programs, they had their own (limited) pool of Bloodnames, and their own 'toumans' in the form of enclave militias. Which means they could have something like 70-125 total Bloodnames (Delta was a frontline galaxy) to form their council . . . and the Nova Cats have that many less of course.

I would not expect the Foxes to share a repository with the Cats- IMO it would be something more akin to Strana Mechty.

The early Spirit Cats are descendants of the Delta. But besides them, the descendants of Alpha and Tau still lived in the republic. Which later could well join the Spirit Cats and Clan Protectorate.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #973 on:** 07 July 2021, 20:09:46 »

iirc individual clans can create new bloodnames based on exceptional freeborns in their touman, it was just rarely used. (sarna cites warriors of the clans pg.39. this was used to create bloodhouse Magnusson in the Ghost Bears, and was one of the incentives given to Jaime and Joshua Wolf to recruit them as the leaders of the Wolf's Dragoons)
given the Spirit Cat origins, and their history, i could see them using that option to create new blood houses whole cloth from some of the IS born warriors that have been with them since the beginning, or which proved themselves against great odds.

combined with samples from known bloodlines within their forces (and possibly the Nova Cat survivors) they could probably get a eugenics program started easily enough.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #974 on:** 07 July 2021, 22:08:35 »

Quote from: Dragon Cat on 07 July 2021, 16:30:29

I dont think there were Genetic Repositories in the Republic for either Nova Cats or Wolves? When was that stated? I only state these two as I can't remember ever seeing a Falcon, Bear or Horse group native to the Republic

I thought all Clan Trueborns were from the Nova Cats who then travelled into the Republic or were the freeborn children of trueborns allowed to claim the names by the Clan

We had no Falcon enclaves ever described, nor did they have a splinter faction. Cats, Wolves, Bears and Horses all had enclaves that fielded militias for the Standing Guard. They had trueborns, sibkos, etc . . . which is why I asserted they were 'new' de facto Clans budded off the their parent Clans.

I said there was no listed repository- with trueborns, their own sibkos, and a lack of interaction between the Republic Clans & their parent Clans; it implies a repository of some degree. The question is how much of the legacies they have on hand.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #975 on:** 08 July 2021, 02:34:57 »

For example:

Quote

A product of a Nova Cats eugenics program, Lenett Lossey was born to a small Clan enclave located on Ozawa. Though bred for the rigors of BattleMech warfare and raised with the ideals of the mystical Nova Cats in his heart, there was always something more to him that went beyond the norm for a trueborn warrior. Indeed, even before he won his first Trial of Position for the warrior caste, Lenett demonstrated an innate ability to seduce and manipulate others. This ability has helped him advance his position over the years, including winning his Bloodname and a slot in the Shiva Keshik. Shrewd and politically astute, Lossey‘s methods have been limited mostly to benign deal making and effective speaking, talents he has raised to a veritable art form—for a Clan warrior.

Ozawa is now in the hands of the Draconis combine, but who knows what Spirit Cats managed to take out of there. And how many other worlds in other prefectures had similar ones "small clan enclave".

Dragon Cat · « **Reply #976 on:** 08 July 2021, 03:44:00 »

Shitara had a large enclave as well also now in Combibe hands

The Cats helped develop one of my favourite VTOL the Strix on Shitara

You'd have thought Stoners relocation program would have put enclaves far from their point of origin

Rncavenger · « **Reply #977 on:** 08 July 2021, 03:50:18 »

I think different galaxies had settlements in different prefectures. The basis of Spirit Cats was the Delta Galaxy and they are mainly from the third prefecture. It is unclear where the descendants of Alpha and Tau settled.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #978 on:** 14 July 2021, 01:20:03 »

There is a lot of information about Spirit Cats in Dark age PDA journals https://bg.battletech.com/downloads/ .So there is information about Spirit Cats enclave on the planet Marcus. This world is located quite close to Marik. And although it is now in the hands of the Wolves, the Cats have had enough years to completely migrate from it to Marik.

Quote

Spirit Cats Enclave, Outside McPherson, Marcus
Prefecture VIII, The Republic of the Sphere

Colt Ward · « **Reply #979 on:** 14 July 2021, 09:15:36 »

Thing is you have to remember the date when that news article was released, when Rikkard gathered his strength to take Marik, and the chaos of Operation Hammerfall & forming the Protectorate.

Basically, what was on that world could have already joined the Protectorate way back when.

Gin · « **Reply #980 on:** 24 August 2021, 14:42:16 »

I started reading heretic vision (?), the dark ages novel about clan nova cat and the draconis combine and something doesn't fully gel. The new phenotype of that can see the future is stated as having an incredibly high mortality rate. What exactly in their training is killing them? I mean seriously, do they ever go into details why so few manage to make it through training?

GreekFire · « **Reply #981 on:** 24 August 2021, 14:52:34 »

Quote from: Gin on 24 August 2021, 14:42:16

I started reading heretic vision (?), the dark ages novel about clan nova cat and the draconis combine and something doesn't fully gel. The new phenotype of that can see the future is stated as having an incredibly high mortality rate. What exactly in their training is killing them? I mean seriously, do they ever go into details why so few manage to make it through training?

Heretic's Faith does go into that, yeah. Just keep at it, I don't want to spoil anything if you've only started the book.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #982 on:** 24 August 2021, 16:31:26 »

If I correctly understood the answer from a recent AMA, then we will see a new book about Nova Cats from Randall N.Bills)

Colt Ward · « **Reply #983 on:** 24 August 2021, 16:42:30 »

Yeah, I think it is supposed to address what happens as they fled the DC- the Kishio Mystery.

Gin · « **Reply #984 on:** 25 August 2021, 09:48:00 »

Ohh that sounds really interesting, thanks for letting me know!

Rncavenger · « **Reply #985 on:** 30 August 2021, 01:05:38 »

One chapter in the" Hunting Season " tells about the battle for Marik. The Clan Protectorate ( Sea Foxes) is also present in other chapters.

Rncavenger · « **Reply #986 on:** 30 August 2021, 16:47:21 »

Spirit cats mechs mentioned in the book:
Koshi
Koshi 2
Mad cat 3
Shadow hawk
Grendel
Firestarter (Rikkard)

Rainbow 6 · « **Reply #987 on:** 02 September 2021, 09:51:07 »

Do we have any indication of how much of the Spirit Cat production gets sold to the rest of the FWLM?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #988 on:** 02 September 2021, 10:09:22 »

Nope . . . BUT . . . did we see one of Petr Khalsa's proteges fighting the Regulans? Star Captain Shane was a mechwarrior in the MWDA books IIRC. Considering the star had two Tiburons, Adder, and . . . having trouble remembering what else was in the star.

Interesting that we saw more of the Sea Fox component of the Clan Protectorate.

Guardian11 · « **Reply #989 on:** 23 September 2021, 01:13:30 »

The other Mech mentioned in Shane's Star was a Cougar, they didn't mention the identity of the 5th Mech in the Star, but likely another light considering it was described as a light Star and all other Mechs were lights.

Also, I appreciated the description of the battle for Marik, since the added detail helped make the battle more clear.