Unified Doctor Who thread

[Wrangler]

I've not gotten a chance to watch episode 2.  Should I bother? I don't want turn off my wife to watching it, she did enjoy Capaldi's 1st episode.   Should we wait till there a Moffet written episode?

[YingJanshi]

I've not gotten a chance to watch episode 2.  Should I bother? I don't want turn off my wife to watching it, she did enjoy Capaldi's 1st episode.   Should we wait till there a Moffet written episode?

No, go ahead and watch it. It wasn't the best episode by any stretch (basically a remake of "Dalek"), but it was still good. I think Capaldi was even better in this one.

[Lore]

I've not gotten a chance to watch episode 2.  Should I bother? I don't want turn off my wife to watching it, she did enjoy Capaldi's 1st episode.   Should we wait till there a Moffet written episode?

I think it's worth at least one viewing.

It plays up the Doctor's internal wrestling with his morals concerning the Daleks. Kind of like the Fourth Doctor and "Genesis of the Daleks." Not to that extent, of course, but it does a good job of providing us with further evidence that this will be a very conflicted Doctor.

[mdauben]

The way the Doctor basically sacrificed that rebel soldier to the robot "antibodies" so the others could get away was pretty dark. 

Brutally practical, perhaps. As the Doctor said, the one soldier was a dead man the moment he "damaged" the Dalek.  There was evidently nothing he could do to save him, so he did what he could and saved the rest of the group.

Clara has come a long way in a remarkably short time. 

Where you are not sold on Capaldi, I myself am not sold on Clara.  She's just not "clicking" for me yet as a Companion.  Certianly there have been different types of relationships between the Doctor and various Companion, but I'm just not seeing a proper synergy between the two yet as either actors or characters.

[roosterboy]

Perhaps that's because Clara hasn't had a real personality until recently (and that's still in early days yet). Since her introduction she hasn't been anything more than a walking plot device in service of Moffat's anniversary story. Now that that's out of the way, perhaps things will change.

[Wrangler]

I don't know. I've enjoyed the actress (I'm waiting tomorrow to see episode 2 of season 8 ), so far.  I agree her character origin didn't make things easy to be introduced. I like Coleman, she did work well with Smith, but with new guy its hard for me to say. I can understand the message at end of episode 1 Love me for who I am, not what I look like. but it certainly a different relationship.  Maybe we audience needs more episode to flesh things out more.   I recently saw episode 1 of season 7 when actress was introduced, she certainly had a lot personality I enjoyed.  With Peter, she doesn't seem to have that yet.  She looked like her character was alienated by drastic change in him.

I do wonder though aside form the Clara debate, what Peter's Doctor was jabbering about why he "Chose" this face. Asking the question why.   Smith's character cameoing at end of the episode didn't sound like he was happy about getting old again.

[YingJanshi]

Sharing just because... :D
http://youtu.be/bdENjiUW66w

[GreenDragon]

He "chose" the face of a Pompeiian Patrician.  Or possibly of a British official involved in the deal with aliens for Earth's children.  (Capaldi played both parts).

[gyedid]

He "chose" the face of a Pompeiian Patrician.  Or possibly of a British official involved in the deal with aliens for Earth's children.  (Capaldi played both parts).

Yes, but why that face?  What subconscious directive drove him to "choose" that face, especially since the 11th Doctor, in his "dying" moments, and having just been rejuvenated, expressed some distaste at the idea of getting old again?  (having watched himself age over the course of...oh...at least 500 years?)

cheers,

Gabe

[Wrangler]

Well. I'm still expecting a last hurrah for River Song, between these would be girl friends of the Doctor.  That should provide quality entertainment of comedic and possibly violent kind.

Hopefully, River will appreciate the new face and body.

[gyedid]

Well. I'm still expecting a last hurrah for River Song, between these would be girl friends of the Doctor.  That should provide quality entertainment of comedic and possibly violent kind.

Hopefully, River will appreciate the new face and body.

I think this will be the last we see of River.  I'm expecting that when she makes her next appearance, it'll be right before she goes with her team to The Library, and the Doctor, already knowing what will happen, violates their "no spoilers" policy and gives her the sonic screwdriver to store her consciousness in--it would certainly explain River's "you're so young" comment in "Silence In the Library", if the last time she'd seen him he was the visibly much older 12th (13th) Doctor.

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

So, back to the topic of the Valeyard...

We know that Moffat is a fanboi and likes to drop references (needlessly IMO) to details from the old series that would likely be missed by a lot of the newer fanbase.  However, since the "prophecy" of the Great Intelligence in "The Name of the Doctor" of a dark future for the Doctor, coupled with what seems to be a slightly amoral streak in #12, has a few of us wondering, will we see the Valeyard emerge soon?  Now, given what I said above, that line from "NotD" may be nothing more than a red herring, another example of Moffat not being able to help himself.  Yet, considering that this was a character who was the Big Bad for a whole season of the Sixth Doctor, it doesn't seem quite so easy to dismiss.

Up-thread, YingJanshi gave his speculation on who the Valeyard might be.  Now it's my turn.  And, now that we know more about the Doctor's hidden past during the Time War and the correct counting of his regenerations, it makes a certain sense.

We know from the old series that the Valeyard is supposed to emerge somewhere between the Doctor's 12th and 13th incarnations.  We now know that after #8, the War Doctor was the "real" 9th Doctor, even if he didn't use the name.  So that means..

War Doctor-->actual 9th
9th Doctor (Eccleston)-->actual 10th
10th Doctor (Tennant)-->actual 11th
10.2 (Tennant after "Journey's End")-->actual 12th
                                                  <--so, who goes here?
11th Doctor (Smith)-->actual 13th

Who goes in the space between "10.2" and "11"?  Somebody who has all the Doctor's knowledge and memories (at least up until his creation), but who lacks the crucial ability to regenerate?  Somebody who's already demonstrated a bit of an aggressive streak?

Not too hard to figure out... ;)

cheers,

Gabe

 

[Wrangler]

War Doctor-->actual 9th
9th Doctor (Eccleston)-->actual 10th
10th Doctor (Tennant)-->actual 11th
10.2 (Tennant after "Journey's End")-->actual 12th
                                                  <--so, who goes here?
11th Doctor (Smith)-->actual 13th

Who goes in the space between "10.2" and "11"?  Somebody who has all the Doctor's knowledge and memories (at least up until his creation), but who lacks the crucial ability to regenerate?  Somebody who's already demonstrated a bit of an aggressive streak?

Not too hard to figure out... ;)

cheers,

Gabe

There two i can think of, but i have to admit i was watching off and on during David Tennent run.  i would speculate it was the Doctor's Daughter or River.  River i would have a hard time believing she is the doctor.  It be cool if the Daughter came back in some form.   

Then again....the woman in black, who insanely thinks the Doctor is her boyfriend knows quite a bit of about him. Put the add in episode 1 to lure the Impossible Girl to the "fake" restaurant.

[Medron Pryde]

At the end of Bad Wolf, the Doctor's Hand regenerated into a new Doctor that stayed with Rose when the link between our universe and that universe was closed...

[mathesont]

What the hell is happening to Doctor Who?!

Robot of Sherwood was horrible.  The Doctor was reduced to acting like a clueless quarrelsome toddler, the plot and dialogue were on the level of the worst fan fiction and the ending was... pound head on keyboard.  The closest thing to a bright spot was Clara's conversation with the Sheriff.

[Mecha82]

Doctor Who has always had it's share of bad episodes. From new Who I can think Love and Monsters to be worst episode ever and classic Who also had it's share of bad episodes. So no, Doctor Who is not perfect series.

[Lorcan Nagle]

At the end of Bad Wolf, the Doctor's Hand regenerated into a new Doctor that stayed with Rose when the link between our universe and that universe was closed...

That was Journey's End, not Bad Wolf.

[YingJanshi]

What the hell is happening to Doctor Who?!

Robot of Sherwood was horrible.  The Doctor was reduced to acting like a clueless quarrelsome toddler, the plot and dialogue were on the level of the worst fan fiction and the ending was... pound head on keyboard.  The closest thing to a bright spot was Clara's conversation with the Sheriff.

You've described any Matt Smith episode ever.....so no change then...

[I am Belch II]

It not the new Doctor, it the episodes that are really trying hard and failing.

[Mecha82]

IMO Tennant era was far worse than Smith era and what made it worse to me was that Rose was annoying during Tennant era. More so than she was during short Eccleston era. Besides, Love and Monsters was Tennant era episode. I would had loved to see Eccleston as Doctor more than one season but I understand why they did that. They wanted to introduce concept of regeneration to new fans as soon as possible.

[YingJanshi]

IMO Tennant era was far worse than Smith era and what made it worse to me was that Rose was annoying during Tennant era. More so than she was during short Eccleston era. Besides, Love and Monsters was Tennant era episode. I would had loved to see Eccleston as Doctor more than one season but I understand why they did that. They wanted to introduce concept of regeneration to new fans as soon as possible.

Actually he left because he didn't want to do it for more than once year. It was his decision to leave, not the showrunners. (Also the fact that he felt the showrunners treated the crew poorly also has something to do with that.)

Would you care to explain why you felt that way about the Tennant era? Granted his first two series were a bit weak, but I felt then (and still do) that the fourth series with Donna is the best of the revived show. It was the most emotionally mature I feel. Then yes, the specials after that were a bit weak. But I just felt that there was no emotional depth to the series during Smith's era. (Partly because it seems like "emtional depth" means "let's kill Amy/Rory" during those stories.) I don't know, I just never connected with it. Sure it looks cool and exciting..but has no meat to it.
I guess in one way it felt like in the fourth series the Doctor could face "no win" scenarios, ones that he truly couldn't save everyone. (Like "Fires of Pompeii.) But during Smith's era, they cheapened that, by giving the Doctor some sort of Deus Ex Machina to save the day. Anyway, just my 2¢

[worktroll]

On the other hand, this episode had Lester from Primeval as the Sherriff. Am I the only one who thought
a) he looked good in the beard, and
b) he could have done a very Roger Delgado riff on the Master with that look?

Okay, he wasn't acting particularly - I kept expecting him to say "Good mammoth!" - but he could have looked the part.

And I did like "THis is getting silly!" Definitely a humour-based episode. "I'm bantering?!"

[Lorcan Nagle]

I quite liked Robots of Sherwood.  It wasn't an amazing piece of TV, and the end of the episode made no sense at all but the dialogue amused me, the cast played well off one another and the robots looked well enough. 

[I am Belch II]

To me the Robin Hood and Clara had a lot of the same feel as the Van Gogh and Amy episode.

[Wrangler]

Funny thing, Peter Capaldi is staring in the Musketeers series that's airing at the same time as 8th Season of doctor who.

For some crazy reason when I saw the Robin Hood thing, I thought they were doing silly cross over with The Musketeers. Which I think Peter Capaldi is the villain, Cardinal Armand Richelieu.  He had to be replaced.....but still its actually funny if they did do a cross over.  ;D

I've not seen the 3rd episode yet, but I'm properly going wait till Friday!

[YingJanshi]

Just watched "Robot of Sherwood" and I don't think it was all that bad. Silly, yes, but it doesn't try to take itself very seriously. It'd be hard to see this working for many of the other Doctors (maybe the 4th could have pulled it off), but with Capaldi and Jenna Coleman it mostly works. It really just felt like a filler episode. Which, with only 12-13 a season they can't really afford. And I agree, the ending was far too silly. I did like the end scene with the Doctor and Robin talking though, it really defines who this Doctor is going to be I think.

I'm not really sure where they're going with this season. Capaldi is really turning in a brilliant performance, I think he's becoming a fantastic Doctor...but it's like they're giving him scripts from the reject pile. Next week may be a creepy one though.

I have one finally thought about this current series: the Doctor may be darker, a bit difficult, but it doesn't seem like his stories are going to be. I don't think he's going to have to face any kind of moral dilemma, I don't think he is going to ever be put in a no-win situation. It seems like even though the he may be darker, his stories are going to be lighter. More childish.

[Lore]

The Doctor was reduced to acting like a clueless quarrelsome toddler ...

I actually liked that aspect of his character for this story. It had a noticeable Second Doctor-vibe to it.

On the other hand, this episode had Lester from Primeval as the Sherriff. Am I the only one who thought
a) he looked good in the beard, and
b) he could have done a very Roger Delgado riff on the Master with that look?

Oh, very much so. In fact, a few times during the episode, I had to remind myself that he was the Sheriff and not actually a Delgado-inspired Master impersonator.

[jimdigris]

As much as I'd like Peter Capaldi to do well, he just doesn't feel like "The Doctor" to me.  He's not easy to empathize with.  The writing is falling on its face as well.

[gyedid]

Interesting article on the callous side of the Doctor's character:

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/doctor-who/31963/doctor-who-the-doctors-most-callous-moments

cheers,

Gabe

[gyedid]

Just watched "Robot of Sherwood" and I don't think it was all that bad. Silly, yes, but it doesn't try to take itself very seriously. It'd be hard to see this working for many of the other Doctors (maybe the 4th could have pulled it off), but with Capaldi and Jenna Coleman it mostly works. It really just felt like a filler episode. Which, with only 12-13 a season they can't really afford. And I agree, the ending was far too silly. I did like the end scene with the Doctor and Robin talking though, it really defines who this Doctor is going to be I think.

Oh for sure.  Mark Gatiss himself said that he wrote the story to have a "Key to Time" kind of vibe.  It would have fit in quite well during the "Douglas Adams years" of the 4th Doctor--but those are precisely some of Tom Baker's least favourite...also, the whole "spaceship disguised as a castle" thing was slightly reminiscent of "State of Decay", from Baker's final season.


The fight between Robin and the Sheriff was hastily re-shot to avoid any unfortunate comparisons to current events in the Middle East--the original climax of the fight would've been Robin chopping the Sheriff's head off.  Or did you mean the whole golden arrow as extra fuel bit?

I'm not really sure where they're going with this season. Capaldi is really turning in a brilliant performance, I think he's becoming a fantastic Doctor...but it's like they're giving him scripts from the reject pile. Next week may be a creepy one though.

I have one finally thought about this current series: the Doctor may be darker, a bit difficult, but it doesn't seem like his stories are going to be. I don't think he's going to have to face any kind of moral dilemma, I don't think he is going to ever be put in a no-win situation. It seems like even though the he may be darker, his stories are going to be lighter. More childish.

We'll have to wait and see on that one.  I think he did already face a moral dilemma in "Into the Dalek", and both succeeded and failed, IMO.  He tried to do the "right" thing, but he didn't really reform Rusty, just gave it a new target for its basic directive.  As for what kind of Doctor Capaldi is, I have to agree with the above post that said he was difficult to empathize with.  He's narrow-minded and prickly in a way his immediate predecessors wouldn't be.  In the last episode in particular, I was especially put off by his pat dismissal of the possibility Robin Hood could be real--wouldn't verifying the historical accuracy of legendary figures be exactly the kind of thing the Doctor would jump at?  (Kind of surprising he hadn't addressed this particular case already!)  I mean, I could just see the 11th Doctor, with his usual kid-like enthusiasm, exclaiming "OMG you're REAL!!!" (or something to that effect) upon meeting Robin in the flesh.

So yes...I *want* to like Capaldi's Doctor, but he seems to be shaping up to be something of an anti-hero so far.

cheers,

Gabe