Unified Doctor Who thread

[Ruger]

Dark Water just finished airing on BBC 1.  I am quite satisfied with Missy's true identity.

That whole episode was just freaky!!!

Ruger

[Lazarus Jaguar]

watching as I type (during commercial break).  Just got the the reveal, and wanna say


It would have been a better surprise if BBC America hadnt showed Cybermen in the promo commercial!! >:( >:(  >:(

Finished Episode:  so much for that one fanfic concept I had :-(

[ClarkeMarek]

watching as I type (during commercial break).  Just got the the reveal, and wanna say


It would have been a better surprise if BBC America hadnt showed Cybermen in the promo commercial!! >:( >:(  >:(

Finished Episode:  so much for that one fanfic concept I had :-(

I won't argue, though I did enjoy the episode.  :)

[gyedid]

Well, with all of the fan theories being bandied about, *one* of them had to be correct eventually.  ;)


And after all that mostly fruitless supposition, we find that the principle of parsimony holds--the simplest solution was the correct one.  Kind of disappointing in a way.


Still one hell of an episode though.

cheers,

Gabe

[GreenDragon]

Dark Water just finished airing on BBC 1.  I am quite satisfied with Missy's true identity.

I on the other hand am now offended by the entirety of Stephen Moffatt's run as EP.  This is an offense to the character.
The Doctor would have done anything to save the Master - BOTH of his previous regenerations.  The Master died - his last final death - to thwart Rassilon. 
AND, he worked with the Cybermen before.  They betrayed him.  He swore never to work with them ever again.
For that matter, assuming he somehow Regenerated, and magically teleported somewhere else at the same time, he had no Gallifreyan tech.  Where would he have gotten it?
Nothing in this episode makes sense with regards to everything we know about the Master.

[ClarkeMarek]

Well, with all of the fan theories being bandied about, *one* of them had to be correct eventually.  ;)


And after all that mostly fruitless supposition, we find that the principle of parsimony holds--the simplest solution was the correct one.  Kind of disappointing in a way.


Still one hell of an episode though.

cheers,

Gabe

Nah, I didn't find it disappointing.  Though it does bring new meaning to #5 and #10's exchange in "Time Crash".  Especially after Missy vaporizes Dr. Chang.

[monbvol]

I would have been a lot happier if they had gone a different route.  Too obvious and as pointed out too many questions that make the identity we were given not make sense.

[YingJanshi]

Was quite pleased with it actually. Quite a good episode I think. And I agree with Lazarus Jaguar about the BBC promos. Oh well.
Hopefully they will be much better than the crappy Cybermen we got in "Nightmare in Silver".

I on the other hand am now offended by the entirety of Stephen Moffatt's run as EP.  This is an offense to the character.
The Doctor would have done anything to save the Master - BOTH of his previous regenerations.  The Master died - his last final death - to thwart Rassilon. 
AND, he worked with the Cybermen before.  They betrayed him.  He swore never to work with them ever again.
For that matter, assuming he somehow Regenerated, and magically teleported somewhere else at the same time, he had no Gallifreyan tech.  Where would he have gotten it?
Nothing in this episode makes sense with regards to everything we know about the Master.

The easiest way to think of it, is that "The Day of the Doctor" cancels out "The End of Time". Of course, Moffet may reconcile the two in "Death in Heaven". Maybe.

[worktroll]

I on the other hand am now offended by the entirety of Stephen Moffatt's run as EP.  This is an offense to the character.
The Doctor would have done anything to save the Master - BOTH of his previous regenerations.  The Master died - his last final death - to thwart Rassilon. 

Ah, but the Doctor knows that the Master is no longer the last other of his kind. Gallifrey exists on the wrong side of the cracks, and does not appear to be under threat. Plus, this incarnation is more inclined to let inevitable deaths happen.

[gyedid]

I on the other hand am now offended by the entirety of Stephen Moffatt's run as EP.  This is an offense to the character.
The Doctor would have done anything to save the Master - BOTH of his previous regenerations.  The Master died - his last final death - to thwart Rassilon. 

This is the only point I would agree with.  The whole bit about being left behind, being left for dead, finding the way back, makes no sense in light of the Master's willingly going back into the time lock (honestly, those lines would've made MORE sense if spoken by Romana).  However, he was motivated as much by personal desire for revenge against Rassilon as helping the Doctor thwart Rassilon's plan to end the universe.  The Master/Mistress (guess we'd better get used to that now) is many things, but NEVER an altruist.  Still, why blame the Doctor for his/her predicament?

AND, he worked with the Cybermen before.  They betrayed him.  He swore never to work with them ever again.

When was this?  I don't recall the Cybermen and the Master ever working together.  If it was in the novels or the Big Finish audios, all of that is of highly dubious canonicity.  I really would love it, though, if Missy believes she's tamed the Cybermen, only to have it all blow up in her face.

For that matter, assuming he somehow Regenerated, and magically teleported somewhere else at the same time, he had no Gallifreyan tech.  Where would he have gotten it?

From the last place we know the Master ended up--Gallifrey.  ;)  Is Missy running the High Council now?  What if, as has been suggested on some other, dedicated Who forums, it was the Master/Missy who was responsible for providing the Doctor with the additional regenerations?


cheers,

Gabe

[Ruger]

When was this?  I don't recall the Cybermen and the Master ever working together.  If it was in the novels or the Big Finish audios, all of that is of highly dubious canonicity.  I really would love it, though, if Missy believes she's tamed the Cybermen, only to have it all blow up in her face.


cheers,

Gabe

The Five  Doctors


Ruger

[monbvol]

Yeah I would have been far happier if it had been Romana, or hell even Susan.  The lines would have made a lot more sense.  Maybe they'll pull the rug out from under us and have it really be Romana or Susan having decided to call themselves Missy now and all be a misdirection.  But that'd be way too good of a twist for Moffat's displayed talents so far.

[Lore]

I can't really say how I'm feeling about Missy's reveal. It's not that it wasn't completely unexpected, just that, well, I'm a little disappointed with the fact that there was a lot of potential here to either beef up a really old and classic villain, like the Rani, or introduce a new villain that would be wholly for the Twelfth Doctor.

Ah, well. It seems like Moffat might be playing up to a new interpretation of the infamous Third Doctor/The Master rivalry of the classic era with this Twelfth/Missy set-up. So I'm okay with that too.

[gyedid]

I can't really say how I'm feeling about Missy's reveal. It's not that it wasn't completely unexpected, just that, well, I'm a little disappointed with the fact that there was a lot of potential here to either beef up a really old and classic villain, like the Rani, or introduce a new villain that would be wholly for the Twelfth Doctor.

Ah, well. It seems like Moffat might be playing up to a new interpretation of the infamous Third Doctor/The Master rivalry of the classic era with this Twelfth/Missy set-up. So I'm okay with that too.

But the Rani isn't a really old, classic villain--she was introduced during #6's time.  What you describe is what Moffat did with the Great Intelligence--and I was hoping Missy would have something to do with that.  The classic villain who needs a shot in the arm, IMO, is the Cybermen.

But what's done is done, whether we like it or not, and it remains to be explained as to how The Master/Missy made it off Gallifrey, why a woman's form now, why she blames the Doctor, and what she had to do with setting up the Doctor/Clara meeting.

Here's a thought...what if, before they both left Gallifrey, the Doctor and the Master were...well, you know....?



cheers,

Gabe

[ClarkeMarek]

But the Rani isn't a really old, classic villain--she was introduced during #6's time.  What you describe is what Moffat did with the Great Intelligence--and I was hoping Missy would have something to do with that.  The classic villain who needs a shot in the arm, IMO, is the Cybermen.

But what's done is done, whether we like it or not, and it remains to be explained as to how The Master/Missy made it off Gallifrey, why a woman's form now, why she blames the Doctor, and what she had to do with setting up the Doctor/Clara meeting.

Here's a thought...what if, before they both left Gallifrey, the Doctor and the Master were...well, you know....?



cheers,

Gabe

Actually, I was kind of thinking that Clara is to The Mistress/Master what the Valeyard was to The Doctor.  But I'm batting .000, so I'm probably off.   

[YingJanshi]

As for the Master/Doctor relationship hinted in the new episode, what about this:

What if what the Doctor(s) did in the 50th, ie: not using the moment, but instead locking Gallifrey away in a bubble universe...undid everything we saw of the Master in nuWho. So so, Derek Jacobi Master, no John Simm Master.
What if during the Time War there was a bit where the Doctor abandoned the Master, where before the rewrite the Master ran away and became Derek Jacobi and all we see following that...
But now, since the Doctor locked up Gallifrey in the bubble universe, and all we have seen never actually happened, Missy is still angry at the Doctor for abandoning her back then. Would explain how she got hold of Time Lord tech...

Honestly though, that's one of the very few things Moffet needs to do before he ever steps down. Needs to square the 50th with "The End of Time". Because basically it invalidates it completely.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Which was probably his goal.

[Lore]

But the Rani isn't a really old, classic villain--she was introduced during #6's time.

Perhaps I should've been clearer. I meant "really old and classic villain" in terms of a prominent villain from the classic series.

And I tend to see the Rani as a really old villain. Yes, she was introduced in the 6th Doctor era, but that was nearly thirty years ago, now.

[gyedid]

Perhaps I should've been clearer. I meant "really old and classic villain" in terms of a prominent villain from the classic series.

And I tend to see the Rani as a really old villain. Yes, she was introduced in the 6th Doctor era, but that was nearly thirty years ago, now.

Perhaps so, but the 2 stories that featured her aren't regarded as classics by a goodly portion of Who fandom.  And, with the Master now having assumed a female form, the character is kind of redundant.

I think those two points are related somehow  ;D

cheers,

Gabe 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Another option is that Missy is a regeneration that predates Jacobi and Simm's Masters

[jimdigris]

I'm jumping in a little late, but this has been the first good episode this season, in my opinion.

[YingJanshi]

I'm jumping in a little late, but this has been the first good episode this season, in my opinion.

Maybe I'm more forgiving (or just really enjoy watching Capaldi, have I yet said how much I love his Doctor?), but I'd say there were some pretty good ones this season, not great, but good: "Time Heist", "The Caretaker", "Flatline", "In the Forest of the Night". I thought those had been the best four of the season.

And I can't say why. I can't put my finger on it. But this season just feels more like classic Who than any of the previous 7 series. For all it's falsesteps, I love this series (I can't really say the same for 5-7...).

[monbvol]

For me too many episodes have been rehashing so much of the Doctor "getting old and daft so the sexy female companion has to figure out the problem/save the day" that we got from Gillian/Smith's era.  If they got back to more of the Doctor being ahead of everyone else like in Time Heist I'd feel a lot better about this current season.

[Lore]

Perhaps so, but the 2 stories that featured her aren't regarded as classics by a goodly portion of Who fandom.

Not sure what part of the fandom you're talking to... but most of the classic DW fans I know, either online or personally, are all eagerly awaiting the return/reboot of the Rani in the new series.  Maybe it's just a personal preference for classic Who villains, I suppose.

And, with the Master now having assumed a female form, the character is kind of redundant.

Not necessarily. The Master and the Rani have teamed up before. So a Missy/Rani team-up isn't too much of a stretch. And might be kind of fun to see, actually.

Another option is that Missy is a regeneration that predates Jacobi and Simm's Masters

Or, perhaps, just another body that the Master has taken over/assimilated. Kind of like a Tremas of Traken type scenario.

[YingJanshi]

Okay...here is something I'd like to see...Missy meeting either River Song...or Captain Jack... ;D

(Of course I'm still waiting for that Captain Jack/River Song spin-off show... :D :D :D Can you imagine the sparks? :D)

[Medron Pryde]

[Sulu]Oh Myyyyyyy[/Sulu]

That would be....well....fantastic!

:)

[Lazarus Jaguar]

For me too many episodes have been rehashing so much of the Doctor "getting old and daft so the sexy female companion has to figure out the problem/save the day" that we got from Gillian/Smith's era.  If they got back to more of the Doctor being ahead of everyone else like in Time Heist I'd feel a lot better about this current season.

Time Heist was the only one I liked this season.  It felt like a classic or even Tennant era adventure.  Not the Dany Pink/Clara Oswald soap opera most other episodes degenerate jnto.  The Doctor should not be a support character.

[monbvol]

I would say we are getting at least slightly higher quality episodes and not quite as many duds but otherwise I agree that the Doctor has become too much of the companion.

Hell if this keeps up I'd rather Moffat just make the next Doctor an attractive woman.  Maybe then we can get back to a clever Doctor who is constantly five steps ahead of everyone else and not the support vehicle that Smith and Capaldi have been.  Which is a bit of a shame because I do like Capaldi as the Doctor despite the scripts we've gotten so far.

[Lore]

Okay...here is something I'd like to see...Missy meeting either River Song...or Captain Jack... ;D

A Missy/River Song confrontation would be kind of cool.

(Of course I'm still waiting for that Captain Jack/River Song spin-off show... :D :D :D Can you imagine the sparks? :D)

Captain Jack needs to make a return -- regardless of whether it's a team-up or not. After Miracle Day, Jack needs the fun of the Whoverse once again.

[monbvol]

While Miracle Day was way better than Children of Earth I'm inclined to believe Torchwood is dead as a doornail at this point and the likelyhood of Captain Jack coming back in any form is fairly nil.