400pt. Wolf Empire... Revised to 250pt.

[Klat]

I'm considering this army list for a 3145 Wolf Empire force once the Wulfen mini is released.

Savage Wolf Prime (Skill 1) 63pts.
Warwolf Prime (Skill 2) 49pts.
Mad Dog IV Prime (Skill 2) 38pts.
Nova H (Skill 3) 25pts.
Cougar Prime (Skill 3) 18pts.
5x Elemental [AP Gauss] (Skill 3) 40pts.

5x Wulfen Prime (Skill 3) 70pts.
5x Clan Medium Battle Armor "Rabid" (Skill 3) 20pts.

2x Visigoth Prime (Skill 2) 76pts.

Total: 399pts.

Obviously this force leans toward a "quality" concept and could find itself outnumbered. Can this force work? Should I make any changes?

Thanks ahead of time.

[glitterboy2098]

i definitely say it would be outnumbered.. given you can get a 2-3 lances of 'regular' skill IS mechs for around 150pts. that force would, on average, be facing down two to three companies of IS troops.

[Klat]

Unfortunately it is rather difficult to cut points costs down in 3145. I may look into though, thanks.

[glitterboy2098]

may just want to reduce the skill levels a few steps.. that will save a lot of points.

[Klat]

may just want to reduce the skill levels a few steps.. that will save a lot of points.

Yeah, I'm terribly paranoid about my dice rolling and tend towards excessive levels of "padding" to alleviate it. The ASFs are serious point sinks too. I think the BA could be effective though, both as an activation sink and low point damage dealing.

[Josva Valdreki]

What do you mean, "once a Wulfen mini is released"?

;)

(Hint: Click on the smiley.)

[Klat]

What do you mean, "once a Wulfen mini is released"?

;)

(Hint: Click on the smiley.)

:P

[Klat]

I think I'd be better off swapping all the BA for Elemental [Flamer] at skill 3. Same cost total but I then have ten units on the board with a HT special  >:D

[Josva Valdreki]

:P

I don't like the rules. But I love the scale and some of the minis are pretty darned good.

(I wish that CBT minis were normally in 1/144 scale. And plastic.)

[Klat]

I don't like the rules. But I love the scale and some of the minis are pretty darned good.

(I wish that CBT minis were normally in 1/144 scale. And plastic.)

I do regret not giving clicky-tech a chance, and I fully admit I go full grognard when it comes to metal minis. Admitting I have a problem is the first step right?

That said, I eagerly await a BT scale Wulfen

[Savage Coyote]

I think you'll probably struggle against numerically superior opponents.  At 160ish points you can field an IS company at 4 skill.  it takes awhile to chew through all that when i can in theory kill off one or two of your guys a turn and your return killing of a 'mech or two a turn isn't as detrimental to me as I have more to give.

That said, you might be up for the challenge of making it happen and I'd be really interested to see/hear the results! :)

[Von Ether]

Yeah, I'm terribly paranoid about my dice rolling and tend towards excessive levels of "padding" to alleviate it. The ASFs are serious point sinks too. I think the BA could be effective though, both as an activation sink and low point damage dealing.

Just my opinion, but a skill level of 1 is not padding. I'd talk to an opponent about housing ruling in some Pilot abilities from either the Ad-Hoc cards or issue 10 of Ravage.

[Josva Valdreki]

I do regret not giving clicky-tech a chance, and I fully admit I go full grognard when it comes to metal minis. Admitting I have a problem is the first step right?

That said, I eagerly await a BT scale Wulfen

IMHO, Alpha Strike combines the best elements of BattleTech (customization of giant stumpy robots, turn play system that basically makes sense) with the some of the best elements of MechWarrior Dark Age of Destruction (speed of play and simplicity).

(It doesn't have the best element - the scale - but that's something that can be played around.)

So you did not really miss out on much.

[Klat]

Would swapping the two Visigoths for ten Vandal Primes at skill three fall under the "don't be a dick" rule?  >:D

[Savage Coyote]

Would swapping the two Visigoths for ten Vandal Primes at skill three fall under the "don't be a dick" rule?  >:D

Yes? ;)

[Klat]

Yes? ;)

That's what I thought.

Everytime I see a question mark after something that would otherwise be a statement I think of all the odd texts I've sent thanks to my phone's inability to understand a California accent. Everything I say gets turned into a question.

More on topic; what skill level do most folks use? I engage at long range a lot and rarely engage past medium. I've found that this works well with many newer units as they often have a worthwhile long value and enough speed to keep the range open. As such I spend a fair amount on skills. I get the idea that others think this folly.

[Savage Coyote]

Our one Alpha Strike game, everyone brought 160 or so points (I brought the Lyran company and Weirdo brought the FWL company from Alpha Strike) and fought.  We normally with TW bring X amount of BV and then everyone gets upgraded to 3/4 (or 3 in AS) to speed the game up a little.  If someone wants to pay the BV, they can upgrade their gunnery beyond that, but it makes your unit a target in my opinion!

[SteelWarrior]

An IS company is still only 160 points at 3145? 

Id drop the pilot skills back to 4s and field more units.

[glitterboy2098]

An IS company is still only 160 points at 3145? 

Id drop the pilot skills back to 4s and field more units.

it depends on how advanced the units are.. but unless you go whole hog on optimized clantech your looking at 8 to 12 mechs for 150-160 pts.

[Von Ether]

...
More on topic; what skill level do most folks use? I engage at long range a lot and rarely engage past medium. I've found that this works well with many newer units as they often have a worthwhile long value and enough speed to keep the range open. As such I spend a fair amount on skills. I get the idea that others think this folly.

Most of our local games are played in an urban spraw with lots of buildings that cut down LOS, so long range is not as optimal as it could be. Sometimes we go to Skill 3 to speed up the game.

And for a our Clan/IS fight, we gave Clanners skill 3 to even out the point cost.

[Klat]

Better late than never here's a revised list busted down to 250pts.

Savage Wolf Prime (skill 3) 37pts.
Warwolf Prime (skill 3) 36pts.
Mad Dog IV Prime (skill 3) 28pts.
Nova H (skill 3) 25pts.
Cougar Prime (skill 3) 20pts.

5x Wulfen Prime (skill 4) 50pts.

10x Elemental [Flamer] (skill 4) 40pts.

2x Vandal Prime (skill 3) 14pts.

Total: 250pts.

Does this look better?

[OpacusVenatori]

Better late than never here's a revised list busted down to 250pts.

Savage Wolf Prime (skill 3) 37pts.
Warwolf Prime (skill 3) 36pts.
Mad Dog IV Prime (skill 3) 28pts.
Nova H (skill 3) 25pts.
Cougar Prime (skill 3) 20pts.

5x Wulfen Prime (skill 4) 50pts.

10x Elemental [Flamer] (skill 4) 40pts.

2x Vandal Prime (skill 3) 14pts.

Total: 250pts.

Does this look better?

2 novas with air support, I like this.

[Klat]

2 novas with air support, I like this.

Thanks, getting rid of the Visigoths was tough but the Vandal is a super buy despite its low damage output.

[SteelWarrior]

I like your changes...

[Klat]

I like your changes...

I'm much happier with this list and I'm really glad I listened to others advice. One idea I've got though; should I swap the Elementals for Rabids and use the points to change the Vandals to B configs? I'd lose a point of close range damage on the BA and the PRB special on the Vandals but triple the damage output of the ASFs.

[Klat]

Last revision I swear! I'd just like some opinions on some slight alterations to the above list:

Savage Wolf Prime (skill 3) 37pts.
Warwolf Prime (skill 3) 36pts.
Mad Dog IV Prime (skill 3) 28pts.
Nova H (skill 3) 25pts.
Cougar Prime (skill 3) 20pts.

5x Wulfen Prime (skill 4) 50pts.

10x Clan Medium Battle Armor "Rabid" (skill 4) 30pts.

2x Vandal B (skill 3) 24pts.

Total: 250pts.

Which list is better?

[Savage Coyote]

I like the second for the Rabid's higher movement profile.  Most of your shooting will be at medium range anyway unless you can drop them off an not get them squished when they land.

I'm also a fan of the Vulture Mk IV A over the Prime in TW, and in Alpha Strike for a point more you get a 5/5/4 damage curve with LRM 1/1 and IF 1.  You loose the OV2 for more consistent damage, though it might force you to restructure your list.  Not a big deal really, just thought I'd point it out :)

[Klat]

I like the second for the Rabid's higher movement profile.  Most of your shooting will be at medium range anyway unless you can drop them off an not get them squished when they land.

I'm also a fan of the Vulture Mk IV A over the Prime in TW, and in Alpha Strike for a point more you get a 5/5/4 damage curve with LRM 1/1 and IF 1.  You loose the OV2 for more consistent damage, though it might force you to restructure your list.  Not a big deal really, just thought I'd point it out :)

With such a small point increase I bet I could make it work. I'll fiddle with it, thanks.

[Hellraiser]

As much as I love me some Air Support,  my group does not mix our AT & BT games.
We shoot for as much simplicity in the game as possible & mixing the 2 is just another element we don't need.

So I'd drop the Vandals completely & use the points to upgrade some skills in the other units or find a way to keep shaving down the total point count.

At 25K BV2 (translated) your still going to be facing a pretty massive numbers advantage by the other team and Elementals IIRC, don't translate well into AS stats (at least I think that is what I heard).

Maybe get some lower pointed mechs & try to squeeze in a full mech trinary?

[Savage Coyote]

Takes four points of damage to off either the normal elementals or Rabid's and they are always at least +3, if not +5 to hit at medium range before worrying about getting into terrain.  The one big game we've played saw them as annoying and effective additions to the clan lance a guy brought.  Do you try to drop the Gargoyle E at +2 to hit before range or the elementals?  Then on his turn, he knocks a 'mech down to one or two damage left and the elementals clean that 'mech up.  I was impressed for the points spread.  One damage might not seem like much, but it adds up. 

[Klat]

What Steve said. BA is nasty and cheap in AS and the Rabids have HT1  >:D

Also, ASFs are super easy to use in AS. The Vandals are cheap and fast enough to hustle around the radar map while still carrying bombs. This list has 22 activations; at approximately 50 points for a skill 4 IS lance I'd love to take a list like this against 20 IS 'Mechs.

BTW hitting a Wulfen at medium range with skill 4 takes an 11  :o

[Klat]

So it appears I'm mathematically illiterate  :-[ I calculated some of my points with the wrong multiplier...

Savage Wolf Prime (skill 3) 39pts.
Warwolf Prime (skill 3) 37pts.
Mad Dog IV A (skill 3) 30pts.
Nova H (skill 3) 25pts.
Cougar Prime (skill 3) 21pts.

5x Wulfen Prime (skill 4) 50pts.

10x Clan Medium Battle Armor "Rabid" (skill 4) 30pts.

2x Vandal Prime (skill 2) 18pts.

Total: 250pts.

Look on the bright side; now I can take the Mad Dog IV A  8)

[Hellraiser]

Takes four points of damage to off either the normal elementals or Rabid's and they are always at least +3, if not +5 to hit at medium range before worrying about getting into terrain. 

I'm a little disturbed at that armor rating.
I can't see how they get FOUR points to be killed.
My math has them at 2 Max.  (50-55 points to kill a point in CBT scale.)

[Klat]

I'm a little disturbed at that armor rating.
I can't see how they get FOUR points to be killed.
My math has them at 2 Max.  (50-55 points to kill a point in CBT scale.)

I think it has to do with the way BA take damage in TW. More troopers seem to change how much damage a squad can take more than the armor of the BA. If you think that's odd checkout the Harpy ProtoMech  ???

[Savage Coyote]

I'm a little disturbed at that armor rating.
I can't see how they get FOUR points to be killed.
My math has them at 2 Max.  (50-55 points to kill a point in CBT scale.)

They have two points of armor and two points of internals, so four damage leaves them with none! :)

[Hellraiser]

They have two points of armor and two points of internals, so four damage leaves them with none! :)

Yeah, I hear you, that just doesn't translate well if I'm remembering my conversion rules at all.

Elemental = 10 Armor + 1 Internal
Rabid = 9 Armor + 1 Internal

Points = 45/50 Armor + 5 Internal.

Conversion = 30 to 1 (32?)

So at BEST a point of Clan BA should be 2 Armor & 1 Internal........ And I could make an argument that since the Internals are very overrated in that conversion that the total points should actually leave them at 1+1

Point being is that it shouldn't take 4 points to kill them off at all.
  That translates into a point taking 120 Damage to kill.  Not 50-55
So yeah, they seem very much over powered to me.