Armored Fighting Vehicles VI: Eye of the Tiger

[SteelRaven]

I always enjoyed the look of the wheeled gun platforms. The performance of such vehicles varies allot from chases to chases and each conflict but there is something about them I find interesting every time I see one.   

[worktroll]

Centauros aren't IFVs, they're tank destroyers/fire support. So no room for PBI inside needed, and low profile an asset.

The Freccia is the IFV built on the Centauro chassis; note higher & straight-sided hull, and smaller & taller turret.

[chanman]

Here's one for F16

Aussie museum finishes restoration on a Panhard EBR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gz7tPCT7Flk

[Natasha Kerensky]

T-14 turret on a BMP-1 chassis (I think):

https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/14npsnk/t14_armata_made_from_bmp1/

A true Universal Combat Platform…

Or desperate times, desperate measures.

[rebs]

T-14 turret on a BMP-1 chassis (I think):

https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/14npsnk/t14_armata_made_from_bmp1/

A true Universal Combat Platform…

Or desperate times, desperate measures.

Definity the latter/last.

[Daryk]

I thought the Armata turret was bigger than that? ???

[Natasha Kerensky]

I thought the Armata turret was bigger than that? ???

The shape of the turret looks about right when viewed from the same perspective on a proper T-14:

https://tankhistoria.com/modern-day/t-14-armata-russias-latest-tank-thats-nowhere-to-be-seen/

But the main gun looks shorter and smaller on the BMP.  That may be where some dimensional or mass savings were found/taken advantage of.

[worktroll]

Also missing the turret bustle, which presumably holds main gun ammo in blow-out cells.

Which means it's not a plug & play; it's more likely "We have these turret assemblies half-finished, and no tank, and no main guns. What can we do with them?"

[PsihoKekec]

T-14 turret on a BMP-1 chassis (I think):

https://www.reddit.com/r/tanks/comments/14npsnk/t14_armata_made_from_bmp1/

A true Universal Combat Platform…

Or desperate times, desperate measures.

Looks like a mock up, size of the turret is bit off and the gun barrel is a bit off. Not to mention that the turret rings wouldn't match with real turret.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Mock up or good photoshop, the turret's far too small to be a true T-14 turret - it'd be like putting an Abrams turret on a Bradley.  It's not a T-15 turret either, so I'm leaning to photoshop myself.

[SteelRaven]

I decided to look up allot of pics of the t-14 and other BPM's just out of curiosity, ANS Kamas P81 is right on the money about the proportions.

You can get a better idea of how big the T-14 is from the pics from the parade day premier where you can see the commander and driver sitting near the turret.

Furthermore, the more I look at the Reddit pic, the more things look missing. All the angels are right but the certain details are missing, the main gun looks completely stationary and the rack/pegs/whatever for the PK bi-pod are kinda useless for actual combat. If it's photo shop, amazing work. Otherwise I can only think it was a proof of concept mock up or some sort of prop mock up prior to the actual conflict as there are no time stamps.         
 

[SteelRaven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0A_vZ9LY-ng

[chanman]

This one's for @Failure16

French tanks!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfjRIdpS0oo

[Fat Guy]

First image of the Challanger 3 prototype:

[Daryk]

How the heck is the driver supposed to get out?

[chanman]

How the heck is the driver supposed to get out?

I assume with some difficulty unless the turret is turned a bit, but isn't that the case with Abrams as well?

Given the front armour arrangement, I assume the hatch slides forward to open. I think that's fairly common with modern MBTs where frontal armour arrays tend to hang over the driver position, especially if the armour has been added after the initial design (Leopard 2A5 and forwards, every iteration of the Abrams). The gun also gets in the way for tanks with a central driver position.

[Daryk]

The driver position is set so far back, I'm not sure turning the turret would be enough...

[I am Belch II]

That is a huge turret on the Challanger 3. It does have the upgraded 120mm

[worktroll]

Anyone looking to go above 120-125mm for main guns? 

[glitterboy2098]

Anyone looking to go above 120-125mm for main guns?

the German Panther KF51 supposedly will have a 130mm. but i suspect it'll end up using the existing 120mm at first.

[PsihoKekec]

Looks like Challenger 2 with some applique armour. It's like they are taking the upgrade they are mulling upon since 2007 and spinning it as a new tank. It's not like UK is capable of building new tanks anyway.

[chanman]

Looks like Challenger 2 with some applique armour. It's like they are taking the upgrade they are mulling upon since 2007 and spinning it as a new tank. It's not like UK is capable of building new tanks anyway.

The real question is if they'll build enough to justify/amortize that R&D cost. You don't want to end up like the Ariete with only 200 made.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Anyone looking to go above 120-125mm for main guns?

Is there a need for going to a 130+ main gun?

[Fat Guy]

The real question is if they'll build enough to justify/amortize that R&D cost.

148 is the plan.

[Gorgon]

the German Panther KF51 supposedly will have a 130mm. but i suspect it'll end up using the existing 120mm at first.

We'll see if it ever gets put into production. The KF51 is Rheinmetall's attempt to show up KMW / Nexter and push their idea of the new standard in MBT construction. Part of that is the 130mm cannon Rheinmetall has designed. Currently, it doesn't seem to have much success replacing the MGCS program in Germany and France. I'm sceptical if the Rheinmetall - Ukraine deal actually produces any results, much less on the timeframe they have put forward. (KF51 in production in Ukraine before the year is out)

[SteelRaven]

Is there a need for going to a 130+ main gun?

Believe it's mostly in response to the T-14 Armata which also boast a 130mm gun and the not so subtle hints that it was built to compete with western tank.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Despite the questionable nature of whether the T-14 is actually being built in any significant quantities or actually being deployed in combat?

[SteelRaven]

Think it was one part the return of the Cold War design philosophy of 'We have to have the bigger gun!' and one part Russia having very good PR for their military at the time.

It's also good to keep in mind some tend to make knee jerk statements in regards to the future of military development, 'the tank is obsolete' was very common statement when the success Javelin Weapon System made the news.       

[chanman]

148 is the plan.

I don't know what the minimum order number is to make designing and building a new MBT viable, but that's gotta be on the low-end for sure.

[glitterboy2098]

Despite the questionable nature of whether the T-14 is actually being built in any significant quantities or actually being deployed in combat?

Nyet to both. they've built less than 40 (the initial 'test order' issued in 2021) and no one has ever seen more than the 7 seen in parades even more than two years later. supposedly they halted the development and production project after starting the invasion of ukraine. and the closest they've gotten to actual fighting has been those parades in moscow, otherwise they're being kept in the training academy in Kazan, volga district.  more than 1500 miles from the fighting.

one of the reasons i suspect the new Panther will end up with a 120mm gun in the end. it'll end up cheaper, and the main 'threat' they wanted the 130mm for looks to be the next closest thing to vaporware. the other new features on it appear to be pretty useful though, especially the built in drone/loitering munition launch system.