Author Topic: Power is a goal. Pleasure is eternal. Welcome to Canopus. (Read 218017 times)

Moonsword · « **Reply #360 on:** 08 July 2011, 03:03:12 »

The Deep Lord isn't a militia 'Mech, really. That's what the Sentry was for. This is several steps down in terms of prestige. Deep Lord: By back of beyond hick thugs for back of beyond hick thugs!

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #361 on:** 08 July 2011, 05:16:16 »

"That's not a mace, that's a banjo."

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #362 on:** 08 July 2011, 05:34:48 »

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

False Son · « **Reply #363 on:** 08 July 2011, 13:51:27 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 08 July 2011, 05:16:16

"That's not a mace, that's a banjo."

It's a Dandelion

Stormcrow · « **Reply #364 on:** 09 July 2011, 08:11:09 »

Why is there a mace on a militia 'Mech, it makes no sense. Some RLs, SRMs or LMGs attached to an array would be better suited.

Ian Sharpe · « **Reply #365 on:** 09 July 2011, 09:11:52 »

Deep Lords are an embarassing step back. I hope once past the early MWDA years, we don't keep getting trash mechs.

Maelwys · « **Reply #366 on:** 09 July 2011, 17:48:42 »

Thinking about it, do such "Militia" `Mechs make sense any more? Prior to the Jihad we saw a heavy increase in the capabilities of pirate `Mechs. Part of this was the influence of the WoB, part of it was a simple increase in technology across the known universe.

Post Jihad I can't imagine it getting much better, with units broken during the Jihad going the pirate route like they've been doing for centuries, and bringing their `Mechs with them. You might be able to get away with these Militia `Mechs if they had shown up in say, 3020, but I have to wonder how effective they are beyond the most extreme of cases.

Moonsword · « **Reply #367 on:** 09 July 2011, 18:19:57 »

I agree, personally, but the problem isn't CGL. It's those converted WorkMechs WizKids spammed everywhere. CGL is at least trying to make them make a little more sense. Besides, the Deep Lord and the Arbiter aren't going to the big powers. They're going to bottom of the barrel customers, people so desperate for more 'Mechs that they don't care how bad they are individually. We've seen this before. They're called Quasits. At least this time they're being honest about it.

Kit deSummersville · « **Reply #368 on:** 09 July 2011, 19:15:34 »

I think the MoC has done pretty well in rearming themselves lately, I don't the Deep Lord is anything to freak out about.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #369 on:** 09 July 2011, 19:21:00 »

We produce tanks, why aren't people complaining about those? Oh god they're weak and underarmed and can't do everything a 'Mech can! So...don't use them like 'mechs. Send Deep Lords where your tanks can't go, when your 'Mechs are busy elsewhere. Considering we're buying as many 'Mechs as we can from the Capellans, that means our own production is at maximum and can't be improved - and if I can build X Battlemechs a year versus the same number Battlemechs a year plus some nonBattlemechs on the side? I'll take the non-Battlemechs on top of my maximized production.

Or are we the same kind of people who would complain about getting a free eggroll with our order because it's not an extra entree instead?

Ian Sharpe · « **Reply #370 on:** 09 July 2011, 19:37:02 »

Tanks are more useful than Deep Lords. I suppose they might scare somebody off in between comically potshotting each other and themselves with their greenie pilots and maces. I envision a Mech three stooges act. On the plus side, they can be OpFor and use live ammo to keep it real, with little danger of doing damage to the real Mechs and tanks. Guess there is a silver lining after all. :P

False Son · « **Reply #371 on:** 10 July 2011, 20:29:24 »

I don't understand everyone's hatred of the Deep Lord. It's not great, but at 714 BV i don't see what the problem is. In a city or any other site for easy ambushes it can do marvelous thing for it's BV.

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #372 on:** 23 July 2011, 08:46:59 »

I've been away for a while, therefore I've got some questions regarding products which could treat on the MoC.

1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?

3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)

4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?

Moonsword · « **Reply #373 on:** 23 July 2011, 09:07:56 »

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

No, it's a collection of production models of some of the things in the XTROs. The Magistracy got some new toys, either directly (Vengeance PWS) or indirectly (Dola). Plus the Deep Lord, however you want to rate that.

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?

It's continuing and there's certainly Primitives and the Clan book intended.

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)

6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?

I'm answering these two together; the PDF exclusive series have slowed down but have not been cancelled to the best of my knowledge.

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

Nothing I've heard.

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

The Canopian campaign was the second shortest and, from my understanding, the least complicated of the various campaigns with less of the major reversals, complicated political wrangling, and sheer backstabbing involved in the Outworlds, making it a good place to cut page count on a book that's absolutely stuffed with information, but it's admittedly the worst coverage in the book. There's additional information about the situation in other areas and the short story about Crystalla Centrella and Ian Marik is certainly entertaining.

Keep in mind that they had to cover four campaigns, all of them longer than and together larger than the Fourth Succession War, the background politics, the people, the technology (and untangling a few other messes in the process) and had to devote pages to various rules that are necessary - including full WMD rules, campaign rules, rules for irregulars, etc. And we got some new hardware, including a new Canopian fighter. And all of this was done in fewer pages than the NAIS Atlas's two volumes had together. Sure, some more details would be nice, but personally, considering the whole range of what we got, I'm happy.

jimdigris · « **Reply #374 on:** 23 July 2011, 10:20:19 »

One thing I find interesting is another dropship with mysterious origins. Maybe the MIM did much better at stealing WOB stuff than has been previously discussed. :)

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #375 on:** 23 July 2011, 11:03:34 »

We still haven't had an explanation of just where the MIM got its sudden injection of ultra-competency, have we?

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #376 on:** 23 July 2011, 16:18:38 »

Thanks a lot for your answers, Moonsword!

Quote from: Moonsword on 23 July 2011, 09:07:56

No, it's a collection of production models of some of the things in the XTROs. The Magistracy got some new toys, either directly (Vengeance PWS) or indirectly (Dola). Plus the Deep Lord, however you want to rate that.

So does this mean, the units in TRO: Prototypes are (a) not identical with those from the already puplished XTRO's and (b) are dedictated for standard production?

Our navy got the Vengeance? Finally! Yeah! 8)

Maelwys · « **Reply #377 on:** 23 July 2011, 17:09:18 »

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 08:46:59

I've been away for a while, therefore I've got some questions regarding products which could treat on the MoC.

1. Is the new TRO: Prototypes a collection of the previous released XTRO PDF series?

No, though quite alot of the designs in it originated in the XTRO series. They've been "updated," with some of the experimental technology pulled out to make them better suited towards mass production.

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2. What about the XTRO series? WIll there be new ones like the announced XTRO: Periphery?

I'd expect a continuation of them eventually. My guess is most of CGL's efforts right now are towards putting out actual books rather than just short PDFs for the Con season. If you read through Prototypes, its obvious what some of the designs will be in XTRO:Clans. For example, there's mention of a Hell's Horses' experimental Enyo with an XXL engine and ERLPL in the fluff of the screwy ERMPL Enyo, which I expect will show up in XTRO:Clans.

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3. What about the Field Report series? I'm waiting for FR: Periphery. ;)
6. Any news on the new objectives PDF series?

There's supposed to be Field Reports for the Clans and Periphery, and presumably Objectives for everyone, but like the XTRO series my guess is they've been put on the backburner until after the Con season is over. Don't feel too bad. Heck, Kurita players are still waiting for their Handbook ::)

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4. Some weeks ago Herb answered my question in the lead developer's section about Canopian noble titles with the announcement of a yet unknown product which would treat on that. Any news on that?

Not a clue. It could've been in Reunification Wars, but wasn't obviously. It could get squeezed into one of the FRs or Objectives books, but considering the Periphery one will have multiple factions to cover, a list of Canopian noble titles seems unlikely to say the least with their limited page counts. Could be a product we haven't seen mentioned yet, like some Era Report, or an RPG supplement I suppose.

Quote

5. What about Reunification War? From the ToC the chapter about the MoC seems a bit small.

It is, but that was sort of expected. The Magistracy's campaign was mostly straight forward compared to the other campaigns, with most of the twists simply being shell games and conflicts taking longer than expected. The only real surprise was the raid on Meadovale (and subsequent trap at Thurrock). So its not surprising that it might be shorter than the other sections.

On the other hand, some more detail might have been nice. I'm still not exactly sure what the HomeGuard units did, as unless I miss my guess, they're never mentioned again after a brief writeup. The new Magistracy fighter is kind of interesting (even if I think it might get blown out of space due to its speed), but we still don't know anything about the Magistracy Warship that debuted a few years before the RW.

Quote from: jimdigris on 23 July 2011, 10:20:19

One thing I find interesting is another dropship with mysterious origins. Maybe the MIM did much better at stealing WOB stuff than has been previously discussed. :)

My guess is its simply a Vengeance that they somehow got their hands on. Maybe they bought it second hand at some point. It could account for the rumor in Handbook Periphery of a "Naval" training program. Considering the MoC's limited aerospace program, if they thought they were going to be rebuilding a Vengeance to standard spec, that could be quite a boost for the Canopian navy. During the Jihad they might have modified their approach, piecing together technology from various sources to build the PWS instead of a standard Vengeance.

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 23 July 2011, 16:18:38

So does this mean, the units in TRO: Prototypes are (a) not identical with those from the already puplished XTRO's and (b) are dedictated for standard production?

Yeah, they're downgraded somewhat. For instance, the Dola replaces its Vibrosword with a regular sword, and are geared towards regular production (but they're not necessarily Tournament legal only, even with the change in status of some of the equipment that comes with Prototypes). Why its called Prototypes I'm still not sure to be honest.

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Our navy got the Vengeance? Finally! Yeah! 8)

Sort of. Its a modified Vengeance, which carries less fighters, but more (much more) armor and weaponry. Its sort of an odd duck. It probably doesn't have the firepower to go up against other dedicated PWS designs, so it seems geared towards supporting its fighters, rather than being the killer of all.

Moonsword · « **Reply #378 on:** 23 July 2011, 17:26:59 »

What, I didn't answer it well enough for you? :P

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #379 on:** 23 July 2011, 18:32:57 »

Side note on the Vengeance variant, it's packing Piranhas for subcap missiles, and is in production in the CC - we let them reverse-engineer the first one in exchange for half of whatever comes off the line; currently we have three ships as of the IC print date.

Quote from: Moonsword on 23 July 2011, 17:26:59

What, I didn't answer it well enough for you? :P

Nope.

Maelwys · « **Reply #380 on:** 23 July 2011, 21:18:04 »

Actually, it just says that they started alternating with the CSN Fuuzi and MCS Emerald Queen, not that those were the only ones produced after they replicated the MCS Danai Centrella and built the MCS Tuatha de Danaan.

Since they replicated the design and built the MCS Tuatha de Danaan in late 3083, I doubt the Shipyards are only producing 1 ship every 3 years (the Fuuzi and Emerald Queen), that would be kind of silly, especially considering the speed that the factions are building their PWS's. Even at producing 2 per year, I'd expect to see another 12 ships produced (the Fuuzi and Emerald Queen in 3084, 2 more in 3085, 2 in 3086, 2 in 3087, 2 in 3088, 2 in 3089, 2 in 3090).

While I normally hate numbers, I'd expect the MoC to have atleast 9 of these designs, and the Capellans 7. And that's assuming that they're produced at 2 a year (for instance, the Clans seem to be producing their PWS's at 6+ per year...I'm not suggesting the Capellans have the same production rate as the Clans, just that 2 per year is potentially low).

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #381 on:** 23 July 2011, 22:06:46 »

For hulls, yeah, but for all we know the Piranha launchers are akin to Clan tech weapons made in the IS; very expensive and very limited. Makes a fine bottleneck for holding down production.

Maelwys · « **Reply #382 on:** 23 July 2011, 23:34:35 »

Considering the speed at which everyone else is building the ships, I doubt they're that hard to make. And if they're limited to 1 ship every 3 years, then I can't imagine either faction would be happy with that turn out. With the FS kicking out Arondights, Claymore V3s, Overlord A3s, and Excalibur PWSs, I can't imagine the Capellans would be happy with a design that nets them 1 ship every 6 years (since they have to share half the production with the MoC), even with the Lung Wang P2 taking up some of the slack.

No, I'm guessing those two named were just the first ships off the new line, not the only two.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #383 on:** 24 July 2011, 01:39:05 »

Certainly plausible, just offering possibilities. Personally I'm all for what gives us more of the things myself...

Maelwys · « **Reply #384 on:** 24 July 2011, 06:53:14 »

I guess the question is going to be, "How the heck are these things going to be deployed?" My first gut reaction would be to say that they're going to be used to beef up/rebuild the two Canopian fleets, but the first appearance of the design was on the Republic border, which indicates a more...aggressive approach. Could each regiment be getting their own Vengeance-DCs?

Moonsword · « **Reply #385 on:** 24 July 2011, 07:18:21 »

That depends on whether that first appearance was a sop to their Capellan allies or an actual indication of their foreign policy goals other than maintaining their alliance with the Confederation.

Maelwys · « **Reply #386 on:** 24 July 2011, 08:09:33 »

Good point, I hadn't even considered that. It could just be a "See, we're helping!" moment, combined with a nice reveal so that the Capellans will go "ooh" and "ahh" and help reverse engineer it.

Moonsword · « **Reply #387 on:** 24 July 2011, 10:21:45 »

That's my guess on it. The Canopians don't seem as gung-ho to go poke the enemy with a stick as Sun-Tzu is but they are interested in staying on his good side.

Granted, at this point, Naomi can probably manage that with sweet nothings and maybe a bull whip, but something that the rest of the Confederation will buy is helpful too.

Maelwys · « **Reply #388 on:** 25 July 2011, 04:14:00 »

Just a small history note for those interested. According to Jihad Secrets, in 2765, the McKenna-class Zughoffer Weir was one of this ships dispatched to the MoC during the New Vandenburg Rebellion, presumably to help oppress the uprising.

Quote from: Moonsword on 24 July 2011, 10:21:45

That's my guess on it. The Canopians don't seem as gung-ho to go poke the enemy with a stick as Sun-Tzu is but they are interested in staying on his good side.

"Look, see, its on the border! Now, uh, don't you want to pull it back so you can examine it safely?"

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #389 on:** 25 July 2011, 09:26:49 »

Quote from: Maelwys on 25 July 2011, 04:14:00

Just a small history note for those interested. According to Jihad Secrets, in 2765, the McKenna-class Zughoffer Weir was one of this ships dispatched to the MoC during the New Vandenburg Rebellion, presumably to help oppress the uprising."

Well that puts McEvedy's Folly in new light.