PC techs... Broken?

[Mumbles]

Hello all,
in my BT game I have a PC Tech that seems a little broken and i was hoping someone could let me know if the rules are being interpreted right or if something is off.  in game time of less than a month he has repaired 2 mechs up to clan quality. in SW4 time

Skill CBT RPG skill 4 (8-4 sets target number of 4)
2 repair kits       -2
tech empathy       -1
team          +0
tech level D      +1
Quality D              +0
era mod               +2
mainenance facility    -2
high grav               +2
individual parts       -1

Maintenance check    3s

For an elite crew TN would be 8's for maintenance in the same situation

At this level even a roll of two results in no negative result.  couple questions to start, in strategic ops there is no mention of repair kits, should these be added to these repair rolls? tech empathy?

for repairs even three hits to the engine is only looking for 6's (-1 for individual parts does not apply here does it?)

Thanks guys!!

[Warpimp]

I'm not an expert on AToW by any means. However it seems to me that if a PC is going to be a tech then routine maintenance should be easy. To me a PC tech should be able to jury rig things and with some good rolls be able to bring a mech back from the dead and essentially be an ace in the whole when it comes to repairs and maintenance.

[Mumbles]

I completely agree with you that a PC tech should be superior but in this case failure or even a setback is very unlikely so its not like the PC can pull something off though good rolling its whats desired happens, every time...

one other thing i noted was in the description of the tech location tools are a large part of the description

 eg "Any tool needed, ideal conditions, cannot build any part from scratch but enough resources available to cobble together “best fi ts” and “solid bypasses” that almost pass for the real thing." (-2 mod)

might this not be supposed to stack with say a basic repair kit? and mech repair kit? (-2 mod)

Thanks again

[Warpimp]

I don't think the two repair kits would stack with a maintenance facility since the facility has all the kits would have and more.

[YarickZan]

One thing you have to consider is routine maintenance is just that, routine. Catastrophic damage on the other hand, engine hits, lost limbs, damaged life support, should have the difficulty torqued up because of the very nature and importance of them. Also another thing I want to point out is usually techs work in teams for each unit. Maybe something like 5 people to repair a mech or something like that.

[Jake Sweeper]

Or at the very least, one tech and several astechs in assistance.

IIRC, Techs were even rarer than Mechwarriors in the SW4 era. The Helm Memory Core had just been discovered right before SW4 kicked off, so the data hasn't been distributed far, much less studied and understood, yet. So from a "Historical" standpoint, even House Army Tech sections, (whom would most likely get the best available), would be doing a large amount of scrounging, jury-rigging, and and general part-swapping to keep the battlemechs operational. Even routine maintenance would be a challenge in the field. 

[Sigma]

Dumb question, but shouldn't you be taking a penalty for not having a tech team, just a single tech? Been a while since I checked the Stratop rules but you should have at least a couple of astechs helping out.

[guardiandashi]

I know in mw 2nd edition there wasn't a skill penalty for not having the astechs but there was a TIME penalty for not having them

in that edition a tech team was 1 tech and 5 as techs  each missing astech added a 20% repair time penalty and not having a repair platform (or equivalant) was a 100% time penalty right there


so assuming an engine repair (1 crit) was 180 minutes no repair platform or no astechs would immediately make it 360min and depending on how you read it missing both (IE tech working by themself)  would make that repair either 540 min or 720 min

[A. Lurker]

StratOps page 171 has, among other things, a table for Team Casualty Modifiers (the tech is always assumed to be eliminated last). Presumably the same modifiers should apply if one or more astechs are alive and well but simply not there, so a tech working all by him- or herself (equivalent to six team casualties) would incur a +4.

[Talz]

I don't think the two repair kits would stack with a maintenance facility since the facility has all the kits would have and more.

Agreed, and the point about a +4 modifier if the work is done without any assistants is also an important bit to keep in mind.

Most repair work should be fairly straight forward though, problems for any competent tech should really only pop up on the most difficult repair tasks as long as you have proper time, support staff, supplies and working conditions.  Only when one or more of these things is short is when problems should start potentially popping up IMO.

[Crunch]

Remember that to work on a Mech you need at least 4 Different skills (Technician/Myomer, Weapons, Electronics and Mechanics) and Technician/Jets for a machine with Jump Jets.

[Cerberus_02]

tech empathy

Doesn't this mean the PC tech is naturally better at technical stuff?

for repairs even three hits to the engine is only looking for 6's (-1 for individual parts does not apply here does it?)

Three engine hits is an engine destroyed, AFAIK; there's a good tech, a really good tech, and then there's having to buy a whole new engine, even if you're the reincarnation of MacGuyver.

[Jackmc]

Three engine hits is an engine destroyed,

No, three engine hits is a disabled enginge.  You must crit out all the engine crits to irrepairably frag an engine.

-Jackmc

[guardiandashi]

to clarify 3 crits on an engine is a functionally disabled/ broken engine.  for repair purposes it is heavilly damaged and will not start/run

to use a car analogy the first crit is like causing the radiator to start leaking and /or pull a spark plug wire (or 2)
the second crit causes additional issues
the 3rd crit is loosing the distributor, the water pump, or carb/fuel pump the motor WILL not run until some repairs are made

its not until the engine takes its last crit that the block is cracked /bearings siezed and the motor is junk

[StCptMara]

So, I just double checked his math(and will be giving this via the AToW rules)

When you total everything up, he has a -1 to his die roll(as, if you consider that the maintenance facility has all the stuff
that is in a repair kit, they really shouldn't stack). Considering that the base target numbers for technician skills are 8,
this means that his skill level+dice roll would need a 9 total to succeed.

Mumbles left an important piece of info out, though, for us to be able to know if his tech is "broken": Namely his
tech's individual skills. As pointed out: he needs Tech/Mechanical (to patch the armour and internal structure),
/Myomer(to do actuator repairs), /Nuclear(to work on the engine), /Weapons(to...repair weapons), /Electronics (to fix
damaged sensors, recalibrate a neurohelmet), /Jets(to work on Jump Jets). This is 6 skills to be a fully trained 'Mech Technician.

Note that I am assuming that since he listed Team +0, that means he has a full team of Astechs.

Without his skill ratings, I would be inclined to say that he still not horribly broken. This is because of a conceit with an RPG:
Player Characters are, by their very nature, exceptional people. Besides which, while everyone is out in their big stompy robots,
what is the poor tech player doing but sitting and waiting to see how badly shot up the 'mechs are...not every tech gets to go
out like Zuma....

[Cerberus_02]

No, three engine hits is a disabled enginge.

to clarify 3 crits on an engine is a functionally disabled/ broken engine.

My character's not a tech; it's a destroyed engine.   #P

[StCptMara]

My character's not a tech; it's a destroyed engine.   #P

Really? You know that you have to pick a tech skill as part of being an IS/Periphery Mechwarrior(it is part of the field), right?

[Sandslice]

Really? You know that you have to pick a tech skill as part of being an IS/Periphery Mechwarrior(it is part of the field), right?

Hopefully, the translation is "I have a tech skill, but it's not Tech/Nuclear."

[Talz]

Really? You know that you have to pick a tech skill as part of being an IS/Periphery Mechwarrior(it is part of the field), right?

One Training/Any skill part of the standard MechWarrior Field, just not the Clan MechWarrior Field.  Of course that training could be in any technical specialty, common sense would mean it's one of the five mech related skills but even then most MechWarriors will be clueless on fusion engine repair.

Beyond that it's also possible to create a character with an unconventional training background and not use the field. 

[Khymerion]

Never thought of PC techs as broken per say, at least from the RP standpoint.

Sure, they will breeze through general maintenance like it is nothing... because it is generally nothing.  If most groups operate like my players do, each character, no matter the concept, has at least one specialized tech skill they bring to the table.   They debate it out.   They might not be the best but they try to be able to help out the specialist tech player of the group, to be that member's assistants when push comes to shove.

Sure, they know that they have dedicated techs back at base or on the dropship but out in the field, inevitable cut off from supplies and assistance or trying to patch damage after a hard fought drive on a front and only having a few hours at best to make repairs... then they are more than happy to have those numbers cranked so high to actually make it possible.

Sure, they look and sound like an A-Team build montage (Infact, I usually have the theme cued up on the speakers when they start doing their tech rolls) but they enjoy the fact that they are a bit above the rest.

To be honest, our group came to the realization that it is too easy to create caricatures of people.   When the first couple characters coming out the basic life path build system were either rivaling Clan True Borne genetic engineered freak pilots without needing the cybernetics or can crack the secrets of the HPG or push the limits of owning entire worlds (Btw, they really need to tell us what Ranks 10+ get you with property...) or systems if they actually took nobility with the ability to buy and sell entire mech companies every year (would be battalions but the chart stops at rank 10 for some reason), all at starting.   It is at that point that you realize that you are not playing in any way, shape, or form a normal person...  average joe schmo is never going to match what a player can do.

Once you accept that the characters coming out the ATOW RPG are hero tier characters capable of jury rigging the repairs to a fusion reactor using two damaged engine manifolds off a '85 Mustang and some duct tape on a moderate dice roll or making that Marauder leg work in a pinch using some spare parts of a locust and a pair of dead wasps...   you relax and let the players go on their adventures in the universe being the next big Hanse or Kell or Wolf or (Insert 'Fiat' powered god character here).

Then again, perhaps I have players who are too used to breaking point buy systems...  need to investigate that.

[Talz]

ATOW can clearly be powergamed, particularly by a group effort.  If that's what people want to play though I see no problem with that and if that's not the type of campaign the group wants to play munchiness can be greatly limited by the using the lifepath system and some initial skill & trait caps.

Sure, they will breeze through general maintenance like it is nothing... because it is generally nothing.  If most groups operate like my players do, each character, no matter the concept, has at least one specialized tech skill they bring to the table.   They debate it out.   They might not be the best but they try to be able to help out the specialist tech player of the group, to be that member's assistants when push comes to shove.

Sure, they know that they have dedicated techs back at base or on the dropship but out in the field, inevitable cut off from supplies and assistance or trying to patch damage after a hard fought drive on a front and only having a few hours at best to make repairs... then they are more than happy to have those numbers cranked so high to actually make it possible.

Sure, they look and sound like an A-Team build montage (Infact, I usually have the theme cued up on the speakers when they start doing their tech rolls) but they enjoy the fact that they are a bit above the rest.

This is a bit of powergaming but it's the kind I generally like, with plenty of room for some fun and creative teamwork.