Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor  (Read 19784 times)

sillybrit

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Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« on: 22 December 2011, 11:30:50 »
     Perhaps an unusual article to include in a series that effectively promotes Battle Armor, but in my discussions with jymset we felt it would be an interesting area to explore. Obviously the question of "How to kill Battle Armor?" can be viewed as only needing the answer of "Duh, hit them with big guns. Duh!" However, that's a rather simple response, with some weapons - or munitions - being much better than others, plus there are some non-weapon options that can be used in certain circumstances, either destroying the Battle Armor or making it easier for them to be defeated.

     Big Guns: We'll discuss the most obvious and simplest method first. All you have to do is shoot the Battle Armor with a weapon that can destroy a suit with a single hit, so that you don't have to worry about the damage being spread across the Battle Armor squad without actually destroying anything. For example, if targeting an undamaged Inner Sphere Standard, which can withstand a total of 10 points of damage, you can use a PPC, AC10, AC20, Gauss Rifle, etc. When combined with lighter weapons, always use those that can one-shot kill first, with the order of other weapons governed by the methods detailed below. Ideally, you want to use as accurate an attack as possible to overcome any Target Movement Modifiers, stealth capabilities or cover that the Battle Armor may be exploiting, so C3 with a nearby spotter, Pulse Weapons, Targeting Computers, etc can all be of great assistance here. Equally, if at all possible, you want to try to attack at a range that leaves the Battle Armor unable to respond, or greatly reduces the accuracy of their return fire.

     Scattershot: This approach is used when you don't have weaponry that can kill Battle Armor with a single hit, or lack the numbers to destroy the entire squad in a single Turn, but still have other weapons available. Generally, you first want to use weapons that will destroy the Battle Armor with the fewest hits, since that greatly increases the chance of a kill in a single Turn, instead of just spreading the damage around. For example, consider two squads of IS Standards, one attacked with two Medium Lasers and the other with four Small Lasers, the minimum number of each weapon to destroy a pristine suit. Assuming trooper #1 in the four-man squad is struck with the first laser hit, then in the case of the Medium Lasers there is a 25% chance of striking the same suit with the second hit and thus destroying it, but in the case of the Small Lasers, there is only about a 1.5% chance that all three additional laser hits will strike trooper #1. As the squad gets smaller, there is a greater chance that all hits will randomly strike the same suit. If the above squads had already been reduced to three Battle Armor each, the two Medium Lasers would have a 33% chance of killing another suit in one Turn, while the four Small Lasers would have just over a 3.6% chance of a kill, and so on as the squad suffers even more losses. As per the Big Guns method, you ideally want to use accuracy enhancements and exploit any range advantages, but typically lighter weapons are shorter ranged and so the latter may be harder to achieve.

     Buck And Ball: This is the exception to the Scattershot method. If you have weapons that are just a point or two short of one-shot kill capability, and you also have weaponry that can inflict those few points, it is more worthwhile to first apply your lighter weaponry, thereby reducing as many suits as possible below this fatal threshold. This way you minimize the amount of wasted damage. For example, an Inner Sphere Standard squad is hit by a Streak 4 and a pair of Large Lasers. If the guidelines of the Scattershot method are used, with the lasers hitting first, this can potentially waste 6 points of damage if both happened to strike the same suit, while the missiles will have zero chance of destroying a second suit. If the missiles are instead applied first, hopefully resulting in 2 damage to every suit, it is likely than one or two kills will be achieved once the laser damage is applied, with little or no wasted damage. Yet again, you ideally want to use accuracy enhancements and exploit any range advantages.

     Special Delivery: There are a couple of specialist munitions that can change the function of certain weapons. One is the Experimental Follow-The-Leader missile that can allow LRM launchers to act as a non-Cluster weapon, hitting one suit with the entire salvo at the expense of reduced accuracy. How you use this weapon and ammunition combination depends upon the average damage compared to the durability of the target. An LRM5 salvo would still likely need to apply the Scattershot or Buck And Ball guidelines, while a LRM20 salvo can substitute as a Big Gun against many Battle Armor designs. Another Experimental missile option, the Tandem-Charge SRM, has a 1 in 6 change of killing a Battle Armor trooper with every hit. This one-shot potential means that the missile salvo should also be treated as a Big Gun.

     As noted above, Battle Armor squads can be a difficult target. Wise players will try to keep their squads in cover, while generating as high a Target Movement Modifier as possible. In addition, all Battle Armor get an extra +1 hit penalty as a bonus against attacks by non-infantry, plus many designs incorporate Stealth or Mimetic technology to make them harder to hit. There's one type of attack that can get around those problems, the Area Attack. Not only do some Area Attacks gain the immobile target accuracy bonus, they also inflict damage to every suit in the squad, so that a single hit can be enough to destroy the entire unit.

     Bombs Away!: The only Area Attack available for Tournament games prior to 3080, this can be a powerful tool to remove Battle Armor, even if it also typically results in the loss of the bomber. The near suicidal nature of air-to-ground attacks means that many players prefer to assign cheap, disposable aircraft for this role, such as the Boeing Jump Bomber. The ordnance most commonly used are the High Explosive and Cluster bombs, although Laser Guided munitions are also available, and Tactical Operations added an Inferno option, which will be discussed below. HE bombs offer the most damage, but the wider area of effect of Cluster bombs can make up for their lower impact, not only allowing for a near miss to still inflict damage, but also potentially harming far more targets. A single HE bomb, or two Cluster bombs, can destroy an entire squad of Inner Sphere Standards, or two squads if they happen to be sharing the effected hex, and a pair of HE bomb hits are guaranteed to kill any Battle Armor squad.

     Kings Of The Battlefield: Artillery and Artillery Cannon are non-Tournament weapons that inflict an Area Attack with every round. Off-board Artillery can be somewhat hit and miss (sorry!) due to the delay before the round impacts, which could result in the target moving away, plus the possibility of scatter. It's not unknown for a round to scatter straight onto some poor unfortunate that wasn't even the target and I've even lost my own Battle Armor due to such a friendly fire incident, which can be a little annoying when it happens. Direct-fire Artillery is a terrifying prospect for Battle Armor; there's no delay before impact and accuracy is much improved, with less scatter if the shot does miss. Like direct-fire Artillery, Artillery Cannon do not scatter as much and so are typically more predictable, and they're becoming more popular in the post-3079 battlefield, when they become Advanced instead of Experimental, as per Technical Readout: Prototypes (page 206). The big killers with these two classes of weapon are of course the Long Tom versions, due to their ability to automatically destroy even the most heavily armor Assault suits, but even Snipers and Sniper Cannon will one-shot kill many Battle Armor squads, although the lowly Thumper will require a couple of hits. Although lacking a "Cannon" variant, the Arrow-IV can be just as lethal as the Long Tom, whether using explosive rounds, or the new Inferno-IV, which will be covered below.

     Missiles Causing Mayhem: My personal favorite for hunting Battle Armor is LRM20-armed units loaded with Mine Clearance Munitions. Although intended for clearing minefields as their name suggests, MCMs are also useful to deal with fast moving targets or hard-to-hit, dispersed targets such as Battle Armor. Like other Area Effect weapons, MCMs attack the whole hex and not just the target, inflicting one quarter the hits of the launching missile system, rounded down on every unit in the targeted hex. This means that a LRM20 will strike each unit in the impact hex with 5 missiles, while a SRM4 or SRM6 will get a single hit, resulting in 5 and 2 damage per target respectively. As per other Area Effect attacks, this damage is applied to every suit, so just two LRM20 launchers can destroy an entire Inner Sphere Standard squad at ranges up to 21 hexes, with excellent accuracy that far exceeds direct fire weapons at such ranges.

     Even a lowly Archer ARc-2R can be a fearsome opponent for Battle Armor on the battlefields of the Jihad or later, although many players prefer to use the even cheaper LRM Carrier. Although the LRM20 is the most efficient LRM launcher with respect to damage per tube when using MCMs, due to the lack of damage lost due to rounding, some players prefer to use the same mass to install five LRM5s instead. This allows a degree of dial-a-yield, to avoid overkill, such as in the case of an Infiltrator Mk II squad, which would need 2 LRM20 salvos, using 40 missiles to inflict 10 damage, whereas 6 LRM5s could use 30 missiles to inflict 6 damage. As an aside, while not Battle Armor related, the LRM5 option does mean more chances for criticals when using MCMs to bring down the otherwise hard-to-hit high-speed 'Mechs and vehicles, like Fire Moths and Savannah Masters.


     Death From Above: No, not some clumsy great lump of 'Mech falling from the sky in a barely controlled crash, but the humble 'Mech Mortar. When firing Airburst, these inflict an Area Effect attack that causes one point of damage per shell, with up to 8 points for the largest model. For the Clans, this is the only way to get a weapon with an effect similar to Mine Clearance Missiles, and their lightweight Mortars allow for multiple weapons to be installed even in 'Mechs and vehicles with limited weapon payloads. The Anti-Personnel mortar shell lacks the Area Effect of the Airburst, but it does attack the hex, and thus gets the accuracy boost for attacking an immobile target. This odd situation may possibly be subject to errata at some point, and players may disagree on its use, so for anti-Battle Armor attacks you may wish to stick to Airbursts.

     Bombing is not the only way that aerospace units can devastate ground troops, although as discussed under the Bombs Away! method above, these attacks can be just as fatal for the attacking aircraft. Unfortunately, infantry are particularly vulnerable to aircraft, and that allows many designs the luxury of repeated Strafing and Strike attacks.

     Puff The Magic Dragon: The majority of infantry are incapable of defending themselves from air attack. Only those units equipped with one of the two AA Weapons available as infantry Support weapons allow infantry to attack airborne aerospace units, and of those two only the weaker version is available to Battle Armor equipped with Armored Gloves. Furthermore, this is only available if using the optional rules that allow Battle Armor to base their Anti-Personnel attacks on the actual weapon used rather than the default Auto-Rifle. As if all that isn't bad enough, the Mk 1 Light AA only inflicts 0.11 damage, so the player would have to roll high on the Cluster Hits Table to deal any damage when using the weapon to attack aircraft, with anything less than five hits being ineffective, which means that there's no hope for the standard Inner Sphere squad of four. Unless friendly units that can defend against aircraft are available and in range, enemy aerospace forces are free to attack until they run out of targets. The Battle Armor can make life as difficult as possible for the attacking pilots by generating high hit penalties, but this can sometimes trap them in a limited area if there is too much clear terrain to cross before they can once more reach cover.

     Incendiary attacks have always been feared by troops, but especially all forms of infantry, including Battle Armor. Note that Clan suits that are equipped with Fire Resistant armor, such as the infamous Salamander, are immune to this form of attack. In addition, numerous heat inducing weapons, such as Plasma Rifles and Cannon, Flamers, infantry Flamers and Incendiary LRMs do not have the same effect as noted below.

     Burn Baby Burn: There is a horribly efficient way to destroy Battle Armor instead of simply inflicting enough damage points and that's the Inferno SRM and similar attacks, such as ammo-using Flamers and Fluid Guns using Inferno Fuel Ammo, Inferno Mines (including Thunder LRM-delivered minefields), Inferno Bombs, Incendiary Grenades and Inferno-IV missiles. All but the Inferno SRM, Flamers and Fluid Guns are actually Area Effect attacks, and depending upon the exact weapon used, they might not be as effective when used alone. When a Battle Armor squad is attacked with Inferno SRMs, the hits are accumulated, and then for every three Infernos that struck you destroy one randomly determined suit. This makes Infernos particularly powerful against Battle Armor, since it eliminates the worry about random allocation of individual hits and it enables missiles that would only otherwise inflict just 6 points of damage if using non-Inferno warheads to kill Battle Armor with up to 18 points of armor.

     With the Area Effect weapons, they will inflict one or more Inferno hits to each individual suit. Inferno-IV missiles and Inferno Bombs are the most powerful, with every unit effectively struck by five Infernos, which will kill every suit immediately. Inferno minefields inflict the effect of a single Inferno on each suit for every 2 points of minefield strength, so even a mere six point minefield can destroy an entire squad. Incendiary Grenades inflict only a single Inferno hit on each squad, but when combined with an Inferno SRM attack, it does mean that only two missiles need to be allocated to each suit to finish the kill. Note that Vehicular Grenade Launchers become Tournament legal in 3080, as per Technical Readout: Prototypes page 207, whereas the other Area Effect options all remain Advanced. Given the characteristics of Inferno attacks, you should treat them as Big Guns when combined with lighter weaponry.


     Unfortunately - or fortunately, depending upon your point of view - Battle Armor cannot be the target for many physical attacks, although I have played in games that house ruled the ability of vehicles to Charge infantry.

     Tossing The Dwarf: Tactical Operations (page 97-98) introduced the wonderful advanced rules that allow 'Mechs to pick up and even throw enemy Battle Armor. Whenever a hostile Battle Armor squad is subjected to a successful attempt to pick up a suit, this results in the squad being split into two separate squads, with the victim suit being counted as a squad of one, while the parent squad is reduced by one. Splitting up the Battle Armor this way makes them more vulnerable to weapons that cannot one-shot kill, since there is a greater likelihood that multiple hits will randomly concentrate on a single suit. Note that a 'Mech with two working hands could attempt to pick up two suits, splitting the targeted squad into three individual squads. An even more enjoyable potential exists for the Mechwarrior, since the picked up suit can then be thrown, even adding insult to injury by throwing the Battle Armor at its original squad. Fun!

     Stomp The Yard: Okay, so you're a Mechwarrior who gets into the unfortunately situation of suffering a Leg Attack without any nearby friendly troops to gun them down before they manage to hamstring your 'Mech. Most units lack B-Pods and M-Pods to give their intended attackers a little loving before the Battle Claws dig in, so the only option is to get some payback courtesy of putting your foot down. It's not particularly accurate and like any Kick attack it risks a fall if you miss, but if you do connect then most 'Mechs will destroy one of the Battle Armor.

     Although there's not much that can be done about Leg Attacks once the Battle Armor gets in range to conduct such an assault, other than getting nearby friendly troops to shoot at the suits or for the intended victim to attempt a stomp, there are a number of options to defeat or at least interfere with Swarming Battle Armor.

     Get Them Off Me!: I won't repeat most of the details of the Total War rules (pages 221-222), but for this section it's worth briefly mentioning the most common methods to defeat Swarming Battle Armor, at least to put the following ideas into context. Jump-capable units, both 'Mechs and vehicles, have the easiest time, being able to attempt to shake off the Battle Armor just by jumping. 'Mechs with working arms can try to brush off their attackers, but they risk harming themselves and there are limits whether this can be done based upon what attacks the 'Mech has made. Another option for 'Mechs is to drop to the ground, whether falling or intentionally going prone, but this again risks damaging the 'Mech itself, and can even injure the pilot. Vehicles can drive erratically in an attempt to dislodge the suits, with no risk of damage unless it skids or sideslips into danger. Friendly Battle Armor can also climb aboard a 'Mech or vehicle being Swarmed to fight off the attackers, but unless they have Magnetic Clamps, they can only assist Omni-units in this manner.

     Bathtime!: Although the effect of water on Swarming Battle Armor is mentioned in the rules, it's such an effective method that it bears discussion here. If you're running a 'Mech that gets Swarmed and you have a body of Depth 2+ water nearby, you actually have a quick and simple way of removing your unwanted parasites before they can harm you. The Turn after the Battle Armor first Swarm your 'Mech, just move into the Depth 2+ water, which will instantly destroy them before they get a chance to damage you. In areas where you only have Depth 1 water, you'll have to fall prone after entering the water to ensure you dunk the Battle Armor below the waterline. Obviously, entering water does risk falls and/or flooding a compartment, so this is very much a situational method rather than one that you should always exploit.

     Down With The Sinking Ship: If you're running a hovercraft or amphibious vehicle that you know has little or no chance of surviving the attack, then when Swarmed you can again just enter or move over water, in this case even Depth 1+ will do.  In the somewhat unusual circumstances where you're actually running a naval vessel that gets Swarmed - perhaps you got too close to the shore and an enemy Battle Armor squad jumped aboard - then obviously you can just move into the middle of the body of water to best utilize this method. If or when the Swarming Battle Armor succeed in their attack and destroy the vehicle, that will result in it sinking, thus potentially drowning the Battle Armor. In the games that I've played, the Naval Carrier rules for infantry (Total War page 224) were used to determine whether Jumping or VTOL Battle Armor get a chance to escape before being taken down with the wreck, but some may prefer to simply declare the Battle Armor dead.

     Barbecuing: A less common variation of the vehicular version of drowning Swarming Battle Armor, this one also applies to 'Mechs as well. If you have a situation where you know that the Swarm attack is likely to destroy the unit, then you simply enter any available lava hexes. This obviously does sacrifice the Swarmed unit and for this reason it's considered by some to be a questionable tactic given that troops shouldn't generally be willing to suicide this way. Again, in the games I've played where this has occurred, the Naval Carrier rules for infantry were adapted to possibly allow the Battle Armor a chance to avoid the fate of their intended victim. Lava hexes aren't common - in truth, it'd probably be fairer to say that they're rarely available - but it's worthwhile keeping this option in mind on the rare occasion the opportunity presents itself.

     Kidnapping: Another variation of the vehicle version of drowning Swarming Battle Armor, albeit one that's more commonly used and that doesn't necessarily destroy the suits, even if it may result in what could be considered a mission kill. In this case, it doesn't matter whether you expect the Swarmed unit to be destroyed or not, what you're doing is moving the Battle Armor to a location that will leave them compromised or vulnerable in some way after they destroy their victim or chose to jump off. This can be simply getting close enough to friendly Battle Armor so that they can more easily assist in the removal of the attackers, or close enough to other friendly units that they can easily destroy the Swarming Battle Armor afterwards. Alternatively, it can be a way to remove the Swarming unit from the battle, preventing them from having little or any effect on the remainder of the fight. I've used 'Mechs and vehicles to dump Battle Armor in an isolated part of the map, that will take them many Turns to travel back to the battle, sometimes even trapping them entirely, such as leaving ground-only suits on the far side of rivers or other terrain they cannot cross. Even jump-capable suits can be trapped in this way with certain terrain, such as being stuck behind a line of steep hills that're taller than the suits' jump capability.

     Battle Armor can also be neatly countered by other infantry, both conventional and Battle Armor troops. At the very least, using infantry removes the +1 hit penalty suffered by all non-infantry forces when attacking Battle Armor.

     David And Goliath: Although Battle Armor was intended to replace conventional infantry, at least in the ranks of the Clans, the lowly PBI can actually be a dangerous hunter of its armored brethren. Uniquely, conventional infantry are unaffected by Stealth armor, potentially offering the most accurate direct-fire attacks against Stealth-equipped Battle Armor. Basing the main firepower upon hard hitting rifles such as the M42B and Mauser IIC, ideal secondary weapon options are SRM Launchers firing Infernos, which allow even Jump Infantry Platoons to kill an entire four-suit squad in one hit, and the heavier Support weapons that can outrange all but LRM-equipped Battle Armor. I also favor Jump Infantry armed with sniper rifles as their secondary weapon, providing a 9 hex range attack and no reduction in mobility, unlike the Support weapon options. Combining these offensive capability with the Stealth effect of IR Sneak Suits from Tactical Operations, which does affect Battle Armor, and you have a unit that can badly hurt most Battle Armor designs. Tactical Operations also introduced Field Guns and Field Artillery, presenting the possibility of Mechanized Platoons armed with Long Tom Artillery or Cannon, or even fourteen Magshot Gauss Rifles, while a Clan Mechanized Star could replace the latter with a dozen AP Gauss Rifles.

     Poacher Turned Gamekeeper: Although using Battle Armor to confront Battle Armor can easily result in a zero-sum game, certain designs can be far more effective, whether against most other designs or specific types. In general, the hunter needs speed so that it can catch its target and dictate the range once it does; long-range weaponry that can inflict as much damage as possible, with deep magazines if primarily missile armed; and good defenses, that can be a combination of high armor rating, Stealth or Mimetic armor, and/or ECM if using the Ghost Targets capability from Tactical Operations. There are situational exceptions to those guidelines, such as a fast suit confronting a slow suit can afford to use short range armament due to its ability to rapidly close the range in an attempt to overwhelm the target before the attackers suffer fatal damage.

     To show some examples, many designs can be equipped with Inferno missiles, and even a four-suit squad of the heavily armored Ravager can potentially be taken down for no losses by an Achileus squad equipped with a mere SRM1 launcher, although it'd take four Turns to do it, while the Grenadier Hunter-Killer has the capability to kill an entire squad in just one Turn. The Infiltrator MK II's combination of Stealth, ECM, 90m jump capability and Magshot can be a particular dangerous foe for many Battle Armor designs, and once the Elemental gets the option of the AP Gauss Rifle, that venerable suit can be brutal. In the right circumstances, the Corona is also incredibly effective due to its range, accuracy and damage, although its speed typically makes it a defensive suit and its armor puts it in just as much danger against some units. Likewise, a Sylph point can wipe out many Battle Armor units in a single Turn using its one bomb attack, although this typically requires them to catch the target unawares or to be able to attack before they suffer too many losses themselves.


     Rounding out the discussion, there are some miscellaneous techniques that can help defeat Battle Armor, even though they don't inflict any damage.

     Baiting The Trap: This is a somewhat risky technique used by 'Mechs that have suffered a Leg Attack or otherwise have enemy Battle Armor nearby. It can be a good option for 'Mechs that cannot outrun the Battle Armor for some reason, but have nearby friendly troops that can come to their assistance. Instead of attempting to run, the 'Mech just stands still and accepts the risk, or - if the 'Mech is fast enough and you feel like taking the gamble - run in a circle so that you still achieve a high Target Movement Modifier while ending back where you started. For many Battle Armor designs, this presents them with two options, both with downsides. First, they could move away to generate a Target Movement Modifier of their own and perhaps go for cover, but this will still generally leave them at short range for the 'Mech they'd just attacked and of course means that they lose the opportunity for another Anti-'Mech attack. second, they could stay in the same hex as the 'Mech to allow for an Anti-'Mech attack or hide from the subject 'Mech's guns, but they lose out on cover and Target Movement Modifiers, making them vulnerable to any units supporting the 'Mech. Battle Armor with 3+ ground movement can partially counter this by also running in a circle, thus generating a Target Movement Modifier, and suits equipped with Mimetic armor will no doubt welcome the chance to stand still and maximize their stealth capability.

     You Shall Not Pass: When fighting a force with large numbers of Battle Armor that only have ground MPs, while on a map with terrain features that cannot be crossed without jumping, flying or even the use of UMUs, try to drag the fight over to the other side of the terrain feature. This can either isolate the Battle Armor from the Schwerpunkt or force them to go through a predictable choke point. Examples are battlefields split by a river, whether bridged or not, or areas with extreme changes in elevation levels, such as a cliff face. Even if the enemy force has APCs or can use Mechanized Battle Armor tactics to transport the suits across the problem terrain, you're forcing the opponent to divert their attention and possibly disrupting their plans. This is a part of the Kidnapping method noted above, although that only works on individual Battle Armor units and requires their assistance in the form of a Swarm attack. Even without any blocking terrain, a fast force can keep the fight rapid and mobile, forcing the Battle Armor to continuously struggle to keep up, either delaying their entry into combat or allowing the possibility of catching them in the open away from cover.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #1 on: 22 December 2011, 11:48:37 »
Nice read.
As a combined arms player, I love getting down an dirty with infantry including battle armor.
it also means I need to know how to kill them, both to avoid those problems, and in case my opponents field it.
I already knew about most of those options, but I never thought of using mine clearance missiles.  thanks for opening my eyes about them, I like to keep a ton in the Ajax in case of mines, but now I can rest easy in the fact they can be used to kill as well.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #2 on: 22 December 2011, 13:02:52 »
Glad to see TC warheads got something against BA.  The advantages of PBI against stealth armoured BA are also eye-opening, along with ignoring BA's 'I'm tiny' bonus.  Useful counters for BA nastiness. 

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #3 on: 22 December 2011, 13:51:27 »
While the availability(and legality) will be rare, when you can do it, players should consider orbital strikes. (Stop looking at me like that.) A battleship's full broadsideis obviously wasteful overkill against BA in anything less than regimental concentrations(though against that many, I wouldn't use anything less), but any game where ortillery is actually an option will likely entail very small salvos to avoid greatly unbalancing the fight. A single NAC-10 or NPPC is hardly world-ending to a 'mech lance, but the large blast radius makes them deadly against suits, able to incinerate entire platoons of BA at once. If all you're getting in a game is one or two shots from a small NL battery or a few capital missiles(say, from a PWS), I'd consider pointing them at enemy BA instead of 'mechs, especially if the enemy is using concentrations of suits to hold a particular piece of terrain that you need to get through, but don't mind if it glows for a minute or two. NLs have the advatage of landing immediately, and with TAG assistance might actually hit the mapsheet you're aiming at(with the large blast radius, you don't need to be much more accurate than that). ANY battlesuit formation caught in such a strike is very likely to be dead, and even tougher suits that were merely on the fringes of the blast will be hurting enough to be easy fodder for ground fire. Capital and Sub-capital missiles are much more accurate(always good), but have the downside of taking much longer to arrive, 1d6 ground turns longer. This, combined with their smaller blast radius, means that they's good for spots where you know the BA won't be leaving the area soon(or can't), and you can afford to hang back for a bit and wait for the shots to land. If I'm in a big fight and I have a handful of Barracudas on hand, I'm throwing them at BA first, if the enemy has them.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #4 on: 22 December 2011, 15:17:28 »
 ;D

I've never tried deliberately gunning for Battle Armor with WarShips, but I like it! Call it righteous justice for the times where Battle Armor marines have captured a ship.

va_wanderer

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #5 on: 22 December 2011, 15:23:29 »
I'd also note the potential in using MML launchers to deliver munitions as well. MML-9 launchers "waste" a missile but can hit for 2-point AE with MC-LRM, 4-point AE with MC-SRM, or go with Inferno rounds up close for a more direct method of burning out a BA suit entirely.  A very flexible method of combating such units.

Welshman

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #6 on: 22 December 2011, 16:52:55 »
So back in the day, before I became a Catalyst Minion, I would have held onto this tip.

Stop, Drop and Roll is probably one of the best solutions to being swarmed. Especially for veteran or better pilots.

If you make the PSR, then the battle armor suffers 2D6 to a single suit.

If you fail the PSR, you still have a chance to damage the Battle Armor. Pg 222, Attacks Against Swarmed Units, is the key. When my 100 ton Atlas drops to the ground and lands on his center torso, the poor IS Standard suit clinging to the torso has a 2 in 6 chance of becoming an Atlas body pillow.

Yes, you take damage, but if you didn't dislodge them you would take even more damage.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #7 on: 22 December 2011, 18:21:46 »
Unfortunately due to the way the rules work, Mk. I equipped BA, so long as the squad originally had 5 or more men if half or more of the original squad hits it will damage an aircraft
The math (for squad size 5)
5*0.11=0.55 this rounds up to 1, which when divided by 5 yields 0.2 damage per trooper, three troopers hitting gives a damage of 0.6 when attacking, which rounds up to 1 again

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #8 on: 22 December 2011, 18:46:03 »
Yes, I had five-man Points/squads on my brain when writing that part, which is why I put five instead of three, it should have read something along the lines of saying at least three hitting, but only in a squad of at least five. Unfortunately, I mangled a lot of my original wording trying to get the article smaller. Given how the construction guide is turning into a monster, I perhaps shouldn't have worried so much. lol

SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #9 on: 22 December 2011, 19:38:01 »
The whole disposable weapons thing needs some beefing up, most of the weapons on option do LESS damage then standard options

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #10 on: 22 December 2011, 19:58:25 »
Unfortunately due to the way the rules work, Mk. I equipped BA, so long as the squad originally had 5 or more men if half or more of the original squad hits it will damage an aircraft
The math (for squad size 5)
5*0.11=0.55 this rounds up to 1, which when divided by 5 yields 0.2 damage per trooper, three troopers hitting gives a damage of 0.6 when attacking, which rounds up to 1 again
Ha ha, lucky for me my infantry deploy in 6 troop hexes rather than your silly 4 troop squads.
The whole disposable weapons thing needs some beefing up, most of the weapons on option do LESS damage then standard options
Well as mentioned, the light AA mk1 is good for giving an emergency anti-air attack if you want your main weaponry to be heavy hitting against ground, and inferno grenades can have their uses.  I do agree with you however.  My thought is that grenades should be AoE or something, or maybe be classified as a burst weapon so they do an additional 1d6 vs conventional infantry.  It might also be useful if they give us one shot versions of the infantry missiles.  Nothing says hello vehicles like a bunch of SRMs headed your way or the operational end of a corean far shot (though the latter is outdamaged by the dragonsbane)

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #11 on: 23 December 2011, 16:29:25 »
With regards to getting rid of Swarming BA- are deliberately entering a hex that's on fire or having allies shoot Inferno missiles or Plasma Cannons at the Swarm victim viable tactics?
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #12 on: 23 December 2011, 16:47:44 »
A burning hex is one that I've ended up being argued out of counting each time I tried it since TacOps came out, specifically because of the rule phrasing "any unit that ends its Movement Phase on the ground", because it was argued that the Swarming Battle Armor weren't on the ground, they were on the 'Mech/vehicle. I would just give up at that point and go look for another way to deal with the Swarmers, but your mileage may vary.

I suppose you could shoot, but it's risky, because 2/3rds of the attacks will hit the victim instead of the Battle Armor. And yes, I have seen a 'Mech headshot while trying to save it - at least that's what the shooting player claimed he was doing. Of course, with Infernos and Plasma Cannon there's no chance of such damage, although the possible overheating may be a major problem and a Swarmed vehicle crew is unlikely to thank you.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #13 on: 23 December 2011, 17:56:33 »
I specifically mentioned Infernos and Plasma Cannons because they don't inflict damage to mechs.

And I'd say that since mechs and non-VTOL vehicles are considered to be on the ground, anything that's climbing on them should be affected by fire hexes just as much as the mech/vehicle is.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #14 on: 23 December 2011, 19:26:40 »
That was my thinking, but the others thought otherwise, so I gave up lol. I suppose it's worth checking with TPTB, since the same would apply to Mechanized Battle Armor.

SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #15 on: 23 December 2011, 19:41:21 »
Burning forest Hexes, the flames will reach at least 2 hexes high so they could be used to clear BA of off even the upper part of a 'Mech, in general, I'd say that rule had more to do with airborne units ignoring the flames, as a guess, I'd say any unit that it not one level higher then the top of the Hex for line of sight purposes is affected

A. Lurker

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #16 on: 25 December 2011, 09:06:09 »
With regards to getting rid of Swarming BA- are deliberately entering a hex that's on fire or having allies shoot Inferno missiles or Plasma Cannons at the Swarm victim viable tactics?

You're technically not allowed to deliberately shoot at friendlies (check the definition of "target" on TW p. 42), and you can't target the swarming BA separately. So by the strict letter of the rules, directly attacking a swarmed target in hopes of catching some of the bugs crawling over it is actually illegal...though I suppose you could substitute a suitable area effect attack that 'only' targets the hex your allied unit happens to be in.

SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #17 on: 25 December 2011, 16:11:55 »
Friendly units are a valid target for Swarm-i missile, weather or not you want to use them in this case is another matter

Moonsword

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #18 on: 25 December 2011, 19:36:23 »
Friendly units are a valid target for Swarm-i missile, weather or not you want to use them in this case is another matter

They're a valid accidental target for missiles that miss.  You still can't deliberately target a friendly with them.

Isanova

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #19 on: 25 December 2011, 21:14:43 »
Drats!

There goes my dream of cowing the yokel militia into submission with my lit-inferno-gel covered CRG-1L Charger of terror  [drool]
Freeborn and proud~

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #20 on: 25 December 2011, 21:47:14 »
I'd allow it.

I figure anyone mental enough to voluntarily step into the cockpit of a CGR-1L is also mental enough to set his own mech on fire. :P
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SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #21 on: 25 December 2011, 23:13:51 »
The Hex your swarmed 'Mech is in is a valid target for friendly 'Mechs OTHER then the one in said hex, if it has C3 it's even range zero (0), Note: this does NOT mean they are in the same hex

Sami Jumppanen

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #22 on: 19 March 2012, 01:30:30 »
I may remember some rules wrong specialy the timing of certain actions but bear with me:

Now isn't that moving to the burning hex bit like that "Down with the sinking ship" -manouver? Basicaly you move to the burning hex and possibly even lay down your mech. Then on shooting phase enemy BAs do their thing and possibly destroy the mech (possibly not). Either way, after the close combat phase when the mech did the Drop-and-Roll -manouver, BAs should be on that hex. So in heat phase dice would be rolled if those suits are destroyed?

EDIT: Nope! That roll happens at the end of the movement phase...

LastChanceCav

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #23 on: 19 March 2012, 08:47:41 »
Does the "bathtime" strategy work against swarming BA equipped with UMUs, like an Undine?

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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #24 on: 19 March 2012, 09:25:26 »
Suits with UMUs can't Swarm, they can only perform Leg Attacks, and even then they have to be in Depth 1+ water.

va_wanderer

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #25 on: 19 March 2012, 09:27:36 »
Drats!

There goes my dream of cowing the yokel militia into submission with my lit-inferno-gel covered CRG-1L Charger of terror  [drool]

Since the thread's been reanimated...I vote for a version of the "Ninjas can't catch you if you're on fire" T-shirt...using a burning  Charger and Elementals.

BirdofPrey

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #26 on: 19 March 2012, 11:23:48 »
I thought suits with UMUs could swarm a fully submerged target.

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #27 on: 19 March 2012, 19:06:17 »
Nope. As per TM p167, Battle Armor Capabilties Table (and confirmed by current errata) suits with UMUs have no Swarm capability.

Although I do agree that it would make sense.

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #28 on: 19 March 2012, 20:19:48 »
That's a rule that doesn't make much sense. I don't have my rules with me now - a medium BA with 1/0 would be able to swarm, correct?

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Jellico

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #29 on: 19 March 2012, 21:50:26 »
Suits with UMUs can't Swarm, they can only perform Leg Attacks, and even then they have to be in Depth 1+ water.

Do UMUs override the inability of larger suits to perfrom Leg Attacks?

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #30 on: 19 March 2012, 22:02:19 »
How would you calculate  BA vs. BA in h2h combat?
or Conventional Infantry vs BA in h2h combat?
I know the latter would be a rare event to the extreme, but there is RL examples of desperate combat of the type.

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SCC

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #31 on: 19 March 2012, 23:00:11 »
Do UMUs override the inability of larger suits to perfrom Leg Attacks?
Pretty sure this doesn't violate rule 11
Quote
If battle armor meets multiple
lines on this table based on its weight class, body type and
other features (such as the use of UMUs), the most restrictive
qualifications apply of all relevant classes, types and features.
From Tech Manual, pg.167, DETERMINING ANTI-’MECH AND MECHANIZED BATTLE ARMOR CAPABILITIES
However the rules are very biased towards land based combat, so if fighting was occurring underwater and a BA squad was in the same hex as a 'Mech but one level higher and wanted to perform a leg attack things get interesting, to reach the legs they would need to expend at least 1MP, and simply staying in place would mean using the punch hit location table so a swarm attack (or at least it's hit location) sounds like a better idea

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - How To Kill Battle Armor
« Reply #32 on: 19 March 2012, 23:56:02 »
That's a rule that doesn't make much sense. I don't have my rules with me now - a medium BA with 1/0 would be able to swarm, correct?

Agreed, and yes, a bipedal Medium suit with just 1 ground MP can Swarm (and do Leg Attacks), assuming that it has the appropriate manipulators.

Do UMUs override the inability of larger suits to perfrom Leg Attacks?

As SCC said, Heavies and Assaults can't do any Anti-'Mech attacks, no matter what secondary motive system that they may have.

How would you calculate  BA vs. BA in h2h combat?
or Conventional Infantry vs BA in h2h combat?
I know the latter would be a rare event to the extreme, but there is RL examples of desperate combat of the type.

Under Total War, Battle Armor can only conduct melee attacks on Battle Armor (and conventional infantry), if they have Vibro-Claws, in which case they do one point of damage per Claw. For example, a Point of Afreets would do 10 points.

Likewise, conventional infantry cannot inflict melee damage on Battle Armor.