Deep Space Naval Base(s), viable or not?

[eriktheviking]

This is an idea I had and I am looking for thoughts on how viable it is.

A deep space, as in the black between stars, series of bases for warships. (This is an old idea I had that has regained life with my reading of Cannonshop's various stories, where the Lyran Commonwealth decides to create a professional navy.)

The idea is to create a base by using either an existing asteroid or building a space station.

The first question related to the above is size, the bare minimum would be the equivalent size of several replenishment ships, to achieve quantity as it should take fewer stocking trips from known naval depots for secrecy. Also, would it have to be large enough to tend to multiple vessels at once or only individual vessels which could slip away from their duties for underway replenishment? Is just supply or supply and maintenance?

The second is, how self-sufficient should it be? Think of the Sol Belters or Rock burrows in Kowloon versus real-life's Diego Garcia?

What should be onsite? Grav ring? Crops for the station and morale for visiting ships? Acting as a recharge station for visitors to decrease loitering time away from duties? As was pointed out, by Daryk, this would require hydrogen to run the fusion power plant(s). Would this hydrogen be created on location or shipped in?

As an aside, I had thought that none of the visiting vessels would have the location only a code to request a 'pilot' to bring them in.

Looking forward to reading anyone's ideas.

Thanks

Erik

[Daryk]

If you're truly in the deep black, you won't be generating any hydrogen from local sources.  Now, if you're doing it around a brown dwarf or some other uninhabitable system, that's definitely a possibility.  By framing it as a Naval Base, you also open up the possibility of regular supply runs.

[eriktheviking]

I was avoiding stars to reduce the chances of someone stumbling over a base. I understand it is unlikely given the number of stars, but it is still more likely than a true 'black' base.

The follow-up is whether the fuel is supplied refined or unrefined? Refined is easier and probably much cheaper overall but more vulnerable to disruption.

Also, not all of the bases have to be the same. Some could be 'black' and some 'brown'. I am arguing with myself about which base location would be better associated with which base function, e.g. supply and maintenance, where ships are more vulnerable should be in the black.

[AlphaMirage]

If you build it in the oort cloud or ice belt (Ruins of Gabriel style for ease of jumping) you can make hydrogen onsite from ice while keeping it concealed. The real question is why?

Is it a supply depot, repair yard, research station, or marshalling points?

Depending on the role the only deep space ones should be research station or marshalling points. Your supplies should probably be closer to where they are needed and distributed widely preferably on a moon.

Repair could be done by jump capable stations or ships equipped with unpressurized yards. Dropships can be repaired on moons or other ground stations.

Research stations can be in deep space and should probably be resupplied from covert drops. Although again there are plenty of dead worlds or badlands that could be better choices

[eriktheviking]

I am now envisioning it as part of the naval development during a cold war period, with sabotage and spying prevalent, which will probably go hot. It would provide safe harbors for ships to resupply and repair in the event of being surprised and could also end as covert bases behind enemy lines. Think of it as part of the GOTH (GOne To Hell) planning.

[AlphaMirage]

Well then consider they be listening posts located on the outskirts of your enemy's world's that serve as launch points for spy satellites or infiltrators carried by small craft to obscure their origin. Those would be small, mostly resupplied by covert drops from scouts to pick up Intel.

[eriktheviking]

I'm not sure that wouldn't be better served by dedicated spy ships, which can flee if detected.

[AlphaMirage]

True but a station does offer endurance that can't be matched by a jumpship. We also don't know how often the Great House fleets look for oort cloud objects or if they bother with long range astronomy in general

[idea weenie]

A spy ship can pop in a light-week out from the target system, wait there for six days recording signatures, then pop out.  By the time the light from their hull is reflected to sensors in-system they have already left a day earlier.

So it would be a mix:
- expendable spy satellites that are launched inward to get better scans and transmit to an out-system relay (they always have a self-destruct charge, and polite neighbors don't use nukes for this)
- KF drive ships that pop in to receive data at specific times
- deep space bases to keep prying eyes away from your covert operations HQs

The fun part is dropping off a few expendable spy satellites and have them drift in at random times near another House's base.  The fun part is that they transmit out-system but nobody is there to receive the signals.  Watch the base have a fun scramble trying to figure out where the receiving ship is or has gone.  That will give another spy satellite in the Oort cloud a good look at response times, unit preparedness, search procedures, etc.

[Argus1348]

I think the concept is too dangerous and unnecessary. Sorry.

Star systems are already larg enough to hide a base in them, especially if there is no settlement of any kind. And in case of an emergency you could still use dropships of shuttles to move to the jump point an wait or call (with mobile HPG) for help. So you could move from a hidden location to a not-so-hidden location.

If you are deep in space and get in trouble (lets say you need to abandon the station and no jumpship is present) you are trapped and likely die a unpleasant death.

And in deep space you will typically find nothing to generate something usefull from. Maybe there are some rocks or even a frozen planet thrown out of his original orbit, in deep space. But how to locate that?

Of course simple rock contains everything that a human needs: all elements, air, water. Theoretically it would be possible to live from rock.

[Daryk]

Don't underestimate what you can find in space...  ^-^

[Frabby]

There are a couple of deep space stations mentioned in canon. But the same purpose is largely served by secret bases (both space stations and planetary facilities) in abandoned, dead or supposedly uncolonized systems.

[Argus1348]

There are a couple of deep space stations mentioned in canon. But the same purpose is largely served by secret bases (both space stations and planetary facilities) in abandoned, dead or supposedly uncolonized systems.

Really? Haven´t read about deep space stations. Maybe there are examples on sarna.net?

Would'nt doubt that anyway. Canon also contains some weird stuff like insane AI's, sentient aliens...

But i would also put up another problem with deep space stations, and that is possibly navigation. Deep space means you are outside of any star system, no fixed point, and all the stars are moving. Without that you perhaps won't find your station again. And even if you say it is possible to calculate all that and find the station again (which of course ist still subject to gravity, at least from the center of the galaxy), then a small miscalculation would end a jump ship out in nowhere. In case of an emergency the ship is doomed there. It's like an artillery shot: small change  can lead to big miss.

So i would place the station in an uninhabited system, hidden somewhere where nobody looks, because there are just worthless rocks.

[DOC_Agren]

I can see a use for it, as a emergency orbital refueling station and naval armory.  This becomes the ultimate fallback spot, whose existence is not common knowledge.

[Daryk]

There could be some interesting pure research facilities usefully located between stars too...  ^-^

[boilerman]

I don't remember if it's canon or not, Cray would know, but the jump cores are forged in deep space to avoid gravitational influences. At least I vaguely remember some thing to that effect.

[truetanker]

Ever heard of Yardships?

Now you have,,,

TT