A Dark Age TW-to-AS conversion example?

[Nerroth]

Oh, that was just more of a record sheet-related comment.


With the current set of conversion rules being what they are, one of the Hound's special abilities is FLK 1/1/1 (assuming I haven't messed up the conversion process). Would that ability be superseded (or removed) in the coming errata, or is it likely to remain in place?

[nckestrel]

That's not released at this time.

[Nerroth]

Understood.


So, would it be okay for me to post the conversion stats I've come up with for the Hound, to see how I've fared so far; or should I leave it be?

(I didn't want to turn this into a let's-convert-TRO:3145M thread, so I'm not looking to push things further than they ought to go at this point.)

[nckestrel]

Go for it.  Somebody might answer even if I dont.

[Nerroth]

Okay then.

Here is what I've got so far:

-----       
                           
HD-2F Hound

Type: BM 
Size: 3 
Move: 4/8"
Armour: 7
Structure: 6
S (+0): 3
M (+2): 3
L (+4): 2
OV: 0
PV: 14
Special: FLK (1/1/1), SRCH, SOA, SEAL, ES

-----

How is that?

[Alexander Knight]

That conversion is accurate.

[nckestrel]

That conversion is accurate.

I thought you might get to it before me :).

[Nerroth]

Hooray!


So, from an on-table perspective, how well do the differences between the Mad Dog Mk IV and Hound come through in QS/AS terms?

It seems that the Hound, while slower, is much sturdier internally, while the Mk IV has more special rules to play with (for now, at least).

[nckestrel]

The 10" Move versus 8" Move also makes the Mad Cat MK IV or Viltire Mk IV harder to hit.

The OV might also come in handy.  First two hits will do 8 damage (from medium range), leaving the Hound with 5 structure. The Vulture could then overheat to make the next shot destroy it outright.  Or if there is water around, it can get a free 1 extra damage each turn (water reduces heat by 1, so OV 1 has no negative effects).

[Nerroth]

I see. Seems that speed is life for the Mk IV; its agility helps to compensate for its lower amount of structure points, since the Hound has to actually hit before it can wear that F-L armour down far enough for it to matter.

Would you say that this kind of dynamic more or less lines up with the difference in performance one would expect to see between these same units in "classic" BT?

[OpacusVenatori]

I would like to ask why all the transports (BA specifically) that can carry squad of 4, doesn't have the transport ability. Y tried with the padion and with the lamprey, and none shows the transport ability.

[Medron Pryde]

Back when I was making my QS cards, I designed an excel sheet that I just punch the numbers into and it gives me the final numbers, that I typed into a blank card image that I designed using the BattleForce 3 templates as a base.  Hence why they say BattleForce on them rather than QuickStrike.  :)

An interesting thing that happened because of that, and since I was working off pre-errata stuff at the time, I ended up actually using the original "extended" range bracket on all of the cards.  The final version of QS we are working with now doesn't actually have a provision for extended range combat past long range on ground scale combat, only in AeroSpace combat.  But since I created mine based on the original rules, I actually enter in all of the extended range stuff, so Clan ERLLs and IS Light Gauss rifles actually get that data on my cards.

But having been the guy that makes those by hand, I have to say that using SSW to print them off is an awful nice way of doing it if you have java installed on your computer.  :)

[Savage Coyote]

I see. Seems that speed is life for the Mk IV; its agility helps to compensate for its lower amount of structure points, since the Hound has to actually hit before it can wear that F-L armour down far enough for it to matter.

Would you say that this kind of dynamic more or less lines up with the difference in performance one would expect to see between these same units in "classic" BT?

For the most part.  There are some "jewels" out there in both versions of the game that are duds on the other side.  I would point to single weapon wonders that scare people (HPPC/cERPPC/Gauss/HGR carriers) in "classic" battletech but end up doing 2 damage across the board and don't have that much bite as one, while a Linebacker D, which can be nasty in the right hands, is suddenly tossing 7 damage in the short and medium brackets with no overheating.  In classic terms, that Linebackers probably going to crit you to death before he blows you away, but in QS/AS it's knocking huge holes out of the opposition for the same price as the Vulture Mk IV.

That said, I think the Hound's route tends to be the best for QS/AS; if you are still standing when the dust cleared, you win. 

[Nerroth]

But having been the guy that makes those by hand, I have to say that using SSW to print them off is an awful nice way of doing it if you have java installed on your computer.  :)

At the risk of asking another stupid question, is there a way to print a unit card based on a newly-created 'mech in SSW?

SSW.jar only seems to allow record sheets to be printed, while SQP.jar only allows pre-set units to be selected.

For the most part.  There are some "jewels" out there in both versions of the game that are duds on the other side.  I would point to single weapon wonders that scare people (HPPC/cERPPC/Gauss/HGR carriers) in "classic" battletech but end up doing 2 damage across the board and don't have that much bite as one, while a Linebacker D, which can be nasty in the right hands, is suddenly tossing 7 damage in the short and medium brackets with no overheating.  In classic terms, that Linebackers probably going to crit you to death before he blows you away, but in QS/AS it's knocking huge holes out of the opposition for the same price as the Vulture Mk IV.

That said, I think the Hound's route tends to be the best for QS/AS; if you are still standing when the dust cleared, you win.

Sounds like the kind of difference you see in some other settings with different scales of game play; some tricks and tactics in SFB will get you killed in FC (or Starmada or ACtA:SF or SFSS), and vice versa.

I wonder; when the time comes for Alpha Strike to hit the shelves, should discussions for it stay in this sub-forum, or might it need to be moved to a new section (or, perhaps, given its own)?

[nckestrel]

Hmm. Looks like SSW got rid of a lot of print options.
Save the new unit, then load Force Balancer (either runing bfb.jar or there's an option to open Force Balancer in SSW under tools) and add the unit (and any other units you want cards for) and when you go to print options select BattleForce Sheets, but then change the dropdown to Quick-Strike cards.
If you have more questions about SSW, there's an SSW thread that more people familiar with SSW would be watching.

[Nerroth]

Yeah, it's still not working for me on this end; but at this point, I may just wait until you guys have the MUL
updated anyway.

(I'm waiting for the AS book to be printed, and even then I'd have to see if I'd be in a position to actually find a gaming group with whom I could use it.)

Thanks again for all of your help.

[fuzbuckle]

You can add units to SQP by updating the battleforce_stats.csv in the data directory of SSW. 

[Nerroth]

I tried entering the Hound stats manually into that file, but when I went into SQP and tried to go to the print preview, I got an eror saying "Could not load Hound HD-2F. The filename is most likely blank." Actually, it produces the same error even for units that were in the file already.

Is there a particular folder I'm supposed to have set up? (It doesn't seem to like the folder I created to store the .ssw file I created for the Hound.)


Also, where exactly is the SSW thread? I seem to be having trouble trying to search for it...

[Nerroth]

So, I got the StratOps PDF from DriveThru, and I've been trying to nibble away at some of the BattleForce/Quick-Strike rules therein.


When it comes to Dark Age units, I was thinking ahead a little, towards what will (hopefully) come along in TRO:3145 Republic of the Sphere; and what kind of conversion stats are already in place to support them. Specifically, I was thinking about the Ares-class Colossi.

At the moment, there is a sample superheavy on the MUL: the SHP-X4 "Omega" from Jihad: Final Reckoning. However, there was one aspect of the Unit Card I was wondering about, in terms of how it might one day affect the Colossi; the number of Structure points. Accorrding to the conversion table on page 359, a 100-ton Inner Sphere 'Mech with an XL engine has 4 Structure points, while the 150-ton "Omega" has 5. Is it stated anywhere where the value for the "Omega" is derived from, and is there a cut-off point where the tonnage of a Spheroid 'Mech with an XL engine has its Structure points go from 4 to 5?

Since the four known Colossi range from 125-135 tons in weight, the cut-off point might be relevant in terms of deciding how sturdy the Element is behind the armour. (Assuming there's any data suggesting what engine type is in each Ares Colossal at present; if not, there's no reason to assume they use XLs in the first place.)


As an aside, looking over the Flak (FLK X/X/X/X) rules left me wondering. Presumably, the Hound's LB-10X AC is the reason why SRW gave it the FLK(1/1/1) special rule. However, since the "Omega" has two LB-10Xs, should its current Unit Card on the MUL not have FLK(2/2/2) to represent this; or is there some other factor which takes this out of the equation?

[Alexander Knight]

FLK rounds normally.  A single LB-10X is 6.3 damage / 10 = 0.63 rounds to 1.  Twin LB-10Xs are 12.6 damage / 10 = 1.26 rounds to 1.

[Nerroth]

FLK rounds normally.  A single LB-10X is 6.3 damage / 10 = 0.63 rounds to 1.  Twin LB-10Xs are 12.6 damage / 10 = 1.26 rounds to 1.

So, in that case, should the "Omega" then end up getting a FLK(1/1/1) special rule, on top of what it already has listed on the current Unit Card?

[Alexander Knight]

So, in that case, should the "Omega" then end up getting a FLK(1/1/1) special rule, on top of what it already has listed on the current Unit Card?

Possibly.

[Nerroth]

Hmm.

To go back to the Dark Age, would the LB-5X AC of the Mad Dog/Vulture Mk IV Prime not qualify it for a Flak bonus, too? Or is the damage output from that weapon too low to warrant such an option?

[Alexander Knight]

Hmm.

To go back to the Dark Age, would the LB-5X AC of the Mad Dog/Vulture Mk IV Prime not qualify it for a Flak bonus, too? Or is the damage output from that weapon too low to warrant such an option?

A single LB-5X will not allow you to gain the FLK bonus.  Twin LB-5X will give you FLK(0/1/1).

[Nerroth]

So, I was looking at a couple of the 'Mechs in the preview PDF for TRO:3145 CC, and noticed one thing that doesn't seem to be covered in the current conversion rules. (If it is and I've just missed it, my apologies in advance.)

How does one take the Tian-zong's Endo-Composite internal structure into account? (SSW only offers standard and Endo-Steel options for Inner Sphere 'Mechs.)


I was able, however, to have a go at the Mortis. How does this example look?

-----

MS-1A Mortis

Type: BM 
Size: 3 
Move: 5j/10"j
Armour: 7
Structure: 3
S (+0): 2
M (+2): 3
L (+4): 2
OV: 0
PV: 17
Special: MEL, SRCH, SOA, SEAL, ES

-----

[Nerroth]

I wasn't expecting to be back in this thread so quickly, but I was able to have a look at the preview PDF for TRO:3145 DC.

This is an attempt at the Shiro as presented in that file. (I had to work out the hardened armour manually, since that system isn't in SSW.)

-----

SH-1V Shiro

Type: BM 
Size: 3 
Move: 5/10"
Armour: 8
Structure: 3
S (+0): 1
M (+2): 1
L (+4): 1
OV: 0
PV: 20
Special: MEL, ECM, SRCH, SOA, SEAL, ES, LRM 2/2/2, IF 2

-----

Did I get that one right? The upcoming missile errata notwithstanding.


EDIT: Adjusted to account for the Clan LRM-10s.

[Dropkick]

You should take a second look at SSW.  I was able to come up with hardened armor.  In the basic tab I set the rules to experimental, Eras to all eras, and tech to mixed.  I then clicked over to the armor tab and in the drop down menu for armor type was able to select hardened armor. 

Hope that helps

[Nerroth]

It does, thanks.

To clarify, do the LRM-10 (C) listings for the Shiro mean that they are Clan LRM-10s (and would count as mixed tech), or is there some other kind of launcher being used instead?

If so, that would adjust the LRM special to 2/2/2, according to SSW.

[Dropkick]

yes

[Nerroth]

Got it, thanks again.


It is interesting how the thresholds work in the conversion process. If the total number of BT-scale armour points (post-Hardened factor) was just two points higher, the Shiro would have 9 Armour points in this scale instead of 8.

Still, 8 isn't a bad number either, plus there's no penalty for using Hardened armour (since you can't run in this scale anyway) unless you count the cost markup.