Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[Giovanni Blasini]

But, ALTERNATIVELY, the second AI could be little more than a repository CPU for a previously lost leadership-skilled AutoMech, perhaps one that was salvaged from a shell blown apart ages ago, when the skies over Syberia were still filled with the ashes of recently-devastated humanity and the fires of the AutoMechs' human cities still smouldered. Over the decades and centuries since, its piloting and gunnery protocols have been overwritten with expanded tactical and strategic data--a wealth of knowledge from experience, poured in from the overflowing processors of the main pilot AI. Or perhaps this second pilot AI is like a backup storage for the main, edited by revisions the main AI--and any of its similarly-equipped predecessors--has accumulated through experience before transferring the second pilot AI to a new host. In THAT case, your second pilot could be a silent mentor, synchronized with the AutoMech's main CPU and crammed with knowledge beyond the host AutoMech's own "living" experiences, but able only to communicate effectively with the right host's primary CPU, rather than just any other AutoMech. In this case, your second pilot is more like a "Leadership Protocol" or a "Database of Leadership" or some such, that can be passed along in the event the primary AI is corrupted or destroyed. This last option, naturally, would be EXTREMELY rare indeed, perhaps even unique to just one special AutoMech!

- Herb

Now that is an idea I hadn't considered...and that I'm totally going to have to use now.

One other thought: while Syberia mostly runs at an equivalent level of late Star League technology, there are a couple of items they have that are comparable to later Inner Sphere developments, like the wide variety of melee weapons.  We'd also done conjecture on light autocannons and Thunderbolt missiles, since they're essentially slight variations on existing tech.  What would your thoughts be on the other PPC variants, though, specifically the light PPC and heavy PPC?  We already see the standard PPC, ER PPC and snub-nose PPC with Star League tech, and so I'm wondering if "like those, only bigger" or "like those only smaller" would be too much of a stretch for Syberian tech.

[Wrangler]

One other thought: while Syberia mostly runs at an equivalent level of late Star League technology, there are a couple of items they have that are comparable to later Inner Sphere developments, like the wide variety of melee weapons.  We'd also done conjecture on light autocannons and Thunderbolt missiles, since they're essentially slight variations on existing tech.  What would your thoughts be on the other PPC variants, though, specifically the light PPC and heavy PPC?  We already see the standard PPC, ER PPC and snub-nose PPC with Star League tech, and so I'm wondering if "like those, only bigger" or "like those only smaller" would be too much of a stretch for Syberian tech.

Isn't your Emergence story related to that ship coming here to Nebula California?  It was outdate stripped down Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser, leaving during the Amaris Coup, aka the end of the Star League Era.  Some tech could have survived the AutoMech wars after it arriving, thus you would have some source tech.  Such as the Heavy PPCs.  This is going by your own canon if Emergence is still a thing.

[Luciora]

Nobody can do it like a steam (astro)train.  Woo-woo!  Sssssteam power!

You really want to throw in Starlight Express now?

Sure. In a rather steam-punky kind of way.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

You can always build them with an industrial chassis if you're looking for the "older" version, I suppose, but otherwise, nah.

That'd work. :)

But just you wait. Just you waiiiit!

 >:D

Looking up the rules on Jet Boosters, the main hurdle is that it must be at least 10% of the engine's mass, so... hmmmm. It's sketchy, but if you put enough jump jets in your VTOLMech to meet that gear-to-engine-mass-ratio requirement, I could see successfully convincing a GM to let your VTOLMech achieve jet booster speeds--but only in VTOL mode. But in Mech mode, you'd have to explain which motive system you were using (Jump or VTOL) every time your Mech's feet left the ground, because the two movement types don't mix that way.

 >:D

 >:D  Reaching 10% of the Engine's mass in JJ shouldn't be too hard with a mech 40 tons or less and only in VTOL Mode works for me. :) Saying which motive type when jumping isn't a problem either. :)  Now to see if I can make a TF Airwolf.  >:D

Which may provide seating for an extra MechWarrior, but since the humans of Syberia went and died off...
We have some interesting possibilities here that might be the focus of a story, anyway: Your options for that second pilot are a human, or a second AI inside the AutoMech. In both cases, the unit would provide a non-stacking +2 Initiative modifier for their side thanks to having a dedicated "tactical mind" in play over and above the core AI's actual combat processing. But when we get into the weeds of how the meat vs. machine works, well, NOW it gets fun, because...

...If it's a human pilot, he acts as much like a Headmaster as you can imagine shy of being able to eject ad run around the field as a small armored unit (but you'd only get THAT with something like a Machina Domini interface suit anyway). The human MW can drive the AutoMech if it becomes disabled, much the way Chip did when he remote-puppeted Prowl in that G1 episode where his battle computers were off-lined. This makes an adventure in which a human can "hijack" an AutoMech much easier, as a potential AutoMech body-snatcher could just wait until the AutoMech is shutdown, sneak into its noggin', disable its core AI somehow, and drive the machine away like any ol' BattleMech. Unless and until the inert AutoMech comes on-line again, the human pilot can make use of all the AutoMech's functions, but not any of its programmed skills or personality, and if the AI DOES come on-line, and doesn't like the human trying to play it like that, well, the AI and the human may find themselves fighting to control the body, which the AI may have an advantage on only as long as the human doesn't want to hurt the AI's main CPU. (Remember that our Syberians can't be overridden remotely; for that, you'd need codes that died with the human Syberians centuries ago, and no AutoMech is able/willing to give them up.)

...If the second pilot is another AI, you have some FUN character options for that AutoMech, as the second pilot is potentially a fully realized Syberian AI unto itself--effectively making your AutoMech a dual-personality machine--which can be good or bad news. You could have two simultaneously active and communicative, but ultimately in-synch, AIs in one body--a Rack-n-Ruin kind of AutoMech--or you can have conflicting AIs in the body--which would result in something more like Animated Blitzwing.

But, ALTERNATIVELY, the second AI could be little more than a repository CPU for a previously lost leadership-skilled AutoMech, perhaps one that was salvaged from a shell blown apart ages ago, when the skies over Syberia were still filled with the ashes of recently-devastated humanity and the fires of the AutoMechs' human cities still smouldered. Over the decades and centuries since, its piloting and gunnery protocols have been overwritten with expanded tactical and strategic data--a wealth of knowledge from experience, poured in from the overflowing processors of the main pilot AI. Or perhaps this second pilot AI is like a backup storage for the main, edited by revisions the main AI--and any of its similarly-equipped predecessors--has accumulated through experience before transferring the second pilot AI to a new host. In THAT case, your second pilot could be a silent mentor, synchronized with the AutoMech's main CPU and crammed with knowledge beyond the host AutoMech's own "living" experiences, but able only to communicate effectively with the right host's primary CPU, rather than just any other AutoMech. In this case, your second pilot is more like a "Leadership Protocol" or a "Database of Leadership" or some such, that can be passed along in the event the primary AI is corrupted or destroyed. This last option, naturally, would be EXTREMELY rare indeed, perhaps even unique to just one special AutoMech!

- Herb

Sounds very cool. The storage depository would be like the Matrix of Leadership?

Now that is an idea I hadn't considered...and that I'm totally going to have to use now.

One other thought: while Syberia mostly runs at an equivalent level of late Star League technology, there are a couple of items they have that are comparable to later Inner Sphere developments, like the wide variety of melee weapons.  We'd also done conjecture on light autocannons and Thunderbolt missiles, since they're essentially slight variations on existing tech.  What would your thoughts be on the other PPC variants, though, specifically the light PPC and heavy PPC?  We already see the standard PPC, ER PPC and snub-nose PPC with Star League tech, and so I'm wondering if "like those, only bigger" or "like those only smaller" would be too much of a stretch for Syberian tech.

I've always thought that there should be a 1 ton, 1 crit, 2 damage, 2 heat, 18 range PPC based on the Infantry's Support PPC. It was originally like a PPC Field Gun and it's now it's own vehicle. Remove the vehicle part and you've got a 1 ton PPC.

I think we'd need to be careful about straying into Clan Tech. Not that I wouldn't mind Clan Tech AutoMechs or AutoMechs with more advanced IS tech but they shouldn't have them though without encountering them. I know we've made cases for things and we can make cases for more, like HVACs and MMLs, but at what point does SL research become someone else's? Much of Clan Tech was just them expanding on Star League Tech or continuing Star League Research. That would open the door to at least Clan Prototype Tech and at least a lot of IS Tech. Full Clan Tech is just another step further. Plus the Syberians don't have TriModal AutoMechs so they didn't have everything.

That all said, I'd be okay with it if they either had very limited production or they were the Syberian's version of Lostech. That or they the tech is just being introduced do to captured tech and possibly even personnel.

Nobody can do it like a steam (astro)train.  Woo-woo!  Sssssteam power!

You really want to throw in Starlight Express now?

 :)) Astrotrain wasn't the only steam locomotive. But he is the most notable.   There's also other steam powered TFs.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Hearts_of_Steel

[Wrangler]

Someone did Waspinator. (This is from Reddit)

[RifleMech]

Ooo...looks good. :thumbsup:  Thanks :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Isn't your Emergence story related to that ship coming here to Nebula California?  It was outdate stripped down Aegis Class Heavy Cruiser, leaving during the Amaris Coup, aka the end of the Star League Era.  Some tech could have survived the AutoMech wars after it arriving, thus you would have some source tech.  Such as the Heavy PPCs.  This is going by your own canon if Emergence is still a thing.

Sybil as an SDS-driven Aegis in "Emergence" is a reboot of earlier stories featuring the same character and others, including ones of Cannonshop's and Liam's_Ghost's.  She won't personally be heading anywhere near Syberia herself, but some references to what's going on there (including hints on how Groundwave ended up there) may be included.

[HABeas2]

Now that is an idea I hadn't considered...and that I'm totally going to have to use now.

Have funsies!

One other thought: while Syberia mostly runs at an equivalent level of late Star League technology, there are a couple of items they have that are comparable to later Inner Sphere developments, like the wide variety of melee weapons.  We'd also done conjecture on light autocannons and Thunderbolt missiles, since they're essentially slight variations on existing tech.  What would your thoughts be on the other PPC variants, though, specifically the light PPC and heavy PPC?  We already see the standard PPC, ER PPC and snub-nose PPC with Star League tech, and so I'm wondering if "like those, only bigger" or "like those only smaller" would be too much of a stretch for Syberian tech.

I'd not want to go TOO deeply down that route if it can be avoided; I mean, sure, the Syberian settlers were Terran Hegemony robotics geniuses and such from a never-identified corporate entity, who somehow developed a portable AI system better than Caspars within 40 years of their arrival to the system...but having them push BEYOND 2765 SLDF tech in the 100-110 years of their existence gets "iffy." Still, if they could pull off ER PPCs and Snubbies, Light and Heavy Peepers are not that far of a skip. My judgment on these would be "it's possible."

Nobody can do it like a steam (astro)train.  Woo-woo!  Sssssteam power!

You really want to throw in Starlight Express now?

No. Just... no. Nothing from RID or the other silly anime incarnations. I'm sticking to G1/Aligned, with some nods to Animated because I LOVED that series.

>:D  Reaching 10% of the Engine's mass in JJ shouldn't be too hard with a mech 40 tons or less and only in VTOL Mode works for me. :) Saying which motive type when jumping isn't a problem either. :)  Now to see if I can make a TF Airwolf.  >:D

Bleh.

Sounds very cool. The storage depository would be like the Matrix of Leadership?

The notion here is that it's not just a storage repository, but a second AI that's become so overloaded with knowledge and data that it's become functionally incapable of doing more than dispensing information to a host AI that does the actual work of operating the machine. If it's in synch, it works like a "higher" consciousness and thus much like the G1 interpretation of the Matrix. I would never allow more than one of these in any campaign. We can't have EVERYONE be an Optimus Prime, after all.

I think we'd need to be careful about straying into Clan Tech. Not that I wouldn't mind Clan Tech AutoMechs or AutoMechs with more advanced IS tech but they shouldn't have them though without encountering them. I know we've made cases for things and we can make cases for more, like HVACs and MMLs, but at what point does SL research become someone else's? Much of Clan Tech was just them expanding on Star League Tech or continuing Star League Research. That would open the door to at least Clan Prototype Tech and at least a lot of IS Tech. Full Clan Tech is just another step further. Plus the Syberians don't have TriModal AutoMechs so they didn't have everything.

See above. You appear to be sensing my concern now.

That all said, I'd be okay with it if they either had very limited production or they were the Syberian's version of Lostech. That or they the tech is just being introduced do to captured tech and possibly even personnel.

Remember also: the Syberian humans were completely wiped out. Use of WMDs is heavily implied or spelled out here. Likely targets might have included whole weapons production complexes and design centers. And the AutoMechs cannot innovate. What they have, in fact, is likely a step or two BACK from what their human masters achieved pre-extinction. And it's been centuries of constant conflict in their name, between armies that are probably already at their max resource and production rates. They've basically been fighting the Succession Wars for an extra century past the point the Inner Sphere was, and it's damned amazing they have any SLDF-level tech at all.

:)) Astrotrain wasn't the only steam locomotive. But he is the most notable.   There's also other steam powered TFs.

Sure, but... meh.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

Someone did Waspinator. (This is from Reddit)

needs a set of rotor blades coming off his back (for the VTOL equipment, which i figure would be a counter-rotating setup), and maybe some landing struts sticking off (to look like insect legs)

[Luciora]

Sorry, I saw the steam power comment, saw trains and the song just happened to be in my Playlist at the moment  ;D

[RifleMech]

Have funsies!

I'd not want to go TOO deeply down that route if it can be avoided; I mean, sure, the Syberian settlers were Terran Hegemony robotics geniuses and such from a never-identified corporate entity, who somehow developed a portable AI system better than Caspars within 40 years of their arrival to the system...but having them push BEYOND 2765 SLDF tech in the 100-110 years of their existence gets "iffy." Still, if they could pull off ER PPCs and Snubbies, Light and Heavy Peepers are not that far of a skip. My judgment on these would be "it's possible."

Hope to. :)

Cool!  :thumbsup:

No. Just... no. Nothing from RID or the other silly anime incarnations. I'm sticking to G1/Aligned, with some nods to Animated because I LOVED that series.

Bleh.

G1 was the best.

 :))

The notion here is that it's not just a storage repository, but a second AI that's become so overloaded with knowledge and data that it's become functionally incapable of doing more than dispensing information to a host AI that does the actual work of operating the machine. If it's in synch, it works like a "higher" consciousness and thus much like the G1 interpretation of the Matrix. I would never allow more than one of these in any campaign. We can't have EVERYONE be an Optimus Prime, after all.

Cool. Nope. There's only one Prime.

See above. You appear to be sensing my concern now.

I've understood it. It's just a question of how far things can go. More ammo types for the Narc Missile isn't much of a stretch. Streak LRMs might be a bit out of reach. After all, they didn't have everything or there'd be Trimodal AutoMechs. (Unless they did and they died an early death.) So at what point did the Human's R&D stop and how much was lost from that point. Did they get to early Clan Tech or did they get even further or not even that far?

Remember also: the Syberian humans were completely wiped out. Use of WMDs is heavily implied or spelled out here. Likely targets might have included whole weapons production complexes and design centers. And the AutoMechs cannot innovate. What they have, in fact, is likely a step or two BACK from what their human masters achieved pre-extinction. And it's been centuries of constant conflict in their name, between armies that are probably already at their max resource and production rates. They've basically been fighting the Succession Wars for an extra century past the point the Inner Sphere was, and it's damned amazing they have any SLDF-level tech at all.

Makes me wish we did have more pre Age of War Weapons. And while AutoMechs can't innovate, Humans who visit the visit Syberia can. It probably isn't likely but I could see it happening. They'd probably be visited by the Star Empire before more visitors from the IS or Clans arrive. Having a campaign that starts when Humans were still there and continuing to now could be fun.

Sure, but... meh.

- Herb

Meh? I suppose Scourge as a Blimp might be, although fun. Steam trains are fun though. The Seekers as steam powered biplanes and Shockwave as an steam powered ironclad warship are pretty cool. :)

needs a set of rotor blades coming off his back (for the VTOL equipment, which i figure would be a counter-rotating setup), and maybe some landing struts sticking off (to look like insect legs)

How's this?

[HABeas2]

I've understood it. It's just a question of how far things can go. More ammo types for the Narc Missile isn't much of a stretch. Streak LRMs might be a bit out of reach. After all, they didn't have everything or there'd be Trimodal AutoMechs. (Unless they did and they died an early death.) So at what point did the Human's R&D stop and how much was lost from that point. Did they get to early Clan Tech or did they get even further or not even that far?

Oh, they DEFINITELY DID NOT reach early Clan tech. Peak Star League-ish Inner Sphere-level gear was the limit, or the whole BattleTech universe wouldn't make any sense at all! ;)

Makes me wish we did have more pre Age of War Weapons. And while AutoMechs can't innovate, Humans who visit the visit Syberia can. It probably isn't likely but I could see it happening. They'd probably be visited by the Star Empire before more visitors from the IS or Clans arrive. Having a campaign that starts when Humans were still there and continuing to now could be fun.

Not as long as the Star Empire has no FTL they won't. Sublight interstellar wars are nigh impossible to plan and execute. But then again, yeah, it's even more unlikely that the Inner Sphere or Clans ever would even take an interest, let alone specifically go to this place. As far as they're concerned, the CNAZ doesn't even exist, and the ships lost in that region over the centuries are just drops in the bucket of how many others have been lost to the Deep Periphery in every direction.

Meh? I suppose Scourge as a Blimp might be, although fun. Steam trains are fun though. The Seekers as steam powered biplanes and Shockwave as an steam powered ironclad warship are pretty cool. :)

The trouble with Hearts of Steel, while it looked pretty interesting, was how it played fast and loose with the times. The Seekers were biplanes in the late 1800s, before powered flight even existed, so how were there forms even a disguise? And most of the ground forces had to be locomotives, making their presence far from rails a rather conspicuous sight. That their weapons also devolved into cannons of the period was a bit weird, and I know there were a lot of inconsistencies the comics had when dealing with those events--to the point where they ultimately created some new characters and said they were all mind-wiped to not remember everything. And yeah, Shockwave as a transforming ironclad was awesome.

Now, it should be pointed out that the rules given in Nebula California DO strictly limit engine choices to fusion and fuel cells, but there's no reason there can't be a steampunk aesthetic painted over the whole thing like a veneer. One just needs to get creative with it, and if you want more primitive crap, well, there was XTR: 1945...

needs a set of rotor blades coming off his back (for the VTOL equipment, which i figure would be a counter-rotating setup), and maybe some landing struts sticking off (to look like insect legs)

Then he's not Waspinator, but Wasp? (In TF Animated, Wasp was a rival of Bumblebee's who was wrongly imprisoned for espionage, went nuts, and was later hybridized into Waspinator by Black Arachnia. As Wasp, though, he was a green and yellow 'bot.)

- Herb

[RifleMech]

Oh, they DEFINITELY DID NOT reach early Clan tech. Peak Star League-ish Inner Sphere-level gear was the limit, or the whole BattleTech universe wouldn't make any sense at all! ;)

:) Good to know. SO Improved Weapons are out. Did they expand the weapons classes the way the Clans did LB-Xs, UACs, ER Lasers, Streak SRMs? Or did they feel about them the same as the SLDF? One being enough?

Not as long as the Star Empire has no FTL they won't. Sublight interstellar wars are nigh impossible to plan and execute. But then again, yeah, it's even more unlikely that the Inner Sphere or Clans ever would even take an interest, let alone specifically go to this place. As far as they're concerned, the CNAZ doesn't even exist, and the ships lost in that region over the centuries are just drops in the bucket of how many others have been lost to the Deep Periphery in every direction.

All that plus with the events going on at the moment, everyone's too busy to go off exploring.

The trouble with Hearts of Steel, while it looked pretty interesting, was how it played fast and loose with the times. The Seekers were biplanes in the late 1800s, before powered flight even existed, so how were there forms even a disguise? And most of the ground forces had to be locomotives, making their presence far from rails a rather conspicuous sight. That their weapons also devolved into cannons of the period was a bit weird, and I know there were a lot of inconsistencies the comics had when dealing with those events--to the point where they ultimately created some new characters and said they were all mind-wiped to not remember everything. And yeah, Shockwave as a transforming ironclad was awesome.

Yeah, I just figure it's an alternative Earth where technology developed a little faster so there were more steam powered vehicles around. :) That he is. Could there be an alternative Syberia? Maybe some of the Humans abandoned planet to start over and their tech declined so much that they use steam power?

Now, it should be pointed out that the rules given in Nebula California DO strictly limit engine choices to fusion and fuel cells, but there's no reason there can't be a steampunk aesthetic painted over the whole thing like a veneer. One just needs to get creative with it, and if you want more primitive crap, well, there was XTR: 1945...

I suppose a steampunk veneer would work. Why were engines limited to only fusion and fuel cells? If there were, how heavy would steam engines be? Range?

I've wondered if either using ICEs with reduced range or using Fuel Cell Engines with the Primitive Modifier so they'd be a little heavier but not outrageously so would work. I've also wondered about twice the crits for additional fuel. One for fuel and one for water as they'd need both.

[HABeas2]

:) Good to know. SO Improved Weapons are out. Did they expand the weapons classes the way the Clans did LB-Xs, UACs, ER Lasers, Streak SRMs? Or did they feel about them the same as the SLDF? One being enough?

I have been building them pretty strictly to the rules I set out, but I've also been gradually coming around to the notion of *some* expansions as well. For instance, the SW-era Binary Laser, and the RW-era Primitive Rocket Launchers. I can readily see arguments for them delving into expanding weapons across their size categories if they already unlocked one of the type, which makes all the ER Lasers, Streak SRMs, LBXs and UACs possible, but I feel they should be WAY more rare, if only because they have basically been fighting their own Succession Wars for 400+ years with no innovators in sight, and no actual restraints against factory destruction. They didn't have a ComStar going around murdering scientists, but then again, they didn't need to at their scale of warfare. Plus, of course, they developed every flavor of physical weapon for some reasons that likely included entertainment.

All that plus with the events going on at the moment, everyone's too busy to go off exploring.

It's just a fringe terrorist group. The Empire's got the whole thing under control...

Yeah, I just figure it's an alternative Earth where technology developed a little faster so there were more steam powered vehicles around. :) That he is. Could there be an alternative Syberia? Maybe some of the Humans abandoned planet to start over and their tech declined so much that they use steam power?

Mmmm. Could be, Rabbit. Could be...

I suppose a steampunk veneer would work. Why were engines limited to only fusion and fuel cells? If there were, how heavy would steam engines be? Range?

The limits because these were still BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs being made for use in all kinds of harsh environs, including vacuum and underwater. ICEs were impractical for such tech and the Syberians never bothered with them. Steam engines would be just plain wacky, and have never been allowed for 'Mechs as far as I can recall offhand. If they were, I would consider them to have two big problems: High weight (about 2.8-3 TIMES as heavy as a comparable fusion reactor), and oversized form (as in, either treated as a Large Engine with +2 CT crits, or as a Light Engine, with +2 engine crits in each side torso; the latter would make them unusable in a transforming 'Mech right out of the gate, though).

I've wondered if either using ICEs with reduced range or using Fuel Cell Engines with the Primitive Modifier so they'd be a little heavier but not outrageously so would work. I've also wondered about twice the crits for additional fuel. One for fuel and one for water as they'd need both.

Again, see above. The Syberians built for all environs, what with their main planet being a hot, thin-aired, water-poor world. Drilling for oil and/or diverting precious water resources for steam engines posed environmental risks they could ill afford (not that transforming their planet into a higher-tech industrial powerhouse was necessarily good for them either, but, well, that's humanity for ya).

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

Then he's not Waspinator, but Wasp? (In TF Animated, Wasp was a rival of Bumblebee's who was wrongly imprisoned for espionage, went nuts, and was later hybridized into Waspinator by Black Arachnia. As Wasp, though, he was a green and yellow 'bot.)

was thinking more the Beast Wars style.

Why universe hate Waszzpinator?

honestly i'm surprised when they did the War for Cybertron trilogy's Kingdom installment, they made (BW)Scorpinok the "nameless mook" model for the series and dropped Waspinator. when Waspinator was the BW series's go-to mook to get blown up or pummeled, especially in later seasons. i guess he was too silly for the trilogy.

personally i kinda like the idea that in Syberia, his type is a 20-25 ton VTOL veemech based off an updated WSP-1 Wasp. 
if you had to use a proper vehicle mode instead of a "faux-animal/kaiju" mode, could see the result being something akin to the Donar..

hmm.. 1 ML, light armor, high speed.


(also.. a switch to a pure vehicle mode without 'cosmetic enhancements' could easily be used to represent cases where the AutoBoP's and DemoCons have salvaged some AxiMaL chassis types for their own use, captured a factory and put them into production with their own IFF and faction codes, or the very rare defector. or if you just want to drop the blatant elements of the animal theme. which is fair since beast wars kinda did by season 2 and 3 with the transmetals)

[Wrangler]

Oooh.  The Primitive Wasp really works as the Waspinator and using that VTOL.

[idea weenie]

Then he's not Waspinator, but Wasp? (In TF Animated, Wasp was a rival of Bumblebee's who was wrongly imprisoned for espionage, went nuts, and was later hybridized into Waspinator by Black Arachnia. As Wasp, though, he was a green and yellow 'bot.)

- Herb

If Wasp and Bumblebee are both scouts, then they would have similar jobs and often be targets of each other.  So that could be a latent upgrade to the code where both of them prefer to target their opponent (i.e. willing to accept a 2-pt to-hit difference in order to engage their rival)

[glitterboy2098]

had trouble with the name.. we'll just assume that the Scorpion Empire and the Syberians will never meet.. :)

The Cazador VeeMech is a rapid air-response unit for the Axilon biodome, often seen patrolling the airspace of the southern continent. While its AI is known to be somewhat simple minded and prone to quirky behavior, the design's mobility and relatively low resource cost has seen it produced in large numbers. Given the rate of attrition the design often suffers when facing the heavier denizens of Syberia's major factions, this rate of production is often barely sufficient to ensure sufficient numbers for the biodome's defense.

Code: [Select]

Cazador VTOL Veemech

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 125 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-X-D
Cost: 1,587,917 C-bills

Type: Cazador
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 379

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  2.5
Engine                        125 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
        VTOL MP: 5
        Vehicle mode VTOL
        Cruise MP: 8
        Flank MP: 12
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  56                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         5     
     Center Torso            8         7     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               6         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 4         6     
     R/L Leg                 6         7     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                       Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Conversion Gear                 LL        1        -       1.0   
2 Rotors                         RT        4        -       2.0   
3 Heat Sinks                      RT        3        -       3.0   
Conversion Gear                  LA        1        -       1.0   
3 Rotors                            LT        6        -       3.0   
2 Heat Sinks                      LT        2        -       2.0   
Conversion Gear                  RL        1        -       1.0   
Medium Laser                      RA        1        3       1.0   
Conversion Gear                    RA        1        -       1.0   


(i used 1 ton cargo slots for the conversion gear and pairs of 1/2 ton fluid storage for the rotors.. reallywish someone would ass the Syberian's to megamek and megameklab already)

[HABeas2]

was thinking more the Beast Wars style.
...
personally i kinda like the idea that in Syberia, his type is a 20-25 ton VTOL veemech based off an updated WSP-1 Wasp. 
if you had to use a proper vehicle mode instead of a "faux-animal/kaiju" mode, could see the result being something akin to the Donar..

hmm.. 1 ML, light armor, high speed.

Heh. In my headcanon, I gave him the Wraith Alexander Mech mode, and the Tonbo Superheavy Transport copter for his beast mode. The Wraith because of its slim and round-everything body type, and the Tondo for being a VTOL with extra legs. (He and the other Beast Wars Preds are in my spreadhseet from a few pages back as well.)

ICYMI: I handled the Maximals and Preds using your original AxiMaLs as a start point, Glitterboy, and picked out the following for figure approximations:

AxiMaLs (Maximals)
Axiom (the Axalon) - A Titan DS, modified until it resembles a Hamilcar DropShip.
Silverback (Optimus Primal) - Chameleon (Mech)/Mandrill (Beast)
Rhinokeros (Rhinox) - Crossbow Prime (Mech)/Blue Flame (Beast)
Rattus (Rattrap) - Satyr ProtoMech (Mech)/Micro-scale Barghest, unarmed (Beast)
Panthera (Tigatron) - Wolfhound (Mech)/Antlion (Beast)
Cynofelis (Cheetor) - Procyon, Humanoid Proto (Mech)/Procyon, Quad Proto (Beast)

PresiDoms (Predacons)
Far Side (the Darksyde)  - A Triumph DropShip, modified until it resembles a Claymore DropShip.
MechaTranis (Beast Megatron) - Ninja-To (Mech)/Barghest, 2 big guns (Beast)
Score-Lock (Beast Scorponok) - Copperhead (Mech)/Fire Scorpion (Beast)
SauriMech (Dinobot) - Sasquatch (Mech)/Blue Flame, guns removed (Beast)
Terra Soar (Pterrasaur) - Stinger LAM, Mk I, Mech mode (Mech)/Stinger LAM, Mk I, AirMech (Aero-Beast)
Torrentous (Tarantulus) & Arachnida (Black Arachnia) - Venom (Mech)/Tarantula, extra legs (Beast)
Wisp (Waspinator) - Wraith Alexander (Mech)/Tonbo VTOL (VTOL-Beast)

The Preds are much heavier than the AxiMaLs, here, and they are backed up by two (combiner) teams from G1, based on the G1 Predacons/Predaking and Terrorcons/Abominus. Some of your AxiMaL chassis types make reappearances in the other PresiDom teams, as they fit pretty well for my purposes. But, yeah, the AxiMaLs would definitely need fire support before long, so I had them as already aligned with the AutoBoPs (whereas the Junkion expys are "friendly, but unaligned"). This tipped the balance back toward parity. (Also, I mean, we know two of those Preds are gonna defect at SOME point, if our parallels hold up...)

(also.. a switch to a pure vehicle mode without 'cosmetic enhancements' could easily be used to represent cases where the AutoBoP's and DemoCons have salvaged some AxiMaL chassis types for their own use, captured a factory and put them into production with their own IFF and faction codes, or the very rare defector. or if you just want to drop the blatant elements of the animal theme. which is fair since beast wars kinda did by season 2 and 3 with the transmetals)

Yyyyyup.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

i can buy the "PresiDom's" (whats that short for by the way?) being a little heavier, but not by too much, otherwise it runs the risk of them being able to completely overpower the other side. in the show they didn't seem to be much tougher in most cases, they just tended to be more "combat centric" (often with more or bigger guns). which is part of why i made the AxiMaLs i wrote up generally focused more on speed with less firepower, with minor exceptions.

plus i kinda like the idea that the waspinator expy is light weight cannon fodder. :)

there were enough toys that didn't make it into the show (or outright recolors) though that you could probably keep the Wraith/Tonbo one though.. would make a good support unit, especially if it was presented as more of a slower heavy-lift design.

[glitterboy2098]

decided to take a crack at Airazor.. i'm imagining a fighter mode akin to one of the WOB Spectral fighters (just without the chin gun they all seem to use) or the Shrack with the articulated wings, not sure about the mech mode.

not sure on fluff.. its pretty slow as a LAM, but the comm gear gives it a co-ordination and comms relay role, especially for the airborne units. the weapons are a bit of a guess.. like most of the characters in the show her weaponry seems to vary from episode to episode, but the wrist rockets seemed fairly common, the toy had "guns" that basically were part of her tail. so i split the difference and went with forearm lasers and SRMs. which actually makes the type better armed than many of the ground types for the AxiMaLs. (a saker is a type of falcon, btw. it was tough finding a name the Jade turkey's had already claimed)

Code: [Select]

Saker Aerial Veemech

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 120 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     2 Medium Laser
     2 SRM 2
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3150
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 2,142,595 C-bills

Type: Saker
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 537

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    3
LAM Conversion Equipment                            4.5
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
AirMech Cruising MP: N/A
AirMech Flanking MP: N/A
Safe Thrust: 4
Max Thrust: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  72                    4.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         7     
     Center Torso            10        10   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               7         9     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         7     
     R/L Leg                 7         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Heat Sinks                  LL        2        -       2.0   
Communications Equipment      RT        2        -       2.0   
2 Jump Jets                   RT        2        -       1.0   
Medium Laser                  LA        1        3       1.0   
SRM 2                         LA        1        2       1.0   
SRM 2 Ammo (50)               LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks                  LT        2        -       2.0   
2 Jump Jets                   LT        2        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks                  RL        2        -       2.0   
Medium Laser                  RA        1        3       1.0   
SRM 2                         RA        1        2       1.0   



[RifleMech]

I have been building them pretty strictly to the rules I set out, but I've also been gradually coming around to the notion of *some* expansions as well. For instance, the SW-era Binary Laser, and the RW-era Primitive Rocket Launchers. I can readily see arguments for them delving into expanding weapons across their size categories if they already unlocked one of the type, which makes all the ER Lasers, Streak SRMs, LBXs and UACs possible, but I feel they should be WAY more rare, if only because they have basically been fighting their own Succession Wars for 400+ years with no innovators in sight, and no actual restraints against factory destruction. They didn't have a ComStar going around murdering scientists, but then again, they didn't need to at their scale of warfare. Plus, of course, they developed every flavor of physical weapon for some reasons that likely included entertainment.

Sounds cool. :)  So would Clan Prototypes be available since their performance is that of later IS versions? Not the Improved or advanced Clan Tech but the prototypes from Operation Klondike. Rare is good.  :thumbsup:

It's just a fringe terrorist group. The Empire's got the whole thing under control...

 :))

Mmmm. Could be, Rabbit. Could be...

 >:D

The limits because these were still BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs being made for use in all kinds of harsh environs, including vacuum and underwater. ICEs were impractical for such tech and the Syberians never bothered with them. Steam engines would be just plain wacky, and have never been allowed for 'Mechs as far as I can recall offhand. If they were, I would consider them to have two big problems: High weight (about 2.8-3 TIMES as heavy as a comparable fusion reactor), and oversized form (as in, either treated as a Large Engine with +2 CT crits, or as a Light Engine, with +2 engine crits in each side torso; the latter would make them unusable in a transforming 'Mech right out of the gate, though).

Again, see above. The Syberians built for all environs, what with their main planet being a hot, thin-aired, water-poor world. Drilling for oil and/or diverting precious water resources for steam engines posed environmental risks they could ill afford (not that transforming their planet into a higher-tech industrial powerhouse was necessarily good for them either, but, well, that's humanity for ya).

- Herb

I can see ICEs not being suitable do to the environment. (Although they can be used on Submarines.  ??? )  And yes steam engines would be wacky. :) How about fission or battery power though?

I wouldn't go with Large Engines. I know it's tempting looking at steam trains but diesel locomotives are big too.
Plus steam powered cars used to out sell internal combustion cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car Acording to Wiki, it was the electric starter and some laws that killed off steam ad electric powered cars. Wiki also says that steam engines were smaller and lighter. So using Large Engines wouldn't seem to fit. TM does make steam engines the heavier for support vehicles though. That's why I wondered about using the 1.2 Primitive Engine Modifier from IO. It'd make Steam Engines heavier but not unusable. So a 20 ton 6/9 SteamMech would have a 145 Engine Rated weighing 10 tons. A 20 6/9 ICE Mech would have a 120 engine rated weighing 8 tons.

Heh. In my headcanon, I gave him the Wraith Alexander Mech mode, and the Tonbo Superheavy Transport copter for his beast mode. The Wraith because of its slim and round-everything body type, and the Tondo for being a VTOL with extra legs. (He and the other Beast Wars Preds are in my spreadhseet from a few pages back as well.)

ICYMI: I handled the Maximals and Preds using your original AxiMaLs as a start point, Glitterboy, and picked out the following for figure approximations:

(snip)

- Herb

That's cool!  :thumbsup:

was thinking more the Beast Wars style.

(snip)

(also.. a switch to a pure vehicle mode without 'cosmetic enhancements' could easily be used to represent cases where the AutoBoP's and DemoCons have salvaged some AxiMaL chassis types for their own use, captured a factory and put them into production with their own IFF and faction codes, or the very rare defector. or if you just want to drop the blatant elements of the animal theme. which is fair since beast wars kinda did by season 2 and 3 with the transmetals)

The Primitive Wasp does work good for Waspinator and the Donar looks good with it too.  :thumbsup:

[HABeas2]

Sounds cool. :)  So would Clan Prototypes be available since their performance is that of later IS versions? Not the Improved or advanced Clan Tech but the prototypes from Operation Klondike. Rare is good.  :thumbsup:

No! NO CLAN STUFF! *baps RifleMech on the nose with a rolled up AARP magazine*

I can see ICEs not being suitable do to the environment. (Although they can be used on Submarines.  ??? )  And yes steam engines would be wacky. :) How about fission or battery power though?

Once fusion becomes available, what's the appeal of fission, really? Same with batteries. The Syberians just had no use for such tech when they had power systems that were already inherently superior. (Although it's possible such tech was used elsewhere, they certainly didn't use it in AutoMech design.)

I wouldn't go with Large Engines. I know it's tempting looking at steam trains but diesel locomotives are big too.
Plus steam powered cars used to out sell internal combustion cars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car Acording to Wiki, it was the electric starter and some laws that killed off steam ad electric powered cars. Wiki also says that steam engines were smaller and lighter. So using Large Engines wouldn't seem to fit. TM does make steam engines the heavier for support vehicles though. That's why I wondered about using the 1.2 Primitive Engine Modifier from IO. It'd make Steam Engines heavier but not unusable. So a 20 ton 6/9 SteamMech would have a 145 Engine Rated weighing 10 tons. A 20 6/9 ICE Mech would have a 120 engine rated weighing 8 tons.

I was looking more at the support vehicle tables, which give a fairly clear indicator to how the weights are computed for various engine types across a given tech rating. And, dude, we're talking about how to use steam power in the construction of autonomous giant robots capable of doing battle with lasers and particle cannon! Real-world comparisons are broken!

The Primitive Wasp does work good for Waspinator and the Donar looks good with it too.  :thumbsup:

That's a pretty good match too, yeah.

i can buy the "PresiDom's" (whats that short for by the way?) being a little heavier, but not by too much, otherwise it runs the risk of them being able to completely overpower the other side. in the show they didn't seem to be much tougher in most cases, they just tended to be more "combat centric" (often with more or bigger guns). which is part of why i made the AxiMaLs i wrote up generally focused more on speed with less firepower, with minor exceptions.

PresiDom = Presidential Domains (Aligned with DemoCon).

plus i kinda like the idea that the waspinator expy is light weight cannon fodder. :)

My plan for him was only 5 tons heavier, but I'm liking yours, and in the spirit of having adopted all your Aximals, I shall add him in place of mine. As to their overall weight, I'll drop my Preds a bit; you've put more work into yours than I have mine.

there were enough toys that didn't make it into the show (or outright recolors) though that you could probably keep the Wraith/Tonbo one though.. would make a good support unit, especially if it was presented as more of a slower heavy-lift design.

Too late! I took your idea. It's now in my spreadsheet and everything! ;)

If Wasp and Bumblebee are both scouts, then they would have similar jobs and often be targets of each other.  So that could be a latent upgrade to the code where both of them prefer to target their opponent (i.e. willing to accept a 2-pt to-hit difference in order to engage their rival)

Yup! If I put Wasp in proper, I'd have to remember that. And would you believe that I didn't even consider integrating Pilot Specials? Nice add, IW!

had trouble with the name.. we'll just assume that the Scorpion Empire and the Syberians will never meet.. :)

Guaranteed! You almost couldn't find two groups farther apart than them! Plus the whole "can't leave the CNAZ" thing...)

The Cazador VeeMech is a rapid air-response unit for the Axilon biodome, often seen patrolling the airspace of the southern continent. While its AI is known to be somewhat simple minded and prone to quirky behavior, the design's mobility and relatively low resource cost has seen it produced in large numbers. Given the rate of attrition the design often suffers when facing the heavier denizens of Syberia's major factions, this rate of production is often barely sufficient to ensure sufficient numbers for the biodome's defense.

Yoink!

(i used 1 ton cargo slots for the conversion gear and pairs of 1/2 ton fluid storage for the rotors.. reallywish someone would ass the Syberian's to megamek and megameklab already)

While we're still debating modifications to the rules? Good luck!

decided to take a crack at Airazor.. i'm imagining a fighter mode akin to one of the WOB Spectral fighters (just without the chin gun they all seem to use) or the Shrack with the articulated wings, not sure about the mech mode.

Yoink!

I thank you for your contributions to the Syberian lore, GB!

- Herb

[RifleMech]

No! NO CLAN STUFF! *baps RifleMech on the nose with a rolled up AARP magazine*

 :)) ;D  Lol! I was wondering because it ends up being heavier, taking more crits, and or generating more heat than IS stuff. So the tech progression would be SLDF, CP, IS.

Once fusion becomes available, what's the appeal of fission, really? Same with batteries. The Syberians just had no use for such tech when they had power systems that were already inherently superior. (Although it's possible such tech was used elsewhere, they certainly didn't use it in AutoMech design.)

Other than one faction isn't as advanced for some reason? I suppose there isn't much use other than maybe entertainment value. It's the entertainment value that made me wonder about really the big TFs. Max them out at 100 tons and then use miniatures for props and extras. A 100 ton Astrotrain lands, mini TFs come out and then Astrotrain Converts. Cut to next seen and full size versions are next to Astrotrain potting their attack. Things like that. It's what I thought for combiners too. Normal sized TFs converge and  start to convert, a little CGI, and there's a Superheavy Devastator. But then I'm not sure if the Humans were interested in that kind of entertainment. Maybe they just liked Gladiatorial Games?

I was looking more at the support vehicle tables, which give a fairly clear indicator to how the weights are computed for various engine types across a given tech rating. And, dude, we're talking about how to use steam power in the construction of autonomous giant robots capable of doing battle with lasers and particle cannon! Real-world comparisons are broken!

I looked at them too. They have steam being heavier. Which is why I thought about using the 1.2 modifier to determine engine rating. For current engines. Primitive would double that. While a 2 ton difference doesn't seem like much for a 20 ton mech, that is 10% of the mech's weight. For a 100 ton mech it'd be a lot more. The speed would also be maxed out at 3/5 with a 360 rated engine at 66 tons. A 100 ton fusion mech's 300 engine only weighs 19. A 300 ICE engine is 38 tons. So the Steam Engine does end up being heavier. And of course it'd need a power amplifier on top of that. It'd need heat sinks too. And no Jump Jets and any engine hit risks a steam explosion. That's how it'd work in my head any way.

I guess we could just fake it. Liquid storage for the boilers, and sprayers to spray steam and smoke. It doesn't quite feel the same though.

[HABeas2]

:)) ;D  Lol! I was wondering because it ends up being heavier, taking more crits, and or generating more heat than IS stuff. So the tech progression would be SLDF, CP, IS.

Still. No. Clans are bad. M'kay?

Other than one faction isn't as advanced for some reason? I suppose there isn't much use other than maybe entertainment value. It's the entertainment value that made me wonder about really the big TFs. Max them out at 100 tons and then use miniatures for props and extras. A 100 ton Astrotrain lands, mini TFs come out and then Astrotrain Converts. Cut to next seen and full size versions are next to Astrotrain potting their attack. Things like that. It's what I thought for combiners too. Normal sized TFs converge and  start to convert, a little CGI, and there's a Superheavy Devastator. But then I'm not sure if the Humans were interested in that kind of entertainment. Maybe they just liked Gladiatorial Games?

Nah. Combiners aren't that entertaining. ;) They probably like gladiator games, though, given the range of physical combat weapons they made.

The Syberians are relatively unique in that they didn't blow themselves past the point of losing fusion production, and it's likely that Syberia has little to no fossil fuels to speak of. They built their societies on a pretty solid fusion and fuel cell base. ICEs and battery-powered units may have found a niche, but it's probably a small one. Hmmm. Maybe that's what the JUniCom faction uses! They are the Junkion expy after all...

I looked at them too. They have steam being heavier. Which is why I thought about using the 1.2 modifier to determine engine rating. For current engines. Primitive would double that. While a 2 ton difference doesn't seem like much for a 20 ton mech, that is 10% of the mech's weight. For a 100 ton mech it'd be a lot more. The speed would also be maxed out at 3/5 with a 360 rated engine at 66 tons. A 100 ton fusion mech's 300 engine only weighs 19. A 300 ICE engine is 38 tons. So the Steam Engine does end up being heavier. And of course it'd need a power amplifier on top of that. It'd need heat sinks too. And no Jump Jets and any engine hit risks a steam explosion. That's how it'd work in my head any way.

Right, but then you're rapidly running out your internal space and mass, which your AutoMech probably already lost a bunch already to conversion systems. I mean, look, if it's what you want on YOUR table, that's fine--and may yet be found elsewhere in the CNAZ on some Girl Genius-style, Steampunk-themed planet--but the Syberians never needed to settle for sub-fusion tech.

I guess we could just fake it. Liquid storage for the boilers, and sprayers to spray steam and smoke. It doesn't quite feel the same though.

No, but that's kind of just it, I feel. The Transformers could take on local vehicle FORMS, but they were still Cybertronian robots under all the kibble, and they should have retained Cybertronian technology under all the gears and smoke. I mean, I can see an argument for them picking older ballistics as a way to make even their combat prowess "blend in" with the human technology, but those guns on ironclad Shockwave could have been more akin to the cannons of a 21st century tank than the block powder pieces of Civil War-era boats. Fully embracing the local tech when you have something better is kinda dumb-ish. The US doesn't withhold our drone bombers when they fight an enemy who's making do with 1950s Cold War surplus, after all.

- Herb

[Giovanni Blasini]

No, but that's kind of just it, I feel. The Transformers could take on local vehicle FORMS, but they were still Cybertronian robots under all the kibble, and they should have retained Cybertronian technology under all the gears and smoke. I mean, I can see an argument for them picking older ballistics as a way to make even their combat prowess "blend in" with the human technology, but those guns on ironclad Shockwave could have been more akin to the cannons of a 21st century tank than the block powder pieces of Civil War-era boats. Fully embracing the local tech when you have something better is kinda dumb-ish. The US doesn't withhold our drone bombers when they fight an enemy who's making do with 1950s Cold War surplus, after all.

- Herb

Doesn't apply much to the Syberians, except maybe for Junkion-expys, but one reason a Transformers faction might use subpar indiginous weapons is if their own are in short supply, either in the form of ammunition, or spare parts.

Also, side note, did you intend for the Star Empire to also be the perfect setting for some ex-insurrectionists to be running around in a DRoST converted into a cargo ship?

[HABeas2]

Doesn't apply much to the Syberians, except maybe for Junkion-expys, but one reason a Transformers faction might use subpar indiginous weapons is if their own are in short supply, either in the form of ammunition, or spare parts.

Well, yeah, but we're talking about a species whose very biology is alien to Earth. They didn't limit themselves to non-energy weapons when they woke up on Earth in 1984, so why would they do so for the even more primitive humans of the mid-1800s?

Also, side note, did you intend for the Star Empire to also be the perfect setting for some ex-insurrectionists to be running around in a DRoST converted into a cargo ship?

Didn't think of it, but that hinted-at IP would certainly work inside the greater hinted-at IP that is the Star Empire system. Just a few more ex-rebels trying to make their way in the 'verse.

...Heck, their version of River would likely be a Fortune-sensitive!

- Herb

[Daryk]

No! NO CLAN STUFF! *baps RifleMech on the nose with a rolled up AARP magazine*
*snip*

My hero!  :smitten:

[RifleMech]

Still. No. Clans are bad. M'kay?

:) Sure  :thumbsup:

Nah. Combiners aren't that entertaining. ;) They probably like gladiator games, though, given the range of physical combat weapons they made.

They sure seem to :)

The Syberians are relatively unique in that they didn't blow themselves past the point of losing fusion production, and it's likely that Syberia has little to no fossil fuels to speak of. They built their societies on a pretty solid fusion and fuel cell base. ICEs and battery-powered units may have found a niche, but it's probably a small one. Hmmm. Maybe that's what the JUniCom faction uses! They are the Junkion expy after all...

:)  That'd be cool.

Right, but then you're rapidly running out your internal space and mass, which your AutoMech probably already lost a bunch already to conversion systems. I mean, look, if it's what you want on YOUR table, that's fine--and may yet be found elsewhere in the CNAZ on some Girl Genius-style, Steampunk-themed planet--but the Syberians never needed to settle for sub-fusion tech.

I'd like to see that planet one day. :) Why would they lose more crit space than they do already?  ???

No, but that's kind of just it, I feel. The Transformers could take on local vehicle FORMS, but they were still Cybertronian robots under all the kibble, and they should have retained Cybertronian technology under all the gears and smoke. I mean, I can see an argument for them picking older ballistics as a way to make even their combat prowess "blend in" with the human technology, but those guns on ironclad Shockwave could have been more akin to the cannons of a 21st century tank than the block powder pieces of Civil War-era boats. Fully embracing the local tech when you have something better is kinda dumb-ish. The US doesn't withhold our drone bombers when they fight an enemy who's making do with 1950s Cold War surplus, after all.

- Herb

True. Very true. I totally get what you're saying.  :thumbsup: I'm thinking about those who never quite got that far or who's tech has declined so they have to make do with older technolgies. Like using 1950's tech to make a flux capacitor or older tech to get a tricorder to work.

No! NO CLAN STUFF! *baps RifleMech on the nose with a rolled up AARP magazine*

My hero!  :smitten:

 :toofunny:

[HABeas2]

True. Very true. I totally get what you're saying.  :thumbsup: I'm thinking about those who never quite got that far or who's tech has declined so they have to make do with older technolgies. Like using 1950's tech to make a flux capacitor or older tech to get a tricorder to work.

That's basically what you may start to get if the worlds of the CNAZ start actually interacting, such as the opening fiction of WttNC, where the original Grimdark somehow wound up on Toreel.

- Herb