Most Overrated Mech?

[Stirling]

I remember this being a post many many years ago and I wanted to see what the current opinion on this subject was.

The prompt is thus:
What do you think is(are) the most overrated mech(s) with regards to their fluff and era of production?

I'll start if off with an easy one: Atlas AS7-D

Slow and heavily armored, but it has to be very close to do anything worthwhile. This is counter to its fluff as being such a terrifying mech that many fled before it instead of blasting it to pieces before it got close enough to be dangerous.

[Saint]

I' say the Atlas AS7-K2, popular in my group. But it runs warm and has a XL for a speed increase . I find it very mediocre .

[martian]

I remember this being a post many many years ago and I wanted to see what the current opinion on this subject was.

The prompt is thus:
What do you think is(are) the most overrated mech(s) with regards to their fluff and era of production?

I'll start if off with an easy one: Atlas AS7-D

Slow and heavily armored, but it has to be very close to do anything worthwhile. This is counter to its fluff as being such a terrifying mech that many fled before it instead of blasting it to pieces before it got close enough to be dangerous.

Albatross

- specifically designed "to face and defeat Clan OmniMechs". Yeah, sure. With 208 points of armor protecting XL Engine, no CASE and loaded with Autocannon and missile ammo.
- "tremendous long-range firepower" of one ER Large Laser and one LRM-15 rack ...
- "one of the most advanced 'Mechs produced in the League" - yeah, without Endosteel or FF armor or Artemis IV or CASE or GR ...


Grand Titan

- specifically designed "to take on the best of the Inner Sphere and the Clans" Can you imagine fighting the Daishi, when your effective firepower is a pair of IS Large Pulse Lasers?
- "terrified the most people throughout the Inner Sphere."
- "strike fear into the heart of even the most experienced MechWarrior." Seriously, guys?

[Alex Keller]

First off, i just want to say that one persons idea of overrated may be vastly different than another's. And units that might not be a great brawler or striker could excel at other roles. So really, my choices are of designs that don't perform well according to the purpose of their fluff.

TRO 3025: WHM-6R Warhammer often finds itself lacking too much armor. As such, it's best employed as a fire support unit where most of its firepower is unused. Hardly the hard hitting heavy as advertised.

TRO 3050: Summoner Prime. I can't understand the Falcon's love affair with the Prime (by definition the most common variant of the most common CJF frontline 'mech). Even as a duelist, which is what Falcon warriors do, it just doesn't compare. I suppose one could make an argument that its no worse than the Wolves' Gargoyle Prime, and they'd be right. Except the Gargoyle was in the process of being phased out by the Timber Wolf.

[Kret69]

My personal favourite, WHM-6R. It's not particularly effective, builds up heat momentarily and is still an iconic Mech for everything before the Clans. At least on cover arts. ;)

[Pat Payne]

I'm gonna go ahead and say the Atlas, at least the AS7-D. While it's certainly nothing to sneeze at... on paper, the problem is that it's almost strictly a short-range combatant once it runs out of LRM ammo. If it's put into a lengthy long-range sniping duel with, say, an Awesome, chances are that sooner or later it will become for all intents and purposes a mobile, heavily-armored, slow-moving 100-ton paperweight.

I understand what Kerensky was thinking when he wanted a big, ugly bruiser that would scare the snot out of anything on the field, but what was he smoking when he dreamed up a big, ugly bruiser that had only one (and an iffy one at that!) long-range weapons system?

Albatross

When anything is named "albatross", the jokes write themselves.

[rebs]

The Warhammer. 

Love it for class and raw appeal, but out of the 3025 box it was the one heavy I most hoped my opponents would choose.   

[theothersarah]

The AS7-D isn't so hot because it's slow and almost the entirety of its armament is close range, but the AS7-D-H Atlas II is a lot closer to what Kerensky was going for, I think.

[Kojak]

Definitely the MAD-3R. The gulf between its reputation and its actual battlefield performance is enormous.

[Stormfury]

I understand what Kerensky was thinking when he wanted a big, ugly bruiser that would scare the snot out of anything on the field, but what was he smoking when he dreamed up a big, ugly bruiser that had only one (and an iffy one at that!) long-range weapons system?

He was thinking "... and then I'll have them make the Atlas II."

In all fairness, the AS7-D is pretty terrifying as a one-on-one opponent for anything short of the Wolf Dragoon Assault 'Mechs in the 3rd and 4th Succession Wars. It may not be that great against multiple opponents, but then what is?

I'd have to go with the Quickdraw. Built to replace the Rifleman, but it doesn't have the ability to serve in that role and, in a feat that defies logic, is probably a worse design than the Rifleman any way.

[Stirling]

Definitely the MAD-3R. The gulf between its reputation and its actual battlefield performance is enormous.

Marauder 3Rs actually perform on the battlefield? ;)

Joking aside, this is another easy one. Terrible armor and heat capacity coupled with an over the top fluff makes me think that the producers of the MAD 3R paid off the people printing the TROs (in universe that is).

[Pat Payne]

He was thinking "... and then I'll have them make the Atlas II."

 ;D Probably!

In all fairness, the AS7-D is pretty terrifying as a one-on-one opponent for anything short of the Wolf Dragoon Assault 'Mechs in the 3rd and 4th Succession Wars. It may not be that great against multiple opponents, but then what is?

But that's only if said opponent is obliging/suicidal/stupid enough to get in the Atlas' kill zone, which only extends to (IIRC, don't have the actual figures at hand ATM) 6-8 hexes in the Atlas' front weapons arc. Get a fast 'mech with reliable long-range weapons (doesn't even need to be in the same weight class, let's use a Catapult K-4, for instance) and a good enough pilot, and that Atlas will be whittled down to scrap metal in a reasonable amount of time with little risk to the assailant.

[Stormfury]

But that's only if said opponent is obliging/suicidal/stupid enough to get in the Atlas' kill zone, which only extends to (IIRC, don't have the actual figures at hand ATM) 6-8 hexes in the Atlas' front weapons arc. Get a fast 'mech with reliable long-range weapons (doesn't even need to be in the same weight class, let's use a Catapult K-4, for instance) and a good enough pilot, and that Atlas will be whittled down to scrap metal in a reasonable amount of time with little risk to the assailant.

If you're going to use a design some 40+ years and one rules level more advanced, yes, it's probably not going to have much fun.

But in its own period, 'Mechs that can take one on and win reliably are few and far between.

[Stinger]

Rifleman.  Firing less than half its weapons and walking puts it at its heat limit.  Firing an alpha-strike puts the thing at +14 heat.  Not to mention going +6 on just firing its large lasers.  With only 1 ton of AC ammo.

Honestly, this thing has more heat problems than the well bracketed warhammer.

[Feenix74]

I agree with the comments about the WHM-6R Warhammer and the MAD-3R Marauder. May I also put forward for consideration the RFL-3N Rifleman.

Good amount of medium/long-range firepower for a 3025-era heavy mech, but without enough heatsinks to fire half of it without starting to run into heat problems. Ok, so you need to bracket fire and pattern fire to manage your heat. However, this cuts your damage potential down significantly and then you must rely on your mobility and armour to give you the staying power to wear down an opponent. That is when you realise that as a Heavy moving 4/6/0 with 7.5  tons of armour (ie you are less mobile than a Vindicator/Enforcer/Centurion and have less armour than them) that you really need to be trying to hide up the back of the battlefield in a "fire-support" role and plink the entire battle with your autocannons with the occassional large laser shot when the heat levels allow you to fire. That works for about 10-12 rounds before you run out of ammo and become 60-ton of ballast holding back your team.

The fluff says:

" the Mech easily overpowers lighter opponents."

I would happily take a 45 ton VND-1R Vindicator and go toe-to-toe with a Rifleman with confidence that I would leave the Rifleman a steaming pile of parts while I limp away victorious 9 out of 10 times.

EDIT - Stinger07 just beat me to it.

[guardiandashi]

I think the rifleman's issue is it tries to accomplish too much in the 3025 tech base, actually it would be a lot scarier with a basic upgrade IE dhs and dump the ac's for 2 more large lasers

[Stirling]

Seems like we have a good few level 1 mechs that fail to live up to a shadow of their fluff. Now, are there any level 2+ mechs that meet the same criteria as those that came before?

[StuartYee]

The fluff says:

I would happily take a 45 ton VND-1R Vindicator and go toe-to-toe with a Rifleman with confidence that I would leave the Rifleman a steaming pile of parts while I limp away victorious 9 out of 10 times.

EDIT - Stinger07 just beat me to it.

Funny, I was just going to mention the Vindicator VND-1R. It's the Confederation's favorite, and according to Tseng Shen in one of the Warrior trilogy books, it once commanded respectability.

It's egregiously slow for a medium and just isn't big enough to try to be both a long and short range weapons platform. It's like it's trying to be both a shadow hawk and a griffin.

[Feenix74]

To be honest, I prefer the Centurion to the Vindicator. However, I was trying to highlight how little respect I have for the Rifleman.

I agree with guardiandashi, retrofitting DHS to the RFL-3N Rifleman makes it a significantly better mech.

[Paladin1]

I see the Warhammer mentioned for it's thin armor and high heat, then I see the Marauder mentioned for it's high heat and torso bomb.

What I'm surprised about is that no one has mentioned the Crusader.  High heat, double torso bombs with literally nothing else in the torso, MG and SRM ammo in the CT, SRMs in the Legs, primary weapons are all ammo dependent.  This thing has so many "quirks" that it hurts to say it, but it's a walking excuse to explode.  Granted, I've got several but that doesn't make it any easier to admit.

[Fletch]

ThunderChickenhawk.

Infernos and LBX ftw!!!

[Paladin1]

ThunderChickenhawk.

Infernos and LBX ftw!!!

Maybe I'm just not remembering, but isn't the Thunderhawk a 3x GR, max armored monster?  I don't see it worrying about infernos or LBX ACs any more than anyone else.

[pensiveswetness]

isn't one of the reasons some of the fluff seems alot like car advertising? thats because they are car advertisments. Battlemech manufactures compete with each other for product production numbers, both those House Major Militaries, militia units as well as Mercenary interests. If you were silly enough to buy a Albatross (im ignoring the fact that that particular mech in fluff, isnt available on the open market, just ising it as a example) then you deserve the low quality ride you bought. thats the vibe ive always got when reading a TRO, its like the Jane's of the BT universe...

[cold1]

I think the rifleman's issue is it tries to accomplish too much in the 3025 tech base, actually it would be a lot scarier with a basic upgrade IE dhs and dump the ac's for 2 more large lasers

Yeah they fixed those problems... well a long time later in a Kerensky cluster far far away.
Rifleman IIC

[IronHead]

My personal favourite, WHM-6R. It's not particularly effective, builds up heat momentarily and is still an iconic Mech for everything before the Clans. At least on cover arts. ;)

Hey, I resemble that remark!  And I have to agree with it to doggone it, lol

Maybe I'm just not remembering, but isn't the Thunderhawk a 3x GR, max armored monster?  I don't see it worrying about infernos or LBX ACs any more than anyone else.

That's what I was thinking.  I know of only 3 variants of it and none have missiles or autocannons.

[Greywind]

The Awesome isn't.

[JadeHellbringer]

Sagittaire. TC and pulse lasers galore, that's nice- unless I'm more than nine hexes away (easily accomplished, as slow as it is), in which case it's an ER PPC staggering around hoping I'll get bored and stop shooting it. It's basically the Hunchback all over again, just bigger and more expensive.

[I am Belch II]

I would say a Rifleman, the firepower, armor and performance wasn't that great.

[SteelRaven]

Loaded question really, few mechs live up to the hype and it's really depends on how you use them.

[Aleksandr]

MAD-3R Marauder. The heat problems on this thing are incredible. Luckily there's the -3M, which I will take in every instance I'm able to.