Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion  (Read 20526 times)

Kotetsu

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’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« on: 23 November 2012, 02:09:33 »
’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion

Scorpion. An arachnid whose sting becomes more dangerous the smaller it is. A German 80’s hairband. The Clan of Secrets, who do (and have done) anything to protect the Emerald Empire of Rokugan. A 55-ton quadruped BattleMech that is one of, if not the most, maligned design of all time.

Might have something to do with the short-lived Xanthos project not ironing out all the kinks…

The Xanthos debacle was the result of Hollis Incorporated losing their contract for the Catapult, and rushing the prototypes into full production. Those prototypes crashed and burned in a high-profile manner in 2564, and prejudiced many against the quad movement profile. Head researcher on that project was one Dr. David Harrison, who believed that the quad could achieve greater movement flexibility and would be the way of the future.

Brigadier Corporation in a quest to develop their own design decided to extract Dr. Harrison and try and bring his ideas to fruition. Entering service in 2570, the Scorpion was received with little praise, even being called a “white elephant” by some. And that was before they discovered that the ride wasn’t as smooth as predicted. In fact, while in motion, the pilot would often be tossed around violently. One definitely needed to buckle up.

Designed for speed, the SCP-1N is built around a VOX 330-rated engine, which with the specially-made gyroscope, takes up over half the design’s mass. According to the original write-up, the design has specially constructed heat sinks which were mounted in the legs, which perhaps worked for that rules-set. Now all ten of the design’s heat sinks are covered by the engine. The design is armed with an Anderson Armaments PPC, considered the best weapon made by that firm, backed up by a Marvel Six-Load SRM Rack. Both weapons are placed in the right torso, with the SRM ammunition placed (by itself) in the left torso. All of this is covered by seven tons of armor, less than that carried by the FS9-M Firestarter. A little over half of maximum, the layout allows the front side torsos and legs to take a PPC, the center front three large laser shots, the head and center rear a single large laser, and the rear sides can withstand a medium laser shot.

While the speed was admirable, most pilots complained about the lack of protection, the ride, and being vulnerable to infantry fire from below. All of these things caused the design to quickly become the last step before Dispossession. And some pilots chose to be Dispossessed before accepting one. Apparently, Brigadier made just enough money from the design to allow Dr. Harrison to continue his research, which eventually led to the slightly less-maligned Goliath.

Sometime around 2690, the engineers at Brigadier figured they couldn’t do much worse with the Scorpion, and decided to look into making it into a Land-Air ’Mech. While admirable, and perhaps even visionary in a way, Quadrupeds and LAMs were not meant to mix. The nasty gait was successfully dealt with, but lack of funds meant Brigadier never got the chance to follow that up. The major problem was the conversion equipment. As in, it didn’t work at all. The armament was the same as the -1N model, but the engine was downgraded to a 275-rated model, though five jump jets were added. Since I still am unsure what to make of LAM’s in general, I will reserve judgment on the entire process. The best thing to come out of the project is that Defiance tried the corporate espionage route, and when they failed to make headway, buried the prototypes on Hesperus II.

It is doubtful that the SLDF took many, if any of the base design on the Exodus, and when the production facility received its makeover from orbit in 2837, no one bothered to pick up the licensing to produce the design. The Succession Wars were not kind to the design, and to add insult to injury, towards the end of the Third Succession War, the Lyran Commonwealth started a program of scrapping every Scorpion left in their service. One Lyran MechWarrior named Wednall Puritan II chose to leave Lyran service to join Smithson’s Chinese Bandits in order to keep his machine in existence. His PPC was apparently damaged in the Fourth Succession War. Unable to get a replacement, Wednall installed a large laser in its place. The left-over two tons were put into much needed armor, which figures out to five more points on each leg, and six to each front side torso.

As the Helm Memory Core’s advancements spread, few gave any thought to upgrading the maligned Scorpion. Not wanting to be left out, some enterprising pilots with acquisition abilities created the SCP-1O by swapping the PPC for a Magna Firestar ER PPC. While an easy upgrade, this puts huge strains on the heat dissipation system. There is a slight discrepancy in record sheets for this variant. Most have single heat sinks, but the one in 3085 Unabridged has freezers (which seems a bit more of a chore than a simple field upgrade).

Still maligned and with numbers dwindling from fighting during the Clan Invasion and early FedCom Civil War eras, the Scorpion looked to fade into the mists of memory. Then fighting on Hesperus II uncovered a long-forgotten bunker with details of a Scorpion LAM project that had been abandoned and buried (literally). Initially uninterested, someone noticed that the chassis redesign solved the handling problems. After negotiating the license agreement for a song, the SCP-12S was born. Utilizing that redesigned endo-steel chassis and a few other components to give it a radically different look (fulfilling the Project: Phoenix mission), the -12S uses an Edasich Motors Light Fusion engine to free up space to swap the PPC for a Class-10 LB-X autocannon. Two tons of ammunition is placed in the left torso, which is now CASEd. Two tons of armor were added, which adds six points to each leg, eight to the side torso fronts, one point to the head, and decreases the center front by three, and the rear locations by one or two points. Double heat sinks were used.

Shortly thereafter, the Word of Blake approached Brigadier offering to help produce a design that incorporated most of the design improvements that Defiance used. An extralight engine was used. Instead of an endo-steel skeleton, the SCP-12C utilizes ferro-fibrous armor and adds four tons over the SCP-1O, bringing the protection to 98% of maximum, which up armors all locations to maximum, save the center torso which maintains its original protection. Ten double heat sinks allow for cool running, as the weapons load consists of an ER PPC and improved Narc launcher in the right torso, and an extended small in the left, and a C3i in the center. Four tons of ammunition for the iNarc is stored in the left torso, allowing for a variety of loadouts. Perhaps in foreshadowing, the write-up on this variant notes that most of the production runs were disappearing, perhaps to phantoms.

Early in the Jihad, the Draconis Combine decided to create a variant of their own, the SCP-12K. Using an extralight engine, the -12K swaps the ER PPC for a Snubbie, the SRM rack for a 9-pack MML launcher with two tons of ammunition. An extended medium and a C3 Master are placed in the left torso. Ten tons of ferro-fibrous provide the protection which adds points to the front, while reducing the center torso rear armor.

Sometime later, a modification designated the SCP-1TB appeared. Seemingly a product of mercenary scrounging, the design uses a 330-rated light engine tied into a MASC system. Twin Light PPCs and a 9-pack MML are mounted in the right torso. Two tons of ammunition are stored in the center torso. Ten double heat sinks keep the design cool.

The final variant is the SCP-10M. Built on the Oliver production lines, this variant uses a VOX 385-rated extralight engine, giving it similar ground speed to the similarly-weighted Wraith. Armor is similar to the -12S, with four points removed from the side torsos, and two added to each leg. An endo-steel skeleton and an extralight gyro free up weight to swap the PPC for a Heavy model, and the SRM rack for a 10-pack LRM. Ten double heat sinks keep the machine running somewhat cool.

Using one of these machines is simple, run and shoot. You need to keep your movement up to make it harder for your foe to hit you. With most variants, if you get hit a couple times, you will be in trouble. (Double so if you’re like me, and most enemy fire likes hitting your legs.)  Most variants don’t have CASE either, and carry ammunition in very vulnerable positions. Use lateral movement if it helps. With the -10M keep back, as your minimums will get in the way if someone closes. Also watch your heat. The earlier models tend to be a bit heat-intense. When using the first two models, I used a “Fire the PPC, run for cover to cool down,” approach.

Fighting one is also simple enough: Shoot it until it stops twitching. First off most variants have ammunition stored in the left torso, so if you can target, aim there. The only one that doesn’t moved the ammunition to the center torso. And only one variant has CASE. Next, if you can get around him, do so. All variants suffer from the main flaw of quads, no ability to torso twist. And since none have rear weapons, that gives you three sides to shoot from without any return fire. Note being directly behind one will give him the chance to kick you. Those models mounting C3 are a little more tricky. The primary method my group uses is to close with a ’Mech mounting an ECM suite (or better yet Stealth). The -12K is a bit simpler than the -12C, since targeting the left torso has the added bonus of ammunition stored right above it. The -12C, unfortunately, probably has five back-ups nearby to make your day a bit more difficult.

While still a design struggling against its own reputation, my personal feeling is that the Scorpion was indeed a visionary machine. Some might even say it is still ahead of its time. Most troubling for this design is that the Demilitarization programs going on across the Inner Sphere. Already, the Republic has closed the Oliver plant. And because of that bad reputation, I have to wonder if the Scorpion will be on most of the powers’ lists for decommission just below all the Blakist designs they managed to capture.
« Last Edit: 31 January 2014, 17:40:14 by Kotetsu »

Scotty

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #1 on: 23 November 2012, 02:28:02 »
The Scorpion has never done wrong by me, I'll say that much.  Granted, I've only ever used it against the MM bot, and I've only ever used the -1N variant, but I have the feeling those two cancel each other out more than a little bit.  Excellent speed for the kind of kick it can dish out, especially in 3025, and the extra quad stability is pretty important if it ever comes under fire, since falling prone is practically a death sentence for anything this fast that can't afford to be hit much.

The PPC is a good enough main gun in 3025, but the heat problems are there just by running and firing the PPC, much less adding the SRM-6.  I'd call it a bracket fire 'Mech, but the brackets aren't that great, and the heat doesn't even work that well.

It's not a wonderful 'Mech (I'd take a PXH-1 over it any day of the week, and twice on Sunday), but it works for what it tries to do, for the most part.  It's very easily the fastest 'Mech larger than 40 tons in SW tech, at the very least.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #2 on: 23 November 2012, 04:01:47 »
Once I specifically asked about the SCP-1O, and since all newer editions of record sheets show double heat sinks, we may take for granted that SCP-1O was equipped with "freezers".

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #3 on: 23 November 2012, 04:04:54 »
The Clan of Secrets, who do (and have done) anything to protect the Emerald Empire of Rokugan.

Looks like you have figured out the Green Ghosts.  :D

Joking aside, the Scorpion seems be more disliked in-universe than on table-top. Also, the armor situation is not really all that bad, one ton less than the Hermes II, but it does double long-range damage. It has also much better armor than the Clint, the Vulcan, the Sentinel, and the Assassin. Its biggest problems are A) it wastes tonnage by being five tons too heavy, B) it competes partially with the Phoenix Hawk.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #4 on: 23 November 2012, 04:58:03 »
Regarding the original fluff; if you're really into houserules you can apply the following:

1) A Scorpion dissipates 2 extra heat for ever leg in depth 1 water, or 1 extra for every leg in swamp/level 0 water.

2) A Scorpion ignores all damage to 1 leg, i.e. a Scorpion with only 2 legs left is treated as a quad with 3 legs.

That essentially sums up the effects implied in the fluff, and the reason for the oversized engine - FASA had a thing for wasting tonnage to "pay" for special capabilities (see Quickdraw, Cyclops).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #5 on: 23 November 2012, 05:49:38 »
I follow some general principles regarding quad mechs

1. Turret!!! ( Goliath 6M )
2. When no turret
- jump jets, especially in slow quads ( Tarantula 2A, 3A )
- speed. You need to stay away from a bipod mech that can outmaneuver you. ( Tarantula 4A)
- range. use long range weapons while prone whenever possible ( Tarantula 4A)
- some rear facing weapons when possible, especially for slow quads. Locusts kill.

now do you see the name scorpion on my list.
I hate the design

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #6 on: 23 November 2012, 06:08:47 »
The failings of the Scorpion begin with the powerplant. That 330 SFE just ate up too much space. If it had used the powerplant of the Classic Trio, it could have become a better fighting platform. However, it would need a new focus as its main weapon to separate itself from the PPC carried by the Griffin. This could be accomplished by turning it into a missile boat, using the AC/10 or mounting a brace of large lasers as it's primary battery.
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Martius

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #7 on: 23 November 2012, 08:13:49 »
Move, hull down, fire. Get up, move, hull down, fire. Rinse and repeat as needed.

This makes the ER PPC, freezer equipped -1O an excellent medium sniper, especially on maps where cover is rare.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #8 on: 23 November 2012, 10:59:27 »
I never understood why people have the Scorpion so much flak.  It's not a bad mech in SW era play and the upgrades aren't terrible.  The ERPPC version can shoot and scoot and crit seek with SRM.  It's not the best medium but it's fast enough and well armed enough to cause issues.


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Nikas_Zekeval

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #9 on: 23 November 2012, 11:07:12 »
The failings of the Scorpion begin with the powerplant. That 330 SFE just ate up too much space. If it had used the powerplant of the Classic Trio, it could have become a better fighting platform. However, it would need a new focus as its main weapon to separate itself from the PPC carried by the Griffin. This could be accomplished by turning it into a missile boat, using the AC/10 or mounting a brace of large lasers as it's primary battery.

Dropping the mass 5 tons in the original would reduce the engine, gyro and structure mass 7 tons, a net two ton gain.

Really the Scorpion is in the same class and the Charger and BNC-3E Banshee, the design is too large for the desired speed.  Even the with a light fusion engine it is a break even proposition, and the XL is at best a minor improvement over a 50 ton model.

The armament itself is serviceable in the base and the upgrade with freezers, but running with or against it remember the inherit weakness of quads, no torso twist gives huge blind spots on the sides.  The Steiner machine is massively oversinked, useful if you have to push a force through a high heat area to surprise a force on a 'secure' flank, but otherwise rather inefficient.  The Kurtian machine is a bit of an infighter in armament for a C3M, but with the speed would be serviceable as a scout lance commander.  Thought given the snubbie this mech might wind up using the TAG function of the C3M more than most.

Which ISTM is the Scorp all around, nice but seems to suffer from design bloat.
« Last Edit: 23 November 2012, 11:09:45 by Nikas_Zekeval »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #10 on: 23 November 2012, 11:34:22 »
I've never used the Scorpion but I'm thinking of taking a Marik medium company out with one just to take it for a spin.  Overall, while I think the armor is definitely on the thin side, I think Martius is probably on the right track - keep moving and shooting, don't try to brawl with it like a WLV-6M, although I don't use the hull down rules normally.

Joking aside, the Scorpion seems be more disliked in-universe than on table-top. Also, the armor situation is not really all that bad, one ton less than the Hermes II, but it does double long-range damage. It has also much better armor than the Clint, the Vulcan, the Sentinel, and the Assassin.

It's a half-ton less, actually, and "much better" is not precisely how I'd characterize having one additional ton of armor over the STN-3K Sentinel.  I'll grant you the STN-3L is a half-ton lighter and it might be what you were thinking of, but I'm going to stick to Intro 'Mechs here.  Let's go ahead and include the other two 40 tonners in TRO3039.  Significantly better than the Cicada's 4 tons, inarguably, and a full ton of armor less than the Whitworth.

Just to get even more samples for comparison - and ones that really underscore how bad the Scorpion's armor actually is - let's go grab the 35 tonners.  The JR7-D Jenner's armor problems are well known, matching the Cicada and certain Bug variants at 4 tons.  It also matches the RVN-1X Raven, also a 'Mech not known for being able to take a punch.  FS9-Hs are 5.5 tons, 1.5 tons less than the Scorpion but respectable for their size.  But wait, friends, we've got two more 'Mechs!  The PNT-9R Panther is a mere half-ton lighter than the Scorpion.  The Wolfhound's is actually a half-ton heavier.

The fact that I can find no less than three 'Mechs more heavily armored than the Scorpion in a range of 'Mechs 15 and 20 tons lighter, with two more that are within a ton of its armor rating, says more about how bad the Scorpion's armor is than how good it is in my opinion.  The results when you look at 'Mechs closer to the Scorpion's size are rather damning.

Overall, no, I don't think the armor is completely irredeemable - that's the SHD-2D - but the Scorpion's armor is pretty bad.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #11 on: 23 November 2012, 12:14:33 »
The fact that I can find no less than three 'Mechs more heavily armored than the Scorpion in a range of 'Mechs 15 and 20 tons lighter, with two more that are within a ton of its armor rating, says more about how bad the Scorpion's armor is than how good it is in my opinion.  The results when you look at 'Mechs closer to the Scorpion's size are rather damning.

Still, you cannot count those that are too slow to keep up with it, like the Whitworth and Panther, so you have to reduce the 3-2 numbers to 2-1. The only mechs that really damns it are the Phoenix Hawk and the Wolfhound.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #12 on: 23 November 2012, 12:23:04 »
I always liked to look, and used them allot with the custom rules above for early models.  I will say I like the look better of the 3085 version, but I think it should have mounted an MML, although I understand why they didn't.
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blitzy

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #13 on: 23 November 2012, 12:24:06 »
Regarding the original fluff; if you're really into houserules you can apply the following:

1) A Scorpion dissipates 2 extra heat for ever leg in depth 1 water, or 1 extra for every leg in swamp/level 0 water.

2) A Scorpion ignores all damage to 1 leg, i.e. a Scorpion with only 2 legs left is treated as a quad with 3 legs.

That essentially sums up the effects implied in the fluff, and the reason for the oversized engine - FASA had a thing for wasting tonnage to "pay" for special capabilities (see Quickdraw, Cyclops).

On a tangent, there was a battletechnology that posted optional rules for all that fluff stuff back in the day.  Really cool back then.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #14 on: 23 November 2012, 12:28:11 »
Scorpions were always fun, but heat was usually my downfall. My personal SW variants looked something more like "replace SRM-6 with SRM-2 loaded with Infernos, use extra mass for Heat Sinks"

As for more modern upgrades, that 12K looks amazing! Only change I would make is remove the ERML and upgrade to a C3 Boosted Master. Nice ride though!

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #15 on: 23 November 2012, 12:43:01 »
Still, you cannot count those that are too slow to keep up with it, like the Whitworth and Panther, so you have to reduce the 3-2 numbers to 2-1.

If I'm talking about how thin the armor is even compared to 'Mechs 15-20 tons lighter, those two are actually excellent examples, but I'll accept that wasn't exactly what you were doing.

The only mechs that really damns it are the Phoenix Hawk and the Wolfhound.

The Hermes II doesn't exactly suggest anything pleasant even if it's only a half-ton heavier.  Since the Sentinel isn't all that far behind, either, I don't think the Scorpion's armor is anything to crow about in the 6/9 race.  Include 5/8/x 'Mechs as being able to compete with it due to not being that much slower and their wider firing arcs and the picture gets a lot less pleasant for the Scorpion.

Fortunately, most players are smart enough to go around the problem instead of trying to blundgeon through it with armor they don't have on this unit, and the speed and weapons mix gives you some options as a harasser, raider, sniper, and scout hunter that even the classic Phoenix Hawk can't give you.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #16 on: 23 November 2012, 15:14:42 »
Looks like you have figured out the Green Ghosts.  :D

Joking aside, the Scorpion seems be more disliked in-universe than on table-top. Also, the armor situation is not really all that bad, one ton less than the Hermes II, but it does double long-range damage. It has also much better armor than the Clint, the Vulcan, the Sentinel, and the Assassin. Its biggest problems are A) it wastes tonnage by being five tons too heavy, B) it competes partially with the Phoenix Hawk.

Very true..  Though my playing of them in TT did always see them going out to a torso loss (which kills the leg too) before they were able to score much damage, i always have had a soft spot for quads.  Pity there was never a version which was 5/8/5 vice the 6/9/0..

Quote
The failings of the Scorpion begin with the powerplant. That 330 SFE just ate up too much space. If it had used the powerplant of the Classic Trio, it could have become a better fighting platform. However, it would need a new focus as its main weapon to separate itself from the PPC carried by the Griffin. This could be accomplished by turning it into a missile boat, using the AC/10 or mounting a brace of large lasers as it's primary battery.

Agreed.  A 5/8/5 movement profile would have worked imo better.  OR even keeping it 6/9 but adding jumpjets.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #17 on: 23 November 2012, 15:34:43 »
Today we have TFT-L8 Thunder Fox moving 5/8/5, and of course there are Tarantula and Stalking Spider too.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #18 on: 23 November 2012, 16:04:29 »
The Stalking Spider really should be the Scorpion IIC.  The weapons profile and look matches well. 


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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #19 on: 24 November 2012, 02:22:46 »
Today we have TFT-L8 Thunder Fox moving 5/8/5, and of course there are Tarantula and Stalking Spider too.
Thought the Stalking spider was clan?
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #20 on: 24 November 2012, 02:36:08 »
Thought the Stalking spider was clan?
Yes, it is.

Its creators (Clan Cloud Cobra) have survived Wars of Reaving, and since it was designed in 3059, there has been a plenty of time to proliferate among other Clans. TRO specifically mentions Blood Spirits and Jade Falcons. Burrocks and Bandit Caste may use those too.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some Stalking Spiders in the Inner Sphere, taken by Clans fleeing Homeworlds in 3070s, such as Horses, Sharks, Ravens, Falcons or Wolves.

Kotetsu

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #21 on: 24 November 2012, 03:36:46 »
Considering the Stalking Spider was in several Dark Age/Age of Destruction factions, yeah it's in the Inner Sphere...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #22 on: 24 November 2012, 12:27:34 »
I like the Scorpion OK.  I have a few of them in mini form.  The heat isn't really an issue for me, as I shoot the PPC on the way in and then hit the SRMs.  It should never drop below 5/8 speed wise. 

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #23 on: 24 November 2012, 17:21:46 »
Considering the Stalking Spider was in several Dark Age/Age of Destruction factions, yeah it's in the Inner Sphere...

I'd be reluctant to use the miniatures sorting in MWDA/AoD as an indicator of a 'Mech's availability; the needs of the CMG likely outweighed the needs of the universe, especially towards the end of the game's life. Besides, MUL lists the Stalking Spider as "Not Available" in the Republic Era.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #24 on: 24 November 2012, 18:32:56 »
Love this thing.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #25 on: 26 November 2012, 09:48:04 »
A 'mech that's scout-fast, carries a PPC, and can fire it regularly? Sign me up! I'll definitely side with those who say it should stick to maneuver fighting, though. Piloting a Scorpion is not for the impatient. Stick to long range, and accept that you're going to miss far more shots than you hit with. The trick is to hit slightly more often than the other guy does. The SRMs are strictly a last resort weapon, or a go-away button if you suddenly encounter tanks.

Definitely looking forward to running the new Marik model. I figure I'll use it as a scout leader, providing heavy support for the actual scouts. Sort of an IS equivalent of the Black Lanner.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #26 on: 26 November 2012, 15:57:38 »
I wonder if they ever thought of making a UAC-10 or RAC-5 version?  Assuming they could come up with the tonnage savings.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #27 on: 29 November 2012, 17:13:20 »
Just noticed that the Scorpion is on both the Periphery Powers and the Clan lists in Operation: Klondike. So, there is a chance it got made into a IIC model (I'm leaning towards the Fire Scorpion as it is already out by the Golden Century).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #28 on: 30 November 2012, 01:40:15 »
Just noticed that the Scorpion is on both the Periphery Powers and the Clan lists in Operation: Klondike. So, there is a chance it got made into a IIC model (I'm leaning towards the Fire Scorpion as it is already out by the Golden Century).
Maybe. Maybe they really did, as Fire Scorpion is quite different to be true Scorpion IIC. But even if they did, I guess they scrapped those Scorpions IIC a long time ago.

It's interesting fact that MUL Online shows Fire Scorpion (Original) and Fire Scorpion (Standard) and both seem to be identical 'Mechs with twenty years between them.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #29 on: 30 November 2012, 12:06:20 »
A straight-up Scorpion C with an ERPPC and, oh, a pair of SRM6es is a fascinatingly fun ride.  Sure you overheat with the ERPPC, but blast at range with it, then charge in and missile salvo.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #30 on: 30 November 2012, 16:43:19 »
I find it hard to believe that such a 'Mech wouldn't be equipped with DHS's

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #31 on: 30 November 2012, 22:22:25 »
The -Cs were all field refits with Clan weapons, slapped together by the Clan technicians.  No armor or other changes; hence the ERPPC and SSRM volley.  Guess you could make it an ERLL and lower the heat, but...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #32 on: 01 December 2012, 06:07:41 »
They mostly went with LPLs though, after all they were ment for the second line units.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #33 on: 01 December 2012, 16:46:43 »
That Scorpion LAM would have been nasty to fight, -2 to all PSR for a fighter? Yes please.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #34 on: 01 December 2012, 17:03:01 »
Who knows? Maybe they'll be a write-up on it in the (supposed) XTRO: Star League. (At the least, if they are redoing all the old "Unseen", that would be a way to cover the Scorpion.)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #35 on: 03 December 2012, 04:13:24 »
That Scorpion LAM would have been nasty to fight, -2 to all PSR for a fighter? Yes please.
For some reason, it's hard to see the Quad Bonus to transfer to a LAM...

If it did, it'd be a darn big boost to LAMs, putting them close to surpassing ASFs, and that'd be hard to explain in-Universe.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #36 on: 03 December 2012, 16:41:08 »
Actually it is rather simple to see how the Scorpion LAM would've failed. If the upper weight limit is still 55 tons, and the Scorpion starts there...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #37 on: 03 December 2012, 21:03:35 »
Actually it is rather simple to see how the Scorpion LAM would've failed. If the upper weight limit is still 55 tons, and the Scorpion starts there...
The original LAM was based on the Shadow Hawk which weighs 55-tons, so it's not really a problem, just that something will have to give

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #38 on: 04 December 2012, 04:10:00 »
The Scorp will need to find 5.5 tons for conversion equipment and another few tons for Jump Jets. There's no way that it can do that without either slowing down or further degrading its already weak weapons and armour.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #39 on: 04 December 2012, 04:44:23 »
Drop the SRM-6 and PPC for a Larger Laser.  You gain six tons, at least, and dropping it to a 5/8 gives you a lot more to play with.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #40 on: 05 December 2012, 18:36:01 »
Just drop the SRM-6 and turn it into what a Panther's supposed to be, a fire support 'Mech for light lances

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #41 on: 05 December 2012, 19:29:11 »
The Scorp will need to find 5.5 tons for conversion equipment and another few tons for Jump Jets. There's no way that it can do that without either slowing down or further degrading its already weak weapons and armour.

If you go the same route as the Phoenix Hawk LAM and drop the speed to 5/8/5 that gains 10 tons from the smaller engine and gyro, and eats up eight of them for the conversion gear and jump jets.  That leaves two tons, most likely heat sinks and/or armor.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #42 on: 06 December 2012, 19:41:07 »
Nice to see reasonable love for the scorpion.  i liked it as a support sniper back in the day. And the current partial cover rules just help make it so much better at that. I mean who wants to risk the shots being wasted when there's something your sure to hit one you connect.     the new hppc varient is no Blitzkerg but its a damn scary flanker or pursuit unit.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #43 on: 09 December 2012, 16:10:32 »
I always looked at the Scorpion and said, "This should have an infantry bay" - pity that isn't possible within the rules.

Beyond that, for the old SCP-1N, another option I liked was making it a bigger Jenner, dropping the PPC for a brace of mediulasers and heat sinks.  For an odd duck route, drop both PPC and SRMs, go with 4 MLs, a token LRM-5 for range, 12 SHS and another two tons of armor to help it survive in close. Don't like the LRMs? Really go bigger Jenner and run an SRM-4 in its place.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #44 on: 31 January 2014, 17:42:03 »
Added a small write-up on the LAM. Not sure how well I did, since I never understood the concept...

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #45 on: 31 January 2014, 19:59:58 »
This mech's standard variant actually becomes tremendously effective in hilly terrain, with the hull down rules. Get into partial cover, go hull down, and don't move until you have to abandon your post for some reason. You will have just enough heat sinks to keep using the PPC, and you will be very difficult to hit in return, even though you're stationary.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #46 on: 31 January 2014, 20:27:06 »
Once I specifically asked about the SCP-1O, and since all newer editions of record sheets show double heat sinks, we may take for granted that SCP-1O was equipped with "freezers".

It was corrected in the TRO 3050 errata, but that didn't get very good distribution.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #47 on: 02 February 2014, 16:49:24 »
I've used the scorpion a few times.  In SW era play I use it as a mobile sniper, or "Bug Hunter".  Considering in SW play a PPC would cripple most lights.  if not cripple then severely damage.  The SRM was used strictly for if anything tried to get under minimum range for the PPC.

In Latter eras, its been hit or miss.  Honestly I'd rather HAve a ERPPC, with more heat sinks then the LB.  with a tough more armor, or add a second SRM 6 rack. 
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #48 on: 03 February 2014, 09:50:43 »
In Latter eras, its been hit or miss.  Honestly I'd rather HAve a ERPPC, with more heat sinks then the LB.  with a tough more armor, or add a second SRM 6 rack.

You can try SCP-10M Scorpion. That's a good 'Mech. Its Heavy PPC can't be ignored and if you fire LRMs too, you can force PSR.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #49 on: 03 February 2014, 10:58:11 »
No kidding. I cannot WAIT to try that thing out. 8)
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #50 on: 03 February 2014, 11:14:44 »
I've used the SCP-10M twice...its evil...if you hit with both weapons, it forces a PSR...the HPPC tends to leave its mark, and its fast enough to get into a good position most of the time.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #51 on: 03 February 2014, 11:37:37 »
No kidding. I cannot WAIT to try that thing out. 8)

Would you people quit giving him ideas!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #52 on: 03 February 2014, 12:00:13 »
Would you people quit giving him ideas!

Why?  The SCP-10M Scorpion is really harmless, sure.    O:-)

Sometimes I turn it into U-Boot and move it along the river bottom. It's completely safe, thanks its Quad piloting bonus. And then I emerge from the river when and where my enemy is not expecting it, and I can sneak my Scorpion behind his group of 'Mechs.

Once I managed to nail an enemy 'Mech with my Heavy PPC and LRMs into it CT rear armor. It was as if you open a tin can ...   }:)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #53 on: 03 February 2014, 12:10:10 »
Once I specifically asked about the SCP-1O, and since all newer editions of record sheets show double heat sinks, we may take for granted that SCP-1O was equipped with "freezers".

It was corrected in the TRO 3050 errata, but that didn't get very good distribution.

using singles gave it an interesting dynamic, and fit the idea of a field refit by Scorpion fans. DHS would require a depot level rebuild of the engine, something not many 'warriors might be able to afford or obtain. a DHS swap might make sense from a gameplay perspective, but i could i have lived with singles and singles made for a more characterful vehicle.
« Last Edit: 03 February 2014, 12:14:18 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #54 on: 03 February 2014, 18:46:13 »
I wish there was miniature of the SCP-10M Scorpion variant, it was pretty neat.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #55 on: 03 February 2014, 20:44:49 »
I always wanted them to come up with rules for adding a 'stinger' like tail for mechs, to make this truely into a scorpion!
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #56 on: 03 February 2014, 23:37:32 »
I always liked using the Scorpion in 3025-era play. It was good as a sniper or a bug-hunter, and after a few nasty fights with it my friend Jeffy tended to go off on some primal response "KILL IT!" jag whenever he saw one hit the board. Didn't matter what else was going on, he'd throw all his resources into killing that Scorpion, and eventually any quad he saw on the field...
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #57 on: 04 February 2014, 00:03:31 »
I always wanted them to come up with rules for adding a 'stinger' like tail for mechs, to make this truely into a scorpion!

Scorpion has no tail. But Fire Scorpion has a tail.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #58 on: 11 February 2014, 07:50:49 »
I have an odd soft spot for quads. After I mule-kicked a hostile heavy (I think it was a Thunderbolt) with my Goliath (don´t ask why they got so close to each other) and it fell and died and that won me the game I´ve grown fond of them.

I always looked at the Scorpion and said, "This should have an infantry bay" - pity that isn't possible within the rules.
...

You are not alone in this. It always looked like an APC with legs to traverse difficult terrain to me. It could always go hull down to let the infantrymen leave the vehicle and stand up in a few seconds. The armament would be a good support too.
« Last Edit: 11 February 2014, 07:52:29 by Molossian Dog IIC »

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #59 on: 11 February 2014, 17:50:08 »
Quote
I always wanted them to come up with rules for adding a 'stinger' like tail for mechs, to make this truely into a scorpion!

Could be done by adding a turret maybe.  (my 2 cents.)

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #60 on: 11 February 2014, 18:47:48 »
I had the hilarious thought from this tread of a "Legged Tank," which is some sort of horrible crossbreed of Tank and Mech. It gets better movement in rough terrain but a Hover-esque vulnerability to getting a limb (And mobility) lopped off.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #61 on: 11 February 2014, 18:53:45 »
I had the hilarious thought from this tread of a "Legged Tank," which is some sort of horrible crossbreed of Tank and Mech. It gets better movement in rough terrain but a Hover-esque vulnerability to getting a limb (And mobility) lopped off.

Check out the new QuadVees from TRO: 3145 (and TRO: 3145 Clans).
The Cyllaros, the Harpagos and the Arion.


The rules for them are in FM: 3145.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #62 on: 11 February 2014, 19:54:34 »
They're so horrible its awesome.  :D

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #63 on: 11 February 2014, 21:55:06 »
I had the hilarious thought from this tread of a "Legged Tank," which is some sort of horrible crossbreed of Tank and Mech. It gets better movement in rough terrain but a Hover-esque vulnerability to getting a limb (And mobility) lopped off.

IIRC, there was a hover-quad mecha in an anime awhile back.. think it might have been one of the tank police ones.

and Multi-ped tanks (aka 4 legged mecha tanks) have been a big part of the ghost in the Shell universe.. where they come in full sized (MBT sized) and mini (heavy /assualt BA sized) forms..

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #64 on: 11 February 2014, 23:11:24 »
Yeah, I know about the Adorkable Tachikomas and the very less adorkable MBT variants. I'd treat the Tachikomas as souped up quad protos, while the big eight legged tanks as quads with fluff 8 legs instead of four (Ease of play on that one.)

Nah, these are the kind of tanks that would walk around so you could kick dudes out the back and such. At least they'd look like the Scorpion rather then the Sirocco or Thunder Horse (The Quad LB-20X/Trip LRM 20 clan standard mech).

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #65 on: 12 February 2014, 00:27:59 »
Could be done by adding a turret maybe.  (my 2 cents.)

The turret more works for what we see the Unseen Goliath having, not how i envision the tail and stinger of a true scorpion being.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #66 on: 12 February 2014, 07:36:11 »
Let's get back to the actual Scorpion, guys.

I wound up with one off of a RAT and was thinking of sticking it into a lance with a couple of Hermes IIs as a lance leader.  Thoughts?

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #67 on: 12 February 2014, 08:02:54 »
I see that working quite well in any era. In all cases the Scorpion can easily keep up with the Hermes IIs, and in some cases the maneuverability means it's faster. This is always good for a low-tier commander that might need to reinforce any one of his subordinates at a moment's notice. It has the firepower to noticeably hurt anything that won't utterly kill a Hermes, allowing it to provide fire support and/or push an enemy back long enough to get them out of trouble. The armor may be thin in some models, but it's still thick enough to handle the aforementioned threats that won't just roast a Hermes before help can arrive, allowing it to fight long enough for the smaller 'mechs to get away. Finally, most models are focused on an energy weapon, so they can easily handle the long-range deployments a scout lance would be sent on.

And if your lance is using all the latest models of both, it's a DAMN scary strike lance. #P
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #68 on: 12 February 2014, 08:03:51 »
Let's get back to the actual Scorpion, guys.

I wound up with one off of a RAT and was thinking of sticking it into a lance with a couple of Hermes IIs as a lance leader.  Thoughts?

What variant of Hermes II? HER-5SA? HER-5Sr? Or HER-7S?

I would go with something like this:
  • SCP-10M Scorpion
  • HER-5Sr Hermes II
  • HER-5SA Hermes II - LPL is useful against fast movers + it can contribute with its UAC-5
  • HER-5SA Hermes II - LPL is useful against fast movers + it can contribute with its UAC-5

Or you can go with HER-7S. In the Dark Age those technologies are not too extravagant anymore.

Moonsword

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #69 on: 12 February 2014, 08:25:46 »
Sorry, should have specified.  I was rolling on Xotl's 3025 RATs, so we're talking about the SCP-1N and a couple of HER-2S models.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #70 on: 12 February 2014, 09:04:02 »
Sorry, should have specified.  I was rolling on Xotl's 3025 RATs, so we're talking about the SCP-1N and a couple of HER-2S models.
Okay.  :)
Easy way would be one SCP-1N and 3* HER-2S.

But I would go with something like this, just for fun:
  • SCP-1N Scorpion
    - the heaviest punch thanks its PPC
  • HER-2S Hermes II
    - multi-purpose 'Mech, its AC-5 has range comparable with the Scorpion's PPC
  • HER-4K Hermes III
    - even though its pair Large Lasers has slightly shorter range, they won't run out of ammo and can cover the minimum range of SCP-1N and HER-2S
  • HER-2M Hermes II "Mecury Elite"
    - this 'Mech is as fast as Jenner and is useful both against enemy 'Mechs and enemy infantry

I would say that you will get a good lance of 'Mechs that are both mobile and pack some firepower. A good unit for the Marik Guard or the 1st Atrean Hussars.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #71 on: 12 February 2014, 09:06:24 »
Should still work just fine. It's like a Panther leading a lance of Jenners, only this time the PPC carrier can keep up with the scouts, who are also well-equipped for long-range combat. This would actually be a REALLY good unit in Battleforce or Alpha Strike, able to keep the speed up and the range open, peppering enemies with 1-point hits from long range.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #72 on: 12 February 2014, 09:07:40 »
Yeah, what I've got available is a lot of 2S and some 2M Hermes IIs, no 4Ks, and some other 6/9/6 'Mechs like Vulcans and Phoenix Hawks I'm leaning toward pairing together instead of tying them to the ground-bound forces.

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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #73 on: 12 February 2014, 09:57:16 »
I'd go that way as well. I'm a big fan of grouping like movement curves together, to alow coherent forces to make the most of their speeds. It's why I'm actually not that big a fan of superfast designs like the newer Locusts, as they frequently have to be tied to slower lancemates or operate solo unless I can set up a pure lance of that specific design.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #74 on: 13 February 2014, 23:59:39 »
Hm...I'd find some way of adding a Javelin to that, just because half a light lance with a PPC and 18 SRMs is mean and awesome.  Add some lasers and such to the mix, maybe a Firestarter if you can get it for the antipersonnel work that the Scorpion is so fluffily vulnerable to, or else a Pixie and a Hermes of any color.
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Re: ’Mech of the Week: SCP-*** Scorpion
« Reply #75 on: 14 February 2014, 17:29:04 »
I'd go that way as well. I'm a big fan of grouping like movement curves together, to alow coherent forces to make the most of their speeds. It's why I'm actually not that big a fan of superfast designs like the newer Locusts, as they frequently have to be tied to slower lancemates or operate solo unless I can set up a pure lance of that specific design.

I've got a Hermes that I have no idea what to do with.  The vast majority of that regiment (okay, so I was bored) is a truly ridiculous number of heavies, so the 6/9 lances actually work very well as a scout/cavalry screen for the main force.