How do you want your second-line mechs: XL or standard engine?

[Moonsword]

Exactly.  But there are second-liners that use an XLFE to get a mix of firepower and speed you simply can't get with an SFE like the Solitaire or the Sphinx but still stack on armor to offset the engine's own vulnerability.

[Guardsman]

I think there's a place for both XLEs and SFEs in Clan doctrine, but I'm siding with Diablo on this one, Guardsman. It would take having both side torsos destroyed, critical hits aside, to kill an Clan mech with an XLE, and the amount of extra armor, weapons, speed, equipment you can mount for the weight savings will be worthwhile the majority of the time. There are a few designs which make the most of the cheaper SFE, and the extra zombie factor certainly doesn't suck, but it's hard to justify something that much heavier when the difference is relatively minute.

It has its advantages and its drawbacks. Some would trade the advantages, which are considerable, for the drawbacks. Now, let’s just line up my shot, ooh, critical to the left torso. Come on low number, papa needs a new kill.

[Guardsman]

One of the reasons I love my Grizzly. 4/6/4 with good armor and weapons for all seasons. The SFE is just icing on the cake at that point.

Sigh, so many Clans have cool 'Mechs. I wish the Jaguars were still around, producing 'Mechs and kicking butt.

[Col.Hengist]

Sigh, so many Clans have cool 'Mechs. I wish the Jaguars were still around, producing 'Mechs and kicking butt.

 I think the adders are still producing the ebon jaguar.

[Guardsman]

I think the adders are still producing the ebon jaguar.

Not the same! :(

[Col.Hengist]

Lol ok

[Guardsman]

Lol ok

I won't be happy until the three or four galaxies, and few warships that were unaccounted for show up, and declare themselves survivors of their so-called trial of annihilation.

[Stormfury]

As has been said in the past, those units either never existed, or did so only on paper.

[Guardsman]

As has been said in the past, those units either never existed, or did so only on paper.

Can't you at least let me dream? :'(

Guardsman dreams . o o ( Smoke Jaguar jackboots walking across Terra, after becoming the ilClan )

[IndyRI]

It has its advantages and its drawbacks. Some would trade the advantages, which are considerable, for the drawbacks. Now, let’s just line up my shot, ooh, critical to the left torso. Come on low number, papa needs a new kill.

Well that kill will need to follow other criticals. Knocking out a single side torso won't kill a mech with a Clan XLE. You need either both side torsos or an improbable number of engine crit hits. It's fairly unlikely, all things considered.

[Moonsword]

Well that kill will need to follow other criticals. Knocking out a single side torso won't kill a mech with a Clan XLE. You need either both side torsos or an improbable number of engine crit hits. It's fairly unlikely, all things considered.

Or one engine crit and a fried side torso.  If your armor levels aren't that high, it's not as uncommon as you might think.

[Guardsman]

Or one engine crit and a fried side torso.  If your armor levels aren't that high, it's not as uncommon as you might think.

I found it to be far too common for my liking, and by the way, nice Rabid Coyote avatar.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Indeed.  Verra Nice.

[Guardsman]

Indeed.  Verra Nice.

I'm actually thinking of colourising mine, but it'd be so inolved, plus, I have a funny feeling it'd make him even more sinister looking.

[Moonsword]

I'm actually thinking of colourising mine, but it'd be so inolved, plus, I have a funny feeling it'd make him even more sinister looking.

That's what you get for misappropriating a Nova Cat Khan's picture.

I found it to be far too common for my liking, and by the way, nice Rabid Coyote avatar.

Thanks.

[IndyRI]

Or one engine crit and a fried side torso.  If your armor levels aren't that high, it's not as uncommon as you might think.

It happens, but for the weapons and speed you get it's still a relatively rare negative trade-off. It does present pretty often with lighter designs with little armor, but at that point, if they're getting hit they aren't expecting to live much longer anyways.

[idea weenie]

Or one engine crit and a fried side torso.  If your armor levels aren't that high, it's not as uncommon as you might think.

A CXL engine saves ~15% of the Mech's mass, and needs 4 critical slots.  CF-F only saves you 3% of the Mech's tonnage, and uses up 7 critical slots.  If I had access to the factory, I'd take a Mech with CF-F, and swap it for CXLE.  This saves me 11-12% of the Mech's tonnage, and frees up 3 critical slots.  Even with a 20-tonner, that gives me 2 more tons to play with for extra stuff.  Including extra armor.

CF-F is a great Field refit for a Mech, so the Mech's protection can be increased much faster (or saving a ton or so and adding more ammo/weapons), but the CXLE is a wonderful thing, that has to be refitted at a Factory.

[Moonsword]

Not what I was getting at.  There's plenty of Clan XLFE 'Mechs that don't offset the vulnerability by armoring the torsos correctly, which was what I was getting at right there.  The Hellbringer is an excellent example.

There's also plenty of them that use that XLFE to become fast-moving, heavily-armed bricks.  The Stormcrow and Timber Wolf are the canonical examples of that for me.

[Guardsman]

Thanks.

What Cluster or Galaxy is that meant to be, or is just simple blue-grey Coyote?

[Moonsword]

It's Delta Galaxy and was based on the Rabid Coyote in that Galaxy in CamoSpecs.

[Guardsman]

It's Delta Galaxy and was based on the Rabid Coyote in that Galaxy in CamoSpecs.

Nicely done.

On a side note, which should not be a side note, I think my reluctance on the XL Engine is probably some bleed over from the Inner Sphere XL Engines. For the Clans, it’s not nearly as risky.

[IndyRI]

On a side note, which should not be a side note, I think my reluctance on the XL Engine is probably some bleed over from the Inner Sphere XL Engines. For the Clans, it’s not nearly as risky.

Likely the case. A lot of IS players tend to get a little sick to their stomachs at the sight of XLEs, largely due to the bad feeling fostered by the canonical designs that use it. Even IS XLEs have their uses, but it's such a vulnerability issue that you really have to make excellent use of that saved space to be worthwhile. In the Clans, it's possible to screw up and XLE, but it's far more forgiving by its very nature.

[Moonsword]

I don't get too bothered by IS XLFEs in general, personally.  What turns my stomach is the XXLFE (either tech base) or someone using an XLFE without stacking armor in front of it to mitigate the vulnerability as best you can.  Clan XLFEs aren't quite as bad right there but I prefer they're armored as well.  Since there's generally also other things in the side torso you don't want getting hit either (like, say, ammo), a certain level of armor seems well advised.

[IndyRI]

I don't get too bothered by IS XLFEs in general, personally.  What turns my stomach is the XXLFE (either tech base) or someone using an XLFE without stacking armor in front of it to mitigate the vulnerability as best you can.  Clan XLFEs aren't quite as bad right there but I prefer they're armored as well.  Since there's generally also other things in the side torso you don't want getting hit either (like, say, ammo), a certain level of armor seems well advised.

I don't have the instant turnoff to IS XLEs that many players do. But they definitely make me nervous. Used properly they give you enough firepower and equipment to make up the difference easily, but you do have to be more careful with terrain, placement,, coordination between units, etc. I think TRO: 3050 did a lot to permanently hurt their reputation though.

[Moonsword]

TRO3050 did a lot of damage to a lot of reputations.  Streak 2s and Narc didn't really make out well there either, as I recall, and the Panther is still trying to shake off the PNT-10K.

[Neufeld]

What turns my stomach is the XXLFE (either tech base)

QFT. Especially the way XXLFE seems to be the most common experimental tech in use.  [madflame] [soapbox] [metalhealth] [tickedoff]

[Guardsman]

I don't have the instant turnoff to IS XLEs that many players do. But they definitely make me nervous. Used properly they give you enough firepower and equipment to make up the difference easily, but you do have to be more careful with terrain, placement,, coordination between units, etc. I think TRO: 3050 did a lot to permanently hurt their reputation though.

What would you say was the best example of a pre-Jihad IS XLE?

[Arkansas Warrior]

QFT. Especially the way XXLFE seems to be the most common experimental tech in use.  [madflame] [soapbox] [metalhealth] [tickedoff]

About the only time I'll use one on a serious design is if it's the combination of XXLFE and Hardened Armor.  That way there's no worry of it getting TACed out, and dropping a torso will take a lot longer.

[Guardsman]

About the only time I'll use one on a serious design is if it's the combination of XXLFE and Hardened Armor.  That way there's no worry of it getting TACed out, and dropping a torso will take a lot longer.

Sell out! ;)

[Doug Glendower]

When I play Clan, my main ride is the Stupid Hawk.



Stooping. I said Stooping.