Author Topic: Task Force Vendetta  (Read 5087 times)

Crimson Dynamo

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Task Force Vendetta
« on: 28 February 2012, 19:27:20 »
Aside from one Quixote-class Frigate, do any of the JHS books mention what else made-up this task force?
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"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

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Lore

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #1 on: 29 February 2012, 00:40:12 »
Maybe Jihad Hot Spots: 3076.

Off-hand, all I can recall at the moment, is that most references simply said " ... the Vendetta and her task force ... "
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Stormfury

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #2 on: 29 February 2012, 00:50:58 »
Indeed. I would imagine they supplemented the ship with gifted or modified Leopard and Union PWs, with maybe an Avenger or two if they were really lucky. Blockade Runners are the most likely otherwise, though.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #3 on: 29 February 2012, 02:45:35 »
According to Field Manual 3085, the following DropShips are the common Taurian Pocket WarShips.

Trojan (Jihad Secrets)
Avenger (2816) (TR3057)
Union PWS (3075)
Achilles (3055) (TR3057)
Kuan Ti (TR3057)
Mule PWS (3075)

My bet is that any or all of these would be what is commonly found in the Vendetta's task force.  Along with transport eggs of course, which include anything up to Overlords and Seekers and Triumphs, in addition of course to the standard Unions and Leopards.
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Stormfury

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #4 on: 29 February 2012, 03:24:32 »
RATs do not provide or even imply commonality of designs.

Native production can account for the Leopard, Union/Trojan Blockade Runner, and PW refits of those designs.

Anything else has to come by way of trade or salvage; the Achilles was tough to find and difficult to maintain through its service history, the only real source of which was the Capellan Confederation after the Trinity Alliance, but it is a powerful and well-regarded ship so international exports to the Concordat would not be a high priority; the Kuan Ti is in a similar situation with the added complication of being a Xin Sheng symbol. By the time the Jihad began, the Concordat had been in the Trinity Alliance for five years, and after it kicked off the Capellans would not be particularly interested in trading such vessels. They're expensive, and while we know the Taurians were building up their AeroSpace strength and trying to get the Vandenburg operational, there's nothing to suggest DropShips were part of their plans during the Trinity period. I would seriously doubt they had more than five of either (or indeed, five of both together), and even then they are more likely to be stationed as defenders of the Hyades than anything else.

The Mule is considerably larger than native industry can support, even allowing for it being a fairly common freight design; the Taurians aren't going to be readily able to convert them, either. By TR: 3075, only the Word of Blake was known to be using Mule-PWs, and even then seemingly because their other assets were stretched too thin- most of the Mule-PWs the Word had lacked the full upgrade package. They might have been given some as a gift, but as one of the largest PWs, I wouldn't expect too much in that regard.

The Avenger is the most common of an uncommon vessel type; if there were to be Assault vessels in the squadron aside from Leopard or Union PWs or the Blockade Runner, it is the most likely candidate.

The Vendetta has 6 docking rings, 12 fighters, and 6 Small Craft. Cargo's not really an issue with 176ish thousand tons to spare, though maybe a quarter or so of that could go to carrying additional nukes.

Probably worth it to carry a pair of Leopard-CVs to add to the fighter count, leaving four berths; a pair each of Union-PWs and Avengers would, I suspect, be a better-case scenario.
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Isanova

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #5 on: 29 February 2012, 08:37:02 »
Probably at least one of the TCN's four fighting fleets, which would amount to old jumpships, possibly a few assault dropships purchased from the CC or found over the past centuries, a relatively smaller number of heavier ASF than usual, and a goodly portion of combat shuttles.

I would guess it to be a marine-heavy force both given their troop specialization and the likelyhood of a number of combat dropships being heavily modified civilian or troop transports.

Unless & Until TPTB give us a TRO:3057 style (primitive fleets) we just don't know. You can use the RATs or consider it justification for some heavy combat mods of ships like the Triumph and Mule.

Rough guesstimate of about 26-30 "combat" dropships, 2-4 "assault" dropships, maybe 60-80 fighters backed up by 30-40 combat shuttles (Tigress being the known example) and maybe a dozen primitive knock-offs of Battle Taxis.

If you want you can throw in some C* surplus assault dropships, but I wouldn't go so far as to include anything like the PWS (as I feel such would have made notice)

==========================

Remember you're going to be up against FedSuns who have better tech, better fighters and real PWSs. I'd consider designing a few "armor block" dropships based off other designs with a limited number of older weapons (adding T&T systems shouldn't be as easy as adding slab armor)

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #6 on: 29 February 2012, 21:01:34 »
The other thing you have to consider is that the TC has been short on any sort of aerospace asset since the beginning of the Succession Wars. At one point - I forgot the book, I admit - it was said that the TDF didn't have enough transportation assets to move its entire mech force. Given that they were in the middle of a war that they were thoroughly losing, I don't see them further stripping assets to build up a massive naval armarda.

Most of the Vendetta's success came from the AFFS being occupied elsewhere and it facing no serious opposition, not from its own strengths.
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Isanova

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #7 on: 29 February 2012, 21:24:21 »
At one point - I forgot the book, I admit - it was said that the TDF didn't have enough transportation assets to move its entire mech force.

You're thinking of the MoC. The Concordat was short of qualified fighter pilots, going so far as to trade with the OWA in order to get more trained pilots under their arm.
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Crimson Dynamo

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #8 on: 29 February 2012, 22:18:15 »
RATs do not provide or even imply commonality of designs.

Native production can account for the Leopard, Union/Trojan Blockade Runner, and PW refits of those designs.

Is converting a troop-carrying DropShip to it's Pocket WarShip configuration difficult to do?

The other thing you have to consider is that the TC has been short on any sort of aerospace asset since the beginning of the Succession Wars. At one point - I forgot the book, I admit - it was said that the TDF didn't have enough transportation assets to move its entire mech force. Given that they were in the middle of a war that they were thoroughly losing, I don't see them further stripping assets to build up a massive naval armarda.

Not really disputing this, but I just noticed how heavy the Taurian aerospace corps is. In TRO 3039, the Taurians build the Seydlitz, Slayer, and Chippewa domestically, together with the Thunderbird in TRO 3075. Not being up on Taurian industry, I'm surprised and impressed by the range of fighters they've got/they had for themselves, especially in the heavy category. If the TDF still had any Troikas left, I'd bet they would be with the Vendetta too. Throw in some Capellan commercial exports like the Transit and the Transgressor, and that's a pretty respectable range of fighters to be kicking out of the bays.
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"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #9 on: 29 February 2012, 22:52:42 »
TCN has invested in heavy fighters, pushing for survivability over all else since they are so hard pressed that they almost value the fighter pilots over the fighters. Though, they do also produce some light fighters too.
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #10 on: 01 March 2012, 06:49:40 »
Quote
You're thinking of the MoC. The Concordat was short of qualified fighter pilots, going so far as to trade with the OWA in order to get more trained pilots under their arm.

No, it's also true of the Concordat. We already discussed the matter of the Concordat's navy in another thread; it consists of 120 vessels, DropShips and JumpShips combined. And I produced a quote from HB: MPS (p. 115) that explicitly said that due to the Taurian strategy of projecting their defences as far forward as possible and attacking enemy JumpShips, the navy was then unable to provide many vessels for any other duty. All vessels not directly assigned to 'Mech regiments are under the direct control of the Transport and Services Division, so the inference is obvious.

Then there's the matter of the Concordat being given a low (300, IIRC) number of AeroSpace Fighters- its explicit force total, over directly assigned ASF support, fleet assets, and so on- adding to the issue.

Quote
Is converting a troop-carrying DropShip to it's Pocket WarShip configuration difficult to do?

Depends.

Taking the Concordat as an example, the biggest thing they have domestically is the Union, and their heavy AeroSpace is pretty much non-existent. They have no known source of capital or sub-capital weaponry, even for the systems that were used by the Vandenberg, a Vincent Mk. 39.

I can believe that if they got a hold of the launchers they could supply the missiles with some Blakist or Capellan assistance, and since they've got the manufacturing lines for the Leopard and Union having them build new or convert vessels of those classes.

However, the Mule is about three times larger than the Union, and if even a Monarch goes wrong the Concordat has to ship in parts from the Successor States to fix it.

So it's a matter of degree more than anything else.

Quote
Not really disputing this, but I just noticed how heavy the Taurian aerospace corps is. In TRO 3039, the Taurians build the Seydlitz, Slayer, and Chippewa domestically, together with the Thunderbird in TRO 3075. Not being up on Taurian industry, I'm surprised and impressed by the range of fighters they've got/they had for themselves, especially in the heavy category. If the TDF still had any Troikas left, I'd bet they would be with the Vendetta too. Throw in some Capellan commercial exports like the Transit and the Transgressor, and that's a pretty respectable range of fighters to be kicking out of the bays.

The Concordat has not, however, built all of those throughout its history.

Both the Chippewa and Slayer are very recent additions; the former through industrial espionage, and the latter through foreign investment from the Outworlds Alliance.

The Thunderbird, as with 'Mechs of similar size, is not especially common.

Quote
TCN has invested in heavy fighters, pushing for survivability over all else since they are so hard pressed that they almost value the fighter pilots over the fighters. Though, they do also produce some light fighters too.

Whilst the mass may have crept up, the Concordat's technology still lags; newer and upgraded Sphere designs that are lighter will still (frequently) outclass them in combat.
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Isanova

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #11 on: 01 March 2012, 10:00:36 »
120 vessels combined for four fleets, there is a separate transport arm of the TCN completely. Read the bit in Periphery 2nd. Plus there is a civilian merchant marine of who knows how large, but large enough to explore, colonize and sustain a large territory.

The strategic doctrine of those four fleets being used to (in theory) attack enemy shipping and logistics areas doesn't preclude their transport and civilian shipping being able to operate. In fact we see this in action when the Vendetta comes into play and the TCN grows much bolder, they are still able to move units around and even run the blockade of Pleadies seemingly with regularity.

IIRC a good portion of TDF regiments have integral transport assets from FM: Periphery. Probably those are part of the transport fleet.

I would point out that we have no idea that the union is the largest thing they produce. Civilian dropship construction is not covered, nor do we have any idea what the past 35 years of advancement has wrought.

Per canon, the TDF's fighter cadre consists of highly trained, small numbers in typically heavy fighters. In the TDN light and medium fighters are rare, as heavy, armored fighters are the norm. Thunderbirds are likely their most common fighter, both from long age of production, survivability, and an emphasis on picking heavier fighters for their limited number of pilots.

Note: Heavy ASF isn't always a good thing, as it really affects ASF tactics not being able to dogfight with lighter units. It forces TCN to operate in a layered manner, with units covering eachother's backs. They don't effectively have the ability to chase down and dogfight. It's more a turtle-in-space approach than sharks in the water.
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #12 on: 01 March 2012, 10:09:26 »
I will point out that the TDF does have access to purchase naval-grade weaponry from Capellan suppliers,

that they possibly have access to supplies from Blakist allies,

and I would conjecture that a lot of the butt-loads of money invested into the Vincent for a decade or two went into building capital-scale armor/weapons manufacturing. Because...

- The TDF's approach to tech upgrade wasn't to import everything shiny from the CC for a quick upgrade (the way the MoC did) but to invest in upgrading their own production. It stands to reason they would want the same for ammo/armament on the Vincent.
- The TC's typical defense-crazy focus would make local-build of such armaments even more in the Concordat's fashion, wanting to use them for ground-based planetary defense.
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MadVoorpak

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #13 on: 01 March 2012, 16:34:17 »
Dont forget asteroid based defences as well.

Stormfury

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #14 on: 01 March 2012, 18:20:56 »
Quote
120 vessels combined for four fleets, there is a separate transport arm of the TCN completely. Read the bit in Periphery 2nd.

P. 115, HB: MPS:

"Standard fleet doctrine requires the fleet forces to engage the enemy as far forward as possible... This strategy leaves relatively few vessels bbehind to defend the Taurian homewords..."


"Except for those vessels assigned to specific 'Mech regiments, [the Transport and Service Division] controls all military DropShips and JumpShips."

The Concordat's standard naval doctrine leaves few vessels for anything other than attempting to attack enemy JumpShips or other assets during times of war. As I said, the outcome of this is pretty obvious.

Quote
Plus there is a civilian merchant marine of who knows how large, but large enough to explore, colonize and sustain a large territory.

The Concordat's economy is in rough enough shape even at the best of times; subsuming those to act as transport assets will do to the Concordat the same as it did to the Suns during the Fourth Succession War- except that the problems will be more acute since the enconomy depends even more heavily on those few vessels, and it has neither the wealth of the Suns nor Lyran backing to fund the recovery.

Quote
IIRC a good portion of TDF regiments have integral transport assets from FM: Periphery. Probably those are part of the transport fleet.

I find no such references, merely the same text as in HB: MPS about Taurian naval doctrine and its effects on the disposition of such assets.

Quote
I would point out that we have no idea that the union is the largest thing they produce.

It has been so ever since we saw anything of the Taurians' capabilities.

Quote
Civilian dropship construction is not covered, nor do we have any idea what the past 35 years of advancement has wrought.

In the HB series, all construction firms of note are presented, along with their products. The civilian firms are covered, and do not include DropShip manufacturers; likewise, the other books in the series have provided entries where such entities are producing DropShips.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Concordat has very limited infrastructure. What they have is reasonably good given the size and nature of the state, but they do not have that much in absolute terms.

Quote
Per canon, the TDF's fighter cadre consists of highly trained, small numbers in typically heavy fighters. In the TDN light and medium fighters are rare, as heavy, armored fighters are the norm. Thunderbirds are likely their most common fighter, both from long age of production, survivability, and an emphasis on picking heavier fighters for their limited number of pilots.

This is something that has occurred over a period of centuries, and there is nothing to indicate that the Thunderbird is their most common fighter. The concordat had been heavily importing the Slayer from the Outworlds Alliance for a very long time, and had acquired a factory for it via Outworlds in the form of the Wingman Enterprises investment.

Quote
I will point out that the TDF does have access to purchase naval-grade weaponry from Capellan suppliers,

But had not done so by the time of either FM: P or H: MPS, which note the sorry state of the Vandenberg despite the massive investment in repairing it, the length of time it has been worked on, and the heavy assistance provided by the Capellan Confederation.

Quote
that they possibly have access to supplies from Blakist allies,

A reasonable inference.

Quote
and I would conjecture that a lot of the butt-loads of money invested into the Vincent for a decade or two went into building capital-scale armor/weapons manufacturing. Because...

Based upon what evidence?

Quote
- The TDF's approach to tech upgrade wasn't to import everything shiny from the CC for a quick upgrade (the way the MoC did) but to invest in upgrading their own production. It stands to reason they would want the same for ammo/armament on the Vincent.

What they might want and what they are capable of achieving on their own- especially since it suits both the Capellans and Word to have the Taurians dependant on them- are entirely different things, however. The ability of the Concordat to build high-technology items is severely limited; by 3067 they were still at Technology Level D*, classified as Late Succession Wars because much of the technological advancements filtering in had not arrived until the Trinity Alliance. No Periphery power, even the Taurian Concordat, had been able to regain any advanced technologies on the back of their own efforts (p. 169), and the same entry also states that the Magistracy and Outworlds Alliance- but not the Concordat- have made impressive strides in modernising their infrastructure. Indeed, looking at the units the Concordat likes to use and considering that prior to 3065 the only native advanced technologies available were Streak SRM-2s, Ferro-Fibrous Armour, and the Medium Pulse Laser, if anyone is going to be charged with importing "everything shiny" for their military it is very much the Concordat which is guilty.

Quote
- The TC's typical defense-crazy focus would make local-build of such armaments even more in the Concordat's fashion, wanting to use them for ground-based planetary defense.

And yet, there is absolutely no evidence an attempt was made to do so, successful or otherwise.

*The Capellan Confederation is also listed as Tech Level D, though it is clearly more advanced across the board than the Concordat. It had yet to make the transition to Technology Level E as the other Houses had. EDIT: I thought it was '65; the article is actually for '75, my bad.
« Last Edit: 02 March 2012, 04:01:38 by Stormfury »
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Isanova

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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #15 on: 01 March 2012, 18:55:29 »
P. 115, HB: MPS:

"Standard fleet doctrine requires the fleet forces to engage the enemy as far forward as possible... This strategy leaves relatively few vessels bbehind to defend the Taurian homewords..."


"Except for those vessels assigned to specific 'Mech regiments, [the Transport and Service Division] controls all military DropShips and JumpShips."

The Concordat's standard naval doctrine leaves few vessels for anything other than attempting to attack enemy JumpShips or other assets during times of war. As I said, the outcome of this is pretty obvious.
Yes, they use the naval forces to attack enemy logistics. During the Jihad it seems they split between a naval arm watching the CP and the Vendetta. This doesn't preclude their transport units remaining as transport units. As I said, it's pretty evident the TDF didn't face trouble moving their units during the war.
The Concordat's economy is in rough enough shape even at the best of times; subsuming those to act as transport assets will do to the Concordat the same as it did to the Suns during the Fourth Succession War- except that the problems will be more acute since the enconomy depends even more heavily on those few vessels, and it has neither the wealth of the Suns nor Lyran backing to fund the recovery.

I find no such references, merely the same text as in HB: MPS about Taurian naval doctrine and its effects on the disposition of such assets.

It has been so ever since we saw anything of the Taurians' capabilities.

In the HB series, all construction firms of note are presented, along with their products. The civilian firms are covered, and do not include DropShip manufacturers; likewise, the other books in the series have provided entries where such entities are producing DropShips.
well it will be answered when the periphery objectives info comes out.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Concordat has very limited infrastructure. What they have is reasonably good given the size and nature of the state, but they do not have that much in absolute terms.
What?!?

The Concordat, in the 3020s, had something like over 1/3 of their planets with heavy factories on them... and many of that were coveted heavy battlemechs. It's very safe to say that the Concordat, particularly Hell's Heart worlds, is very heavily industrialized. That does not mean they are a match to Quentin, Hesperus II, Grand Base... but they are still churning out a lot of mechs... so much so that surplus sales are a significant portion of their economy. 

This is something that has occurred over a period of centuries, and there is nothing to indicate that the Thunderbird is their most common fighter. The concordat had been heavily importing the Slayer from the Outworlds Alliance for a very long time, and had acquired a factory for it via Outworlds in the form of the Wingman Enterprises investment.
Writeup states that the TDN is compromised mostly of heavy fighters. Thunderbird is one of their main heavy fighters, with IIRC two production lines. Produced it for a long time. There are new fighters from the OWA and Detroit sure, but old core fighters are heavy. I don't think it'd be stingy to say 40% to 45% of their ASF are T-Birds, but that is my opinion. What is fact is that they are largely made up of heavy fighters, and the TC produces a lot of T-Birds.

But had not done so by the time of either FM: P or H: MPS, which note the sorry state of the Vandenberg despite the massive investment in repairing it, the length of time it has been worked on, and the heavy assistance provided by the Capellan Confederation.
Nobody knows what's up with the Vandenburg, but they have to be spending the cash on something. For a nation that is devoting significant portions of it's GDP to the project... nothing else makes sense. I'm not going to say "well it's all gone to graft" or "stolen by pirates" which is about the only other realistic explanations. 

Based upon what evidence?

What they might want and what they are capable of achieving on their own- especially since it suits both the Capellans and Word to have the Taurians dependant on them- are entirely different things, however. The ability of the Concordat to build high-technology items is severely limited; by 3067 they were still at Technology Level D*, classified as Late Succession Wars because much of the technological advancements filtering in had not arrived until the Trinity Alliance. No Periphery power, even the Taurian Concordat, had been able to regain any advanced technologies on the back of their own efforts (p. 169), and the same entry also states that the Magistracy and Outworlds Alliance- but not the Concordat- have made impressive strides in modernising their infrastructure. Indeed, looking at the units the Concordat likes to use and considering that prior to 3065 the only native advanced technologies available were Streak SRM-2s, Ferro-Fibrous Armour, and the Medium Pulse Laser, if anyone is going to be charged with importing "everything shiny" for their military it is very much the Concordat which is guilty.
I noted what lead to that conclusion.

TC gained FFA and SSRM-2 on their own efforts, at least initially. TC produces XL engines, Endo, ER PPCs and more on their own. During the war they were producing everything from light autocannons to AC ammo to new PPCs. Look at the fluff on the Asterion and elsewhere for why the TC isn't a big user of Stealth or Mimetic armor. This is even literally stated as the set policy of one of their Calderons for tech development.

TC didn't make as much advancement as the MoC in infrastructure because in 3025-3050s they already had a strong and stable infrastructure. The MoC did not. MoC gained a tech and size leap by selling goods to a civilian-goods starved market and tying themselves to the CC for parts and equipment. Even with their late advances in production their military could not keep up it's own logistics solo. The TC can and did, despite the carnage and damage.

And yet, there is absolutely no evidence an attempt was made to do so, successful or otherwise.

*The Capellan Confederation is also listed as Tech Level D, though it is clearly more advanced across the board than the Concordat. It had yet to make the transition to Technology Level E as the other Houses had.
There's a difference in figuring levels like that. The tech rating in 3085 is after suffering a particularly harsh hit to core infrastructure. The TC was fine pre war. I'm actually surprised at the advanced technologies coming out of the Concordat in the newer variants and info.

They don't have the flashiest toys around nor should they... the MoC does but sold their soul and sovereignty for it. The OWA does but they had to enslave themselves to do it. The periphery, and Concordat in particular, isn't about the best of the best: it's about rugged durability. TC, aside from the "Lets convert our Archer line into a primitive rocket mech" and other missteps, has gone about the tech game exactly as they should have. Sought out technology, but take the time to ensure they can supply it before adopting it.
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #16 on: 01 March 2012, 19:05:56 »
As Regards the Vincent...

I do not know what they are doing with it nor what has cost so much and taken so long. I'm not prepared to believe they are refitting it into an entirely new corvette design despite that being possible & the Vincent being described as modular. I'm not prepared to say they are building a warship yard because I think they don't deserve one nor could afford it.

I do however think they would not deploy the Vincent to active service without being able to repair and replace broken parts and supply the NACs and missiles with ammo. The Vendetta being deployed makes sense because it is offered and being supported by Blake, and the dictums of war require it.

To say that they would refit the Vincent without being prepared to support it or repair it is foolish and uncharacteristic to me, so I favor the concept of at least some Barracuda / NAC / Warship Armor factories having been built somewhere in the Concordat.

I would argue, because it makes sense to me, that such a project would have three uses. First, repairing the TCV Vandenburg to operational status. Second, affording the CCN a secondary supply lane in event of catastrophic war for ammo, armor and parts. Third, the potential use in building ground-based capital missiles and/or space defense platforms (Hyades Spec Forces and beyond) on a capital scale. Not envisioning massive battlestations either, but a defense platform able to churn out 8-12 Barracuda missiles isn't unrealistic in my eye as a long-term goal of the Concordat.
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #17 on: 01 March 2012, 19:07:14 »
The Taurian Concordat is not like Davion skid row worlds, Stormfury.
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #18 on: 01 March 2012, 20:04:15 »
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Yes, they use the naval forces to attack enemy logistics. During the Jihad it seems they split between a naval arm watching the CP and the Vendetta. This doesn't preclude their transport units remaining as transport units. As I said, it's pretty evident the TDF didn't face trouble moving their units during the war.

Based on? They had trouble resupplying and reinforcing the Pleiades attackers even before the Jihad was in full swing, and were unable to re-allocate their forces to mount a successful defence against Hansen's Rough Riders, much less the AFFS proper.

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well it will be answered when the periphery objectives info comes out.

Which will post-date the period in question. We already know what the Concordat's capabilities were during the Jihad, and they are not as advanced as you claim.

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The Concordat, in the 3020s, had something like over 1/3 of their planets with heavy factories on them... and many of that were coveted heavy battlemechs. It's very safe to say that the Concordat, particularly Hell's Heart worlds, is very heavily industrialized. That does not mean they are a match to Quentin, Hesperus II, Grand Base... but they are still churning out a lot of mechs... so much so that surplus sales are a significant portion of their economy.

As you note, they were not large producers in terms of volume; so far as exports go, the Taurian Bull has never been particularly strong on the market so export in general is relatively lucrative no matter the field. In any case, having factories for heavy 'Mechs of primarily 3025/Introductory Technology level does not provide for heavy AeroSpace engineering, or the ability to recover lost capital weapons.

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Nobody knows what's up with the Vandenburg, but they have to be spending the cash on something.

Again, we know exactly what's up with the Vandenberg; its condition is so bad it requires essentially a full rebuild, rather than the refurbishment the Taurians are attempting to conduct with massive outside assistance. Anything that can be made locally has to be done at staggering cost due to the technologies involved, and everything else the Capellans are free to conduct price gouging on since they know how desperate the Concordat is to get the vessel operational. They are also free to charge the Concordat an exorbitant rate for their assistance, because the Concordat's choice is between paying that money or having no help at all.

Smartest thing to have done would have been getting the drive core operational and sending her to the Necromo yards, but the Taurians insisted on doing it on-site.

Without outside assistance, the Concordat had no ability to maintain or repair Vandenburg, much less Vendetta- which is mentioned in the JHS series and, I believe, in the Blake Documents section as well.

WarShips are a drain to the coffers of the Great Houses, never mind Periphery budgets.

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I noted what lead to that conclusion.

TC gained FFA and SSRM-2 on their own efforts, at least initially. TC produces XL engines, Endo, ER PPCs and more on their own. During the war they were producing everything from light autocannons to AC ammo to new PPCs. Look at the fluff on the Asterion and elsewhere for why the TC isn't a big user of Stealth or Mimetic armor. This is even literally stated as the set policy of one of their Calderons for tech development.

It's not a conclusion, it is a statement of fact; p. 169 specifically states that no Periphery  power obtained advanced technology on their own efforts, and MSII provides us with tables to indicate when factions have useful access to advanced technologies. Aside from those three exceptions mentioned, the Concordat has nothing until the Trinity Alliance.

The Concordat's ability to recover or create technologies is clearly limited; capital missiles were not recovered until 3051 by the Federated Suns, and they were the simplest of the naval-grade weapons.

Using captured equipment for reverse-engineering (perhaps with Blakist assistance to boot) or stealing the schematics is one thing. Redeveloping the ability to construct a class of weaponry more advanced again, without any such effort being noted in any source, without any supporting infrastructure to upgrade for the effort, is something else entirely.

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TC didn't make as much advancement as the MoC in infrastructure because in 3025-3050s they already had a strong and stable infrastructure. The MoC did not. MoC gained a tech and size leap by selling goods to a civilian-goods starved market and tying themselves to the CC for parts and equipment. Even with their late advances in production their military could not keep up it's own logistics solo. The TC can and did, despite the carnage and damage.

Alternatively, the Taurian efforts were neither as concentrated or successful as those undertaken by the Magistracy or Outworlds Alliance.

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There's a difference in figuring levels like that. The tech rating in 3085 is after suffering a particularly harsh hit to core infrastructure.

Those tech levels are not from 3085, but from a time in Taurian history which you note as having been remarkable for the amount of advanced technologies they were using.

The Periphery has always lagged behind the Great Houses. It is what it is.

Also, basic WarShip armour is the same as 'Mech or AeroSpace Fighter-grade standard armour. If the Vandenberg had used that, or even ferro-aluminium, they might have been able to make the repairs locally. Unfortunately, it uses the second-most advanced type of naval-grade armour available.

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The Taurian Concordat is not like Davion skid row worlds, Stormfury.

I know. It is, however, closer to those than it is to some of the most advanced worlds of the Inner Sphere, which is the kind of capacity you are positing the Concordat as having.
« Last Edit: 01 March 2012, 20:06:01 by Stormfury »
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #19 on: 01 March 2012, 20:16:50 »
I didnt say the TC was building warship weapon factories on their own. They have the Capellans and the Blakist helping them, so the tech isn't so much an issue as just building the factories and training the people. It's entirely do-able, considering the dumping of money into the repair job began with the Trinity alliance.

Also, barely functional is still functional... it might have been able to jump, but the risk of it misjumping isnt one the TC wanted to take. That would argue at least putting the money into a space yard capable of repairing the core, which is one of the two extremely difficult parts to warships (the other being conventional engines)
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Re: Task Force Vendetta
« Reply #20 on: 01 March 2012, 20:31:21 »
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I didnt say the TC was building warship weapon factories on their own. They have the Capellans and the Blakist helping them, so the tech isn't so much an issue as just building the factories and training the people. It's entirely do-able, considering the dumping of money into the repair job began with the Trinity alliance.

There is, however, no evidence to support the idea that was taking place. Such an effort would be a major and notweworthy undertaking.

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Also, barely functional is still functional... it might have been able to jump, but the risk of it misjumping isnt one the TC wanted to take. That would argue at least putting the money into a space yard capable of repairing the core, which is one of the two extremely difficult parts to warships (the other being conventional engines)

The Vandenberg wasn't even "barely functional."

By the outbreak of the Jihad, neither the K-F core or planetary drive worked, the armour needed replacement, and it needed new weapons. About all they seem to have managed to do was replace the internal wiring and get systems like life support back on-line.

Everything we see about the Vandenberg makes specific reference to repairing it on-site, which is made possible only with outside assistance and at extreme cost. There is never any mention of constructing a shipyard, Corvette-sized or otherwise.
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*