Author Topic: What would be the impact of allowing capital grade DF weapons on dropships?  (Read 3762 times)

Korzon77

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Pretty much what it says. What happens if you can start installing capital weapons systems on dropships design and setting wise?

haesslich

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I'm imagining the death of the Warship as an effective unit, as any old dropship can become a super PWS which can cheaply blow dreadnoughts out of space. That, and dropships suddenly find a new niche on the battlefield as miniature ortillery platforms which can fire at much closer ranges. Imagine close air support with a NAC/40 or NPPC.
« Last Edit: 06 December 2015, 23:38:45 by haesslich »

vidar

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Well it depends on the restrictions placed on the mounting, and the si/armor of dropships.  With the needs for fire control, heat, and ammo will limit the number of weapon.  But with out limiting the mounting by arc or some kind of spinal mount dropships can get scary.  You end up with battleriders out of traveler.   By not needing the FTL the smaller but more heavy armed dropships are kind of like airplanes and a carrier.  The deliver massive hitting power but limited staying power and moblity.  Good for force projection, but limited for patrol and independent action.

Red Pins

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I've been doing this for years, actually.  Given their mass and heat requirements, they can still be effective, but represent no real change in tactics from Assault DropShips or PWs.

You can cram a couple of these weapons on, but if they aren't concentrated in the forward arc you spent tonnage to carry extras you can't fire.  Frankly, I've found a single laser or gauss weapon in the forward arc and enough speed, armor, AMS, and conventional weapons for AA fire  the most common option.  I went with a laser/nuclear missile option, but most people have figured out that AMS is essential for future WS design by now.
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Hellraiser

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Given how much they mass..........  IMHO.........  Less effective dropships is what happens.

Seriously, non-cap weapons are loads more effective & Missiles let you bombard from orbit & use Nukes if that is your thing.  So Cap-DF-Weaps do nothing for me really.   
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DarthRads

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Spinal mount HNPPC = wave motion gun?

Fallen_Raven

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You see people with little to no armor and big engines piled onto a drone controlled stack of lasers someone called a dropship.

Basically you have munchkins turning dropships into crewed bit weapons from Gundam, and the Potemkin becomes the most deadly ship ever built.
Subtlety is for those who lack a bigger gun.

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Tai Dai Cultist

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I can't help but suspect that the BattleSats were ignominiously dropped from the setting for the same reasons that dropships aren't allowed to have capital weapons.

Medron Pryde

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The same thing that happened when it WAS legal to but cap weapons on DropShips.

Nothing.

DropShips are simply too small to pack in enough weapons to be a credible threat to real WarShips in anything under squadron strength.  Vincent need not apply for the real WarShip label.  ;)

http://www.pryderockindustries.com/humansphere/ddb/master_list.php#DROPSHIPS

I did some interesting updated DropShips with cap weapons for my Human Sphere universe, but they were generally of limited use against real WarShips...
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croaker

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Let's take a look at the actual numbers, here.

Take the Castrum, for an example of what the "assault PWS" can be.

8 Medium and 36 Light Sub-Capital Cannons. 11,200 tons, for a total potential damage output of 132 Capital-scale damage.

A comparable battery of NAC/20s would have about 30% more range, it's true.
But to have the same damage output it would have to mass 50% more - 17,500 tons for 7 NAC/20.
NAC would build up 420 heat, compared to 672 for subcaps
And it would cost 35,000,000 c-bills (and cost 168,000 per combat round of firing, just in ammunition), compared to 18,120,000 and 324,000 per volley's worth of ammo.

So, there are clearly some real tradeoffs to think about here.
Capitals cost twice as much to build, but half as much to operate in combat.
They have a noticeable range advantage, though not as much as over conventional weaponry.
They require fewer crew to operate.

Even after adding in the mass required for additional heat sinks and crew accommodations, the capital weapons pay a significant mass penalty.

Even at 100,000 tons total mass, the Castrum does not have that much extra room to play around with. It cannot afford that mass penalty.

More than that, the subcapitals are more versatile - more accurate when firing on anything other than another warship, for example, and with more of them, more capable of bracket fire and engaging numerous smaller targets.

They can also provide more precise, pinpoint ortillery fire, rather than the massive craters than NAC/20 fire would produce.

And, most of all, given the in-game explanation for why it won't work, they don't require a minimum SI to represent the massive structural bracing required to make them a stable firing platform.

Kovax

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The biggest issue I see is the aiming penalty to hit a dropship with a capital-class weapon.  The DS can snipe from extreme range, and there's not a lot the warship can do about it, until/unless it lands that "lucky hit" with the really big guns and the DS simply evaporates.

From a cost perspective, I don't see that big of a problem; it's prohibitively expensive, and limits the DS pretty much to that single role as a long-range sniping platform, which is easily countered by a group of ASFs.

HobbesHurlbut

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The biggest issue I see is the aiming penalty to hit a dropship with a capital-class weapon.  The DS can snipe from extreme range, and there's not a lot the warship can do about it, until/unless it lands that "lucky hit" with the really big guns and the DS simply evaporates.

From a cost perspective, I don't see that big of a problem; it's prohibitively expensive, and limits the DS pretty much to that single role as a long-range sniping platform, which is easily countered by a group of ASFs.
For extreme range, the capital missile already do it the best for the DropShips. For other capital weapons you need a group of them to take advantage of bracketed firing. A DropShip may be able to mount only one capital bay of nonmissile weapons. A WarShip can mount multiple bays. And if the WarShip happen to have some capital missiles to reply with...

And correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the to-hit penalty only apply to crafts of 500 tons or less?
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Medron Pryde

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Unless the rules have changed, the targeting penalty is for small craft only.

I can't remember the exact tonnage limit, but DropShips in general are considered large craft and targeted normally by capital weapons.  Unless the rules have changed and I'm not aware of it.
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Hellraiser

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It was originally mentioned as 500 tons IIRC.
The Vampire was basically the 1 Dropship that got away with not getting pasted easily
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Medron Pryde

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Yeah...I have a vague memory of the Vampire being small enough to be considered a small craft...

Kinda like how the Behemoth used to take two dropship collars...

;)
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