Author Topic: Return of Fire & Blood  (Read 5975 times)

timp77

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Return of Fire & Blood
« on: 30 September 2023, 15:51:13 »
Will there be a return of the Fire Mandrill & Blood Spirits in the ilclan Era? Smoke Jaguars came back so why not the Fire and Blood clans.

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #1 on: 30 September 2023, 16:35:35 »
Wolves wouldn't know the Spirits had been Annihilated. And they hadn't been destroyed by the Inner Sphere but the Clans. Wolves had believed only the Clans could annihilate a Clan. Not a Inner Sphere power. There are hints though that Blood Spirits of some type are in the Inner Sphere during the Dark Age.
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #2 on: 30 September 2023, 16:46:13 »
Well as a Clan, they're gone...

As Bloodline, their property of others, mostly Homies.

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timp77

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #3 on: 30 September 2023, 17:59:33 »
The rage ship is unaccounted. There is no mention of it being destroyed or abandoned.  Also Bloodlines can restart a clan again.

Sjhernan3060

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #4 on: 30 September 2023, 18:12:57 »
The rage ship is unaccounted. There is no mention of it being destroyed or abandoned.  Also Bloodlines can restart a clan again.

As a lover of both clans I support this and encourage you to post away in their posts

Church14

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #5 on: 30 September 2023, 21:35:17 »
There’s no in universe or out of universe reason really to bring them back beyond fan service. There’s also good reasons in and out of universe to not resurrect them.

One of the key reasons not to is that every hour of work spent on them is an hour not spent on current factions. We already have a lot of existing factions that get little to no lore or POV characters.

Worth noting that the resurrection of the Jags is a painfully stupid plot point in and out of universe. Using them as the baseline “we did this once” isn’t a great plan.

That said, I would’ve preferred Fire Mandrills survived and made it to the sphere (or got resurrected in the sphere) over some of the others who did. Their schtick was more engaging to me than ravens, wolves, cats, jags, or falcons.

Metallgewitter

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #6 on: 01 October 2023, 03:39:25 »
I would say the Spirits are dead. Deader then dead. Their entire genetic repository was buried under tons of rubble if not outright vaporized when the Adders bombed their last world to bits. Unless we get a "and then some Spirirts resurfaced from a secret world in the IS" spiel

rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #7 on: 01 October 2023, 03:56:50 »
It's far from a spoiler at this point, but WoR had a purpose - to eliminate extra factions deemed unneeded and do so while telling a cool story. 

It sucks for the Clan Blood Spirit fans, which there were many and still are lots, but their faction of choice was deemed by the author and developers to be expendable.

I don't think any of the Clans that perished during the Wars of Reaving will ever come back.  We'll see the surviving Home Clans before then.
« Last Edit: 01 October 2023, 03:59:45 by rebs »
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Alan Grant

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #8 on: 01 October 2023, 08:14:52 »
The rage ship is unaccounted. There is no mention of it being destroyed or abandoned.  Also Bloodlines can restart a clan again.

The Rage was captured by the Coyotes. This is explicitly mentioned in Wars of Reaving page 112. When the Adders make their first attempt to go to Tamaron in 3072 and discover the Rage among the Coyote fleet defending the system, and are defeated by them. The Rage gets specifically called out for "Crossing the T" of the Adder warship Eagle and crushing her nose. But then the Eagle goes haywire and flies out of control. Then it's noted that the Rage transmitted some kind of localized HPG burst to the Eagle.

We don't hear of the Rage again, but we know the naval battle over Tameron in 3074 (WoR page 143) left a lot of destroyed ships. When the Vipers jumped in with all of their fleet they found the Tameron system SDS and 2 full naval stars defending Tameron. We don't know the names of all the warships involved but since the Rage was part of the defense of Tameron in 3072, it makes sense that she would be there again as one of those 10-12 warships (2 stars) in 3074.

The Vipers Leviathan Prime is said to have left a "string of broken hulls" behind it as the Viper fleet approached the planet. Until the Texas-class Ancestral Home takes out the Leviathan Prime by initiating a jump that destroys both ships.

It's said that the naval battle continued for a week after the ground assault on Tamaron started. It specifically names one Coyote warship surrendering while two others jump away to link up with the Coyotes at Kirin. (all these warships are specifically named).

That means out of "2 complete naval stars", so 10-12 warships total, 7-9 were destroyed. We aren't given the names of those vessels.

Whether its prior to that assault on Tameron (as part of the Coyote/Society operations across the Homeworlds) or whether (to my mind, more likely) the Rage died in the assault on Tameron, possibly as one of the 7-9 warships taken out by the Vipers in the assault on Tameron, what we know for sure is that the Rage became a Clan Coyote ship.

EDIT: If a missing Mandrill ship is what you are looking for, a better bet would be the CFM Firetender of Kindraa Faraday-Tanaga. No references to her at all in WoR. Though Faraday-Tanaga got stuck on Atreus under attack by the Streaking Mist and then later shattered by a plague, and then the survivors were absorbed into the Blood Spirits. She probably died trying to support the Kindraa on Atreus, or as part of the Blood Spirit fleet in the Viper annihilation. But that's pure speculation and it certainly leaves room for the idea that something else happened to her.

Two other missing ones are the Firehold and Reaver. Kindraa Payne-Beyl-Grant's ground forces died on Arcadia trying to launch a Reaving Trial against the Ghost Bears, but it isn't stated what happened to their fleet (except the CFM Anathema, which was discovered in complete shutdown in the Marshall system later by the Stone Lions). Right after that the Bears left the Homeworlds. Could be fun if one or both was scooped up by the Bears in the process or otherwise went off on some adventure we haven't heard about.
« Last Edit: 01 October 2023, 09:43:22 by Alan Grant »

Starfury

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #9 on: 01 October 2023, 09:59:08 »
Highly unlikely. The Mandrills and the Blood Spirits were leveled during the Wars of Reaving and their bloodlines eliminated.  The Jaguars survived mostly due to having a leftover IS settlement, connections to the Republic of the Sphere, and Victor Steiner-Davion'a guilt. 

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #10 on: 01 October 2023, 10:41:18 »
I think the Blood Spirits are cool as hell, but my understanding is that they were worn down by decades of bad decisions, then created a secret enclave they could come back from, and then were eliminated in that secret enclave by people who hated them.

The Ice Hellions and even the Fire Mandrills had a little of themselves surviving in other clans, but the Spirits were written to round out the Clan roster, suck, create the Stooping Hawk, and then die.
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BlakesBestBoi

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #11 on: 01 October 2023, 10:48:08 »
Well the Blood Spirits and Fire Mandrills are my favourite Clans so I'd kill to see them come back. Since we're getting jack to do with the Clan Homeworlds for the next few years, however, I wouldn't bet on it.

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #12 on: 01 October 2023, 10:56:35 »
The community is pretty accepting of fanfiction. Murder is easier than writing, but you could take a shot at writing your own "Spirits/Mandrills survive" story.
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #13 on: 01 October 2023, 12:52:46 »
^^^^^^^^^^^ this.

Send it to Shrapnel, pretty sure if you wrote a "Ballard of Mandrill" (tm), along with a sensible entourage, a Cluster could be out there, homeless, but alive.

Add in a pirate / Dark Caste raid for supplies, maybe an old long forgotten Exodus Road world that time forgot?

And if that gets approved, there's your hook.

Enough untainted to settle, maybe they collected a small cache of Iron Wombs to eek out a Binary at a time, are forced to Freebirth it with a core of Trueborn elites, pick your survivor Kindraa, get a mixed TO&E, add a handful of units, civilian castes, technicians, several escaping merchants for possible use. Include some surviving scientists and go with that.

Even if it's FanFic, try your hand, post it in the proper thread and who knows...

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timp77

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #14 on: 01 October 2023, 18:42:44 »
There is always hope for these two clans. Too many factions..then why create the Stone Lions?

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #15 on: 01 October 2023, 19:06:35 »
There is always hope for these two clans. Too many factions..then why create the Stone Lions?

because Homeworld Clan Tanks...?
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #16 on: 01 October 2023, 19:18:44 »
Zeta Galaxy, Clan Hell's Horses defended Niles and all outlying Enclaves. Having never been to the IS, they were blamed for bringing the IS Tainted home.

But Zeta never left and the Clan was mostly creating Harvest Trials in the Clan OZ.

It was the Abjuration of the IS part that lead to them being called tainted, ensuring the Trials.

They fought fiercely enough and ensured proper zellbrigen, even when they lost the Trials, that the Star Adders proclaimed them a new clan. Which helped them establishing their identity.

But current Homie Clans are somewhat lacking in info, post ilClan.

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because Homeworld Clan Tanks...?

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« Last Edit: 01 October 2023, 19:20:23 by truetanker »
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tassa_kay

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #17 on: 01 October 2023, 19:25:17 »
There is always hope for these two clans.

There is not, I'm afraid.

Quote
Too many factions..then why create the Stone Lions?

The Homeworld Clans that died did so because TPTB were fleshing out previously-established canon that "no less than five Clans" were destroyed in the Wars of Reaving, as mentioned in the novel A Rending of Falcons, not necessarily because of some "too many factions" reason.

The Lions were solely created as a Star Adder political ploy to tilt the scales in their favor.
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #18 on: 01 October 2023, 19:39:08 »
The Lions were solely created as a Star Adder political ploy to tilt the scales in their favor.

You, me, circle... Quiaff?   :wink:

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tassa_kay

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #19 on: 01 October 2023, 19:45:45 »
You, me, circle... Quiaff?   :wink:

Pfft, I only get in the Circle with real Clans.  :laugh:
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #20 on: 01 October 2023, 19:48:36 »
Wolf Empire lackey...

 :grin:

TT
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Ghaz

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #21 on: 01 October 2023, 20:10:34 »
There is always hope for these two clans. Too many factions..then why create the Stone Lions?

Politics, purely and simply as a political move to sway the Grand Council in favor of the Star Adders.

rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #22 on: 01 October 2023, 23:18:19 »
I was just repeating what the old line developer said and what the author said, back about 12 years ago.  None of that precludes other reasons. 
« Last Edit: 01 October 2023, 23:27:15 by rebs »
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #23 on: 01 October 2023, 23:33:56 »
I was just repeating what the old line developer said and what the author said, back about 12 years ago.  None of that precludes other reasons.

I'm aware, hence why I said "not necessarily".  :wink:
« Last Edit: 01 October 2023, 23:36:10 by tassa_kay »
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My Personal Units: Thuggee Warrior House Nagah (Capellan Confederation), 29th Blood Drinkers (Clan Blood Spirit), Nightmare Galaxy (Clan Hell's Horses), 1st Raven Rook Cluster (Raven Alliance)
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Sartris

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #24 on: 01 October 2023, 23:42:53 »
Send it to Shrapnel, pretty sure if you wrote a "Ballard of Mandrill" (tm), along with a sensible entourage, a Cluster could be out there, homeless, but alive.

any shrapnel submission regarding fates of the assumed-dead homeworld clans will be rejected. it's the Chernobyl exclusion zone of product topics.

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rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #25 on: 02 October 2023, 00:11:44 »
I'm aware, hence why I said "not necessarily".  :wink:

I saw that after posting, so it goes...  :smilie_happy_thumbup:
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Church14

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #26 on: 02 October 2023, 07:38:58 »
The Lions were solely created as a Star Adder political ploy to tilt the scales in their favor.

No clan Khan would create a puppet clan clearly just to get disproportionate amounts of yes-men votes in a council. How could you suggest…

looks at Terra, 3151

…such a thing?

truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #27 on: 02 October 2023, 09:35:09 »
Yeah...

"Sasha" might rollover in his glass coffin...

 :wink:

TT
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rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #28 on: 02 October 2023, 14:27:03 »
No one can say that the Clans don't know how to game their own system whenever they feel it's necessary. 

And no matter how many other Clans they point at and shriek about "Taint!", the Home Clans are just as corrupt as the rest.  It's just their own brand of corruption that suits them.
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BrianDavion

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #29 on: 02 October 2023, 21:40:36 »
No clan Khan would create a puppet clan clearly just to get disproportionate amounts of yes-men votes in a council. How could you suggest…

looks at Terra, 3151

…such a thing?

Jade Wolves come to mind too
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #30 on: 03 October 2023, 07:14:02 »
Zeta Galaxy, Clan Hell's Horses defended Niles and all outlying Enclaves. Having never been to the IS, they were blamed for bringing the IS Tainted home.
They fought fiercely enough and ensured proper zellbrigen, even when they lost the Trials, that the Star Adders proclaimed them a new clan. Which helped them establishing their identity.

They certainly like Sauna's and lots of whippings  :evil:

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #31 on: 03 October 2023, 11:41:47 »
Well Niles has one of the few undamaged Yardslips left, unlike Lum...

That calls for a fiercely defense, lose the system, lose the slip.

As is, the York Brimstone, the two Lola IIIs, Red Knight and Anathema is quite a force for just TWO Galaxies, mostly Binaries worth of Harvest Trial isola.

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Tyler Jorgensson

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #32 on: 03 October 2023, 17:50:19 »
any shrapnel submission regarding fates of the assumed-dead homeworld clans will be rejected. it's the Chernobyl exclusion zone of product topics.

I would make sad ‘Wolverine’ noises but we at least get a mention in said submissions


However….

Nothing says you can’t write about said factions BEFORE their destruction: flesh out a small piece of their history into something more. Look out Turning Points Foster as a good Fire Mandrill example.

The odds that certain clans will make an appearance again in the current timeline are astronomically low as made mention on the posts before this. Now elements of them may make an appearance (Bloodnames, mech/vehicle designs, even mentions of them) but the odds they make an actual appearance back from the dead are almost absolute zero. Very few ‘mysteries’ exist left in BT canon to exploit to that level.

Might you have the Green Ghosts have a couple ex-Blood Spirits? Maybe but they’d be 80-100 years of age: their descendants maybe. But we’re more likely to see say the Ice Hellions as a new Clan because there are at least direct descendants with an active storyline in the Escorpion Empire.


Back on the original topic: I do like the Blood Spirits and the Mandrills for different reasons… mostly they had some good tech at one point lol

truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #33 on: 03 October 2023, 21:12:10 »
And nothing says you can't have Mandrill genes that shows itself when angry.

TT
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Alan Grant

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #34 on: 04 October 2023, 06:29:34 »
Honestly what needs more filling in is the Fire Mandrills early history.

It's always been implied (to me anyway) that the Clan wasn't half bad in the early days. The Kindred Associations or Kindrasc started as a kind of competitiveness to demonstrate their own prowess, and the prowess of their bloodline, an early manifestation of the eugenics program actually shaping the behavior and goals of individual warriors. It was also individual warriors and eventually Bloodname Houses pooling some resources together as allies.

I've always found the Clans Bloodname House politics interesting. And some version of that being told could be an interesting variation on Bloodname House politics. Just taken to a unique place.

There also used to be a lot more Kindraa that we don't have names or information for. Originally 14 of them. Over the decades Clan fans have been eager to learn more about the Clans that were already gone, like Widowmaker and Mongoose. I definitely think there could be some interesting stories to tell about some of the Kindraa that we never got a chance to know.

We also have an exclusive bloodname, Jannik, that never gets a single named reference anywhere. I suspect by the 3050s this is a subordinate Bloodname House to another Kindraa, like Sainze, where all the senior officers tend to be of the leading Bloodname House(s) of that Kindraa and so all the Jannik warriors are subordinates. But it also just leaves room to flesh out that Bloodname, its history, characteristics, etc.

There are some story worthy gaps here for sure, IMO. But I do think it's mostly to be found in the early days of the Clans, or the Golden Century. For the Mandrills those eras probably represented a more hopeful and optimistic time. The closest thing the Mandrills ever had to a golden age.

Feel free to use any of the above for inspiration for story writing.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2023, 06:36:42 by Alan Grant »

rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #35 on: 04 October 2023, 15:07:39 »
I'll go one further - it's been outright stated that the Fire Mandrills had actually became a fairly powerful Clan that was expected to do well in the Revival trials.  That is until they imploded due to being Fire Mandrills.  It was the run-up to Revival that marked their apex of power, while squabbling about Operation Revival was what led to a drop off, then a steady decline from that point onward until they disintegrated during the Wars of Reaving.
« Last Edit: 04 October 2023, 15:23:03 by rebs »
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #36 on: 05 October 2023, 00:35:52 »
I've been idly musing about the Mandrills splitting up Fox-style, where each Clan has a Kindraa enclave that sorta serves as a pseudo-French Foreign Legion for their hosts.

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #37 on: 13 October 2023, 17:20:45 »
if both clans came back to life i think it would be great to see both combine and create a new clan called Spirit Mandrills or Fire Spirits

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #38 on: 17 October 2023, 12:34:47 »
Fire Blood?

Blood Fire?

Bloody Monkey?

Monkey Blood!!1!

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #39 on: 17 October 2023, 21:50:36 »
When will Catalyst update the fate of the home world clans up to current timeline?

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #40 on: 17 October 2023, 22:02:39 »
Hopefully never. Let the Star Adders die the way they lived, in utter obscurity. Best revenge ever.
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #41 on: 17 October 2023, 22:03:55 »
A full hour after you've given up holding your breath... Or about ten or so years...

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #42 on: 18 October 2023, 03:47:11 »
Hopefully never. Let the Star Adders die the way they lived, in utter obscurity. Best revenge ever.
:laugh:
Bad losers the Spirits were when they were alive and even as ghost they still are.
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #43 on: 18 October 2023, 05:28:18 »
:laugh:
Bad losers the Spirits were when they were alive and even as ghost they still are.

Better a "sore loser" than being Clan Pick-Me. :wink:
« Last Edit: 18 October 2023, 05:33:12 by tassa_kay »
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #44 on: 24 October 2023, 20:25:36 »
There has to be someone left for the mandrils and spirits that survived the wars of reavings....somewhere in the stars they wait to emerge.

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #45 on: 24 October 2023, 20:29:40 »
They are hiding in the fan fiction section, waiting for their story to be told.
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #46 on: 24 October 2023, 20:33:04 »
Just like the smoke jaguars and Ice Hellions. Some how fan fiction became reality

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #47 on: 24 October 2023, 20:34:05 »
Let's not forget the Nova cats. Living in the Free Worlds league

rebs

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #48 on: 24 October 2023, 21:38:33 »
The Nova Cats were not destroyed.  The DC is terribly arrogant to claim they completed an annihilation.  They started something that they could not finish, which is typical of them.

The Hellions are no more.  The only stories of them are from the time when they did exist.

The Jaguars were resurrected.  True.

The Mandrills and Blood Spirits still exist in their timeframes.  And maybe they can be resurrected too.  Hell, Clan Star Adder was granted a trial of Absorption of the Blood Spirits, not an Annihilation, so it is conceivably possible. 

Just exceedingly unlikely.

But Fan fiction is not disappearing any time soon.
« Last Edit: 28 October 2023, 16:34:15 by rebs »
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #49 on: 25 October 2023, 07:07:49 »
There has to be someone left for the mandrils and spirits that survived the wars of reavings....somewhere in the stars they wait to emerge.

Well there were hints that surviving Blood Spirits are among the Green Ghosts.
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #50 on: 25 October 2023, 19:16:39 »
Well there were hints that surviving Blood Spirits are among the Green Ghosts.

Where is that mentioned?
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #51 on: 26 October 2023, 03:07:51 »
I want to know that too. From what I found was that the Green Ghosts had equipment from the failed Ice Hellion invasion of the Falcon OZ ( and even surviving warriors) among their ranks. Other Hellions became mercenaries in the Hansa (I think that was the Hansa)

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #52 on: 26 October 2023, 04:07:17 »
They will return when the Homeclans are going to reappear .
Among them will be hardened elite warriors carrying the bloodnames the Blood Houses of the ex Blood Spirits and ex Fire Mandrills, now fighting for their new Clan(s).
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #53 on: 26 October 2023, 04:44:43 »
We're not going to see Blood Spirit Bloodnames in the other Clans. The Adders made a specific point to destroy their genetic repository and I highly doubt they kept anything from the Master Repository since they were Abjured (de facto Annihilated).

And personally, I wouldn't want to see it happen anyway. Better to just let the Spirits remain spirits than to see them live on through their genocidal and hypocritical enemies.
« Last Edit: 26 October 2023, 05:05:00 by tassa_kay »
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Gaiiten

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #54 on: 26 October 2023, 07:28:53 »
We're not going to see Blood Spirit Bloodnames in the other Clans. The Adders made a specific point to destroy their genetic repository and I highly doubt they kept anything from the Master Repository since they were Abjured (de facto Annihilated).

And personally, I wouldn't want to see it happen anyway. Better to just let the Spirits remain spirits than to see them live on through their genocidal and hypocritical enemies.
First, the Spirits were condemned to a Trial of Absorption. That the Star Adders decided to annihilate all living members and bury the Spirits secondary genetic repository beyond some thousands tons of rocks and sand does not change the edict of the Grand Council.
The Primary Repository was not reported as being destroyed.

Second, generally have not all Clans ever being genocidal and hypocritical?
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ANS Kamas P81

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #55 on: 26 October 2023, 07:40:18 »
I'm for letting the Spirits stay dead; their candle burned hard and fast and went out quickly.  Let them rest in history.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #56 on: 26 October 2023, 08:20:39 »
Where is that mentioned?

One of the Jihad books. Interstellar Players 2 or 3 I think. Mentions Green Ghosts with Blood Spirit insignia on it.

Edit:
Interstellar Expeditions: Interstellar Players 3 , p. 94
« Last Edit: 26 October 2023, 08:24:24 by Stormlion1 »
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Stormlion1

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #57 on: 26 October 2023, 08:22:19 »
First, the Spirits were condemned to a Trial of Absorption. That the Star Adders decided to annihilate all living members and bury the Spirits secondary genetic repository beyond some thousands tons of rocks and sand does not change the edict of the Grand Council.
The Primary Repository was not reported as being destroyed.

Second, generally have not all Clans ever being genocidal and hypocritical?

The Bloodnames and Genetics were absorbed by the Adders but I could see the remaining Homeworld Clans trialing for those heritages even if the Adders themselves don't desire to use them.
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Gaiiten

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #58 on: 26 October 2023, 10:25:14 »
The Bloodnames and Genetics were absorbed by the Adders but I could see the remaining Homeworld Clans trialing for those heritages even if the Adders themselves don't desire to use them.
This is quite possible.
However, I think the Star Adders do not want to have these bloodnames fight against them again. At least for some time   :wink:
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #59 on: 26 October 2023, 10:29:51 »
First, the Spirits were condemned to a Trial of Absorption.

Yes, I misspoke. Thank you for not wasting a moment to correct me.  :rolleyes:  And yet they were de facto-Annihilated, as WoR so kindly points out.

Quote
The Primary Repository was not reported as being destroyed.

I never said it was. I said their repository.

Quote
Second, generally have not all Clans ever being genocidal and hypocritical?

No.

Gaiiten, in the future, can you please stop responding to my comments? I don't want to interact with you on any level, because you make any attempt at a conversation with people I actually do want to talk to very unpleasant with the constant childish gloating. Thank you.

The Bloodnames and Genetics were absorbed by the Adders but I could see the remaining Homeworld Clans trialing for those heritages even if the Adders themselves don't desire to use them.

Personally, I don't see it; WoR Supplemental already showed Mandrill Bloodnames being used by the Adders, and I'd think that would've been the time for any such thing to have occurred. But you never know, I suppose.
« Last Edit: 26 October 2023, 10:43:52 by tassa_kay »
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #60 on: 26 October 2023, 13:04:53 »
Just going to go ahead and lock this one for a little bit while we sort out what’s going on in here.
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Spirit Cat Refugee

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #61 on: 02 November 2023, 09:59:57 »
I will say this, there should be Blood Spirit and Fire Mandrill bloodnames active in the Inner Sphere. According to Shrapnel #4 or #5, several decades after the Wars of Reaving, the IS Clans decided to establish new bloodhouses based on bloodlines from Home Clans, so there could be Sainzes or Carrolls running around in Clan Wolf/Falcon/Horses. And if Alaric wanted to bolster the number of Clans under his command, he could spin them off like he did for the Smoke Jaguars.

Of course, in the SJ case, there was already a separate population of SJ-descendants yearning (yuck) to be a Clan again. No such case exists for the Blood Spirits or Mandrills, just descendants who probably don't think much of their ancestor's clans.
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #62 on: 02 November 2023, 11:37:52 »
I’d argue that there’s little chance of that, for a few reasons: all of those listed Bloodnames were exclusive, Spirits and Mandrills are notoriously difficult to integrate when captured, and the Spheroid Clans all voted to cut off contact with the Home Clans. The likelihood of seeing those Bloodnames ever showing up in the Inner Sphere are slim to none, unfortunately.
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VensersRevenge

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #63 on: 02 November 2023, 16:28:33 »
Shrapnel issue 3 explicitly says that there is an Inner Sphere Boques Bloodname in the Inner Sphere, so at least one Blood Spirit Bloodname did continue
...Is this just fantasy?
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #64 on: 02 November 2023, 16:47:33 »
Such a weird new development, since it’s basically stealing a Bloodright that they’d otherwise have zero right or claim on, but it makes sense in the larger context that the Clans are eroding/evolving over time and losing their identity.
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truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #65 on: 02 November 2023, 18:04:17 »
Shrapnel issue 3 explicitly says that there is an Inner Sphere Boques Bloodname in the Inner Sphere, so at least one Blood Spirit Bloodname did continue

It's common enough name, like Smith, Smyth? Smithe?

You get the picture...

TT
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #66 on: 03 November 2023, 00:09:17 »
Wolves could maybe have used the Blood Spirit heritage of Sumner Johns?  Abatakha warrior from the good ole Wolf Clan Sourcebook.  He seemed to be quite content to become a Wolf, though he disappeared along with the rest of his trinary when Phelan and a third of the Wolves broke for Arc Royal.
« Last Edit: 03 November 2023, 00:13:19 by rebs »
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VensersRevenge

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #67 on: 03 November 2023, 01:32:12 »
It's common enough name, like Smith, Smyth? Smithe?

You get the picture...

TT

No, it is explicitly the former Blood Spirit name, from warriors taken during Harvest Trials when the Council of Six chose to allow them to create new bloodhouses
...Is this just fantasy?
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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #68 on: 03 November 2023, 08:29:31 »
Just my opinion. There's one contingent of Mandrills that I think represent a greatest single source of Inner Sphere bloodhouses in any meaningful quantity.

On Arcadia, right at the start of the Wars of Reaving, the forces of Kindraa Payne-Beyl-Grant landed on Arcadia and challenged the Ghost Bears. The Bears crushed them. That Kindraa ceased to exist (as far as we know, albeit their warship fleet might have carried the banner longer). Shortly after that the Bears left the Homeworlds.

If the survivors were scooped up and made bondsmen, that could represent a decent number of bondsmen who might have had qualms/regrets about the Wars of Reaving events in due time.

Also, historically speaking, many Mandrill bondsmen were uncooperative specifically because they wanted to be reclaimed by their Kindraa. For these Payne-Beyl-Grant warriors who watched their entire Kindraa's touman get destroyed, they might have recognized the futility of that line of thinking and so lose a critical source of motivation to BE uncooperative with their new Clan.

Who in turn might have found common purpose with the Bears over the rumors of Clan Wolverine survival that Stone stirred up among the Bears. Enough for some of those Mandrills to set aside any bitterness they may feel and devote themselves to regaining their warrior status and go Wolverine hunting with the Bears. Regardless of how that ended, it might have been enough of a push of solidarity in the face of a perceived common cause.

Though ironically, any such former Mandrill warriors motivated in such a way, are just as likely to have ended up among the Clan forces that join the Coalition and from there they could have ended up as part of the Republic. Therefore, not forming a new Bloodname House but becoming part of that movement toward the dream Stone laid out.

I know that sounds perhaps too cooperative for the uncooperative Mandrills. But that era and everything they experienced changed a lot of people. We know a lot of Clansmen who otherwise would not have been moved to leave their Clan did exactly that. Transformative eras like that have a way of challenging and crushing existing preconceptions and assumptions. Anyone who lived through all those years, all those very dramatic events, was undoubtably changed by the experience of it. I think it's more than enough for any decent writer to work with to bring some Mandrill-origin characters or Bloodname Houses to life.

I still regard the odds as slim, because of how destructive that era was, and how many people simply did not live to see the other side of the Wars of Reaving/Jihad era. But not zero.

Also, I'm in camp of "I could take it or leave it." I don't think longevity into the more current eras is necessarily that big a deal. You aren't following the Mandrills anymore, you are just following people who happen to have some Mandrills on the family tree generations ago and share a surname, it's not the same. It reduces the Mandrill presence to little more than an easter egg in Battletech references. There to the delight of a few fans who enjoy spotting the easter egg. Little more.

But in theory, if someone was looking to do it, what I described above is one possible path.
« Last Edit: 03 November 2023, 08:41:20 by Alan Grant »

truetanker

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Re: Return of Fire & Blood
« Reply #69 on: 03 November 2023, 23:44:09 »
@VensersRevenge

It's a joke

@AlanGrant

I agree.
TT
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