Author Topic: Protomech Damage detail  (Read 953 times)

jackpot4

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Protomech Damage detail
« on: 29 November 2023, 19:17:24 »
Hi all, I am new to Protomechs and am curious about receiving damage.  When the protomech's external armor is gone, are the internal boxes treated as internal armor bubbles like a Battlemech, where a 5 point hit would kill the protomech outright or does each individual hit, whether a 2 point AC2 round or a 15 point Gauss slug, only take out one box?  Thank you!
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AlphaMirage

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #1 on: 29 November 2023, 19:35:10 »
It is normal damage, I think the only weird rules for protos are the miss chances or related to the main gun.

jackpot4

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #2 on: 29 November 2023, 23:42:09 »
It is normal damage, I think the only weird rules for protos are the miss chances or related to the main gun.

So, just to confirm, if the proto has 3 internal and 2 external armor bubbles, if a 5 point hit lands, it is destroyed?
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Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #4 on: 30 November 2023, 00:52:43 »
So, just to confirm, if the proto has 3 internal and 2 external armor bubbles, if a 5 point hit lands, it is destroyed?

Protomechs have sections similar to Battlemechs, so a section that has 2 Armor and 3 Structure taking a 5 Damage hit would see that section destroyed.  The only time a Protomech is destroyed is when the Torso section is destroyed.  However other sections can seriously degrade the Protomech's performance, much like a Battlemech.
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Dapper Apples

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #5 on: 30 November 2023, 01:02:34 »
IIRC any internal structure damage also harms the pilot.  Also any excess limb damage transfers to torso, including the head.

Col Toda

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #6 on: 30 November 2023, 06:07:02 »
Proto mechs are very much a niche unit in Battletech.  Inside it it is as good as it gets outside it ; it is a waste of BV . They are an attrition unit.

Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #7 on: 30 November 2023, 11:01:21 »
Proto mechs are very much a niche unit in Battletech.  Inside it it is as good as it gets outside it ; it is a waste of BV . They are an attrition unit.

Attrition, Harassment, or Objective unit, depending on the model.  As with any unit, when used right, they can be rather effective, and when used wrong it is a waste of BV. 

An Awesome is a great sniper and anchor.  It is lousy at grabbing objectives on the far side of the hex map, though, unless the rest of your force is UrbanMechs and Annihilators.
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Dapper Apples

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #8 on: 30 November 2023, 19:57:20 »
I kinda dig protos.  A lot of the cannon designs aren't super optimal though, and the whole point really needs to work together to achieve much.

Col Toda

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #9 on: 01 December 2023, 06:54:31 »
Dapper is correct most of the early cannon designs are sub optional thus even more awful outside the niche .

Demiurge

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #10 on: 09 December 2023, 00:58:00 »
The protomech construction rules are just bad and there would be few tears shed if they were just retconned out of the game.

Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #11 on: 09 December 2023, 22:15:13 »
The protomech construction rules are just bad and there would be few tears shed if they were just retconned out of the game.

I don't know about bad, but they do make it hard to have effective units that are competitive.

They don't necessarily have to retcon them out, but they aren't a unit type used by the ilCLan Star League, according to the MUL.  Not including the Homeworlds, the only Clans that were still using them as of Wolf capturing Terra, only the Ravens and Horses use them.

It wouldn't be hard for them to just go extinct with those Clans, much like LAMs are.
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #12 on: 10 December 2023, 00:02:27 »
Really? Just because you don't like them, nobody should get them?
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StCptMara

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #13 on: 10 December 2023, 01:32:47 »
Really? Just because you don't like them, nobody should get them?

That is what some people think about IndustrialMechs, LAMs and Aerospace, strangely enough...
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #14 on: 10 December 2023, 08:01:41 »
Let's retcon ALL the units out of the game and have a battalion-sized pillow fight instead :grin:

With respect to unit effectiveness, that's best left to BV or GM experience.  I use BV to balance many of my games.  I don't play with protomechs much but they seem like an interesting mook unit to play against in a Operation Bulldog campaign.
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Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #15 on: 10 December 2023, 13:36:13 »
When I first started playing them, I used FASA-style plastic models (due to their smaller size and I was testing them before buying them) and they always freaked people out when they first played them.  There's nothing like that "How are you fitting 15 models in a list?" expression.

In many ways, they are like UrbanMechs.  You should not expect much out of them, but the more fire they take is fire your Mechs are not taking.

Still, they tend to have more firepower and/or mobility than an UrbanMech, so there's that.
« Last Edit: 11 December 2023, 00:36:10 by Charistoph »
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StCptMara

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #16 on: 11 December 2023, 00:12:15 »
When I first started playing them, I used FASA-style plastic models (due to their smaller size and I was testing them before buying them) and they always freaked people out when they first played them.  There's nothing like that "How are you fitting 15 models in a list?" expression.

In many ways, they are like UrbanMechs.  You should expect much out of them, but the more fire they take is fire your Mechs are not taking.

Still, they tend to have more firepower and/or mobility than an UrbanMech, so there's that.

Used right, they can be very effective. The Minotaur is an ambush predator, the Delphyne and Roc are hit and fade units, Satyr is a line combatant, Erinyes is something we point and laugh at...Svartalfar is something we really want the official sheets for the Svartalfar 2...
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Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #17 on: 11 December 2023, 00:47:24 »
Used right, they can be very effective.

Too true, I said that earlier.  However, like you mention a little later, some are hard to "use right".

The Minotaur is an ambush predator, the Delphyne and Roc are hit and fade units,...

I love the Roc, and my next PM expansion will expand their Point.  Interestingly enough the Basilisk 3 pretty much does the same job without running as fast.

I haven't used the Delphyne, or Minotaur, yet, but I do have a love for the Gorgons.

... Satyr is a line combatant,

:shocked: I think you have the names mixed up.  I usually use them like a Cicada.  But that's mostly because I'm using the 4 with the TAG, coordinating with the Gorgons.

Erinyes is something we point and laugh at...

Both the Erinyes and Harpy demonstrate that there is no way to have a good 2 ton Protomech.  Not enough room for Engine, firepower, or Armor.  At 3 tons, we find the Cecerops and Siren which move like a bat out of hell, so they can at least scout.  The Erinyes and Harpy can't even do that.

Svartalfar is something we really want the official sheets for the Svartalfar 2...

And maybe cheaper models...
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #18 on: 11 December 2023, 07:56:22 »
GreekFire's articles down in Fan Articles are a very good read for anyone wanting some hints about Proto operations. Of particular note are the bits about using them to restrict movement across the map - even if they're not shooting at you, ProtoMechs of all sizes make excellent traffic cops. :cool:

(Yes, this includes the 2-ton ones)
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #19 on: 11 December 2023, 15:47:27 »
My favorite thing about ProtoMechs is replicating Succession War-era Inner Sphere light 'mechs with them.  The superheavy ProtoMechs are really fun to do this with!
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Demiurge

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #20 on: 11 December 2023, 19:55:11 »
Really? Just because you don't like them, nobody should get them?

That's a ridiculous misinterpretation of what I said.

I said the construction rules for protomechs are bad, and they are objectively worse than the construction rules for any other unit type in the game.  Lightweight protomechs are just worse than the heavier ones; no other unit type in the game has such a lopsided and shallow construction rules.

It would be perfectly fine to just retcon the construction rules away and just present the protomechs as ala carte units while new construction rules were written (and possibly tweak the rules for them at the same time).  Battle armor was present in the game for years before there were any construction rules for it, so this wouldn't even be a new state of affairs.

Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #21 on: 11 December 2023, 20:14:36 »
(Yes, this includes the 2-ton ones)

I don't know if I'd call using them as a "Send In the Next Wave" unit is an effective use, but I will admit it is there.

It would be perfectly fine to just retcon the construction rules away and just present the protomechs as ala carte units while new construction rules were written (and possibly tweak the rules for them at the same time).  Battle armor was present in the game for years before there were any construction rules for it, so this wouldn't even be a new state of affairs.

Well, with the new Battlefield Support Auxiliary rules coming with the Mercenaries box, it probably wouldn't be too hard to set them up with similar.
« Last Edit: 11 December 2023, 20:45:14 by Charistoph »
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #22 on: 11 December 2023, 20:30:48 »
*battlefield support assets. Support vehicles as presented in TW are not changing

I know that’s what you meant but this fandom has been known to take poor reading comprehension and elevate it to fungus-grade rumors and misconceptions that take years to get rid of

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Charistoph

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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #23 on: 11 December 2023, 20:45:42 »
*battlefield support assets.

Good point, fixed as good as I can.
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Re: Protomech Damage detail
« Reply #24 on: 12 December 2023, 00:11:20 »
:shocked: I think you have the names mixed up.  I usually use them like a Cicada.  But that's mostly because I'm using the 4 with the TAG, coordinating with the Gorgons.

Yeah..I did..I meant the Centaur: SRM 2, LRM 3, and ER Micro. I use it like a trooper, because it has enough flexibility that it can do a little of everything.

Side note on the Harpy vs Erinyes: The Harpy, at least, is useful for anti-infantry work. The Erinyes isn't even capable of that.
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