Author Topic: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread  (Read 181111 times)

truetanker

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #630 on: 15 May 2021, 00:18:46 »
Your wanting Fluid and Sprayer guns on those Highlanders...

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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #631 on: 15 May 2021, 00:24:24 »
Whiskey for everyone!

Edit: I have a design.  I just need fluff.
« Last Edit: 15 May 2021, 01:30:46 by Giovanni Blasini »
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #632 on: 19 May 2021, 23:25:57 »
OK, I've been digging into various designs, looking for parts overlap, and I have some ideas on what Niops could start producing if they manage to rebuild their Workshops.  I'm sticking only to canon designs here, for simplicity's sake.  I'm also sticking only to fusion-powered designs.  ICE or fuel-cell vehicles rapidly add enough options that this becomes madness to a level I cannot currently contemplate, and we don't have any direct knowledge of canon designs that Niops built using these engines.

First off, knowing that Niops used to build the Highlander, the Black Knight and the Burke tank, we know then that they built three types of fusion engines, all with single heat sinks: the Vlar 300 (Black Knight), the GM 270 (Highlander), and the GM 150 (Burke).  Any designs I'm looking at, then, will be based around one of these three engines, operating under the assumption that, with outside tooling assistance, they can get one of these three engines back into production.

Option one is they get back to a construction level where they can build either standard Industrial or Primitive BattleMech/Aerospace level designs.  This isn't ideal, but it's workable, and it might only be interim until something better can be done.  Under this scenario, Niops focuses on getting the GM 270 engine back into production.  At Industrial/Primitive level, this gives them the option to build the following:

GM 270 Primitive/Industrial Designs
  • FLN-366 St. Florian FireMech (req: heavy industrial armor, fluid guns)
  • ON1-H Orion primitive BattleMech (req: AC/10, LRM-5, SRM-4, ML, primitive armor)
  • EGL-R4 Eagle primitive aerospace fighter (req: LLs, MLs, primitive armor)

The St. Florian can then, in turn, be turned into the MOD version if they can get access to heavy flamers and plasma rifles.  It's still a good option to have around because it would build experience back towards eventually restoring Highlander production and, failing that, for your own home games, you've got a platform you can build a Highlander MilitiaMech on.  With the Orion's AC/10, I'm assuming at this point that Niopian AC/10s are substandard, equivalent to the Prototype AC/10s carried by the canon design.

If you can't build any more advanced BattleMechs

A more Introtech-level industrial base allows you more options, obviously.  Looking at each of the engine types Niops was known to build, and sticking more or less to Intro tech, we get the following options

GM 150 Engine Designs
  • SPD-502 Spad aerospace fighter (req: PPC, LL, ML)
  • Burke defense tank (req: PPC, LRM-10)
  • VLK-QA Valkyrie battlemech (req: LRM-10, ML, 0.5t jump jets)
  • WSP-100 Wasp LAM (req: ML, SRM-2, 0.5t jump jets, LAM tech)
  • WSP-100A Wasp LAM (req: LRM-10, ML, 0.5t jump jets, LAM tech)

So, let's look at each of these in turn:

The Spad is an all-around decent, if not spectacular, light fighter, with impressive armor for its size and a solid punch in the form of that PPC.  It also has the benefit of being a pre-OmniFighter, which the Ravens ended up turning into a true OmniFighter in the form of the Issedone, sacrificing two points of armor from each location, but picking up 9 tons of pod space in the process.  Amusingly, the Issedone is on the Periphery General list for the Dark Age in the MUL, because the Raven Alliance has begun building them for export.  If you begin building domestic Spads, you build up the capacity to eventually do something similar yourself, though you might be importing weapons from the Sea Foxes.

The Burke defense tank is a design you used to build.  Perhaps you can do so again, and with three PPCs and an LRM-10, it hits hard, even if it's slow and a bit thinly armored.  As well, this has a Golden Century upgrade, the Kokou defense tank, which is on the Sea Fox and the Mercenary lists for the Dark Age in the MUL.  You may be able to leverage this as well.

Now, here's where we get weird: the WSP-100 and WSP-100A are, in general, not that advanced, despite being Mk I LAMs.  No double heat sinks here, and the most advanced weapon is the one-shot SRM-2 on the WSP-100.  The standard WSP-100 could make a light bomb truck, and can pack up to 5 RL10s in that bomb bay.  The WSP-105, while only packing 4 tons of armor, could function well as a light trooper 'Mech, thanks to its medium laser and LRM-10, which brings us to...

The VLK-QA Valkyrie.  This was supposed to be the non-LAM version of the WSP-100A.  You may well have enough technical information to reverse-engineer the design yourself, along with the possibility of licensing from the Federated Suns, to put your own Valkyries into production, making this a good option if you're not wanting to put LAMs on your table.


GM 270 Engine Designs
  • HGN-733 Highlander (req: AC/10, ML, LRM-20, SRM-6, 2t jump jets)
  • HGN-733P Highlander (req: PPC, ML, LRM-20, SRM-6, 2t jump jets)
  • PXH-1 Phoenix Hawk (req: LL, ML, MG, 0.5t jump jets))
  • PXH-2 Phoenix Hawk (req: LL, ML, ECM, 0.5t jump jets)
  • HER-1A Hermes (req: ML, flamer)
  • HER-1B Hermes (req: ML)
  • THK-33 Tomahawk aerospace fighter (req: LL, SL)
  • AHB-X Ahab aerospace fighter (req: LRM-20, SRM-6, LL, ML)

Starting with the Highlanders, the HGN-733 leverages the AC/10s you may have built for your primitive Orions.  Failing that, if you went with the 150-rating engine as an option, you can share the PPC production line with the Spad.  Either of them use the LRM-20 and SRM-6, which the intro-tech Ahab uses as well.  The drawback is that the Highlander has a large variety of weapons you'd need to put into production, but these are all weapons you used to build once upon a time, so it's possible.  It's just work, time, and money, right?

Speaking of the Ahab, let's jump to that for a moment.  In a lot of ways, it's a flying Highlander, though obviously it's using large lasers as well.  That said, it's a solid, thematic choice for the Niops Association, and was always one of the designs I assumed they built.

The Tomahawk selected here is an intro-tech version that packs twin large lasers and a single small laser.  It's slightly faster than the Spad, has a bit more armor, and hits a bit harder, but it's also a bit more expensive, too, and those 270-rating engines might be better served elsewhere, like on your Highlanders or Ahabs.

The 270-rating engine also gives you some options for lighter 'Mech elements, in the form of the Hermes, a fast-moving light 'Mech with either a medium laser and flamer or twin medium lasers for armament.  These are thin-skinned, though, and neither hits particularly hard.

A better option for a lighter element that can double as both scout and trooper is the Phoenix Hawk.  During the Star League era, you had the SLDF Regulars using both the PHX-1, which gives you the option of machine guns to stave off infantry attacks, or the slightly more advanced PXH-2, which drops the MGs for an ECM suite and a much-needed 2 points of head armor, as well as 3 more points to each leg, though that's obviously subject to availability of the more sophisticated electronics of the ECM suite.


Vlar 300 Engine Designs
  • BL-7-KNT Black Knight (req: PPC, LL, ML, SL)
  • ON1-K Orion (req: AC/10, LRM-15, SRM-4, ML)
  • TRC-4B Chameleon training 'Mech (req: LL, ML, SL, MG, 0.5t jump jets)
  • Merkava Mk VIII heavy tank (req: AC/5, LRM-15, SRM-4, MG)
  • EGL-R6 Eagle aerospace fighter (req: LL, ML)
  • TRB-36 Thunderbird aerospace fighter (req: LRM-20, LL, ML)

Here, once again, you used to build Black Knights.  In theory, you could once again, and the BL-7-KNT is an intro-tech level one, packing PPCs, large lasers, medium lasers and small lasers we're seeing in use elsewhere, and there's no ammo dependence to worry about.  If you want to leave the PPCs elsewhere, you could switch to the BL-7-KNT-L, which swaps that PPC for another large laser and two more heat sinks, which may well be the better choice, anyway.

If you went the primitive Orion route earlier, you could also switch your mainline heavy trooper to the Orion.  You're already producing the SRM-4 you used on the primitive, and there's still some overlap with other options here, too, depending on which Highlander you've reintroduced, and which Orion you're looking at: the ON1-K and ON1-V both use LRM-15s you're not using anywhere else, and while the ON-1VA is always an option, an AC/10, 2 SRM-4s and 2 medium lasers seems a bit underwhelming on a 75-ton 'Mech.

You've also got an option here to use instead of the Phoenix Hawk for a medium trooper: the TRC-4B Chameleon. Armor's lighter at only 6 tons, but it packs the same large laser, twin medium lasers and twin machine guns on a 6/9/6 medium as the PXH, but then throws on four small lasers.  It also has a reputation as one of the best training 'Mechs in the Inner Sphere and, given the number of scrubs you've got going to your new military academy, shoving them in Chameleons, then transferring them out into their units in those same 'Mechs to build their experience up strikes me as a pretty solid idea.

Another thing this engine gives you the option for is a main battle tank, the Merkava Mk VIII.  At 4/6 movement and protected by 10 tons of armor, it's not a bad option, except, of course, it's got an AC/5 you're not using anywhere else, backed by an LRM-15 and SRM-4 you may or may not be using on Orions, and machine guns for anti-infantry work.  Still, worth considering.

The 300-rating engine also gives you a couple of common aerospace fighters as options, and by "common" I basically mean "generic": there's the EGL-R6 Eagle, with its banks of large and medium lasers, and the Thunderbird, which packs LRM-20s, large lasers and medium lasers.

OK, so, let's put it all together then:

If all you can do for the moment is build IndustrialMech or Primitive BattleMech level tech, focus on getting that GM 270 back into production, build the ON1-H as your mainline trooper, the Eagle R4 as your aerospace fighter, and see about getting a license for the St. Florian to either build towards your own "Highlander-esque" MilitiaMech or the FireMech MOD to supplement your Orions.

If you can *only* manage the 150-rating engine, build Spads, Burkes, and, and either Valkyries or Wasp LAMs.  If you're feeling very adventurous, build both Valyries and the two Wasp LAMs.  And, truthfully, while this isn't an ideal position, it isn't a hopeless one, either.  Spads give you a decent fighter, Burkes are just what it says on the tin, a "defense tank", and you could do worse for a light 'Mech than a WSP-100A or Valkyrie.

If you can *only* manage the 270-rating engine, well, congrats, you've got Highlanders, backed by Phoenix Hawks on the ground, with Tomahawks and Ahabs in the air.  You don't get synergy with a vehicle design this way, sadly, but maybe you can get an ICE-based vehicle going, recover another engine type later, or you'll just have to buy those on the open market.

If you can *only* manage the 300-rating engine, you've got the option of the Black Knight, the Orion or both for your mainline BattleMech, you've got the Chameleon for scout/skirmisher/trainer, Merkava as a tank, and your choice of two heavier aerospace fighters.

Meanwhile, if you can recover the 150 and 270 GM engines, my recommendation would be:  Spad and Ahab for aerospace fighters, Burke for your tank, Highlander for your big 'Mech, and the Wasp LAM/Valkyrie for your lighter 'Mech.  Why?  Because you're not taking 270 engines away from your Highlander production to produce lighter 'Mechs or fighters.  Those 270s are best served in heavier units.

Got 150 and 300 rating engines?  Burkes and Merkavas for your tankers, with the 3-large-laser Black Knight as your heavy 'Mech.  Spads and Eagles for your aerospace fighters.  Build Chameleons as trainers and lighter units.  Fill out your lighter roles with your choice of Valkyries or Wasp LAMs, depending on preference.

Have you pulled off a minor miracle and gotten all three engines back into production?  Congratulations!  Here's my suggestions on what to build:

150-rating: Spads, Burkes, your choice of Valkyrie or Wasp LAM
270-rating: Highlanders and Ahabs
300-rating: Merkavas, Chameleons and your choice of Black Knight or Orion.  Personally, I'd go with the Black Knight, and save the LRM-15s and SRM-4s for the Merkavas.  If you stick with the BL-7-KNT-L, you also save PPCs for the Spads and Highlanders (in the form of the 733P), and get better dissipation to boot.

So.  Yeah.  Thank you for coming to my TED Talk?  Thoughts, ideas, comments, suggestions, expressions of disbelief at how much time I had to have spent sorting through all this?
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truetanker

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #633 on: 20 May 2021, 00:27:28 »
You do know that Heavy Industrial Armor is Standard Plate @ 16 points per ton aka BAR 10.

TT
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #634 on: 20 May 2021, 00:32:32 »
You do know that Heavy Industrial Armor is Standard Plate @ 16 points per ton aka BAR 10.

TT

I do.  However, while it's functionally the same, the entries for the IndustrialMech designs that use it expressly call it out as "heavy industrial" armor.  My guess is it doesn't have the same degree of sensor webs through the armor to register damage as more conventional standard BattleMech armor does.

No other thoughts?
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Elmoth

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #635 on: 20 May 2021, 03:10:08 »
You know that you have dedicated more thought to production realities and derivatives than any official book has, right?

In the setting the capacity to produce or not produce something is just random, with no consideration for production synergies or past capabilities.
« Last Edit: 20 May 2021, 03:12:14 by Elmoth »

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #636 on: 20 May 2021, 05:21:05 »
Very true. Production capabilities appear out of hammerspace.

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #637 on: 20 May 2021, 21:46:06 »
while i can accept them being able to ressurect production facilities, i highly doubt that they would be producing LAMs. as cool at that would be otherwise. if they weren't making them before the destruction of the project workshops, they  almost certainly would lack the ability to set up production of them in the 3100's. there just isn't any tooling to copy left, and the amount of work to recreate the technology practically from scratch would be much much greater than that needed to just start producing a normal mech.

i do hope that LAMs make a comeback but the only group i could plausibly believe as having the ability to reinvent the tech would be Clan Hells Horses (since they did develop the quadvee), or perhaps Snow Raven (using quadvee tech trialed from the HH's to redevelop them..)
(though i hold out hope that the rediscovery of a Harvard company facility on Epislon Eridani by Kressly Technologies [DA:republic worlds pg238] might mean some data on the star league LAMs exists and could allow rediscovery)
« Last Edit: 20 May 2021, 21:50:48 by glitterboy2098 »

Niopsian

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #638 on: 20 May 2021, 23:14:56 »
What about pursuing a trade agreement with the Canopians to import Penthesileas? It shares the Vlar 300 fusion engine - might give local engineers an additional opportunity to develop some local knockoffs. Not to mention the DHS and ER energy weapons. (I still say Niops should get a bonus to lasers - all that optical experience with the telescopes 😁 )


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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #639 on: 20 May 2021, 23:34:32 »
while i can accept them being able to ressurect production facilities, i highly doubt that they would be producing LAMs. as cool at that would be otherwise. if they weren't making them before the destruction of the project workshops, they  almost certainly would lack the ability to set up production of them in the 3100's. there just isn't any tooling to copy left, and the amount of work to recreate the technology practically from scratch would be much much greater than that needed to just start producing a normal mech.

i do hope that LAMs make a comeback but the only group i could plausibly believe as having the ability to reinvent the tech would be Clan Hells Horses (since they did develop the quadvee), or perhaps Snow Raven (using quadvee tech trialed from the HH's to redevelop them..)
(though i hold out hope that the rediscovery of a Harvard company facility on Epislon Eridani by Kressly Technologies [DA:republic worlds pg238] might mean some data on the star league LAMs exists and could allow rediscovery)

I put LAMs on my list for their Star League origins, because I'm a LAM fan, and because the Wasp LAM Mk. I shared the same fusion engine as the Burke.  Building Wasp LAMs in 3150 would be a uniquely Niopian thing, and the idea of rebuilding the Militia out of Burke defense tanks, Wasp LAMs and Spad ASFs is absolutely hilarious, but quite possibly viable.  The WSP-100A also makes for a less-efficient LAM version of the Valkyrie, and a kind of semi-adequate light trooper.

Obviously, YMMV with LAMs in general, and the Valkyrie would be a unique twist as an alternative at the same mass, given that it was ordered for the Star League, but didn't see service until the Star League fell.

What about pursuing a trade agreement with the Canopians to import Penthesileas? It shares the Vlar 300 fusion engine - might give local engineers an additional opportunity to develop some local knockoffs. Not to mention the DHS and ER energy weapons. (I still say Niops should get a bonus to lasers - all that optical experience with the telescopes 😁 )

Setting aside that it's got a face for radio, yeah, importation opens up a lot of options, and the 300-rating engine is astoundingly common.  The 270-rating engine isn't that far behind, either.
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Niopsian

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #640 on: 21 May 2021, 08:29:56 »
Setting aside that it's got a face for radio, yeah, importation opens up a lot of options, and the 300-rating engine is astoundingly common.  The 270-rating engine isn't that far behind, either.

Other thought was Son Hoa. It's somehow still independent in 3150 and has (or had) a major StarCorps Industries facility. I know it got pummeled during the Jihad, but there was still some stuff being produced after. And the route to Niops is more or less safe if you arc through the FWL.


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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #641 on: 21 May 2021, 17:36:10 »
Other thought was Son Hoa. It's somehow still independent in 3150 and has (or had) a major StarCorps Industries facility. I know it got pummeled during the Jihad, but there was still some stuff being produced after. And the route to Niops is more or less safe if you arc through the FWL.

Yeah, one of the things they started building?  The St. Florian FireMech.  ;D  They also transitioned first to the HGN-734, then most recently the HGN-740 Highlander, which is just a mean 'Mech.

Son Hoa would also be a good source to buy Hermit Crabs from, which is a pretty solid light 'Mech in all its forms, gets sold for export pretty heavily, and is on the Periphery General list.  Sarna's also got them down as making the WHM-8D and WHM-9S variants of the Warhammer, and while they're both ugly as sin, the WHM-8D is pretty solid, and probably cheaper than the light engine driven WHM-9S.  They also make the WGT-2SC Wight, which are weird mutant Panthers, but still pretty solid.

Personally, I wouldn't mind the idea of Niops having to import most of their military hardware.  They don't have a huge population, so it kind of makes sense.  But I'd still like to see them produce at least a modicum of equipment domestically again, even if nowhere to their old level, just to give them some independence and security, and to put them on some degree of parity with other small Periphery factions like New St. Andrews and Randis.
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Niopsian

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #642 on: 26 May 2021, 09:57:04 »
Another candidate for new construction: the late, unlamented LDT-1 Brigand.

At 25 tons it makes for a good "my first 'Mech" design. The base model uses a 150 rating fusion engine, which will help with hoped for down the line construction projects. The base model uses ER and pulse medium lasers but a 3066 variant drops the pulse lasers in favor of easier to acquire standard mediums. It's a little light in the armor department (especially in the rear arc) but a slight modification to the weapons loadout could patch that over.

Best part, no licensing issues or contract negotiations required to revive the design, as "Vengeance Industries" probably isn't in a position to file suit. Change up the molding, give it a suitably Niops-like name (I'm partial to calling it the PRC-1 Proctor, myself) and you've got a good but not great light unit that ought to be producible in the Association at the old Project Workshops rate of one or two per semester.

Thoughts?


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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #643 on: 26 May 2021, 10:15:39 »
Another candidate for new construction: the late, unlamented LDT-1 Brigand.

At 25 tons it makes for a good "my first 'Mech" design. The base model uses a 150 rating fusion engine, which will help with hoped for down the line construction projects. The base model uses ER and pulse medium lasers but a 3066 variant drops the pulse lasers in favor of easier to acquire standard mediums. It's a little light in the armor department (especially in the rear arc) but a slight modification to the weapons loadout could patch that over.

Best part, no licensing issues or contract negotiations required to revive the design, as "Vengeance Industries" probably isn't in a position to file suit. Change up the molding, give it a suitably Niops-like name (I'm partial to calling it the PRC-1 Proctor, myself) and you've got a good but not great light unit that ought to be producible in the Association at the old Project Workshops rate of one or two per semester.

Thoughts?

Taking in count that it was actually build in ramshack depots and sweatshop factories in the Pirate cluster and Tortuga made from contraband, i can not see why Niops can do it too.
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #644 on: 27 May 2021, 01:57:47 »
Huh, I was looking at the Periphery General list in the MUL, then I noticed something: the Niops Association technically isn't included in the list of factions for Periphery General:

http://masterunitlist.info/Faction/Details/57

Quote from: Masterunitlist
Dark Age: Calderon Protectorate, Filtvelt Coalition, Magistracy of Canopus, Marian Hegemony, Pirates, and Taurian Concordat.

It says it's for units "available to all tracked Periphery factions" but Niops, evidently, isn't tracked.  Randis and New St. Andrews are in a similar boat.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #645 on: 27 May 2021, 09:27:13 »
As far as i know, faction too small to have a particular list, just ise the Periphery General list.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
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Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #646 on: 27 May 2021, 20:53:45 »
Because why not, I've opened up a couple threads for custom Niopian designs:

Niops Project Workshops: ENG 201 ('Mech Engineering)

Niops project Workshops: ENG 202-204 (Aerospace Engineering)

I haven't opened threads for combat vehicles, non-combat vehicles and battlearmor yet, but would also be happy to do so.
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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #647 on: 30 May 2021, 22:38:31 »
Field Manual 3145 even states that the Militia imports a lot from foreign states like the Marian Hegemony and the Calderon Protectorate.  That's why they have a D availability rating on the 3145 RATs.  I could see the Workshop offering what remaining expertise they have to the MH and larger powers to help in building new designs, if they ever got it working again.

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #648 on: 31 May 2021, 02:00:31 »
Sure you don't mean Canopus?  The Marians are the state that they're needing a military to defend against

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #649 on: 31 May 2021, 04:46:01 »
Sure you don't mean Canopus?  The Marians are the state that they're needing a military to defend against

And yet, Field Manual 3145 does in fact indicate Niops has bad to buy military hardware from the Marian Hegemony among others.  And, yes, that would mean the Marians are literally selling Niops the weapons Niops would be using to defend themselves against the Marians.

Of course, the Marians already took what they wanted from Niops, and they have their own germanium deposits, and are undoubtedly confident they can just roll over what’s left of the Niops Association Militia should they so choose, which just magnifies the indignity of it.
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Daryk

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #650 on: 31 May 2021, 05:23:49 »
I'm WAY late to this party, but thanks to DOC_Agren for the mention!  :thumbsup:

Here's the link to my Goblin variants (and the planetary militia I built them for).  I also did a specific Goblin chassis for Gio at one point, and there are others listed in my sig block with an SLDF flavor.

As for BA, I did a couple of variants of the Nighthawk, one of which might address the concern about the inability to build the ECM suite: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battle-armor/nighthawk-mk-xxvxxvi-pa(l)/

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #651 on: 31 May 2021, 14:38:19 »
And yet, Field Manual 3145 does in fact indicate Niops has bad to buy military hardware from the Marian Hegemony among others.  And, yes, that would mean the Marians are literally selling Niops the weapons Niops would be using to defend themselves against the Marians.

Of course, the Marians already took what they wanted from Niops, and they have their own germanium deposits, and are undoubtedly confident they can just roll over what’s left of the Niops Association Militia should they so choose, which just magnifies the indignity of i
t.

What most Marians fans in this forum read about those parts (but looks like the Devs are taking another path there) is that the MH was having a "soft-hand diplomacy" with the independant worlds around them, including Niops. This usually involved selling them surplus (and new) equipment, and trade deals, so in this way they can have those planets in their "sphere of influence".
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #652 on: 31 May 2021, 15:23:39 »
I'm WAY late to this party, but thanks to DOC_Agren for the mention!  :thumbsup:

Here's the link to my Goblin variants (and the planetary militia I built them for).  I also did a specific Goblin chassis for Gio at one point, and there are others listed in my sig block with an SLDF flavor.

As for BA, I did a couple of variants of the Nighthawk, one of which might address the concern about the inability to build the ECM suite: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battle-armor/nighthawk-mk-xxvxxvi-pa(l)/

I had honesty forgotten not just about the Goblins, but my own Wasps, too.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #653 on: 31 May 2021, 15:25:42 »
What most Marians fans in this forum read about those parts (but looks like the Devs are taking another path there) is that the MH was having a "soft-hand diplomacy" with the independant worlds around them, including Niops. This usually involved selling them surplus (and new) equipment, and trade deals, so in this way they can have those planets in their "sphere of influence".

“Here, let me sell you a handful of crap weapons we helped develop with tooling and industrial expertise we stole from you and deprived you of when we attacked you while you were minding your own business” is usually a poor way to make friends.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #654 on: 31 May 2021, 17:32:44 »
“Here, let me sell you a handful of crap weapons we helped develop with tooling and industrial expertise we stole from you and deprived you of when we attacked you while you were minding your own business” is usually a poor way to make friends.

I dont think the Marians developed the shitty primitive Centurion with stolen Niops. And either way, the Niopsians, and what its left of their goverment are in the crap since the end of the Jihad. And in hard times, beggars cant be choosers. You use what you can get. And if the slimy Marian trader is offering some very needed mech forces cheaply, even if it are primitives, you take the offer. Its that, or not having anyhting to defend yourself of the pirate lurking among the stars.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #655 on: 01 June 2021, 17:41:38 »
One options for arming up the militia might be to make purchases from the Bermuda Combat Systems in the  magistracy. Primitive Toro's, Wasp's, and Shadow Hawks might not be much but they'd be easy to maintain. And who knows, if the company stopped making primitive mechs at some point after the jihad, perhaps their tooling could be purchased.


Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #656 on: 02 June 2021, 01:50:34 »
One options for arming up the militia might be to make purchases from the Bermuda Combat Systems in the  magistracy. Primitive Toro's, Wasp's, and Shadow Hawks might not be much but they'd be easy to maintain. And who knows, if the company stopped making primitive mechs at some point after the jihad, perhaps their tooling could be purchased.

Good call.

Bermuda still appears to be making the Toro, but the SHD-1R and WSP-1 both drop to the Extinct category in the Dark Age per the MUL.  I know the Rim Commonality worked with Majesty Metals to improve their SHD-1R line to produce the SHD-4H, and later both produced the SHD-7H.  The 7H ends up on the Periphery General list, but the 4H looks like the Magistracy and some Inner Sphere customers (FWL, DC).  I’d wager that Bermuda switched production to the SHD-4H then, with Majesty producing the SHD-7H.  The Bermuda production like probably got updated to produce a newer Wasp, too.

Both upgrades would potentially leave sufficient tooling to garage build the SHD-1R and WSP-1 on Niops.
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #657 on: 02 June 2021, 08:35:38 »
Both upgrades would potentially leave sufficient tooling to garage build the SHD-1R and WSP-1 on Niops.

Personally i think that if the RC, New St. Andrews and Randis were able to build Retrotech facilities, even in their present state Niops should be able to do the same. Not in an industrial scale, but enough to fill the gaping holes in their defensive forces. And i dont mean only mech, ASFs and Vees too.
Oh my brother, with your courage we can conquer,
In your sword I put my trust that you will honor
I will be the higher ground should you concede it
And my body be your shield if you should need it.

glitterboy2098

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #658 on: 02 June 2021, 17:18:14 »
Sure, though those sites can probably only boast low rate production at best. Probably just "optimized" and streamlined garage style production. Not true assembly line high rate stuff. Still, low rate production was the standard for the late succession wars and it worked out.
But the big hurdle would be less the facilities and mostly the tooling to make a design. Creating a new design is possible but takes a lot longer. Buying or liscencing the tooling and plans for an existing design speeds up the process of getting production started. You aren't having to set the whole production process from raw materials to finished product up from scratch, you have an existing template and parts list to work with.

The shadow hawk, and wasp primitives also have some good "expansion" potential using open market weaponry and systems. An ERML on a WSP-1 for example. Or switching the AC5 of the primitive SHD for an LBX, LAC, or even an LL and some missiles.

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread
« Reply #659 on: 02 June 2021, 18:10:09 »
Sure, though those sites can probably only boast low rate production at best. Probably just "optimized" and streamlined garage style production. Not true assembly line high rate stuff. Still, low rate production was the standard for the late succession wars and it worked out.
But the big hurdle would be less the facilities and mostly the tooling to make a design. Creating a new design is possible but takes a lot longer. Buying or liscencing the tooling and plans for an existing design speeds up the process of getting production started. You aren't having to set the whole production process from raw materials to finished product up from scratch, you have an existing template and parts list to work with.

Which, depending upon how you read it, was probably how Niops was building crap in the first place.

Quote
The shadow hawk, and wasp primitives also have some good "expansion" potential using open market weaponry and systems. An ERML on a WSP-1 for example. Or switching the AC5 of the primitive SHD for an LBX, LAC, or even an LL and some missiles.

Yep.  An ERML would be a significant upgrade on the WSP-1, and swapping the SHD-1R to an ERML in the arm and a PPC with another 2 single heat sinks would be extremely easy, and even take up the exact same number of critical locations as the AC/5 and ton of ammo.  Both would be solid choices for restablishing domestic production again.
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