Empire of the Nerds: The Niops Association Thread

[D-Rock]

Yeah that's on me, and I corrected it.

Next I'm thinking the Flashman, Phoenix Hawk, and the Thug.

[truetanker]

If your doing the Thug, the Wyvern was also made by Maltex Corporation.

TT

[D-Rock]

I want to love the Crusader, and the CASE fittings on the CRD-2R help a lot, but the side torso bombs of the standard Crusader always worried me.  Whenever I used one, I try to drain those side torsos of LRM ammo as quickly as possible.  The other half of the problem is the SRMs in the legs and the medium lasers in the arms: you get into a situation where you're hesitant to use punches or kicks, because either way you won't be able to use some of those weapons.

If I could get away with using the 2R version I totally would. I don't see why it can't be outside of their level technical expertise. It's just that the 2R is more commonly associated with Royal units.

Otherwise I'll just have to get used to the idea of having it's torso yeeted into outer space like a Russian tank turret. 😝

If your doing the Thug, the Wyvern was also made by Maltex Corporation.

TT

That's a design that could use a CGL update.

ALSO TO ADD: My 'source', if they had a choice to make a certain mech part of the NAM, would choose the Spector. Kind of like a mini-Exterminator from what I gather.

[Giovanni Blasini]

If I could get away with using the 2R version I totally would. I don't see why it can't be outside of their level technical expertise. It's just that the 2R is more commonly associated with Royal units.

Otherwise I'll just have to get used to the idea of having it's torso yeeted into outer space like a Russian tank turret. 😝

The CRD-2R actually shows up on three lists in the Star League era, thanks to being on the "Star League General" list:

• Terran Hegemony, representing second-line militias and defensive garrisons[/url]
  
  • Star League Regular, representing standard-line SLDF forces
  • SLDF Royal
  
  In fact, it's so common, that it's also on the Inner Sphere General and Periphery General lists for the Star League era as well.
  
  

  That's a design that could use a CGL update.
  
  ALSO TO ADD: My 'source', if they had a choice to make a certain mech part of the NAM, would choose the Spector. Kind of like a mini-Exterminator from what I gather.
  

  
  Interesting choice.  That'd be the first XL-equipped 'Mech we know for Niops, given it's running a 245 XL, notwithstanding the advanced stealth systems.

[D-Rock]

Then imma gonna use it! *LOL*

Also, keep in mind that the Spector is in no way an official confirmation.

[Daryk]

I still maintain the Spector deserved a Succession Wars downgrade...  8)

[Giovanni Blasini]

I still maintain the Spector deserved a Succession Wars downgrade...  8)

I wouldn't mind, though it would almost make the Wolfhound pointless, depending on how you did it (I'm in favor of keeping the large laser and reducing the speed).

[chanman]

I feel like this video on Soviet green applies to SLDF Olive-Drab  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHFWcC3DQnY

[Giovanni Blasini]

I was today years old when I learned about the Spirit Walker.  Think Niops could set up a joint production facility with the Sea Foxes to sell it across the Periphery?

[DOC_Agren]

 :thumbsup:
nice design

[glitterboy2098]

might want to fix your link, it has an extra / that is preventing the link from working right.
and i had to check sarna to verify it wasn't some fan thing.. it's real. huh.

[Giovanni Blasini]

might want to fix your link, it has an extra / that is preventing the link from working right.
and i had to check sarna to verify it wasn't some fan thing.. it's real. huh.

Yeah, it's weird.  The MUL has it available to Clan Wolf as Unique in the Early Republic/Late Republic/Dark Age era, and extinct in the ilClan era, but it starts out pretty widely available before slowly winding down.  I could see the Sea Foxes dusting that off with Niops and selling it to other factions.

Actually, wouldn't it be hilarious to have the NAM forces eventually built around the Kokou Defense Tank, Spirit Walker Omni, Issedone OmniFighter and Nighthawk PA(L)s for good measure?

[glitterboy2098]

would the seafoxes have the plans for it though? if they did i could see them selling the plans to RSW or KIC, who would find an omnimech version of a mech they already build easy enough to switch production to.(especially KIC, which iirc already had a pretty good relationship with the sharkfoxes, thanks to the BL-18-KNT production.)

if they don't though, they'd have to redevelop it. which might be too much work for limited return. though perhaps they could give KIC some data on the homeworld machine, resulting in a IS tech omni black knight.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Ran into an interesting problem in trying to use the MUL to determine forces for factions they don't actively track, including Niops: the IS General and Periphery General lists aren't fully inclusive of all general items.  It's talked about in the following two posts:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/msg1912339/#msg1912339

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/msg1912349/#msg1912349

and to a lesser degree here:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/errata/master-unit-list-mul-feedback-thread-iii-read-the-first-post/msg1912442/#msg1912442

To summarize: some units on the MUL like, say, your typical 28-person or 21-person infantry platoons are not on the Periphery General list, because factions like the Taurian Concordat and Marian Hegemony use non-standard sizes for their units.  So any units not specifically shared across all Periphery factions, including ones that use non-standard unit sizes, won't show up on the Periphery General list at all.

The difficulty: the Periphery General list only tracks units that all Periphery factions tracked by the MUL use, and Niops, along with other small Periphery factions like New St. Andrews and Randis aren't tracked.  Thus, there are significant gaps in some areas of the list if you're playing one of these factions, notably in areas like infantry: if you don't like Tariq-mounted infantry, you're out of luck - the exoskeleton suits like the Groundhog that show up on the Periphery General MUL are for the base suit, not for the suit equipped into squads of any particular number.

This shows up in other ways too, though.  What's New St. Andrews without the Arbiter?  Out of luck, because the Arbiter is only on the Inner Sphere General list.  Randis has the Periphery General's HWK-3F HawkWolf, but gets denied their HWK-4F upgrade, because the MUL only has that down for the Taurians, Calderon Protectorate and Fitvelt - it's not on the Periphery General list.

Why does it matter?  Because just like some games prohibit custom 'Mechs or other units, some games require you to take units that are specific to your faction list on the MUL, and because they're not actually tracked, you can't get a really accurate list of what those factions use from the MUL.

[Daryk]

Uh... Non-tracked factions aren't... tracked? ???

I agree it makes it hard when playing with strangers, but anyone familiar with your work should be willing to accept what you've built.  It's completely reasonable in my opinion... :)

[Baldur Mekorig]

This shows up in other ways too, though.  What's New St. Andrews without the Arbiter?  Out of luck, because the Arbiter is only on the Inner Sphere General list.  Randis has the Periphery General's HWK-3F HawkWolf, but gets denied their HWK-4F upgrade, because the MUL only has that down for the Taurians, Calderon Protectorate and Fitvelt - it's not on the Periphery General list.

Why does it matter?  Because just like some games prohibit custom 'Mechs or other units, some games require you to take units that are specific to your faction list on the MUL, and because they're not actually tracked, you can't get a really accurate list of what those factions use from the MUL.

Welcome to the Small Periphery facion (SPF) actuality!

Honestly, when i create a force of those factions for a regulated game, i just talk with my play group. Example: The Scorpions having Infiltrador Mk II and Longinus Magnetic.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Uh... Non-tracked factions aren't... tracked? ???

I agree it makes it hard when playing with strangers, but anyone familiar with your work should be willing to accept what you've built.  It's completely reasonable in my opinion... :)

Oh, I get that the non-tracked factions aren’t tracked.  I figured the whole purpose of an IS General list or Periphery General list was to include not only all the tracked factions, but as an umbrella for any of the factions in those regions that weren’t otherwise covered, and it’s not.  At all. 

[Daryk]

Agreed!  The scope of the rules is FAR beyond what's tracked in the MUL.  Just like our imaginations...  ^-^

[Sartris]

Adding micro periphery nations to the general lists would make them so small that they would barely exist. Find the overlap between niops, randis, mica majority, and various pirate state polities. Take away from that what the taurians and canopians don’t use any more. Then make sure those lists aren’t bigger than the militaries they cover. It’s not a practical exercise for us

[Daryk]

To be clear, I'm not advocating to drive the MUL team insane with minutia.  I'm just trying to point out that the MUL is a point of departure, not a destination...  8)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Adding micro periphery nations to the general lists would make them so small that they would barely exist. Find the overlap between niops, randis, mica majority, and various pirate state polities. Take away from that what the taurians and canopians don’t use any more. Then make sure those lists aren’t bigger than the militaries they cover. It’s not a practical exercise for us

Yeah, to be clear, I'm not advocating the MUL add those factions to the list, either.  I get why they're not there.  My point was more that the MUL is a less useful tool than I initially thought for selecting units for these factions, because the term "General" when it comes to the IS/Periphery/Clan General lists, because it's not a generic catch-all for the entire region, just the tracked factions in that region.

[Baldur Mekorig]

To be clear, I'm not advocating to drive the MUL team insane with minutia.  I'm just trying to point out that the MUL is a point of departure, not a destination...  8)

Agree. I drive insane the MUL team with another type of minutia.  ;D

Personally, i think the minor factions is best to use the old FM rules of "Use X RAT, plus another Y RAT" and so on.

[Adacas]

I think that following the idea of Baldur Mekorig, each one of those Factions could add Mechs/Tanks/ASF from the closest factions or with which they could have more interaction.

Nyops: Marik/Marian/Pirates
New St Andrews Pirates/Marian/Lothian/ maybe Lyran

[Starfury]

Field Manual Periphery and Updates RATs aren't a bad way to go either, since they contain tables for the smaller powers along with the general Periphery ones from 3085 and 3145.  I use all four along with the general Periphery MUL along with logical imports from the IS general MUL when I'm building smaller power lists for the Periphery in the Dark Age or the ilClan era.

[D-Rock]

Field Manual Periphery and Updates RATs aren't a bad way to go either, since they contain tables for the smaller powers along with the general Periphery ones from 3085 and 3145.  I use all four along with the general Periphery MUL along with logical imports from the IS general MUL when I'm building smaller power lists for the Periphery in the Dark Age or the ilClan era.

For earlier lists, and perhaps what they could still have left, there's always the Comstar list from the old core rulebook. That's what I went with when making my NAM formations.

[Starfury]

Liberation of Terra 1 and 2 Star Leauge Regular Army RATs could also work for earlier times.

[Daryk]

This is true!  :thumbsup:

[D-Rock]

Liberation of Terra 1 and 2 Star Leauge Regular Army RATs could also work for earlier times.

YES!

Even in the ilClan era there has to be some remnants of those Star League era mechs remaining. That's the leading premise I go with when speculating what would be in the NAM. Anything before the Amaris Civil War.

[Starfury]

It's also important to note that many of the SLDF units are still in production by IS/Periphery powers, or available from Inner Sphere cast offs (especially Word of Blake and Circinus Federation leftovers salvaged by various powers.)


For Mechs
Atlas II
Atlas 7D
Devastator 2S
King Crab 000Rb
Nightstar 9J
Highlander 732
Highlander 732b
Emperor 6A
Stalker 3Fb
Stalker 3F
Longbow 7Q
Longbow 0W
Longbow 0W2
Longbow 8C
Battlemaster 1Gb
Battlemaster 1Gc
Battlemaster 1Gbc
Victor 9B
Orion 1K
Marauder 2R
Marauder 3R
Black Knight 6L-KNT
Black Knight 6b-KNT
Warhammer 6R
Warhammer 6Rb
Warhammer 7A
Excalibur B2b
Archer 2R
Archer 2Rb
Thunderbolt 5S
Thunderbolt 5b
Crusader 2R
Crusader 3R
Cestus 6Y
Bombardier 12D (though some of us still ask why)
Ostroc 2Cb (This has become the most common refit for the Ostroc. Everyone has access to this thing.)
Rifleman 3N
Galahad 2D
Wolverine II 7H
Wolverine 6R
Shadow Hawk 2H-rb
Shadow Hawk 2H
Lynx 9Q
Kintaro 19b
Griffin 2N
Griffin 1N
Dervish 6M
Trebuchet 3C
Hunchback 4G
Crab 27b
Chameleon TRC 4B
Wyvern 5N
Phoenix Hawk 1r
Phoenix Hawk 1rb
Phoenix Hawk 1rc
Vulcan 5T
Vulcan 2T
Sentinel 3S
Clint 2-3T
Talon 5W
Panther 9R
Night Hawk NTK 2Q
Firestarter 9H
Spider 5V
Javelin 10N
Javelin 10A
Wasp 1A
Stinger 3Rb
Stinger 3R
Stinger 3G
Locust 1V
Locust 1Vb










 

[Giovanni Blasini]

It's also important to note that many of the SLDF units are still in production by IS/Periphery powers, or available from Inner Sphere cast offs (especially Word of Blake and Circinus Federation leftovers salvaged by various powers.)

That's actually a really good point, and the two named Niops Militia 'Mechs are certainly on the list.  And while they may not be able to build more 'Mechs at the moment, they may have enough industry left to build wear-and-tear maintenance components.