Talk to me about Artillery

[abou]

As the title says -- how do you roll? Tips? Advice?

I've seen talk of using artillery for fast-moving units, but I am assuming that is with "on board" artillery where the flight time is within the same turn.

Primarily I play the 3025-era, but it is all fair game. I haven't truly had the chance to use artillery yet so wanted to get a better grasp on it.

[Dayton3]

As the title says -- how do you roll? Tips? Advice?

I've seen talk of using artillery for fast-moving units, but I am assuming that is with "on board" artillery where the flight time is within the same turn.

Primarily I play the 3025-era, but it is all fair game. I haven't truly had the chance to use artillery yet so wanted to get a better grasp on it.

IIRC,   large artillery is available for use in every era of Battletech.    The only caveat is that due to the required logistical support for movement and resupply,  large artillery units like Long Toms are pretty much confined to major house units.

Though again IIRC there are actually a couple of mercenary artillery units.

Long Toms are also prominent in being deployed on Fortress class dropships.

[AlphaMirage]

I would not use artillery for fast units to much chance I will guess wrong and that the force would overtake my guns. Artillery is best used against things like missile boats or other fire support units (Awesome, etc...) because there is less chance of friendly fire and these units don't typically move much.

The only exception to this is a fast moving arrowIV with guided missiles and at least two TAGgers in play. This also applies to copperheads but preferably offboard as most self-propelled guns are very slow.

Using fighters for fast units is much easier as they likely have little long range firepower that could threaten your plane. Also they can carry Arrow IVs as bombs

[dgorsman]

Definitely not a good thing against fast movers.  Its good to have some security forces in place otherwise even a modest unit can take them out of action.  Security forces also allows artillery to stay put, which is important for dialing in shots.  It doesn't help if they have to keep shifting position to avoid getting shot.

Try to have spotters with LOS to the impact area for correcting missed shots.  Take some time picking the first couple of target hexes, they'll have the opportunity for the most number of shots and most correction.  Sometimes its worth it to toss a couple of extra shots there that don't actually do anything to get it on-target or close-enough for later.

Know where the scatter area is so you know what 'danger close' is when you need it.  You will suffer from friendly-fire at some point, just try to make the best of it.  At least with Mechs - artillery is vicious against infantry, so keep them out of the immediate area.

Each additional tube has a multiplication, not addition, effect i.e. going from two to three is better than a 'plus one' would suggest.  One  tube is kinda-sorta OK if you're shooting at static targets but can take too long to dial in to be tactically useful.  Two firing at the same target covers more area.  Three is pretty much minimum for use against mobile targets and allows splitting two/one against different targets.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Generally, against fast targets the only thing I feel that artillery is good for is dropping FASCAMs in the back field.  Aside from that, go for massed fire every chance you get.  Artillery is great when it comes to keeping your opponent from bunching their forces up: punish them mercilessly if they ever do so.

[Colt Ward]

Answer pending- too long for the time tonight

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/fan-articles/artillery-guide-how-to-kill-em-without-looking-at-em/

Did you want this?

[Simon Landmine]

"If you're going to ask about artillery, you're going to have to ask LOUDER!"
[escapee from the old jokes home]

With regard to dealing with fast-movers, people are probably talking about Artillery Cannon, which have almost the same names, but use different rules. Direct-fire [oops!] Hex-targeting area-effect weapons are handy for dealing with those high movement TMMs.

[Frabby]

I've primarily used artillery as an objective or storyline element in BT games. The presence of offboard artillery makes scout 'Mechs pretty dangerous against slow moving assaults or grounded DropShips.

[AlphaMirage]

"If you're going to ask about artillery, you're going to have to ask LOUDER!"
[escapee from the old jokes home]

With regard to dealing with fast-movers, people are probably talking about Artillery Cannon, which have almost the same names, but use different rules. Direct-fire area-effect weapons are handy for dealing with those high movement TMMs.

True for that although it still bothers me about them, they should just be mortars instead of the mech mortars we have.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Artillery Cannons are indirect fire weapons.  You take a permanent +1 modifier on all attack rolls because of that.

[Colt Ward]

True for that although it still bothers me about them, they should just be mortars instead of the mech mortars we have.

Nah . . . artillery still can fire in direct fire, they actually have a doctrine for it.

You know, I have never seen Paul's article before, and judging by the timeframe it was a period I was not on the boards much IIRC.  It is a great article and covers most things succinctly.  His summation matches up with a lot of current & historical artillery doctrine, but I will throw out the official term- suppression.  Artillery's primary role is suppression of enemy formations.  This includes area denial for BT purposes, degrading the combat power of a enemy force, and controlling the initiative.

To put my comments in context, most of my experience with artillery comes from MegaMek.  Most of that comes from the MM campaign servers (BV = size of map) using mixed companies or larger; or a campaign using big maps (96x96).  I will not address the use against the Bot for the simple reason half of what artillery allows you to do is wasted on the bot.  What might apply the most is the MM server use- for the simple reason was most of that was blind drops by BV matching and was pretty cutthroat.  All of it was onboard artillery . . . I dislike offboard except for strategic campaign play- then it is 'which fight has call on the firebase?'

Artillery use in BT really is a artform compared to the math formula it is IRL.  I knew someone who could use the unguided rounds to herd an enemy advance into his pre-planned location.  I learned a couple of tricks from him, but that was one of the most masterful uses of artillery I have ever seen or heard of and a lesson in 'the easy way is mined.'

I will highlight what I think is most important in what Paul said-

Mass- its the name of the IRL principle, which means you put as many guns into the fight as possible.  Artillery and Battle Armor are where I always hear the complaint 'I used one of those once, it did nothing but suck & die.'  It tells me two things immediately- you did not use enough and you did not use it right.  Even in small games, I think you need to have 2 or more 'tubes' which gets tricky with BV limitations . . . but Field Guns make this easier, I fielded 3 2g/8 Thumpers in a 5k IRL force and while I would have preferred Snipers the BV was quite small compared to other Artillery units.  I do not think I have fielded more than 6 in a reinforced battalion per side sized game, but that was b/c of the server rules, once you get to that level you are ensuring a hit is going to be pretty close to your target area.

Suppression-  IMO this gets a bit into the psychological area . . . and I used it against my opponents.  On those servers a half dozen of us were known to frequently use artillery, and they played with Blind Drops and Double Blind.  Blind drops would tell you just the number of units you were facing- it could be mechs, armor, BA, infantry or artillery but it was always a question . . . and if you used artillery, you prayed for a Lyran Wall of Steel or some turret tech player.  One of the most satisfying uses of artillery I ever had was against someone whose tactics revolved around parking a pair of Dire Wolf As in woods on a hill and just waiting for you to walk towards him to die.  I want to say it was 20k per side, and I had a Sniper and . . . dual A4 carrier?  Parked my artillery and most of my mechs & armor on the other side of a hill from him . . . then started lobbing rounds since it was not a auto-hit location.  When he eventually decided to come after me, his pair of Dire Wolves were pretty beat up . . . and I caught one of his lead unit with Homing A4 with a 2 turn salvo at once- my launcher was less than 17 hexes from his Mad Dog.  After being TAG'd the 2 turn flight A4 hit . . . his head, second homing A4 with the 1 turn flight hit is CT.  He retreated after that . . . and whenever I played him again, he never set up thinking I had to walk towards him.  He always assumed artillery and after the painful lesson kept mobile.

Other players would avoid the obvious firing points- heavy woods behind partial terrain, especially if it was 2 or 3 hexes together.  So artillery use- especially with multiple tubes- will cause players to forgo obvious covered firing points.  You will also force them to spread out, instead of having the Banshee, Atlas, Thunderhawk, and Devastator advancing shoulder to shoulder with 7 gauss rifles, ERLLs, ERPPCs and a LRM rack all having nearly the same TH while creating a super AC/20-style bubble, now they have to spread out.  So 2-3 hexes between the four powerful units which just might also place trees in the way, usually they will be in different range bands, and in some cases will even be out of arc . . . all of which makes engaging those 4 mechs spread out easier than if they were clumped together.

You can also cause your enemy to split their forces.  Instead of the flanker trying to get behind your battle line, it goes scooting off to find or deal with your artillery.  Tabletop I sent my troop carrier VTOL off to mess with my opponent's field gun artillery, hoping to hit enough troopers to knock the gun out (suppress!) of action.  But I have also seen (or forced) light or med Clan mechs to go hunting behind hills for artillery vehicles- which due to BV costs, is also a win.  My 600-700 BV artillery vehicle made you send 1100 BV of Clan lightmech searching all while throwing damage at your assaults & 4/6 heavies- take that Night Gyr E!

[Simon Landmine]

Artillery Cannons are indirect fire weapons.  You take a permanent +1 modifier on all attack rolls because of that.

Have I missed an errata again? According to TacOps:AUE, p.97, "Artillery Cannon attacks may be resolved normally or using the rules for indirect LRM fire", so you can direct-fire them, or lob them over hills, as desired. They target the hex, but they don't get the +4 bonus for the hex being immobile.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I'm just going off the last version of the rules I'm familiar with.  Which could easily be out of date.

[Cannonshop]

As the title says -- how do you roll? Tips? Advice?

I've seen talk of using artillery for fast-moving units, but I am assuming that is with "on board" artillery where the flight time is within the same turn.

Primarily I play the 3025-era, but it is all fair game. I haven't truly had the chance to use artillery yet so wanted to get a better grasp on it.

First off: Scatter means Artillery is the only system in the game that has built-in friendly-fire rules.  meaning you can dust your own guys on a bad roll, which sets your OWN 'area of denial' where you need to not have your units when it hits.

Second is that a single artillery gun is worse than useless-because scatter, because it's hard to hit anything with it, and because of the size of the dinner plate you're dropping with the bigger versions (Long Tom, Arrow IV standard mode, sniper to an extent) a single gun isn't a force multiplier for your side, it's a force divider-you're more likely to hit your own guys, than the enemy when using a single tube.  This is true whether you're using a single tube on-map, or off-map.

To use artillery effectively, you need to keep in mind the widest scatter range of your shot, and stay away from that range...at least, with your infantry, light vehicles, or anything with thin armor or exposed criticals.

'good enough' is three to six tubes.  That's what you're going to need to be actively more hazardous to your opponent, than yourself, and big maps.  Forget the single-mapsheet duelling map, or even the double-sheet layouts, you need a map with size and scale, six mapsheets or more if possible-so you can actually deny terrain and influence the battle with your artillery, as opposed to having a random chance to walk 20 point bombs on your own guys.

Tactics for dummies *(like me!)

1. Don't bring artillery in singles.  you need a battery to be useful, so if you can't bring a battery, bring something else.  Airstrikes are nice.
2.Don't try to use artillery in a phonebooth fight, you'll lose more often than you will without it.
3. Artillery is best used to influence the other side's movement choices, damage them before the merge, and create denial zones.  A 'denial zone' is an area that is taking so much fire, that it will chew up their lighter units and hamper their heavier units.  (this goes back to 1 and 2).  to do this, requires planning your shots so that they fall in a general area in a rough pattern, and keep it falling.  (means: bring lots of ammo, you're going to burn through it.)  Typically, I use arty batteries to close off routes of approach or channel the enemy.  This means putting down several rounds each turn into a given segment of the map that my guys aren't in.
4. Avoid going into your own battered zone.  Yes, that crippled locust is a tempting target, he's also where you're dropping shell.  do not send your infantry, tanks, or other light 'mechs in to finish him off.  The scatter diagram is too random and too wide to do that without greasing your own guys.

Skirtaround the beaten zone, don't try to run through it, you'll fail.

5. violate (4) on offense...but shift your targets at the speed you're advancing, away from you, and toward him.  In this case, you're applying something akin to a "curtain battery"-you're dropping arty rounds just ahead of your line of advance, which is another reason you don't want to overrun your own artillery shells, it does bad things to your forces, instead of your opponents.

If you're going to get close, try to make sure that if it DOES fall back toward you, you're only taking the splash and not the full.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

At least artillery no longer risks scattering all the way to behind the unit that fired it anymore.

[AlphaMirage]

Another thing that this brings up is, what rules are you using for said artillery. Battlemech Manual combat support rules are much nicer (for limited shots of course) to use than an actual artillery vehicle. That does however not really change what it is best used against which is principally large concentrations of enemies, or that guy in heavy woods at long range lobbing tons of firepower. The damage there is more psychological than anything else however, better utilized on the player of said unit than the unit itself.

[Colt Ward]

First off: Scatter means Artillery is the only system in the game that has built-in friendly-fire rules.  meaning you can dust your own guys on a bad roll, which sets your OWN 'area of denial' where you need to not have your units when it hits.

Second is that a single artillery gun is worse than useless-because scatter, because it's hard to hit anything with it, and because of the size of the dinner plate you're dropping with the bigger versions (Long Tom, Arrow IV standard mode, sniper to an extent) a single gun isn't a force multiplier for your side, it's a force divider-you're more likely to hit your own guys, than the enemy when using a single tube.  This is true whether you're using a single tube on-map, or off-map.

To use artillery effectively, you need to keep in mind the widest scatter range of your shot, and stay away from that range...at least, with your infantry, light vehicles, or anything with thin armor or exposed criticals.

'good enough' is three to six tubes.  That's what you're going to need to be actively more hazardous to your opponent, than yourself, and big maps.  Forget the single-mapsheet duelling map, or even the double-sheet layouts, you need a map with size and scale, six mapsheets or more if possible-so you can actually deny terrain and influence the battle with your artillery, as opposed to having a random chance to walk 20 point bombs on your own guys.

You keep going back to the old scatter rules- it is no longer like that in the game. 

Standard gunnery of 4 plus 7 for IDF artillery means an 11 to hit . . . means at worst it is 9 hexes of scatter on the direct path- and you have to roll the difficult 2.  With 9 hexes of scatter you also end up with 6 big 'slices' of that scatter you are perfectly safe in that slice 3 hexes from your target provided it is not a Long Tom which is 4 hexes from the target.  Long Toms also leave correspondingly smaller 'safe' zones.

Now that is also a single gun firing on a target . . .

When you start doing a fire plan for multiple guns on the same target zone . . . well, it is why I wish commo gear could give you FDC capabilities- besides decreasing the rolls.  To sum it up-

Fire Plans (will add pictures later)

Tight- Splash overlaps, so your target hexes are at most 1 hex between them.  While it can work with 2, ideally you want at least 3 for this or any other fire plan since the best coverage gives you a chance to bracket the target and nullify the 'safe' zones for a single target point's scatter.  Note, this is for a group of enemies like the Lyran Wall of Steel I mentioned earlier.  A tightly bunched group of enemy units begs for splash damage, and firing into a tight formation will make scatter not matter as much.

Spread-  Splash damage hexes touch each other, so 2 hexes between target hexes unless Long Tom.  If the target area does not have the units as close together.



Gunnery & Other Skills
Little note here . . . for my artillery Field Gun platoons, I did increase the gunnery skills (especially if tube- lot cheaper to practice) but you should also give them a 7 or IIRC 8 for their Anti-Mech skills.  For one thing, I am not sure they are even capable of making anti-mech attacks due to their movement type (or at least for some of them).  For vehicular units, it is one of the very few times in BT I do not care about the 2 skill separation.  SP Artillery does not spend the time on precision driving for the same purposes as armor . . . so I would rather RP it a bit and conserve the BV for a 2/5 or 3/6 artillery vehicle.

[Dapper Apples]

TW pg 40 says conventional infantry start with 8 anti-mech skill, and also says mechanized infantry can't make anti-mech attacks (but I guess still have the skill?)

[Colt Ward]

Thought it was something like that- which is why they get that skill level, otherwise it is really green 7.  BUT . . . some folks follow with the 'two skill separations' rule, though I also nix it on BA that cannot make anti-mech attacks like quads.

[Nikas_Zekeval]

So, how would the Arrow IV Demolisher rate as a good artillery vehicle.  Two A4, 35 rounds (7 tons) between them.  The Schiltron has two A4 and an extra ton of ammo, but much more expensive.

[Colt Ward]

Schil is also more vulnerable being wheeled . . . and that C3i is too big a target IMO.

Multiple tons of ammo depends on what you have in play.  It is why I love the Marksmen, Ballista and a few others b/c I get 10 shots per ton and with multiple tons can mix it up smoke, copperhead, HE or cluster.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Obviously with the Arrow IV you want plenty of homing rounds, but it's nice to bring a couple tons of standard missile for big fun splash damage if the situation presents itself.  And a ton or two of the different specialty rounds, depending on the battlefield.

[Sartris]

but it's nice to bring a couple tons of standard missile for big fun splash damage if the situation presents itself.  And a ton or two of the different specialty rounds, depending on the battlefield.

also handy if your TAG units get taken out

[Col Toda]

On board Arrow IV rules . If urban I like Shiltron primes if anywhere else O-Bakemono's  . 6 launchers minimum.  My lance of O Bakemonos have 3 mechs with the standard 2 Arrow  IV launchers each and a custom one with 2 Mech Mortar 8s . Have other units with LRM launchers so have some Homing ammo for the Arrow IVs and some semi guided for Mech mortar and LRM. TAG phase happens just after movement phase should you hit fire the guided ammo . If it misses fire air burst mech mortar on target hex or Arrow IV standard ammo to where scatter will be most effective normally the hex behind one of the lead units .

[dgorsman]

One point in the Schiltron's favor is the C3 Master allows monitoring of remote sensors (not in MegaMek yet though).  Those are pretty handing for keeping an eye on things downrange without getting spotters in harms way.  And the built-in TAG in case someone gets too close.

The wheeled motive system is a downside when on the attack.  When using it to defend a fixed site such as a city, fortress, or factory site, much less of an issue.  And if they make it into the built up area its an omni-swap away from an LRM, SRM, or MRM carrier for fun and surprises.

[Colt Ward]

The wheeled motive system is a downside when on the attack.  When using it to defend a fixed site such as a city, fortress, or factory site, much less of an issue.  And if they make it into the built up area its an omni-swap away from an LRM, SRM, or MRM carrier for fun and surprises.

The artillery or LRM versions are the only ones that make sense for a C3 Master machine.  The C3M need to defend themselves but their job is command and control- not going pew pew or dakkkkkka.  Wish we had gotten a plain Omni tank with C3 slave pod versions.  How many UAC/2 or AC/2s could you have fit in a turret with LRMs facing front when tied into a network through a C3 slave?

[Col Toda]

I agree for the most part on the Shiltron Arrow IV or LRM mainly  . Though I did have fun in a city game with 2 standard Wights 1 Wight varient withe a Snub Nosed PPC and jump jets and a Shiltron with 2 RAC /5 s  in a network used remote sensors in the surronding block to know roughly where an enemy is  have the mech jump 6 hexes away fire 2 heavy PPCs and a Snub Nosed PPC to make holed and 2 RAC/5s and medium lasers to exploit those holes .

Remote Sensors are not great spotters but they do alert you so you can postion better spotters . A remote sensor network is only a good enough spotter should a dropship land in your perimeter network . You target the Center hex and if you miss by as much as 4 hexes you might still be doing damage .

Sinking some resources having a network 95 hexes a side is easy . Having one 16 KM / side is hard but just on the sane side of feasible.  More becomes stupid labor intensive mess while in theory possible would not be done except perhaps on a  Capitol City of a Major Affiliation  16 KM is a good number because a battry of Long Toms have a Maximum  Range of 15.3 KM . So their is the potential the first artillery barrage is in the air before the Dropship bay doors open one to 3 vollys might hit before a big dropship fully unloads and scatter might hurt unloading units .

Arrow IV  is the best on board weapon . Long Tom with HE or Copperheads is the best off board . Off board Arrow IV  with illumination  rounds is excellent  . In a night fight having your 5  pre plotted hexes as a band of light so your side does not eat night penalties but theirs does is very good

[Crow]

Does anyone use PBI with Artillery tubes? Are they worth using?

[Col Toda]

Presuming PBI stands for Poor Bloody Infantry  for spotting or manning purposes.  Frequently before 3058 and battle armor.  To nearly never after . Manning a Long Tom requires 30 troops the max size platoon size any loss of manpower you lose  function quickly. A squad of stealth battle armor can hide in a building  with a good  vantage point that will not be .

[Colt Ward]

Does anyone use PBI with Artillery tubes? Are they worth using?

Infantry are more BV-efficient spotters than BA . . . and if you are using hidden unit rules, do not have to reveal themselves to spot IIRC.  This gets even better if you are using squad rules.

Artillery Field Gun platoons are better as Sniper or Thumpers IMO.  As Toda said, with Long Toms you lose a person and the platoon is combat ineffective while Snipers need 20 effectives and Thumpers need 15.  They are also limited to a single ton of ammo per gun, so the LT would get 5 shots while the other two would get 10 & 20 respectively.  Thumper Field Gun platoons are IMO pretty effective for dropping smoke rounds in support.

[Crow]

Artillery Field Gun platoons are better as Sniper or Thumpers IMO.  As Toda said, with Long Toms you lose a person and the platoon is combat ineffective while Snipers need 20 effectives and Thumpers need 15.  They are also limited to a single ton of ammo per gun, so the LT would get 5 shots while the other two would get 10 & 20 respectively.  Thumper Field Gun platoons are IMO pretty effective for dropping smoke rounds in support.

I was more specifically thinking about infantry that came with a Sniper or Arrow IV, so I wasn't particularly worried about losing manpower and losing the gun. I guess mainly my question, is it worth using infantry and an artillery tube over an artillery vehicle like a Vali or Chaparral in terms of BV?

[Colt Ward]

The Mechanized Thumper Platoon at 2/8 is 96 BV.

The Thumper Artillery Vehicle at 2/8 is 687 BV.

Which is why I said Artillery Field Gun platoons were the most BV efficient method to get artillery on the table- as I said, I fit 3 guns in a 5k BV force.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

The big weaknesses of Artillery field guns are, of course, that they're effectively immobile targets and really can't take any sort of retaliation.  But that was obvious due to them being infantry.

[abou]

Lots of good info, guys!

The biggest take away for me is shifting expectations. Artillery is not so much to cause damage, but to corral the opponent. If a strike does cause damage, great. But if not, you've scared your opponent away from that area of the map.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

Also infantry field gun is susceptible against counter battery. That's why armored howitzer is a thing in our era.

And, if you want to threaten the enemy armor with artillery, you better consider Thumper or Arrow IV Copperhead/Homing round/missile. HE rounds can scatter and you can't make sure the opponents are move toward what your shells are land next turn exactly. But you may guess where to shoot copperhead/Homing much easier for it can hit any enemy/hex with TAGged within 8 hexes.

Arrow IV missile cause massive 20 damage per hit, so shoot six Arrow IV and successfully TAGging the enemy means the enemy may hit around five AC/20 rounds(consider its 4+ to hit), before the weapon attack phase. Although you need more than three TAGs to ensure that it hits, but if you hit the target it is surely crippled at worst.

Copperhead of Thumper is weak, sure, but there is a glitch on Thumper's Copperhead rounds. If Homing/Copperhead miss by failed to roll 4+, it hits the hex instead and cause 5 damage to all the units on the hex. If Homing/Copperhead hits the target, it cause the full damage to the target hit and cause 5 damage to the all other units on the hex. The point is, that 5 damage is fixed and all types of Copperhead/Homing rounds/missiles are cause 5 damage to the hex, and Copperhead round on Thumper cause 5 damage on a hit. Thus, you may shoot your TAG to the hex of the enemy, NOT the enemy itself, and enjoy -4 to skill roll for shoot the hex as well as 5 auto damage per one Thumper. Only block the line of sight to not allow shooting TAG to the hex prevents it. Also it happens before the weapon attack phase as well, so the enemy may fall before they had a chance to shoot.

[Colt Ward]

Also infantry field gun is susceptible against counter battery. That's why armored howitzer is a thing in our era.

And does not matter in BT b/c there is no mechanism for counterbattery.  BTU Artillery is massively nerf'd . . . Roman ballistas could more accurately predict the impact point.

Homing vs HE gets into the head game with your opponent.  I have taken a TAG VTOL that was fast (13/20?) when I had not a single Homing round for any of my artillery.  My opponent wasted time (movement and firing) trying to avoid or bring down the VTOL.  Puppy's point is valid if you are hamstringing yourself and taking a single tube.  If you take say 3 of those Thumper Field Gun platoons, it is under 300 BV for the 20 shots where the first roll is a 9- plot them as a triangle around where you want and you have better odds of 1 hitting close.  The MoF for that would be 6 hexes, more realistically 3 or 4 . . . and it will stop them bunching up.

[PuppyLikesLaserPointers]

And does not matter in BT b/c there is no mechanism for counterbattery.  BTU Artillery is massively nerf'd . . . Roman ballistas could more accurately predict the impact point.

Homing vs HE gets into the head game with your opponent.  I have taken a TAG VTOL that was fast (13/20?) when I had not a single Homing round for any of my artillery.  My opponent wasted time (movement and firing) trying to avoid or bring down the VTOL.  Puppy's point is valid if you are hamstringing yourself and taking a single tube.  If you take say 3 of those Thumper Field Gun platoons, it is under 300 BV for the 20 shots where the first roll is a 9- plot them as a triangle around where you want and you have better odds of 1 hitting close.  The MoF for that would be 6 hexes, more realistically 3 or 4 . . . and it will stop them bunching up.

Check Counter-Battery Fire, 186. TO. There IS counter-battery mechanism, that is along with artillery rules. And perhaps it is why you need to have some Long Toms anyways. Maybe it is also akin to the real world artillery; on WWII to Korean War, when small and large caliber artillery are coexist but larger one was uncommon, large caliber artillery are tend to reserve for counter-battery rather than actively participate in fire support mission. Their longer range is also a reason for this, though.

And, yeah, you need to have more guns, rather than one big gun, if you want to bring some artillery. I'd rather have a battery of Thumpers over one Long Tom.

Also... if you want to support the armored combat, I think that you need TAG-guided rounds anyways. It is not impossible to hit the HE rounds, but it is not that easy, and more importantly, it does nothing in the dogfight because you cannot avoid friendly fire in this case. But guided rounds can still supports the frontline without risking friendly fire as long as they hit the TAG. So, if I can afford both types of rounds, I will shoot the HEs on the early games, and quickly switch to TAG-guided rounds as soon as I expect med-short range combat next turn.

By the way, how many guns in a battery is common in Battletech universe? In our real worlds it seems 6 to 8 guns is common formation of a battery, though.

[truetanker]

Wish we had gotten a plain Omni tank with C3 slave pod versions.  How many UAC/2 or AC/2s could you have fit in a turret with LRMs facing front when tied into a network through a C3 slave?

Let's see here : C3 lance

Schiltron Prime
Partisan Quad RAC
Partisan Fuel Cell LRM
Ajax A

Or my favorite unit ( so far ) : Arrow of Doom!

Ajax D
Demolisher Arrow
Demolisher Arrow
Rommel Howitzer

( That's five Arrow, enough Support to see everything! And still protect... )

And the last part :

How many UAC/2 or AC/2s could you have fit in a turret with LRMs facing front when tied into a network through a C3 slave?

AC/2 Carrier C3 Slave : 5 LB-X-AC/2...

TT

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Schil is also more vulnerable being wheeled . . . and that C3i is too big a target IMO.

The artillery or LRM versions are the only ones that make sense for a C3 Master machine.  The C3M need to defend themselves but their job is command and control- not going pew pew or dakkkkkka.  Wish we had gotten a plain Omni tank with C3 slave pod versions.  How many UAC/2 or AC/2s could you have fit in a turret with LRMs facing front when tied into a network through a C3 slave?

One thing I didn't think about when I brought these two up.  The Schiltron Prime mounts the A4s in the front, the turret is too small for both.  One could fit with the self-defense lasers if you wanted a non-canon config.  So the A4 Demolisher might be slightly better at shoot and scoot, not having to turn to face downrange when it reaches a new firing position before letting fly.  Or if forced to unass the area, it can still provide some firesupport, or add its own A4 in direct fire mode at whatever fast mover got into your backfield.  Without compromising on the 'getting the hell out of Dodge'.  I know the Schiltron Prime technically has more self-defense lasers, but if those four small lasers become relevant, you have bigger issues. :o

Also IIRC C3 bonuses do not apply to artillery.  The Schilitron fits for a command tank if you expect to swap out missile firesupport for artillery depending on the situation.

[Col Toda]

Off board can be a mess friendly fire isn't.  Still 6 tubes due to scatter if it misses target hex completely still has  about 10 percent chance of damaging something on a standard map board .  One technique is to target a hex in which the scatter pattern is advantageous failing to see an obvious one a firing pattern targeting hexes in which the scatter covers different hexes . The only great thing about off board artillery is the phase happens before weapons phase so any knocked out weapon can't be used in weapons phase . On board is far more accurate but is simultaneous with weapons phase . Prefer mech mortar , LRM or SRM for smoke . The only good artillery smoke is anti laser Arrow IV ammo light smoke hexes over a battlefield so the Axe wielding maniacs with auto cannons do not get blown away by Clan Laser fire as they close .  Did that once ever .

As for Infantry field guns rather than Artillary the HVAC  AC rules: particularly if the unit is dug in , in light woods , with a hill behind them so the smoke generated covers their hex not the one behind them . Dug in +2 , light woods +1 , heavy smoke +2 , range upto +4 . So regular gunners have No shot at long range and poor shots at medium range  the unit is normally nearly out of ammo or is out of ammo should it get into short range . If LOS for Direct Fire is there HVAC field guns is a better damage causing tool than artillery.  HVAC 2S MIN RANGE 3 S 10 , M 20 , L 35 That is just more than 2 mapboards direct  fire  , HVAC 5s  S 8 , M 16 , L 28 , and the HVAC/10  6/12/20 .  AN Infantry platoon can handle 3 HVAC/2S AND 2 HVAC/5s or 10s . 30 shots of HVAC/2s  for a ton .  15 for HVAC/5s and 8 for HVAC/10S  . field guns are immune to exploding last I checked . 

[DoganSheridan]

Here is the thing with offboard artillery and scattering. If you set your artillery to deploy offboard in the setup lobby, then you can set pre-planned targets which always hit the hex that is pre-planned. I have used this knowing the direction the enemy is coming and the composition of the force, you can look at the map and get a pretty good idea of what path (avenue of approach) the enemy will take and how long it will take them, so you pre-plan targets along those paths and you have a better chance of hitting something.

[CarcosanDawn]

My mercs are going to be artillery company mercs and homing Arrow IV looks like the way to go

However, fitting it all into 6k BV can be hard
 I want something like 4 launchers with 4 tons of ammo each (2 or 3 tons homing, 1 ton HE, 0-1 ton flex).

How does one fit this in 6k BV *with* TAGgers? Since the TAGger goes up by 30 BV per ton of homing ammo, that's 240 to 360 extra BV (depending on whether each launcher has 2 or 3 tons of homing ammo) EACH TAGGER.

Any thoughts?

Also, maybe my mistake is trying to use a lance of 4 mechs (2 spotters, 2 launchers). Will consider alternative force constructions if I hear a good idea!

[AlphaMirage]

Have you considered a Yellow Jacket, Vali, Regulator, or Chaparral?

At a certain point it doesn't make sense to use Mechs as spotters when you have hovercraft, VTOLs, or Battle Armor. I'd expect an artillery heavy force would actually be relatively light on mechs as you don't need the mobility and firepower combined and can specialize.

[CarcosanDawn]

I would definitely consider those! I suppose I wanted mechs so I can participate in "Mechs Only" games. What would you field as the TAGger for those vics? I will look into force building with them.

EDIT:
So the yellow jacket is a vtol - not played with them yet, loathe to plan a force around a unit type I've not tried.
The Vali is extinct past the star league according to the MUL.
The Regulator is Capellan/Magistracy only (though still an option). It's over 1k BV though, for the same number of launchers it is actually cheaper to field its BV in assault mechs (LGB-8V and OBK-M10 are both cheaper than 2x Regulator (ArrwIV)).
The Chaparral is over 800 BV, meaning that purchasing 2 of them gives me as many launchers as a single LGB-8V or OBK-M10 but also costs about the same... (whilst being less capable in other areas).

[AlphaMirage]

The Zephyr, J Edgar, Beagle, and Crow are all good as are many types of Battle Armor equipped with a Light TAG although the Kage and Achileus are perhaps the best.

If you want some mech spotters I'd go with Raven, Hitman, Scarabus, or Ostscout. If you are allowed customs a TAG is easy enough to sub anywhere you have a small pulse or medium laser.

[truetanker]

Honorable mentions :

Ryuken-yon Armor
GAL-105

The above don't have official BV, but their not just there for good looks, their canon!

TT