Author Topic: MotW: Hermes II  (Read 13674 times)

JadeHellbringer

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MotW: Hermes II
« on: 26 September 2021, 18:16:02 »
(PROGRAMMING NOTE: This was on an old USB drive from 2016 (!!!), mostly finished but never posted. Rather than delete it, I'm tossing it up here after a quick update and image addition. Any errors are best chalked up to incomplete fact-checking prior to posting. Complaints about the author's writing style will be politely ignored.)


The SLDF had a love of the Hermes, a scouting light Mech named for the 'winged' heat sink array in the feet. Fairly simple in role, the design packed a flamer and a couple of medium lasers, and was excellent at raiding and hit-and-fade attacks thanks to its fleet-footed abilities and reasonable punch (which will be covered in a future article). When the SLDF collapsed, remaining Hermes-class Mechs were no doubt quite popular with military forces they ended up in. Apparently, this was especially true of the Free Worlds League, who attempted to create a new version of the Hermes decades after Kerensky left, but... not really... at all. What did they actually make, is it any good, and what ended up happening with it as time went on? Let's explore the Hermes II.

The first thing we notice, putting a Hermes II HER-2S in the gantry for inspection, is that it tips the scales at 40 tons, 33% heavier than its predecessor. The original Hermes HER-1S utilized endo-steel structure and ferro-fibrous armor, and the bump in weight may have been to cover the use of standard materials instead, although that's simply conjecture. The fact is, we have a low-end medium Mech rather than a light, with all the bonuses and problems that come with that. The choice could be made easier to understand if not for other changes that seem to fly in the face of the 'upgrade' idea that the 2S seems to have been intended to be.

That change starts at the engine, where the lightning-fast Hermes concept falls flat. The 9/14 of the Hermes is not just lowered, but absolutely hobbled- at 6/9, a Hermes II can run flat-out at its older sibling's walk speed. The weight gain could, on its head, be seen as a necessary bump to get a bigger engine in to keep performance, but that wasn't the case- we have a much smaller engine here in the larger chassis, and the results are obviously more humble than the original. It's made all the more dismaying by the lack of jump jets, which means a Hermes II can't really outperform Mechs much larger than itself- despite giving up fifteen tons to, say, a Wolverine, the Hermes II has only a negligible speed advantage and can't jump in difficult terrain, and so is at a huge disadvantage overall to the heavier machine. That's... not great. It even gets worked over in movement by the bug-Mechs, and if you're struggling to deal with a Wasp, you've got problems.


Luckily, the Hermes II's bump in size does mean it's a tougher machine- in fact, for 40 tons, it's surprisingly durable. 7.5 tons of armor gives the machine a pretty hefty coat for its size, and means that the kinds of enemies it will usually run into (scout elements and the like) will have trouble dealing with the Hermes II. It's still not going to go toe-to-toe with a Hunchback or anything like that, but scout elements like Spiders and Commandos are likely to be very frustrated by the toughness of Marik's new toy. This is especially noticeable compared, again, to its predecessor, which even for its smaller size wasn't particularly durable.

Where the 1S rolled with the two lasers and flamer combo mentioned earlier, the Hermes II went in a different direction, and here we find a huge change that seems completely out of nowhere compared to the original. The flamer returns (more on that shortly), and one of the lasers as well, but the torso laser is removed in favor of an AC/5 and one ton of ammo. Wut? Wait a minute, WHAT? The Hermes II suddenly has a big, long-range punch that the original can't match. Of course, the other side of that is that while the gun has longer range, it also weighs an ENORMOUS amount for the size of the Mech, does no more damage than the laser would, and puts a bomb in the torso. (Fluff notes that the gun was mounted centerline on the early Mechs, which of course the rules don't allow- it's actually in the right torso, similar to the Marauder) Whether this is a decent upgrade or not is hard to really quantify- with the slower speed, a longer-range punch is handy, but if not for the super-heavy gun the speed might not have had to suffer so much to begin with. It's worth noting that the performance is similar overall to that of the Clint, but for the swap of a laser for the flamer on the Hermes, and the jump capability of the Clint being an enormous upgrade over the relatively-sluggish Marik design. If it doesn't show yet, the author is not a fan of the HER-2S.

Using a 2S is... honestly, it's not a lot of fun. It's a unit designed to work as part of a force rather than alone, as many FWL designs are, and the more of them you deploy the better it works- an AC/5 is a nuisance, but several can add up fast (as any Partisan fan can tell you). As support for heavier units like Hunchbacks and Awesomes, the Hermes II is a modest success, but it doesn't have the speed to really act as heavy support for smaller scouts like bugs and such. As flankers, they're very handy- set up a firing line with heavier units like Orions and Awesomes, move Hermes IIs and their ilk around the sides, and you've got a good recipe going. Jus tdon't plan on these being the be-all, end-all muscle of your force- if you're totally reliant on the Hermes II as your main unit in a game, you're in for a rough day at the table.

As with most of the early-days Mech designs, we have a whole slew of variants, ranging from the Succession Wars era all the way into the Dark Age- some better than others.

The show starts with the HER-2M 'Mercury' (not to be confused with the SLDF scout Mech, obviously), a lunatic upgrade used by SAFE wetwork teams. If you found the 2S underwhelming, you may want to give this a look. MAY. Not WILL. The original Hermes concept feels much closer to reality here, with the speed up to 7/11 (still not AS fast as its cousin, but much better). The autocannon had to be removed as a result, but the replacement is two medium lasers (for a total now of three), along with a pair of machine guns fed by half a ton of ammo. A single heat sink was added as well to help manage the added heat output, which one will note means that a running strike with all three lasers is heat-neutral, a pretty impressive sting for its size- particularly since the speed allows it to rapidly get behind slower opponents. With the flamer and twin MGs, it's also a nasty anti-infantry/crowd control unit, rapidly redeploying to trouble spots to make life miserable. The author, with a well-established love of eliminating infantry, was a big fan of the Mercury.

HER-4K is, inexplicably, a variant used by Kurita (and later, the FRR), and in standard Succession Wars-era Kurita fashion, they took an established design and turned it on its ear, as they did with the Catapult, Shadow Hawk, etc.- except, this is really, really a fun upgrade. The design is not built in the Combine, rather it's made by buying Hermes II chassis from the FWL, which are then modded for DCMS use. The original weaponry all gets tossed in the trash, and in their place come two large lasers. Owch. Two eight-point hits at good ranges? That's the kind of power you usually see from a Mech half-again this size. Of course, a single added heat sink means that firing both will cause you some major, hideous, oh-noes heat problems, so that part sucks. It's 3025, let those heat sinks get a little worn out, will you? Without ammunition on board, at least you won't explode, right? Look, this is a pretty toasty Mech by any standard, but it's a wily little character, and surprisingly fun.


The Helm core provided lostech, and the Clan invasion provided the impetus to cram that lostech on everything possible- and in Marik's case, then turning around and selling those upgraded units to their neighbors to be thrown into the face of the invaders. With the Hermes II being a staple of FWL formations for a couple of centuries, there was no question that it would be a priority to get upgrades, and the result is the HER-5S. Endo-steel internal structure lightened the frame, the laser became a pulse model (a good/bad upgrade, the accuracy offset by the shorter ranges and doubled weight), and the cannon became an Ultra model (with no added ammo, so watch those shots!). Double heat sinks are used, which is weird since at a dead run the old model didn't overheat to begin with, but whatever, take a bath in inferno gel, I guess. It's an improvement in a number of ways, but still pretty underwhelming, and if you thought the Hermes II struggled against its competitors before, try using this thing against Clan units, or even smart upgrades from the neighbors like the newer models of the Phoenix Hawk and Clint.

Interestingly, the 5S was the only official upgrade in the invasion era- one can understand making a simple swap upgrade, then focusing resources on more extravagant changes to better machines like the Trebuchet and Hunchback (for what little THAT was worth). We have to look forward to the beginning of the FedCom Civil War to find the next version, the HER-6D, a version popular with the Davion Guards. Yeah, DAVION. Where the hell did this come from, and why? To the surprise of absolutely nobody, a Davion Mech is built around a RAC-5. Gasp. An ER medium laser backs up the fearsome cannon, which is a solid idea, and it's likely going to be used heavily, because the cannon has a SINGLE TON OF AMMUNITION. For a RAC. You sometimes wonder how Davion ever wins a war with this kind of thing in their arsenal. The author suggests never, EVER using this garbage, and if you get it off a RAT, it's worth quietly re-rolling and getting something else. The GM will understand.

Debuting at roughly the same time, the Marik-flavored forces of the Word of Blake used the HER-5C. Endo-steel and an XL engine are used to drastically drop weight, and the weapons are totally swapped for... oh wow. An ER large laser is a solid start, giving better range and damage than the autocannon did- and with the double-strength heat sinks, the sole drawback to the laser is negated. Great start. Three ER medium lasers make for an excellent battery when the fight gets a little closer, switching to them in place of the big gun. Off to a great start here. A C3i system allows this nasty customer to tie into a network, making a solid contributor to your army even better than it is alone. Finally, an iNarc launcher (fed by three tons of ammo) allows the Hermes II to contribute all kinds of dirty tricks for its side- the author is a big fan of Haywire pods in particular. It feels like a WoB answer to the Tessen, arguably better than that design, and if you're going to build a Blakist force in this era, this is a great Mech to consider all the way through the Jihad era.

As we get into the Jihad era, we see a new version pop up on Andurien. Intended for use by the Legionary Training Academy, not as a frontline unit, the HER-5SA sure looks like it would work well in a combat role. An endo-steel internal structure is here, as is an XL engine on this 'training machine', which you'll note the frontline Hermes II of the era (the 5S) does NOT have. The medium pulse laser is gone, in favor of a large pulse laser- an iffy weapon, but reasonably useful. The Ultra/5 remains, and a half-ton of armor is tacked on as well. Quite the 'training machine'. Rumors of favoritism by the Captain-General to grant such equipment to the academy are, of course, open to debate.

Who wants another Jihad variant? A field upgrade to the venerable 5S, the 5Sr stuffs an XL Gyro into the Hermes II, strips the old autocannon, and installs a heavy PPC. This is golden- that weapon swap means the main gun does an immense amount of damage, with ranges that aren't totally off from the cannon. Those weird double-heat sinks on the 5S? They sure get used now. There's no reason to use a 5S if you can get it upgraded to a 5Sr. This is a hidden gem- still not as mobile as one would like, particularly in an Inner Sphere full of far faster mediums and even fast heavies, but it's a solid contributor to your forces.

Another Jihad variant, and one that actually works rather well, is the HER-5ME. Used exclusively by the Dark Shadows, this is said to be a follow-on to the 'Mercury' variant above, but has exactly nothing in common with that war-crime design. Losing all of the weapons, as well as a couple of tons of armor (oh?), we're now fighting at extreme ranges courtesy of a light Gauss rifle. The weapon means fighting at extreme ranges that even LRMs struggle to respond at, so losing that armor isn't as huge of an issue as it could be. Two tons of ammo allow it to remain in the field for an eternity. It's like most LGR-boats, incapable of doing a lot of damage on its own, but able to strip half a ton of armor from a target at ranges they can't reply at- so while one is an irritation, a few can be a major problem. Why that would be in the hands of specops forces, or what it has to do with the anti-infantry nightmare of its 'predecessor', is beyond the author's comprehension.

It remains to be mentioned that there is one last version to discuss. The result of bilking a dimwitted duke of his fortune, the HER-7S is an experimental version that likely never was intended to be more than a curiosity (and thus, only three were built). It's... tricked out. An absurd XXL engine (!!!) gives the Mech a ground speed of 8/12, faster than any other version. That's augmented by the jump jets (finally, a jumping Hermes II!), giving an eight-hex jump to the beast. A composite structure is used to support the new weapon loadout, which looks... remarkably... are those CLAN guns? And not just Clan, but top-tech Clan! An ER flamer! And a large pulse laser! A light PPC looks positively crude here! And a Clan targeting computer! And all it costs is more than a company of normal Mechs! What a steal! Look, if you have one in your possession for some reason or other, enjoy it, but no one- even elite FWL forces- are going to ever get their hands on something like this in-general.

So... it's a little bland usually, it's not very quick in-general, it's a little underwhelming in the weapon department... but it's a staple for the League, much the way the Enforcer is for the FedSuns or the Vindicato in the Confederation. Ignore them at your peril, use them... well, also at your peril.

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Maingunnery

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #1 on: 26 September 2021, 18:55:58 »
So... it's a little bland usually
Correction, it is so bland (looks & performance) that it is actually ugly.
And I guess that I am not the only one with that opinion as I have never actually seen a real life miniature of it.
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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #2 on: 26 September 2021, 19:09:04 »
Correction, it is so bland (looks & performance) that it is actually ugly.
And I guess that I am not the only one with that opinion as I have never actually seen a real life miniature of it.

I own two, one in alpine camo, the other in bronze/orange. It's... forgettable. Don't bother unless, like mine, it comes with other miniatures anyway.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #3 on: 26 September 2021, 20:06:33 »

You know a design is in trouble when a Clint is probably a better mech.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #4 on: 26 September 2021, 20:14:30 »
I enjoy less than perfect designs.  The Hermes II is one of the few notable 40 tonners out there, the most prominent I think.  Assassin and the Whitworth save same tonnage.

I didn't know the HER-4K was also called the Hermes III.

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #5 on: 26 September 2021, 21:42:22 »
You know a design is in trouble when a Clint is probably a better mech.

In the interests of being fair, I'll die on the '3050 Clint is a fantastic Battlemech' hill. I absolutely love that thing- it's not perfect, but it's one of the, if not absolutely the, best upgrades in that entire book. The Hermes II's upgrade is a pale comparison.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #6 on: 26 September 2021, 22:30:14 »
The Hermes II suffers from the Free Worlds Leagues curse of being best suited for formations rather than duels. The combination of an AC/5 for range and a Flamer for anti-infantry makes the 2S a handy twelfth member for any medium company, but its rare to see battles that large on the tabletop. The variants are almost always good, and only on the 'Mercury' do they abandon the main gun concept for a generic short range setup. It does a fine job of capturing the essence of "mass produced default 'mech", and for that it gets forgotten. Its a shame that the Hermes II suffers for being to good at being a basic trooper.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #7 on: 26 September 2021, 22:46:27 »
As a Marik fanboy, I will proudly admit to not only owning a Hermes II but having actually run them in games.

The HER-2S is a funny boy.  It's got scout speed and striker armor, and its primary weapon has a longer range than most 'Mechs its weight or smaller; this makes it a scout-hunter in my book.  It certainly shouldn't be standing in the line of battle, but even two-on-one it can tackle Wasps and Stingers no problem.  Like most Marik 'Mechs, don't duel with this thing against anything it's weight class; it can win against other "flagship" mediums like the Vindicator or Enforcer, but it'll be a slow game.  You have to keep your speed up and the range open and chip away with that Oriente Model O before closing in for the kill.  Something like a Phoenix Hawk or Griffin though is a terrible mismatch.

The HER-4K is kind of dream machine of mine.  Yes, it runs hot, but it's pre-Helm Core tech so of course it does.  I haven't actually played with one, though -- if I ever get around to building a 2nd Kavelleri unit, I'll fit a couple of these in there for sure.

The HER-2M is my absolute favorite way to run the Hermes II.  I was playing one in a combined-arms campaign once and my regular opponents nicknamed it "The Walking War Crime" for its ability to just about delete an entire platoon of infantry in one shooting phase.  If you're in an infantry-heavy environment, it pairs nicely with a VL-5T Vulcan.  That's a lot of medium lasers and a lot of dead grunts.

The HER-5S is. . . yeah, underwhelming is probably the best descriptor here.  The problem is that the designers could really only work with what they had available.  An LB-5X would have been better served, but it wasn't available -- just the Ultra-5.  The ERML would have been preferred, but it wasn't available -- just the MPL.  I can appreciate retaining durability by avoiding the XL engine, but the standard --> endo-steel swap just didn't free up enough mass for meaningful changes to the warload.  It's not terrible for what it is -- a durable if unexceptional heavy scout -- and the FWLM is lucky that it never had to match its fleet of Hermes IIs against the likes of Ullers or Dragonflys.  Against the League's traditional opponents, it's not actually that bad a match-up so long as you don't jam the autocannon.  If there's one good thing to say about the underwhelming nature of the HER-5S, it's that a lot of them ended up in WoB hands due to FWLM defections during the Jihad.  They're certainly easier to fight than some of the other quality medium 'Mechs produced during that era.  One additional note -- once specialty autocannon ammunition becomes available, I think I might prefer a HER-2S over a -5S.  Ultra is nice and all, but precision ammo is by no means a bad thing.

As for the League's Jihad-era variants, I never tried any of them.  I firmly believe that the LGR is a tank gun as opposed to a 'Mech gun, so the HER-5ME is for me a waste of resources.  I suppose it's speedy enough to hit situation-appropriate range bands, but I prefer the Ontos or Main Gauche for carrying these.  The HER-5Sa used by Andurien is one I've always wanted to try though.  The IS LPL gets a really bad rap around here, and I'm not saying that it's totally undeserved, but I happen to like them. . . which is good because the League was throwing them on everything (seriously!  Ostsol, Anvil, Perseus, Albatross, Grand Titan and more besides!).

I really do feel like the Hermes II is one of those League designs that always just screamed "team player."  The flamer gives it decent anti-infantry capability, and serves double-duty for "shaping operations" (i.e., setting fires to herd enemies and create smoke).  The AC/5 is probably one of my least favorite guns in the game but since this isn't a duelist I can forgive that.  Play it like a SHD-2H at the beginning of a game -- stay mobile, plink, support your lancemates, get close for the coup de grace.


As for the tone of the article, I totally get that the Hermes II can be a bit of let-down but I think there's a bit of misunderstanding about the lore.  The Hermes II might have been a successor of the Hermes, but I don't think it was ever intended as a replacement -- League factories were producing plenty of Spiders and Locusts to fill the "fast recon 'Mech" niche.  I don't have my TROs handy so I may certainly be totally off-base -- and JHB, please feel free to correct me if so -- but the HER-2S feels like it was deliberately designed as a heavy scout/scout-hunter instead of a pure reconnaissance platform like the much-faster HER-1X series.  I do recall the TRO mentioning that Hermes IIs were often deployed solo as pathfinders or partisans since they were tough enough to fight recon 'Mechs and live, fast enough to outrun heavies sent to kill them, and had that wonderful satellite-capable comm gear for transmitting intelligence to friendly forces.  I'd love to try a scenario where it's one or two HER-2S's against successively-harder waves of enemies just to see what kind of shenanigans can be pulled while displacing and withdrawing.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #8 on: 26 September 2021, 22:50:06 »
You know a design is in trouble when a Clint is probably a better mech.
In the interests of being fair, I'll die on the '3050 Clint is a fantastic Battlemech' hill. I absolutely love that thing- it's not perfect, but it's one of the, if not absolutely the, best upgrades in that entire book. The Hermes II's upgrade is a pale comparison.
given the Clint was completely out of production and getting rare when the Hermes II was designed, i wonder if in universe what happened was the Hermes replacement program got hijacked by a Clint replacement program.. (or at least, the people making the specs to meet trying to force it into a clint sized hole..)
« Last Edit: 26 September 2021, 22:53:16 by glitterboy2098 »

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #9 on: 26 September 2021, 22:51:53 »
TRO 3025's entries in 40 ton weight class seems to be remarkably...imperfect as a whole. When your contemporaries are the Clint, Whitworth, Vulcan, Assassin, and Cicada...
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #10 on: 27 September 2021, 00:12:35 »
As The Eagle says, to me the base -2S is a scout hunter. It doesn't have the speed to catch another scout mech, but it doesn't need to-it just needs to keep it in range for the autocannon. A lot of intro-tech light mechs have medium laser/SRM fighting ranges, which means the Hermes has twice the short range, and it can manage medium range shots when the other mech cannot respond at all. A light mech can usually outrun a Hermes II quite easily, but that's not the while game-it needs to open the distance FAST, and get out of that rather large bubble of map where the Hermes compensates for being unable to counter a TMM by not having to worry about a range modifier.

Like many 3050 machines, the -5S does the exact same thing as its predecessor, but better. The Ultra-5 does the same job as the AC, but with even more delicious delicious range, and doing more damage means its prey needs to get out of range even faster. The pulse laser covers the minimums in exactly the same way as the old ML, but hits harder and with more accuracy up close. And those heat sinks make me want to use the flamer to light entire mapsheets on fire and then proceed to completely fail to care about it.

This would be a magnificent scout hunter in the post-Invasion world, except that the proliferation of XL technology meant that we almost immediately see entire generations of light mechs that DO have the speed to clear the cannon's range within a turn or two, and carry a dangerous warload while they're at it. One assumes that Hermes pilots shipping out to hit their GUERRERO targets were praying to merely encounter updated Commandos and Valkyries, and that all the available Darts, Fireballs, and I've decided that more than one Scarabus is called a Scaramouche are all on the Clan front.

Why nobody at this point decided roll out an upgrade to the Hermercury is beyond me. My only guess it's that they decided to focus all their fast 40-tonner attention on the various Cicada models, and let's admit it, there's some serious win in that family tree.

It looks like the refit -5Sr was an attempt to turn all those Hermes into strike units, and in this they struck pure gold. While older Hermes IIs were useful for guarding the flank of a larger force, the threat posed by even a couple -5Srs means opponents now have to make flank security one of their top priorities.

Sometimes, I wonder if the -5Sr and the -5ME should have been swapped. Special forces mech operations always seemed to me about getting heavy firepower where it's least expected so they can quickly overpower a target and then get the hell out before reinforcements can be called in. That's almost begging for the -5Sr, which also retains the backup weapons for when things go south, especially the flamer. The -5ME isn't gonna kill anything fast, but even in the current era of faster scouts, it can very well continue the family business of beating light mechs to death using enormous range brackets.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #11 on: 27 September 2021, 00:20:19 »
I own two, 
Ditto.
I'm not sure why.
I'm not a Marik player.
I don't care for the mech.
All I can say is it was purchased in my highschool era days of playing & at the time I had a thing for pairs of the same chassis so maybe this was the only mechs the store had 2 copies of.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #12 on: 27 September 2021, 00:23:12 »
The HER-2M is my absolute favorite way to run the Hermes II.  I was playing one in a combined-arms campaign once and my regular opponents nicknamed it "The Walking War Crime" for its ability to just about delete an entire platoon of infantry in one shooting phase.  If you're in an infantry-heavy environment, it pairs nicely with a VL-5T Vulcan.  That's a lot of medium lasers and a lot of dead grunts.

This is actually how I field them, the above mentioned double purchase was also with a pair of Vulcans.

4 Flamers, 14 Medium Lasers,  6 MGs...........   Its a close range Murder Lance.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #13 on: 27 September 2021, 00:26:49 »
It looks like the refit -5Sr was an attempt to turn all those Hermes into strike units, and in this they struck pure gold. While older Hermes IIs were useful for guarding the flank of a larger force, the threat posed by even a couple -5Srs means opponents now have to make flank security one of their top priorities.

My only real problem with this is what was the point of the XL Gyro?
If they had left it normal this could have been a Field Grade simple weapon swap and it would be my favorite variant hands down.
Instead the XL Gyro means it has to be done at a Factory which defeats the "r" tag which were supposed to be refits.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #14 on: 27 September 2021, 00:29:40 »
The Heavy PPC probably isn't possible otherwise.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #15 on: 27 September 2021, 00:31:06 »
The 2M is easily my favorite variant.

The 5S really needed a "Scout" variant that used ERPPC, BAP, & ECM sort of like what they did to the ShadowHawk-5M.

The 6D isn't horrible if your not playing a long fight.
Keep it to triple taps with the RAC & you've got enough for 6 bursts & a couple singles.
The fluff for it is odd being a Davion mech, Maybe they had some salvaged from 3057 invasion & wanted to play around with cheap test beds?
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #16 on: 27 September 2021, 00:32:20 »
The Heavy PPC probably isn't possible otherwise.
10 ton HPPC.
9 ton UA5 w/ 1 ton Ammo

It would have been so nice.  :'(
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #17 on: 27 September 2021, 00:34:09 »
I don't have the sheets in front of me. What is the XL's freed mass used for?
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #18 on: 27 September 2021, 05:57:16 »

The fluff for it is odd being a Davion mech, Maybe they had some salvaged from 3057 invasion & wanted to play around with cheap test beds?

I always assumed they were upgrades to units that were exported to the AFFC under the Outreach Accords.  I mean, why would Tommy sell the newfangled stuff from TRO:3055 when he could sell them Succession Wars-era buckets with a fresh coat of paint?
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #19 on: 27 September 2021, 07:01:48 »
Thanks for posting the article!

I like how the Hermes II looks. Also, it is quintessential FWL 'Mech as i see it, if i ever make a FWL force, i'll want one or two in it. I tossed my Hermes II plastic to my Alliance Guards, needed a 6/9 'Mech to fill out a lance, and the -5S happened to be available to the Lyrans.

A bit mixed feelings on the design itself. The AC/5 is OK in introtech context on some 'Mechs but here it is dubious. That said, it does have decent range against others with similar size or less, and lesser 'Mechs may find the Hermes II's armor problematic. Too bad most specialty ammo happens so late in timeline, during Succession Wars having flechette ammo as an option to place the Hermes II in pure support role would be golden.

The -5S is weird. Strictly speaking, it is a straight upgrade. More firepower, better cooling. It somehow manages to feel kinda bad, but that is a result of fundamentally weird decisions made in the original.
I'll note that the medium pulse laser is generally speaking positive upgrade. Yes, you lose range, but regular or green pilots will find it difficult to fight at long range bracket of medium lasers, so this loss isn't big. Better damage and advantages at certain ranges more than make up for this. Figure one would have better pilots in better machines anyhow.
Same argument for the LPL of the -5SA. LPL is good for lesser pilots compared to standard large laser. LPL's issue is the existence of PPCs, ERPPCs, Snub-nose PPCs and ERLLs, all of which are generally better weapons for the 5-7 ton mass.
The -5SA's issue is its expense. XL engines are good when they add something to a design, here it doesn't. Not worth the time nor money, though i guess Irian loves to seel these.
The -5Sr is a good upgrade but i find it a bit bland. The FWL really liked sticking HPPCs to anything that could be improved with one. Can't fault them, but seen enough of it.

Hadn't really paid attention to the -5C before. Kinda neat. I like Narcs in general, so having iNarc is nice. Too bad there's no C3/Guardian conversion for post-Jihad world. I do have some ideas for a WoB force, and i think i'd like a Hermes II -5C in that.

I don't have the sheets in front of me. What is the XL's freed mass used for?
For a Guardian ECM. For some reason.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #20 on: 27 September 2021, 09:54:12 »
Did the FWLM deploy these in lances or companies the way the SLDF did for their 'Mechs? That would be a pain to deal with.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #21 on: 27 September 2021, 10:24:37 »
For a Guardian ECM. For some reason.

YES. That is a magnificent idea for a striker, as it can be used to prevent a target from calling for help(reinforcing my opinion that THIS model should be the one used by the Eagle Corps versus the -5ME), and can also make the mech a harder target during the exfiltration.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #22 on: 27 September 2021, 11:23:01 »
Agreed, ECM is certainly nice.

Its using the XL Gyro to get it that annoys me.

As I mentioned upthread, way back when 3050 was new, the Hermes-II was screaming for a scout variant with some sort of swap for ERPPC/ERLL & ECM/BAP/TAG/NARC/C3/AMS package

Maybe an ERPPC+ECM+BAP initial package and then a couple of 3060 packages to upgrade from that that swap the MPL for ERML/TAG & ERML/C3S

Its just that XL Gyro on a field refit that kills me for the 5Sr.   IIRC the Rifleman did the same thing with the 3Cr.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #23 on: 27 September 2021, 11:39:31 »
Its just that XL Gyro on a field refit that kills me for the 5Sr.   IIRC the Rifleman did the same thing with the 3Cr.
Fortunately, with a refit kit, that is just class... C refit, if i recall correctly the updated refit rules, so it can be done in a mobile field base or such. Otherwise gyros are factory stuff.

The ECM could've been added by using ferro-fibrous armor and swapping the MPL for an ERML  ::)

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #24 on: 27 September 2021, 11:44:56 »
Fortunately, with a refit kit, that is just class... C refit, if i recall correctly the updated refit rules, so it can be done in a mobile field base or such. Otherwise gyros are factory stuff.

The ECM could've been added by using ferro-fibrous armor and swapping the MPL for an ERML  ::)

Hmm, for some reason I was thinking that applied to changing the size of the Gyro, not the type.
Sweet, if that is the case then I don't feel so bad anymore, lol.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #25 on: 27 September 2021, 12:36:10 »
Hmm, for some reason I was thinking that applied to changing the size of the Gyro, not the type.
Sweet, if that is the case then I don't feel so bad anymore, lol.
I believe the rule covered all gyro changes.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #26 on: 01 October 2021, 22:50:54 »
I've started a design thread featuring a more Hermes-like Hermes II.

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/battlemechs/a-more-hermes-like-hermes-ii/

cheers,

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #27 on: 01 October 2021, 23:47:37 »
As 40 ton mechs go, I can honestly say that the Hermes II is one of them.
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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #28 on: 02 October 2021, 22:10:28 »
The 5Sr was one of my submissions for the BattleCorps design contest that let BC members submit designs for the Old is the New New section of TRO3085. Of the designs I submitted the Hermes and Falconer were among the designs selected. There were specific rules about the number and type of modifications your design could include, but I don't recall the specifics.

As pointed out above the UAC5+ammo swap for an HPPPC seemed obvious on a design so oversinked. I included the ECM as a way to get it broadly deployed to the FWLM (with a Hermes in almost every company), who was facing a proliferation of advanced electronics in the CC and WoB. The XL gyro was an acceptable sacrifice to me, as in my experience a 40 ton mech that is taking internal CT damage and rolling crits won't last long and so the PSR problems won't last long either.

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Re: MotW: Hermes II
« Reply #29 on: 02 October 2021, 22:22:34 »
The 5Sr was one of my submissions for the BattleCorps design contest that let BC members submit designs for the Old is the New New section of TRO3085. Of the designs I submitted the Hermes and Falconer were among the designs selected. There were specific rules about the number and type of modifications your design could include, but I don't recall the specifics.

As pointed out above the UAC5+ammo swap for an HPPPC seemed obvious on a design so oversinked. I included the ECM as a way to get it broadly deployed to the FWLM (with a Hermes in almost every company), who was facing a proliferation of advanced electronics in the CC and WoB. The XL gyro was an acceptable sacrifice to me, as in my experience a 40 ton mech that is taking internal CT damage and rolling crits won't last long and so the PSR problems won't last long either.

#1  Gratz on getting them selected!

#2  The only issue I had with the XL Gyro was the refit grade, which at the time, I believe made it a Factory Upgrade.
Now that the SO Errata makes that a Maintenance level refit, I see no issues & its quite pleasing.
The increased XL vulnerability was never really much of an issue to me since you removed ammo at the same time, so a solid trade off.
It still packs a SFE in it so as stated by the time its an issue its either "Luck" of a TAC which you can't avoid, or, your about to loose the entire mech anyway.
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