Tell me about...the Merkava IX

[Alan Grant]

I have been looking at FWL armor forces more and more and the lack of a great many "main battle tank" designs has been bugging me quite a bit. That path of thought and investigation led me to the Merkava Mark IX. I'm intrigued, it fits the profile of a MBT. It doesn't take advantage of all the heat sinks in the engine, but the LGR/LRM combo is very Marik.

What do you all think of the Merkava Mark IX? How does it stack up to other tanks of the same role and weight from other Great Houses?

[Weirdo]

A bit underarmored for an MBT, but the range does make up for it. You can't really drive this like a Gauss Rommel or a Manticore, relyign on heavy armor to carry you into effective weapons range and through the fight. Fortunately, that LGR means you don't have to worry about range, and being one of the few MBTs to carry a sizeable LRM rack is also handy. You don't have sheer armor penetration, but you can generate a fair number of hit clusters and hope for motive hits. If you can slow them down, you can back off further and finish the fight with the Light Gauss. Also, indirect fire means that Merkavas can always support each other, even if a platoon gets split up during a battle. While I wouldn't advise getting into close range with another heavy tank, that Streak rack does make an excellent backup weapon for when someone does close, be they tank or battlesuit.

I plan to run them alongside HPPC Manticores, rolling a few hexes behind the smaller(but more powerful) tanks. Ideally, a couple Tufanas would also be handy to bring along, to spot for all of the battle tanks.

[Colt Ward]

I brought up Merkavas a little while ago in the Ground Combat thread.  I look forward to seeing a Mk X in the Dark Ages which has HFF and a MML rack instead of the split missiles.  With that said, I pretty much agree with Weirdo- drive them up on a hill with the glacis facing the enemy's axis of advance and snipe away with the LGR.  I would say the previous Marik armor corp mainly had the mech as the MBT and the armor as support, look at the Hunter, Harasser, Galleon and Onto (LGR) as your examples.  Marik armor doctrine, by designs, is very different than Davion or Steiner.

If your really looking for improved League armor, then Andurien is your proto-state!  Look at the Moltke series.

[Moonsword]

I hate to burst your bubble but the Regulans aren't using HPPC Manticores in significant numbers, although with their trade relations with the Lyrans, they can probably manage to get a handful.  They're definitely importing the Rommel (Gauss), though.  Also Moltkes from the Andruiens.

You can also use the Merkava IX alongside Regulan heavy 'Mechs, or even to provide militia formations full of Sarissas with some longer-ranged fire support although for that role you might want to use the remaining Main Gauches and reserve the tanks for the regulars.

[Weirdo]

I hate to burst your bubble but the Regulans aren't using HPPC Manticores in significant numbers, although with their trade relations with the Lyrans, they can probably manage to get a handful.  They're definitely importing the Rommel (Gauss), though.  Also Moltkes from the Andruiens.

Hmm. I'll have to find another use for some of my Manties, then. Maybe stick a couple older models into a Marian MBT Century...

You can also use the Merkava IX alongside Regulan heavy 'Mechs, or even to provide militia formations full of Sarissas with some longer-ranged fire support although for that role you might want to use the remaining Main Gauches and reserve the tanks for the regulars.

Oh hey, that could be fun. Merkavas in the back, Sarissas in the middle, and Main Gauche IFVs packed full of BA and Gurkhas in the lead! >:D

[Moonsword]

The Regulans are still using the old PPC-armed variant and are importing some of the Lyrans' 3055 models, although I'm personally not that impressed with the LPL Manticore.

If you're feeling mean, slip a MAD-9M2 into that formation.

[Weirdo]

Oh hey, that could make a good training cadre force. Cadets in Sarissas and older Manties, tank instructors in Merkavas, and the commandant in a Marauder...this could be interesting...

[Alan Grant]

What would you pair a Merkava IX up with to offset its weaknesses?

[Weirdo]

You need something that can draw fire away from the Merkavas, tough enough to take that fire, and threatening enough to draw it. A good short-range punch would be adivsable, in order to cover the Merkava's minimum ranges. Honestly, my best bet would be the Moltke, the really nice M3 model with the autocannons and plasma. It can close ahead of the Merkavas and is way too powerful to be ignored. Plus, the TAG lets you get even more use out of the Merkie's LRM rack.

[Moonsword]

I'd look seriously at a MAD-9M2 in the combined arms role, or even a MAD-9M.  The 9M doesn't have the 9M2's blind spot at short range and can blast in two of the ERLLs and two of the Streaks at short range while remaining heat neutral.  You can probably rely on the Streaks missing to cover movement heat, too.

[Weirdo]

Yeah, definitely a good idea. Similar movement profiles, and the Marauder certainly has the armor and guns to mix things up close while the Merkavas hang back. It even has a TAG so the tanks can load S-G rounds. Either of the non-Arrow Patriots would probably also do the trick.

[cold1]

Why not one of the Mad 9M(2) and the Arrow version of the Patriot?  Combined with Moltkes,Merkavas, and Main Gauche

Rain death from afar.  Anything gets through heavy PPCs a plenty to end their day.

[Weirdo]

Either way...it's a good day to be a Regulan. 8)

[Colt Ward]

Hmm, ideal Regulan heavy armor lance . . . M1, M3 and two Mk IX . . . Moltkes up front, Merkavas behind for overwatch . . . who do you shoot at first?

[Weirdo]

Sadly, Andurien isn't exporting the M3, so Regulus either has to salvage some, or make do with M1s and M2s. I'd swap it out for a Gauss Rommel., or an oldtech Manticore.

[Colt Ward]

Well, I think its they are not exporting it at . . . what, 3080?  3085?  By 3090 or '95 it could be happening . . .

IIRC, I think the turrets would also be interchangeable . . . same weights, right?

[Moonsword]

Well, I think its they are not exporting it at . . . what, 3080?  3085?  By 3090 or '95 it could be happening . . .

It's not.

IIRC, I think the turrets would also be interchangeable . . . same weights, right?

That's not the whole problem.  You have a different set of ammo bins, a different arrangement of weapons to supply with them than either the M2 or M3, and TAG up front.  Just because the turret mechanisms will physically mate (assuming they will) doesn't mean this is simple.  It's a 75 ton fusion-powered main battle tank, not a Mr. Potato Head.

For that matter, where are you getting the turret?  It's not like Brooks is going to sell it to anyone they're not authorized to export M3s to (which is no one).

Yes, this is doable under the customization rules.  It's not even the hardest thing you could be doing.  But that doesn't mean it's worth it from a military's perspective, nor does it mean you get to go the easy refit kit route.

In any case, can we get back to the Merkava now?

[gyedid]

I brought up Merkavas a little while ago in the Ground Combat thread.  I look forward to seeing a Mk X in the Dark Ages which has HFF and a MML rack instead of the split missiles.  With that said, I pretty much agree with Weirdo- drive them up on a hill with the glacis facing the enemy's axis of advance and snipe away with the LGR.  I would say the previous Marik armor corp mainly had the mech as the MBT and the armor as support, look at the Hunter, Harasser, Galleon and Onto (LGR) as your examples.  Marik armor doctrine, by designs, is very different than Davion or Steiner.

If your really looking for improved League armor, then Andurien is your proto-state!  Look at the Moltke series.

That's what got me about the old Ontos, and even the 3058 upgrade.  The LGR Ontos makes sense as a support tank, but the original and 3058 version are really odd ducks to me.  They have the armament of brawlers, but the speed and armour are appropriate for support roles.  It's really not clear to me how to use them effectively, because while they can dish out quite a bit of punishment at close range, they really can't weather a lot of return fire.

Now regarding the Merkava IX...this one has a LFE, right?  That makes it a mite bit pricey for something that's best suited to a support role, wants to be a MBT, but isn't quite there. 

cheers,

Gabe

[Colt Ward]

Which is why I really think its begs for a FF/HFF & MML upgrade, 10 tons of HFF is a pretty good amount of protection though a bit lighter than the Moltke.

[gyedid]

Which is why I really think its begs for a FF/HFF & MML upgrade, 10 tons of HFF is a pretty good amount of protection though a bit lighter than the Moltke.

The thing about the Mk. VIII is that the fusion engine, IMO, was there primarily to buy speed for the tank.  An ICE would've been cheaper, sure, but then the tank would be stuck trundling along at 3/5, no better than its predecessors.  There's that, and the fact that the 10 tons of standard combat armour were already a huge improvement over the primitive version's 81(!) points of lower BAR plate.  Putting a PPC on it to really make the fusion engine worthwhile was certainly not beyond the Terran Hegemony's technological reach, but remember, it's fluffed as the predecessor to the Manticore, so OOC, it was fated to suck somehow.  (Much the same way the Baron, Carson, and Naga destroyers had to make the Essex look good.)

And it's not like the Mk IX's LGR isn't an all-around win over an AC/5 ;) (except shots/ton and minimum range).  There's a lot about the Merkava IX that makes it the closest approximation in BT of a real-world MBT, but you're right, it needs more protection to take that extra step.

I thought about the cost issue...it's what the Regulans can actually produce, so they have little choice but to buy it, and their imports are going to be marked up by transportation costs, right?

ASIDE:  If you're really willing to break the bank on a tank...is there any way to get a 375 XL engine in there, to bring the speed up to heavy cav levels?  (Though you would have to go back to using the AC/5)

cheers,

Gabe

[Moonsword]

I'm looking at getting a Merkava article out the door for either next Monday or the week after that.

The thing about the Mk. VIII is that the fusion engine, IMO, was there primarily to buy speed for the tank.  An ICE would've been cheaper, sure, but then the tank would be stuck trundling along at 3/5, no better than its predecessors.

The Mk. VII already had a fusion engine to save tonnage thanks to improvements in reactor maintenance capabilities.  Going to an ICE would have been a downgrade to Hegemony thinking.

Putting a PPC on it to really make the fusion engine worthwhile was certainly not beyond the Terran Hegemony's technological reach, but remember, it's fluffed as the predecessor to the Manticore, so OOC, it was fated to suck somehow.

The Manticore isn't even mentioned in the article.  Given the timing of Leopard Armor's decision to cease production, about 25 years after the Manticore's introduction, the newer, smaller design's performance may have had a role in their opinion that it was getting too long in the tooth to be worth trying to modify, however.

[Alan Grant]

I've long thought of the Light Gauss Rifle as a substitute for the AC-10 (considering they weigh the same). You trade off a little damage for longer range. Most mech drivers don't like that trade-off, but in a vehicle I feel like it makes more sense. Vehicles often have some mobility issues. That ability to stand-off and fight at very long ranges has some benefits if used correctly. Facing something like a AC-20 packing Rommel, that is how a Merkava would win, by exploiting the range of its weapons.

[gyedid]

Why not an ER large laser as the main gun on a Merkava?  True, it has less range than the LGR, but does the same damage, is ammo-independent has no minimum range issues, and actually makes the fusion engine worthwhile, while still leaving the tank feeling undergunned compared to a Manticore.  You'll need to add 2 heat sinks, but that still leaves, what, 5 tons to play with?

cheers,

Gabe

[Jim1701]

A fusion engine is ALWAYS worth while on a heavy tank simply for the weight savings.  Being able to add 1-2 energy weapons is just bonus.