BTAU question: what 3050s to 3070s tech could be plausibly made in the SW-era?

[Izzy193]

Now Helmtech aside, I was wondering what kind of Inner Sphere tech from the 3050s to 3070s could be historically plausibly made within the SW-era. As such I wanted to collab with fellow BT fans on the forum here to come up with a list of IS tech the could have been plausibly made in the 3030s to 3040s era that appeared within the mid-late 3050s to 3070s eras.


What Energy weapons could be made the appeared later on in the timeline?

What ballistic weapons could have been made the appeared later on in the timeline?

What Missile weapons could have been made that appeared later on in the timeline?

What other equipment could have been made that appeared later on in the timeline?

Keeping mind the pre-requisite tech needed to be already existing or could plausibly be made during the 3030s to 3040s eras. that is the only rule here apart from No Clantech.

[AlphaMirage]

I'd say the Light Autocannons, Heavy PPC, and Extended or Enhanced LRMs could work in the SW era. They're pretty heavy and underwhelming in the later era but they'd work fine for the SW era.

[Lagrange]

Looking for tech level D or lower and not introduced in 3030 with IS tech, I see:

TL B: LMG, HMG, A-Pod, RL, Sword, Claws, Flail, Mace, Mech Mortars, Improved One-shot launchers

TL C: MRM, Chain Whip, Lance, Spikes, Chaff Pod, Heavy Flamer, M-pod

TL D: LAC/2, LAC/5, Hardened armor, Modular armor, HVAC(but it's terrible), Shields, Vibroblades, Coolant Pod, ER Flamer, Handheld Weapon, Torso Cockpit, Apollo FCS, MML

edit: tweaked per DevianID below.

[Speedbump]

So, my lists would be:

Ballistics:
Light ACs
Light Machine Guns
Heavy Machine Guns
Machine Gun Arrays

Ballistics Maybes:
High Velocity ACs (these are terrible even in the depths of the lostech era, but they fit better in 3010 than 3060)
Other LBX-ACs and Ultra ACs (The Fed Suns reintroduce the Star League models 3035 and don't produce any others until seeing Clan examples. But if you're doing an AU it's easy enough to say that the LB 5-X AC was built in the Star League as well if you want to. Either way it's only a late 3030s into 3040s thing)

Energy:
Bombast Lasers

Energy Maybes:
Pulse Lasers (Yes, these are lostech canonically and already get recovered in the 3030s, but standard IS Pulse Lasers work perfectly well with the introtect techbase, if anything the MPL is better balanced against SRMs than the standard ML. IMO you can have these never go extinct without any issues)
Heavy PPCs (A very strong weapon even in a era of single heat sinks. Two Heavy PPCs are lighter than three standard PPCs and concentrate the damage for the same heat. On the other hand the concept of "it's a bigger PPC" is so simple that you can easily justify it's inclusion)
Light PPCs (Two Light PPCs are lighter than one standard PPC, but this is more of a trade off as you're sacrificing damage concentration rather than gaining it. Easily justified but arguably power creep)

Missiles:
Enhanced LRMs
Extended LRMs
MRMs
Rocket Launchers (non-prototype)
Mech Mortars

Missile Maybes:
MMLs (These were explicitly invented by a mercenary unit so the idea that someone could put them together earlier is very plausible, but they do step on the toes of standard SRMs a bit)
Thunderbolts (The concept of "one big missile" is obvious, but Thunderbolt 15s and 20s are very strong compared to the 3025 roster of head capping weapons, especially when AMS is lostech)

Physical:
Basically everything except Vibroblades

Physical Maybes:
Vibroblades (Not out of place balance wise, but maybe little out of place aesthetically)

Other Equipment:
A-Pods
Coolant Pods
Modular Armour

Other Equipment Maybes:
Torso Mounted Cockpits (Logically there's nothing stopping you putting the cockpit in a mechs torso, but practically there's alot of mechs that look like they have their cockpit in the torso but don't count as having this)
Partial Wings (LAMs exist, but don't function the same way rules wise. Another of those "I don't see why you couldn't" things)

I've probably missed a few, but I feel like those are the obvious ones.

[Daryk]

All that, and Blazer Cannons never went out of style... ;D

[DevianID]

I follow the 'Lagrange' method, of tech level.  I have a caveat of tech D stuff though, and from his list CASE is tech E in my glance of IntOps, but Apollo MRM and Torso Cockpits are tech D.

Booby traps, communication equipment, blazers (all techinically around in SW, but not found on mechs), and MMLs also are things that exist in Tech D or less.

Of the list of Tech D stuff, light ACs, MMLs, Hardened, Modular, shields all dont feel plausible for SW.  The light ACs are too light/efficient, same with MML, and dont play well with SW tech--MML specifically can replace every other missile launcher in the SW for great results, allowing you to cut all those bracket lasers on things like Archers and Trebuchets, and LAC5s are very powerful weapons, clearly an upgrade, that isnt good in SW.  Same with the defensive boosts of hardened/shield/modular armor.  They make SW designs way too tough, and dont have any proper counter with tandem charge SRMs or LBX for shields or RE Lasers to ignore the hardened buff.

[Izzy193]

what about certain types of specialty ammo? such as AP, Percision and tandem charge ammo types for their respective weapons example.

[Daryk]

Like Blazer Cannons, Recon Cameras and Remote Sensor Dispenser never went out of style either.

[Lagrange]

I have a caveat of tech D stuff though, and from his list CASE is tech E in my glance of IntOps, but Apollo MRM and Torso Cockpits are tech D.

Tweaked---forgot to check errata.

[Speedbump]

what about certain types of specialty ammo? such as AP, Percision and tandem charge ammo types for their respective weapons example.

Most alternative ammos will be fine. A few don't really make sense. (Acid missiles counter Ferro-Fibrous type armours which are rare even into the late 3040s, ARAD missiles counter electronics which are a little less rare but not much) The three examples you specifically quoted are a bit more dicey and they feel more like flat upgrades on alot of introtech mechs that have plenty of ammo. Standard autocannons could probably do with a boost, but whether one or both of AP/Precision would be too much I'm not sure. Tandem-Charge SRMs are extremly strong, especially in a pre-CASE environment and especially if you decide to allow MMLs as then you're buffing something that is already a buff over standard SRM launchers.

Edit:
Like take the Wasp 1L and the Locust 1S. These mechs go from below average even for their low weight to a threat that alot larger mechs really can't afford to ignore long term with TC SRMs. A larger SRM boat would be much worse.

[RifleMech]

I'm not listing items that already exist in the IS in the 3030s.


Energy weapons
Clan prototype ER S and M Lasers
Improved, Enhanced, ER, Light, Snub, and Heavy PPCs
PPC Capacitor
Improved L Laser
Heavy and ER Flamers
Centurion Weapon System
Bombast Laser
Chemical Lasers

ballistic weapons
LMG and HMG.
Clan UAC-Ps and LBX-Ps.
Improved ACs.
HVACs

Missile weapons
MMLs
Thunderbolts
MRMs
RLs
IOS
NLRMs
ELRM
Clan Prototype Streak SRM-4+SRM-6
Improved LRMs and SRMs

Other
A-B-M Pods.
Prototype Beagle and Guardian
DHS
Torso Cockpit
Small Cockpit
Command Console


By 3040 the prototypes get replaced with regular 3060 IS tech.
Add IS variety of Gauss Rifles.
LACs
RACs
Other heat sink types
Other Armor and Structure types

[Izzy193]

Thanks for the lists everyone, I was mainly looking at tech D or below tech mainly.

[Charistoph]

If anyone reminded of them, Chemical Lasers might make a comeback and be reproduced.  After all, that Ontos "Chemical" is down-right scary.

[DevianID]

If anyone reminded of them, Chemical Lasers might make a comeback and be reproduced.  After all, that Ontos "Chemical" is down-right scary.

For a game balance POV, youd probably want to slap pre-clan chemical lasers with a primitive -3 damage debuff the same as heavy rifles.  Like you point out, chemical lasers, even on clan mechs, are already clan tier++.  The chemical laser nova omnimech for example is insanely good, and so a 3025 hunchback 4P (chemical) wouldnt be plausible/balanced without some primitive penalty.

[Charistoph]

For a game balance POV, youd probably want to slap pre-clan chemical lasers with a primitive -3 damage debuff the same as heavy rifles.  Like you point out, chemical lasers, even on clan mechs, are already clan tier++.  The chemical laser nova omnimech for example is insanely good, and so a 3025 hunchback 4P (chemical) wouldnt be plausible/balanced without some primitive penalty.

Dropping 3 Heat per gun can be quite amazing.  Just dropping 2 per Gun helps, just check out the Black Hawk-KU Prime, and that's without the Combat Computer Quirk.  Still, you're dropping 2 Damage and 2 hexes of range per band as well as adding an Ammo Bomb for the privilege.

But as good as they are for 'Mechs, they are even better for ICE Combat Vehicles, or Fusion Vehicles that spam a lot of lasers (like the Ontos).  The Skulker gets 2 tons available by this switch, as an example.

The big problem off the table, though, is that the chemicals are very very dangerous (both primitive AND updated Clan), and can cause problems for the technical staff loading it up.

One last note, they are not Clan tier++ because of their effectiveness (which is actually lacking compared to Standard Lasers in everything but Heat), but because they aren't in Total Warfare.  Still, a Primitive Laser grid with a lower Damage value would track.

[Mechanis]

As others have stated, MMLs and Tbolts are both things that could easily be invented far earlier.

Blazers that are properly Tech C (the canon ones are D for some reason, despite being literally just two Large Lasers glued together with a bigger focus array) proliferating as the AC 20 replacement they're actually good at being, along with a Medium Laser equivalent is also a low hanging fruit.

Coolant Pods, that's another fun toy that has way more reason to exist in a world where DHS doesn't,

Have the Marians already whipped up rocket launchers yet? If not those are super low hanging fruit.

mmmm.

Some of the weirder missile and AC types that are kinda ass? HVACs, ELRMs, that kind of thing.

I believe Chem Lasers were mentioned? (I would honestly fluff these as having some kind of stupidly high density batteries of the non-rechargable type as "ammo" because "My laser runs on a literal truckload of AAs" feels very Succwars to me)

More things making use of the gear that is available, like Comms Gear and Recon Cameras.
Oh yeah More FCE designs because ICE is logistical cancer and also heavy as shit.

I also feel like LACs should be dropped a tech level and just be fluffed as basically snub cannons/sawn-offs because they're really just not even an actual improvement? The two bracket range drop is just... painful. they're fine as a Succwars sidegrade though.

oh yeah Snubbies! SNPPCs are like, around but nobody actually put the things into production till hella late, it's tragic since they would be great for the kind of down and dirty crush-fights you get in Succwars games.

mmmm
what else...
oh!
Stretch the Ghosts of Obeedah rules and let mechs carry like, recoilless rifles and whatever
really lean in to the whole "Slap whatever gun you can find on it" flavor.

[RifleMech]

mmmm
what else...
oh!
Stretch the Ghosts of Obeedah rules and let mechs carry like, recoilless rifles and whatever
really lean in to the whole "Slap whatever gun you can find on it" flavor.

This. 

[glitterboy2098]

High Velocity AC's fit the late succession wars and the tech crunch better than they do the post-clan era. HVACs are just regular ACs firing oversized shells to get extra range. No special technology or materials involved. Given that at the time they were developed in canon, the capcon had the ability to make stealtth armor, XL engines, er lasers, and all sorts of other asvanced stuff, them going retro to develop a new AC without any advanced tech (which might have offset the massive flaws!) doesn't quite fit.

But them developing it in the 3010's or 3020's, alongside their efforts at developing EWAR tech and new mech designs.. it would fit, especially given the simplicity of the concept of just sticking extra propellant into the AC ammo. The explosive drawback would be in keeping with the wilder more risk taking era as well.

[Mechanis]

ELRMs, too. "We will glue an LRM to a second LRM to get more range!" definitely feels more like Succession Wars technology. as does the launcher inexplicably increasing in mass (though at least like NLRMs they don't gain extra mass for no reason in the larger sizes, and so aren't actively pushed to use stacks of 5s when Artemis isn't in play)

[glitterboy2098]

the launcher mass change can be handwaved as the extra mass needed for the bigger ammo feeds and launch tubes to handle the longer missile body.