Small Fusion Engines (trying to help out our lighter brothers and sisters)

[Cowdragon]

This was inspired by Evilauthor's new engine thread (can never remember how to link, sorry). Where his approach made single and compact heat sinks more competitive with doubles, mine would allow lighter designs a little leway (ESPECIALLY LAMs!!!!) haha

So here's the skinny <---I never use that phrase enough

Small Fusion Engines are meant to be used on designs where internal space is the highest premium, as is the case with LAM's who have very limited choices as far as engines go. They weigh 1/4 less than a standard fusion engine, and take 2 crits fewer in the Center Torso. However, due to their smaller build, they can only hold 8 free heat sinks, while those internally held are calculated normally. These can be any sort of heat sink a standard engine could normally hold.

Too much? Too powerful? A step in the right direction?

[blitzy]

too powerful.  You taking a compact engine, and making it light.  maybe made it no internal heat sinks, or start at 2-4 heat sinks internal, and make it 1 extra internal every 100 rating points, to explain more why its so light and small.

[Cowdragon]

too powerful.  You taking a compact engine, and making it light.  maybe made it no internal heat sinks, or start at 2-4 heat sinks internal, and make it 1 extra internal every 100 rating points, to explain more why its so light and small.

Ooh yeah! Didn't even realize I had done that. I could easily see only having a base number of internal heat sinks, but only 4 or so. That would take the power away from it right there. I also suppose it could take the normal amount of criticals. That would keep that part fair.

[WarGod]

maybe make it only able to take 1 or 2 crit hits also?

[Cowdragon]

maybe make it only able to take 1 or 2 crit hits also?

Good idea, even 2 would put a limit on it to make it more fragile than standard.

[truetanker]

So...

Small Fusion:

2 Crit
3 Heat sink cpacity max

Tonnage and Ratings? Something odd numbered for flair?

TT

[BirdofPrey]

Here's what I had in mind:

Small engines come in all the standard sizes.  Compact Small engines take up 2  crits in the CT, all other types take up 4 crits in the CT (2 crits above the gyro and 2 below) with the normal number of crits in the side torsos for light types.  Weight is that of an engine one class lighter (So a small SFE weighs as much as an LFE while a Small XLFE weighs as much as an XXLFE of the same weight class

Due to their smaller size, small engines lack redundancy; A Small Engine can only suffer 2 critical hits, the first causes the engine to generate 10 extra heat while the second shuts the engine down (So a small LFE is just as vulnerable to the loss of a side torso as regular XLFEs)

Lastly the small size puts a limit on how much power may be generated; a Small engine may not possess a rating greater than 200.


I had thought it might also be possible to reduce the number of weight free heat sinks and/or the number of heat sinks buried in the engine as another balancing factor; in that case the heat produced by a crit would equal the number of free heat sinks. Additionally I am toying with lowering the max jump MP, in that case normal jump jets can provide a maximum jump MP of walk MP*0.6 (round up) and Improved jump jets would allow jump MP equal to walk MP.

All of these things basically allow for a glass cannon.  With a couple of exceptions at certain tonnage sweet spots, the engine rating limitation will put you into an average to lower speed band for a given weight class and the engine itself is more vulnerable to crits, but can provide and extra ton or two for weapons or armor.

[Death by Zeus]

My poor comic book mind was already envisioning a 400 rated small......  ;D  It's a jumbo shrimp!  ;D

[truetanker]

400S XL Jumbo Shrimp:
4 Crits Side Torso and 2 Crits Center Torso.

Place two of these in an assualt mech for a jump in speed and endurance!

TT

[Cowdragon]

400S XL Jumbo Shrimp:
4 Crits Side Torso and 2 Crits Center Torso.

Place two of these in an assualt mech for a jump in speed and endurance!

TT

That's actually what I'm afraid of. Don't want them abused. But small mechs lose out in so many areas. Jump Jet weight is disproportionately high. Engine weight gets pretty hefty. They can't carry much armor or weapons. Just looking for ways to make them a little more viable. I love lights. They are hard to keep alive though. I cannot imagine how tough it must have been to pilot one during the Succession Wars, under the constant threat of becoming dispossed. Even fighting pirates would have been a hairy feat.

[mathesont]

So you have an engine that takes up less space but holds fewer heat sinks so it is likely to require more space even to fit the 10 "free" sinks.  Kind of contradictory for mechs where space is at a premium.  Based on existing rules, any engine that is lighter without extra space would be hard to justify. 

For LAMs the solution seems to be components that boost performance in conjunction with normal engines - don't do LAMs enough to have suggestions.

Not sure light mechs need lighter engines.  They can manage ground speed pretty well.  Lowering jump jet mass might help but could be dangerous.  Simply making light mechs harder to hit would help them considerably.  harder to hit, but when you do they still go splat.

[Vanadius]

So you have an engine that takes up less space but holds fewer heat sinks so it is likely to require more space even to fit the 10 "free" sinks.  Kind of contradictory for mechs where space is at a premium.  Based on existing rules, any engine that is lighter without extra space would be hard to justify. 

For LAMs the solution seems to be components that boost performance in conjunction with normal engines - don't do LAMs enough to have suggestions.

Not sure light mechs need lighter engines.  They can manage ground speed pretty well.  Lowering jump jet mass might help but could be dangerous.  Simply making light mechs harder to hit would help them considerably.  harder to hit, but when you do they still go splat.

So, something like

Light Mechs get Narrow/Low profile quirk for free

AND may elect to use normal partial cover as full cover at the expense of firing weapons that turn.

[BirdofPrey]

That's not a bad idea.

[Cowdragon]

So you have an engine that takes up less space but holds fewer heat sinks so it is likely to require more space even to fit the 10 "free" sinks.  Kind of contradictory for mechs where space is at a premium.  Based on existing rules, any engine that is lighter without extra space would be hard to justify. 

For LAMs the solution seems to be components that boost performance in conjunction with normal engines - don't do LAMs enough to have suggestions.

Not sure light mechs need lighter engines.  They can manage ground speed pretty well.  Lowering jump jet mass might help but could be dangerous.  Simply making light mechs harder to hit would help them considerably.  harder to hit, but when you do they still go splat.

Not really. I was thinking it would get around the "10 free heat sinks" rule. So if it only had 4 or 5 internally, that's also only how many it would get for free. Make them doubles (be smart, haha) and it should still get you enough heat sinks to do most things you need to with a light, but will allow you a smaller, lighter engine to move faster (something a light should generally be doing more of anyway).

[mathesont]

A light with only 4 or 5 "free" heat sinks might be faster with one of these engines but the damage output would be crippled.  Even 2 medium lasers would require extra heat sinks, which would negate the engine weight savings.  And forget about jumping and shooting.

[Cowdragon]

A light with only 4 or 5 "free" heat sinks might be faster with one of these engines but the damage output would be crippled.  Even 2 medium lasers would require extra heat sinks, which would negate the engine weight savings.  And forget about jumping and shooting.

Yeah. Maybe 6  or 7? Not sure. That's why I'm hoping for lots of input. Plus, as I said, if they were DHS's then it would improve that part as well. Just trying to make lights a little better is all. Gotta be a drawback somewhere, and that was the first thing I came up with. More crits would work. Someone suggested only allowing for 1 or 2 critical hits before it's destroyed. I liked that too.

[BirdofPrey]

I'm not so sure reducing the weight free heat sinks is a good idea, but reducing the number of heatsinks that can be buried would add some extra vulnerability to a mech mounting one.

[Cowdragon]

I'm not so sure reducing the weight free heat sinks is a good idea, but reducing the number of heatsinks that can be buried would add some extra vulnerability to a mech mounting one.

Good point. And like I said, it's not so much to allow for added firepower, but for added speed on the little buggers. Not all lights need or want speed. But some really rely on it for their jobs. I think we need some sort of engine that allows for this option, and probably some sort of new jump jets for the very lightest of them. But that's probably another thread. :P

[BirdofPrey]

Interesting.  See I was thinking the problem light mechs had was a lack  firepower and durability rather than speed, hence the suggestion I made earlier with regards to a rating limit.  Something like that allows for mechs of moderate speed to squeeze out an extra couple of tons for guns and armor.

[Cowdragon]

Interesting.  See I was thinking the problem light mechs had was a lack  firepower and durability rather than speed, hence the suggestion I made earlier with regards to a rating limit.  Something like that allows for mechs of moderate speed to squeeze out an extra couple of tons for guns and armor.

I do like your idea as well. Maybe they just need lighter stuff in general? I like some of the Protomech weapons. Those little AC's and stuff would be nice.

[BirdofPrey]

I do like your idea as well. Maybe they just need lighter stuff in general? I like some of the Protomech weapons. Those little AC's and stuff would be nice.

To be honest, the IS really needs micro lasers and something equivalent to the PAC/8   The light active probe would also be nice.

To be honest, I would really like some light weapons and light equipment fittable to the lightest mech designs (including some sort of small engine and gyro) as a way to make ultralights the IS answer to protomechs.

[Cowdragon]

To be honest, the IS really needs micro lasers and something equivalent to the PAC/8   The light active probe would also be nice.

To be honest, I would really like some light weapons and light equipment fittable to the lightest mech designs (including some sort of small engine and gyro) as a way to make ultralights the IS answer to protomechs.

YES X 10348634564357636!!

Lighter equipment that is made for scouts. NEEDZUH!

[AchanhiArusa]

Yeah, after playing Mekton and d20 I'm not sure why there isn't some penalty to hit smaller 'mechs and other units.  Especially in the modern Era with all the Targeting computers and Pulse Lasers.  If I didn't have to worry about Pulse Lasers and Targ computers (which is why I like 3025 above all else), I would do the following:

                 Modifier to hit
Light          +1
Medium      +0
Heavy         –1
Assault       –2

and based on Mekton I would give the additive inverse to piloting checks.

[Col Toda]

When you consider mechs tend to start with 45+ Crit spaces and a 100 ton combat vehicle
has only 25 Spaces for equipment .  The designs in which crit spaces become a premium
are few .  They are a few basic methods for getting more effective crit spaces . 1 Compact
engine ; 2 Compact Gyro ;3 Small  Cockpit ;  High Rating XL or Light engine in which you
stuff more double HS in it.  The only case in which you would require the use of a small
engine is if you want endo - steel and heavy Ferro fibrous Armor .  Or a combination of
Heavy Gauss Rifles and above as you seem to wish to sacrifice heat efficacy for heat
dissipation .  In Combat Vehicles it is much better to put in a Combat Fuel Cell engine
from Tac Ops to get the result you want  just use mostly ballistic weapons .  In mechs
the whole idea is against the point of choosing single vs double HS and other balancing
design points .  Support Vehicles use a completely different with different exploitable
benefits and problems attached . I do not see the need for it .  Lastly for mechs you
may get what you want in space by going Endo Composite or Composite Internal
Structure .  This seems to try to get what you want by adding a new engine type as
opposed to thinking around the problem using the existing rules to get the desired
results like an engineer would do.

[Red Pins]

...VERY interesting!  I wish you'd come up with this when I was creating the Extra-Light Mechs for my AU; this may as well be written for it.  I didn't find it too difficult to use the standard engines, though - I was mostly interested in the 100 ER and under.

Something like this might be most usefull in the 300-400 ER, or Large engines (400-500 ER).