Author Topic: Is the Marian Hegemony the new Rim Worlds Republic? (Read 20200 times)

ArcaneRaven · « **on:** 09 February 2011, 16:32:59 »

Quite recently - while reading HB:MPS - I was contemplating the following thought. Before the fall of the Star League, the four major Periphery states all had a certain theme. The Taurians were the admittedly stubborn but righteous and freedom loving people. The Outworlds Alliance was extremly pacifist and a bit dull. Canopians are notorious as hedonists and spineless, yet very tolerant. But the Rim Worlds Republic didn't share many common principles of the Periphery. This state was founded by war criminals fleeing criminal prosecution for a massacre. House Amaris was the most oppressive and the one caring least of all for their subjects. They were the only ones to welcome subjugation by the Star League and of course it was only House Amaris which bore a personal grudge against the Camerons. When the SLDF overrun the Rim Worlds and the Republic was conquered by House Steiner later on the one vicious power of the four Periphery states had ceased to exist.

Enter Ceasar. The Marian Hegemony was founded by pirates and the tiny realm only survived by piracy, robbing its neighbours. Down to the present day they practice slavery and maintain rather poor relations with their Periphery companions. They're definitely the most expansionist Periphery realm, swallowing the Illyrian Palatinate and the Lothian League, even daring to bite off worlds of the Circinius Federation.

Are the Marians the new scoundrels of the Periphery, replacing the Rim Worlds Republic? Though, that thought seems to be a bit one-dimensional and simplistic, there seems to be a certain truth in it to me.

Saint · « **Reply #1 on:** 09 February 2011, 20:34:07 »

In the past yes they were scoundrels and still have a potential for a Armaris type leader. But so does every other faction.

The Marians have been more direct in their targets, and have used no excuses for why.

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 February 2011, 04:52:02 »

But aren't the other three major periphery powers less expansionist and giving all of their people more and equal rights?

Don't get me wrong here. I don't want to start a Bashing-The-Hegemony-Thread. To the contrary. We need some saturnine looking expansionists in the periphery. We can't be all pacifists or civil rights campaigners out here. ;D My thought was that after the original periphery villain was destroyed, TPTB established the former Marian pirate realm as new and serious periphery power to follow the RWR's footsteps to a degree.

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 February 2011, 05:24:27 »

Similar roots aside, the RWR used subtle means to further its territory and influence, and Stefan Amaris forever tainted the reputation of that realm.

As a Marian, i don't think i want my realm to be seen as sharing anything similar to the RWR. We already prefer the Roman way of expanding territory, and we state it, just like the Draconis Combine.

vaderi · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 February 2011, 11:22:01 »

Also the only reason the hegemony is the most expansionistic nation in the periphery is because all the Taurian colonies are deserting the Taurians.

I don't think that the Hegemony is being set in the RWR's footsteps at all (except that they are both crescent shaped).

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #5 on:** 10 February 2011, 12:25:24 »

Quote from: ArkRoyalRavager on 10 February 2011, 05:24:27

As a Marian, i don't think i want my realm to be seen as sharing anything similar to the RWR. We already prefer the Roman way of expanding territory, and we state it, just like the Draconis Combine.

Yep, Marians are straight about that. A rather refreshing straightforwardness. Again, I'm not here to blame the Hegemony for their expansionist ambitions. It's only that the RWR was kind of counterbalance to the other, less expansionist powers. And since the RWR is no more, the Hegemony seems to represent the "other side" of the periphery.

Or am I completely wrong there?

Martius · « **Reply #6 on:** 10 February 2011, 12:46:36 »

You are right- the Hegemony is different compared to other periphery states- as was the RWR. But this is where the similarities end.

Slavery is rather common in the Periphery- the Magistracy uses slaves as well and several other states/nations use similar concepts. The Workers on Niops come to my mind or the slaves/serfs of Astrokaszy and Herotitus.

Circinus had also a rather 'dark' background but they are gone now (sadly).

I prefer the Hegemony to other nation exactly becvause they are special. They need no Pet Clan or Big IS Brother to help them out, they owe nobody.

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #7 on:** 10 February 2011, 13:10:28 »

AFAIK, the Hegemony is the only one to practice slavery in the periphery. Do you have any reference for slavery in the Magistracy?

Martius · « **Reply #8 on:** 10 February 2011, 13:13:05 »

Yes. HB: MPS.

A slave in Canopus 'earns' 35CBs in the Hegemony only 20. Look at page 190.

Canopus is just not admitting their slavery that openly it seems. ;)

edit: prices can be found on pg 192. A slave in Canopus costs 100 CBs and is considered a C/D item....

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 February 2011, 13:17:41 »

But that's completely to the contrary of the fluff of the MoC section of the book. *looks puzzled*

Martius · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 February 2011, 13:33:16 »

Remember that this fluff is always written in character- the in universe writer wants to tell you something- which must not always be the whole truth. ;)

In this case:

Quote

â€”From the soon-to-be published memoir of Emma
Centrella, official release date 12 December, 3067.

Flaresnake · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 February 2011, 14:35:23 »

no the Marian's goals are less grand. they just what to be a stable indepent state. the expantion is just a part of that

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 February 2011, 17:03:10 »

Quote from: Martius on 10 February 2011, 13:33:16

Remember that this fluff is always written in character- the in universe writer wants to tell you something- which must not always be the whole truth. ;)

In this case:

What you cite is just the introductory text of the MoC section. This is an excerpt of Magestrix Emma's memoirs. The following text is more objective and slaves are nowhere mentioned. To the contrary, the progressive view of Canopian liberties, civil and human rights are mentioned. Even that the judiciary treats all people euqal and fair.

Martius · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 February 2011, 02:50:47 »

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 10 February 2011, 17:03:10

What you cite is just the introductory text of the MoC section. This is an excerpt of Magestrix Emma's memoirs. The following text is more objective and slaves are nowhere mentioned. To the contrary, the progressive view of Canopian liberties, civil and human rights are mentioned. Even that the judiciary treats all people euqal and fair.

"All people are treated fair, sure. That guy over there? Oh, don't mind him, he belongs to the inventory." :D

Anyway, there is much unspoken in those books. For example where do the Marians build their Locust and Commando? It is said nowhere. The MoC gets a lot of positive spin in the books, but if you dig a bit deeper you will see that the faction is more interesting than being just a bunch of hedonistic girls with Mechs. It has some dark sides and to be honest I like that.

And BTW- Rules always trump the fluff. So yes, there are slaves in the MoC.

Lorcan Nagle · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 February 2011, 02:56:52 »

The salary tables in AtoW (which the salary tables in HB:MPS are based on) have a labourer/slave entry - it doesn't necessarily mean the person is a slave, just that he or she is doing menial labour.

Maelwys · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 February 2011, 03:26:37 »

Quote from: Lorcan Nagle on 11 February 2011, 02:56:52

The salary tables in AtoW (which the salary tables in HB:MPS are based on) have a labourer/slave entry - it doesn't necessarily mean the person is a slave, just that he or she is doing menial labour.

Unfortunately the legality chart indicates that slavery is somewhat legal in the Magistracy as well. Unfortunately

100/C/D

and

35.00

Is all we have that describes slavery in the Magistracy. 12 characters. The passages on the Magistracy make no mention of it, the writeups in the other Periphery books make no mention of it, nor do any novels or stories that involve the Magistracy. It doesn't even make sense, since all you need for a Magistracy citizenship is proof that you've been oppressed, which slavery by its very definition is.

When the writers were asked about it, they didn't even know what it meant. How it occurred, how it was happening...what it involved, nothing. The writers and the Line Developer didn't even know. Quite frankly, when something that big is retconned in, and the writers don't know what's going on, and nothing in the fluff bothers to explain it, and it goes against everything the faction pretty much stands for (AND is a prime ingredient for giving the slave citizenship in the Magistracy, it goes from being a retcon, to being errata.

I can only guess that someone went "teehee! Sex slaves!" or something and decided to add it in.

Medron Pryde · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 February 2011, 05:09:26 »

Yeah...slavery (nonvoluntary at least) and the Magistracy does NOT mix.

However, if you WANT a slave, ANYTHING can be purchased there. Basically, as long as both sides are happy in the end, it is allowed, so I suppose you COULD pay somebody to be your slave and they would be your slave until the contract was up. AS LONG as both involved parties agreed.

;)

Maelwys · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 February 2011, 05:28:43 »

Yeah, except that isn't really slavery. And that's part of the crux of the problem. We have literally 12 characters (2 of which are forward slashes, 1 a decimal point) to detail how slavery is. Its such a massive retcon that it deserves an explanation. As it is, you're put the Magistracy on the same playing field as say, Astrokaszy where you can main and kill a person on a whim because you own them.

It was a horrible addition, and should be errata'd out.

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 February 2011, 08:05:07 »

I have opened a thread in the writers section of this board to ask for clarification. :)

Maelwys · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 February 2011, 08:07:44 »

http://www.classicbattletech.com/forumarchive/index.php/topic,52811.0.html

There's the one I opened 18 months ago. Maybe they've thought about it since then :)

I actually submitted the errata to change it to NA across the board, don't think it ever took :)

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 February 2011, 11:03:22 »

Aaah, thanks for that link, Maelwys. That was indeed informative. Nevertheless, I hope I'll get an answer in the writers section. Maybe the answer has changed. ;)

Arkansas Warrior · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 February 2011, 12:19:07 »

Quote from: Medron Pryde on 11 February 2011, 05:09:26

Yeah...slavery (nonvoluntary at least) and the Magistracy does NOT mix.

However, if you WANT a slave, ANYTHING can be purchased there. Basically, as long as both sides are happy in the end, it is allowed, so I suppose you COULD pay somebody to be your slave and they would be your slave until the contract was up. AS LONG as both involved parties agreed.

;)

Quote from: Maelwys on 11 February 2011, 05:28:43

Yeah, except that isn't really slavery.

Actually it is. Debt-slavery is as old as the Pentateuch (generally believed to be circa 1500 BC) at the very least. Can't pay your debts? Congratulations, you now have to work for me for x number of years without pay, then you're free to go. Not quite as voluntary as Medron's example, but pretty close.

Guardsman · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 February 2011, 18:17:13 »

The Rim Worlds Republic and Marian Hegemonyâ€™s foundations are similar enough to the rest of the Periphery. Both tried to emulate the ancient world, in the Republicâ€™s case it was Greece, the Hegemony favoured Rome. Both set out an aggressive expansion policy from the outset, conquering nearby Periphery States. But as the Republic matured, they changed their basis from Ancient Greece to Napoleonic France. It remains to be seen what the Hegemony will do. It should also be said that they are, geographically, mirrors of each other. The Republicâ€™s power base was on Apollo, out near the top of the map, and gradually stretched all the way to Circinus. The Hegemonyâ€™s base is on Alpheratz, out near the bottom, and was, up to the Jihad, stretching ever closer towards Circinus. The difference is scale and depth. The Republic was composed of hundreds of worlds, and lasted for centuries. The Hegemony are only dozens of worlds, and have lasted decades.

Martius · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 February 2011, 04:32:00 »

Quote from: Guardsman on 11 February 2011, 18:17:13

The Hegemonyâ€™s base is on Alpheratz...

Alphard.....

And give us time, we are still growing. :D

ArkRoyalRavager · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 February 2011, 04:41:05 »

Yup...we're considered extremely young for a BT faction...even younger than the Clans.

Arkansas Warrior · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 February 2011, 14:38:23 »

I wouldn't say Alphard's near the bottom. More like the bottom left corner. Taurus And Canopus are near the bottom.

vaderi · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 February 2011, 15:12:56 »

And Erod's Escape is the bottom :)

Guardsman · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 February 2011, 15:44:39 »

Quote from: Arkansas Warrior on 12 February 2011, 14:38:23

I wouldn't say Alphard's near the bottom. More like the bottom left corner. Taurus And Canopus are near the bottom.

It was a generalisation. Apollo and Alphard are more or less mirror images of each other. Flip the map in half and they line up fairly well, and their power bases expanded more or less in a mirror image, with a bulbous area around the capital, stretching along the left side of the Successor States, and meeting up at Circinus.

ArcaneRaven · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 February 2011, 16:50:45 »

Quote from: Martius on 12 February 2011, 04:32:00

And give us time, we are still growing. :D

Be assured, this won't happen. ^-^

Guardsman · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 February 2011, 18:06:04 »

Quote from: PrudentPanda on 12 February 2011, 16:50:45

Be assured, this won't happen. ^-^

I think the Dark Age has proven that. With a fractured Free Worlds League, the Marian Hegemony still had no where to grow except through colonisation. The League, even fractured, is too strong. And the Magistracy of Canopus is no easier a target.