Sell me on...Rifleman IIc

[Southern Coyote]

Considering picking up a Rifleman IIc but don't know a lot about it and not overly impressed with what I've read about it.  So, is this mech a good second liner?  Which configs work best?

If there is a MotW post somewhere, I would love to read it as well.

Thanks in advance!

[peter crowley]

I find the original rifleman IIC with 4 pulse lasers is quite good as a support unit for second line stars and because of the pulse bonus you can use a slightly worse pilot to reduce your bv. Not much of a fan of most of the other variants though the ATM variant can really hurt even assault mechs.
The rifleman IIC 6 is actually very good as an anti-air mech in the classic rifleman way with its 2 HAG30s and plenty of ammo.

I ended up running mine in a star of assault secondliners which all have 3/5/3 movement profiles and its been very successful there with bigger scarier targets to draw enemy fire away from it.   

[Moonsword]

Rifleman IIC: Quad TC'd LPLs?  SFE?  Armor?  Cha-ching!
Rifleman IIC 2: Yeah, I'm not impressed much, either.
Rifleman IIC 3: Err, nope, not really doing a lot for me - Ultra/2s that aren't going to do much and HLLs you can't close to use against Clan opponents do not a useful 'Mech make.
Rifleman IIC 4: It lacks the ridiculous munchtasticness of the original, but it's solid and effective enough in my book.
Rifleman IIC 5: Bouncy enough for a Falcon, made to annoy the Word!
Rifleman IIC 6: Not great but it's going to hurt when it gets into range and the AMS is going to chew up missile volleys.  VTOLs, fighters, and WiGEs are going to hate you so much.
Rifleman IIC 7: Don't we have enough of these plasma configurations?  Especially without a targeting computer to deal with that yummy heavy laser penalty on top of the IJJs you're obliged to use to get close?
Rifleman IIC 8: Solid, effective, and dangerous to a variety of target types.  Great all-around unit for supporting your forces.

[Adgar76]

Well, i don't know what kind of comments you read, but i think that overall it is a very good direct fire support mech, and a very solid secondliner. The actual capabilities vary a lot from variant to variant, and there's eight of those, but almost all of them can jump, have low ground speed (usually 3/5, sometimes 4/6), and max or near-max armor.
The original article is quite old, but might still be found in the forum archives in a zip file containing the oldest reviews; of course, it will be missing several recent variants. I'll just give my 2 cents about the mech anyway :P

The original version is a beast, with 4 CLPL and the sinks to fire them most of the time. Slow, but it can jump, and with maxed armor and a standard engine it is a tough kill, too.
The 2 is kind of a smaller Bane, but its faster, and some people actually like plinking away with massed UAC2's :)
The 3 is somewhat meh, with twin HLL and UAC2's, but its cheap (even if not as much as the 2) if you balance games by BV.
4 is, IMO, one of the best variants, with twin CLPL and ATM9's. Same sluggish speed as the base model, but it can still jump, the armor is still the same, and only builds up movement heat on an alpha.
The 5 is a beast too, with 5 IJJs and 3 TC'd ERLLs, accompanied by a couple of med pulses. An outstanding sniper which can be a real pain to bring down.
Variant 6 is the only non jumper, and with its slow ground speed, it can be a problem. However, twin HAG30's are a lot of firepower, and they make this the very best AA variant.
The last two variants are fresh from TRO 3085; both have a full set of IJJs and solid firepower, with the 7 being more of a brawler with HLL's and plasma cannons, and the 8 more flexible thanks to the presence of both sniping weapons (ERLLs) and close range critseeking in the form of banks of AP gauss rifles and streaks.

Overall, except maybe a couple variants, i think you could do a lot worse than add a Rifleman IIC to your forces :)

[wantec]

Rifleman IIC 7: Don't we have enough of these plasma configurations?  Especially without a targeting computer to deal with that yummy heavy laser penalty on top of the IJJs you're obliged to use to get close?

Double check your info cause my copy of RS:PPU_Complete has a TC in the LT. Still, between only 1 ton of ammo per PC, 16 DHS, and short weapon ranges, I wouldn't use it

[Arkansas Warrior]

The 4 is the version every good Coyote uses.  Just sayin'.   :)

[Moonsword]

Double check your info cause my copy of RS:PPU_Complete has a TC in the LT. Still, between only 1 ton of ammo per PC, 16 DHS, and short weapon ranges, I wouldn't use it

Missed that on looking at it the first time.  Okay, it's not quite as bad, but I can find better 'Mechs.

[Iron Mongoose]

The quntessental veriant is the main one, with its four LPLs.  Its almost a watch word for going over the top on a weapon that's just a bit too good, along with the Glass Spider 2 or Black Python.  But, like thouse mechs, its not perfict.  Its painfuly slow, at 3/5/3, and the jets keep the BV high (2307, which is on par with many Summoners and Nova Cats), so taking a poor pilot is less of a bonus than it might seem.  But, its got four LPLs, and with 38 heat dissapation it can keep them in action fairly well if it can find a place to park, or keep three going all the time even on the bounce.  Its absolutly worth taking, but just know what you're getting your self into, since a lack of speed, a lack of extreem range weapons, a shortage of pure, raw power and a reputation like it has get it into trouble. 

The 4 is probably the next best one, since it keeps the thing that made the prime great, the LPLs, and yet moderates them to remove one of the biggest complaints, that it was something of a munch boat.  ATMs are a weapon I love, but they're contrivercial enough that most people won't complain when you plop a IIC4 down on the table the way they might for a model 1, and it can still fight well, gaining in extreem range, in close in power, and in heat efficancy at the expense of some ammo and the lost pulse bonus on its ATMs.

If you're a big fan of the 3/5/5 movement profile, the 5s probably one of the better mechs in that class, but that's not saying too much.  The loss of the pulse bonus on a mech made to be very jumpy is strongly felt.

If you're not a big fan of fighters and VTOLs, but your opponent is, then the 6 is for you.  Its slow, since it ditches the jets and its got low ammo, but twin HAG 30s can't be ignored.  It also works as a support mech, but with no hold punchers it struggles on its own in my experiance to kill other comperable mechs.

The 7, like the 2 and 3, is pretty forgetable.

The 8 is noteworthy in the sense that it takes a totaly difrent aproach to design.  It should amost be the IIIC1 rather than the IIC8.  It moves 5/8/5, and mounts a ballanced array of twin ER LLs and twin SSRM6s, backed by four APGRs.  Its actualy a pretty good little mech, with good weapon choices, ample heatsinks, good speed, and good armor.  Its down on big guns relitive to its brothers (or uncles) but its more ballanced, and actualy does similar peak damage.  Definatly worth a look, especaly if you're not already too attached to the style of the base model.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

I'm kinda surprised to hear that the original Rifleman IIC got any bad press, it's usually being cussed on for munchkinery! Spamming those was considered seriously bad form in all the circles I played and play in. I know some leagues that have banned it outright. Personally I'm pretty moderate towards it. It hits pretty hard and with good accuracy, it is however slow and can be overwhelmed by brawlers that get close where the pulse bonus matters less, and pack on lots of raw damage. The Rifleman IIC is also relatively less evil when you're playing with Clan Veteran and Elite pilots because the pulse bonus counts for less; it's at its optimum with 4/5 and 3/4 pilots. Despite the downsides, it's a nasty mech and should work well anywhere outside of a point-blank urban brawl.

The Rifleman IIC 2 is pretty crappy. 4 UAC/2s. Avoid unless every other mech in your force is munch and you want something to balance them out.

The Rifleman IIC 3 is not as bad as the 2, but it's not great either. I like heavy lasers, but the 2 UAC/2s are rather wasted tonnage.

The Rifleman IIC 4 addresses the flaws of the first by using 2 ATM9s in place of two large pulse, but it reduces the long-range firepower by doing that. I like it quite a lot as a general support mech, it's handy at all ranges. Another bonus is that it has little of the munchkin reputation of the original.


The Rifleman IIC 5 is kinda good, it suffers from having more illustrious brothers but mobility and Clan ERLLs are always nice.

The Rifleman IIC 6 packs a whallop and a half, I've not used them myself but I've fought against them a few times and while their ammo lasts, they're nasty. They strip armor and crit-seek in equal measures, and they're probably one of the most optimal anti-LRM boat mechs you'll find. Good anti-air too, as others have said. I think this variant is quirky but hitting power and cool factor give it win points.

The Rifleman IIC 7 is inefficient but not useless. Heat is it's real problem.

The Rifleman IIC 8 is a new breed altogether, it's in a similar vein to the IIC 4 but much faster.

[Southern Coyote]

Hmm...

Well, the long and short of it is that the Rifleman IIc would be a bonus for me being such a good husband today with another purchase I'm making.  But I don't know much about it.  I just wasn't sure if its worth the relatively little amount of cash for it...

[Headshot]

The first one was part of the 55' munch orgy the Clan second liners in that book represented. Most of them were better than nearly every frontline Omni config, and saw use accordingly, led by the 4 LPLs of this bogeyman.
(especially since the first release had the full 20 DHS, and was 0.75 tons underweight, oh the joys of fractional accounting)

Every later version is an ongoing effort to build a Mech just as good as the Monster while keeping the munch factor at reasonable levels, and most fail.

Of all of them, i like the new 8 the most, unfortunately its not a Rifleman anymore, not even a IIC, its an Arcas trading the MPLs for APGs...

Anyway, munchiness aside, the "vintage" Rifleman IIC is still one of the best Mechs you can field, and personally i consider it a nice hommage to the original Riflemans four Large Lasers.

[Hellraiser]

Rifleman IIC: Quad TC'd LPLs?  SFE?  Armor?  Cha-ching!

/cough, no TC, just Quad LPLs



What I really miss is the ORIGINAL RFL-IIC that had 20 DHS for 40 Heat.
Oh, till someone noticed it was underweight and they had to retcon it with 1 less heatsink to fit in an active probe,  /cry.

That said, even as is now, its the only one I've ever fielded.

I did face the 4 model once when it challenged my DWolf-A in a Zell fight,  my AMS made short work of "Most" of the ATMs and I killed Elementals & Vees as it tried to stay out of range,  then finally got into Gauss/LPL range and started showing it love.  }:)

[Moonsword]

You don't need the TC, honestly, although I could've sworn there was one.  Evidently not.  And frankly, I'm not bothered by the sink.  After being tattooed into the lodge of the Awesome, the heat curve here is intimately familiar.

[Mattlov]

Pick it up anyway.  Never hurts to have a heavy Clan second-liner for an OpFor.

[Iron Mongoose]

Yes, the 'new' IIC1 is a bit worse than the fractional accounting launch version.  But, being ever so slightly worse than one of the most superb munch mechs of the game still leaves it in a really good place.  It complements the faster pulse/TC mechs of that TRO nicely, offering a higher powered counter point to their more accutate and manuverable attack.  As for 55 as a whole, it had a few stinkers.  But, the designers really seemed to be exploring what could be done with pulse lasers and pushing the envalope in that direction, leading to a lot of extreemly effective mechs, even when they tried to ballance out the LPLs with other silly stuff like MGs and SRM2s.

[Emil]

The original always struck me as a useful 'Mech for a newbie joining a group of experienced gamers for a single scenario.  It's easy to play and 4 Clan LPLs give it a straightforward role.

[Hellraiser]

even when they tried to ballance out the LPLs with other silly stuff like MGs and SRM2s.

Ssshhhh.  Thats why its not a "cheese" mech, you know, we got MGs for AI instead of all pulse/TC combo love.