"Don't Mess With Texas"

[Cerberus_02]

So I just read the sarna.net entry on the "Prinz Eugen mutiny" (so much for "volunteering" to join Kerensky) and after reading up on the Texas-class, I'm wondering just how successful such a boarding action could really be.

It also helps that it fondly reminded me of the mutual stand-offs aboard the "Galactica" and the "Pegasus" CiCs.

[cray]

Taking it with what, defended by what?

I'm sure a galaxy of elementals could take a Texas defended by a squad of school children. There might be some more evenly matched scenarios where the attackers could win, too. ;)

On the other hand, Big Al Kerensky did have lots and lots of loyal veteran SLDF marines at his disposal during the mutiny, so a successful defense was probably not in the cards.

[Weirdo]

I'd have to know the attacking force. Can't give an opinion until then.

I will say that among SLDF BBs, the Texas is possibly the best suited for destroying small craft from a distance. My method for getting my troops onboard would be to distract the ship with an attack by other Large WarShips, forcing it to use its guns against them while your shuttle carriers get close so they can launch the assault shuttles as close as possible. The farther away you are when your shuttles launch, the more time those numerous missile launchers and massive laser bays have time to cut them down.

[Cerberus_02]

Taking it with what, defended by what?

I'd have to know the attacking force. Can't give an opinion until then.

Sarna.net says Kerensky's son Andery, the future Khan of the Jade Falcons, and 160 marines.  The entry doesn't say how they got aboard the Prinz Eugen, nor does it say what counter-boarding capability the mutineers had.

[Weirdo]

162 Marine points? More than enough, unless Prinz Eugen has a lot of marines beyond the normal crew complement aboard.

[Cerberus_02]

I wish the entry had a bit more detail, like if the marines boarded via secrecy, or brute force, or were assembled from the carried dropships, etc.

[Colt Ward]

Considering the Prinz Eugen had jumped away from Kerensky . . . pretty sure it was not secrecy.

[Cerberus_02]

Considering the Prinz Eugen had jumped away from Kerensky . . . pretty sure it was not secrecy.

Then how could 160 Marines get aboard a nine-ship flotilla including at least one warship known for its maneuverability?

[Weirdo]

With faster ships and faster shuttles, and backup with heavy guns.

[Cerberus_02]

With faster ships and faster shuttles, and backup with heavy guns.

So the other ships with the Eugen were not warships with any point defenses?

[Weirdo]

HEAVY guns. This should obviously be proportional to their expected opposition, since they know exactly how many ships left with Eugen. I'm not assuming stupidity on the part of the assaulting force.

[Cerberus_02]

I'm not assuming stupidity on the part of the assaulting force.

Well, we are dealing with people who decided to go "Oregon Trail IN SPACE" with no clear destination, so...

[Weirdo]

Fighting is what they do. Ergo, when I suggested big guns, fast ships, and faster shuttles, I said that on the assumption that they'd apply the same solution to every enemy ship in varying proportion. Since we were only talking about the Texas initially, I saw no reason to even think about the rest of the flotilla, since if we needed to think about them, they would have been mentioned at the very beginning.

[Cerberus_02]

Since we were only talking about the Texas....

Because I have no information on the ships accompanying the Eugen, nor what brought the marines to attack it with.  I posed the question in the hopes that more informed forum members could enlighten me.

[Weirdo]

Aside from SLS Hermes, I also know nothing.

[Colt Ward]

IIRC, there were hints it included the 2 Camerons ComStar ended up with, but I think the rest of the ships had a stigma.  You might look in Operation Klondike, some of the Founder info covered it I think.

[Cannonshop]

Looking at it from a rational perspective, Kerensky and Co. would have HAD to have men on the inside.  Why?

Because the Prinz Eugen was taken intact.  Boarding is a dicey situation when the enemy vessel isn't actively manuevering to avoid boarding attempts, much less actively manuevering AND firing weapons.

There's also the matter of the PE Jumping away from the formation-figure a 360 degree by 360 degree search area with a 30LY radius they could, theoretically, jump into, figure that the Staff of both sides are NOT blithering idiots.  Without an inside man, the Fleet would have a very hard time locating the target flotilla to begin with, though it is interesting that the Eugen's officers didn't disperse their comrades across several points to make a rendezvous later-the first move one would logically take, breaking away from "Kerensky's Fleet", and a standard Naval evasion manuever when breaking from ANY Convoy.

An "Inside man" explains how Kerensky was able to find/round up that group as quickly as he did, and explains how a ship with that MUCH defensive firepower could be taken by Marines without mass casualties and/or destruction of the vessel's ability to...y'know, jump and carry stuff.

[Weirdo]

That's the theory behind Electa and Lady Shandra? Hadn't heard it before, I like it.

Cannonshop's comments about damage and mass casualties could explain why they were abandoned. If the ships were damaged and/or the crew gutted, there might not have been resources or manpower available to repair/crew them afterwards, especially since I doubt Kerensky would have stayed in place for very long out of fear that the IS might be following them.

[Korzon77]

Also, it depends on how ruthless the Texas was-- we don't have any information that they spaced everyone else, so its entirely likely they wer ejsut trying to go home and weren't interesting on killing other SLDF individuals-- Keresnkey was.

Actually, interestingly enough, he probably didn't have a leg to stand on-- he'd left his legitimacy when he abandoned the Hegemony, and of course the Star League no longer existed.

[Cannonshop]

Also, it depends on how ruthless the Texas was-- we don't have any information that they spaced everyone else, so its entirely likely they wer ejsut trying to go home and weren't interesting on killing other SLDF individuals-- Keresnkey was.

Actually, interestingly enough, he probably didn't have a leg to stand on-- he'd left his legitimacy when he abandoned the Hegemony, and of course the Star League no longer existed.

Kerensky had the same legitimacy any other first-generation Bandit King, or Mutineer, or leader of deserters has.

[Weirdo]

Kerensky's legitimacy(or total lack thereof) is probably beyond the intended scope of this thread...

Though I agree with you.

[Auman]

So I just read the sarna.net entry on the "Prinz Eugen mutiny" (so much for "volunteering" to join Kerensky) and after reading up on the Texas-class, I'm wondering just how successful such a boarding action could really be.

It also helps that it fondly reminded me of the mutual stand-offs aboard the "Galactica" and the "Pegasus" CiCs.

The game being as it is, mostly chance based, I think there's always a possibility and you just have to trust the Island, Jack. Pic related.

[Cerberus_02]

The game being as it is, mostly chance based, I think there's always a possibility and you just have to trust the Island, Jack. Pic related.

Coincidentally, my current GM's campaign plot is based on "Lost."  Our "polar bear" was a  Kodiak 'Mech.

[Auman]

Was John Locke the pilot of a quad-mech before his dropship broke in half over the Island? :3

[The Hawk]

That's the theory behind Electa and Lady Shandra? Hadn't heard it before, I like it.

I haven't heard it either.  I'm going from memory here, but I thought when the Invisible Truth first makes an appearance (in Grave Covenant, IIRC?) Beresick or someone speculates that they were left behind because their lack of reliability.

[Colt Ward]

And found in the Deep Periphery . . .

[DaveMac]

And found in the Deep Periphery . . .

According to Comstar and we know they've never told porkies  ;D

[monty]

Then how could 160 Marines get aboard a nine-ship flotilla including at least one warship known for its maneuverability?

With heavy losses. At least 6 assault dropships, 1 of them an Achilles Class were destroyed trying to close with the Prinz Eugen. There were 84 marines onboard the shuttle Elizabeth Hazen & Andery Kerensky used to board the Prinz Eugen & 5 other shuttles were also used according to the Founding of the Clans serial. To make that fit with Elizabeth Hazens figure of 38 dead & 56 wounded out of a strike force of 160 marines in Operation Klondike I would think that the 160 were either her personal unit or only 2 shuttles successfully boarded the Prinz Eugen & that the casualties she mentions come only from that number. The total casualties would be much higher.

[Paladin1]

That makes for a much more interesting scenario, but I still want to know who was the genius who thought that taking assault Dropships against a Texas Class was a good idea.  Also, if only two of six boarding shuttles made it to the target, it makes me wonder about the planning abilities of SLDF officers; that kind of casualty rate looks more like a result of something akin to  Pickett's charge.

[Weirdo]

Assault ships are a very good idea, since they can close with the Texas extremely quickly, and use evasive maneuvers while doing so, then dropping off the shuttles at pointblank range. The trick to keeping them alive is to give the Texas something more dangerous to shoot at, such as a Mckenna following right behind the DropShips, so the Texas has something more important to shoot at. (Shooting out the Texas's guns will also help, and the Mckenna can do that.) Saturating him with targets is also a good idea, to guarantee that the target will be unable to kill them fast enough. This is easier than you'd think, given the small number of seperate bays a Texas has.