to-hit rolls once TAG has been aquired

[GOTHIK]

so let's say I've established a tock with TAG ...
My TAG equiped vehicle is 5 hexes away from the target (Stinger) and My Archer is 12 hexes away.  Let's say there's 1 hex of light woods between the vehicle and the Stinger and two hexes of light woods between the Archer and the Stinger.
The vehicle cruised, the Archer ran, and the Stinger moved 5 hexes.

Would I want to use TAG in this situation?  Why or why not?
If I use it, how do I calculate the to-hit roll for the Archer?

Thanks for the help, guys!!!

[Ghostbear_Gurdel]

If you hit with the TAG and the Archer is carrying Semi-guided ammo for the LRMs, then when the Archer fires at the Stinger, the Stinger's movement is ignored. So effectively the Stinger stood still as far as the Archer is concerned.

[Maelwys]

If you're using Semi-Guided LRMs in the Archer, then TAGing the target allows you to ignore the target's movement modifier.

So you would calculate the to-hit number as normal for the Archer (+2 for 2 hexes of light woods, +2 for Archer running, +2 for medium range), but you would count the Stinger's movement as 0 (+0) instead of 5 (+2).

If the Archer was within range of its Medium Lasers, they wouldn't get the bonus, since TAG doesn't work for everything.

[GOTHIK]

If you hit with the TAG and the Archer is carrying Semi-guided ammo for the LRMs, then when the Archer fires at the Stinger, the Stinger's movement is ignored. So effectively the Stinger stood still as far as the Archer is concerned.

So the to-hit roll for the Archer would be:
Archers base + Archers mvmt + range btw Archer & Stinger + 2 hexes of light woods?

Also, do the missiles HAVE to be semi-guided ammo?  Let's say the Archer was a Warhammer ... could the PPCs be used in the same way?

[theothersarah]

Only a small number of special munitions benefit from TAG. Semiguided LRMs are one of them, as well as homing Arrow IVs, laser-guided bombs, and copperhead artillery rounds. There are a few more I'm missing I'm sure, but unguided and direct-fire weapons never benefit from it.

[Col.Hengist]

PPC's from the warhammer will receive no bonus from a tag.They aren't missiles.

[GOTHIK]

thanks for the answers, everyone.
I didn't mean to post a question that was already answered ... I guess I didn't see the message that another response had been posted while I was still typing Mine up.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Total Warfare and Tactical Operations are pretty explicit about what can benefit from TAG and what the bonuses are.

[DarkSpade]

Total Warfare and Tactical Operations are pretty explicit about what can benefit from TAG and what the bonuses are.

This part kind of confused me.  page 143  "If the to-hit roll is successful, the system designates the target for that turn's weapon attack phase; the target unit is designated for any number of attacks from any number of units using TAG."

My group has interpreted that as meaning a unit with TAG could make an indirect attack at an enemy "tagged" by another friendly even with normal LRM rounds.  We treated the attack as a normal indirect attack but without all the extra mods from(or to) the spotter.   Is that right or are we way off?

[Wolverine]

SAL is what TAG seems to be in todays terms,  SAL seekers can be fitted to a wide variety of weapons at reletively low costs (compared to a RF or EO seeker/sensor).   I don;t get the short TAG range tho, even lame TAG should outrange the targets they are painting !  I'd give TAG the same range as LRMS but give them a tougher to hit roll if they are on a mobile platform, that gives TAG infantry some edge as well.
J

[GOTHIK]

So it sounds like, even though TAG is legal as early as 3033 it's nearly useless until semi-guided missiles hit the scene in 3057.
The only benefit to fielding it prior to that year would be to eliminate the +1 modifier for indirect fire, right?

[theothersarah]

I thought you needed semiguided rounds to get any benefit from TAG when using LRMs. Is that not the case?

If TAG does indeed work with standard LRMs to eliminate the +1 indirect bonus then it's hardly useless! Especially since you don't need to care about spotter movement and shooting either.

[Col.Hengist]

Tag is useless with out the semi guided amunition or Arrow IV Tag guided munitions.

 I believe the semi-guided LRM ammo was made so the tag wasn't useless when the AIV carrier ran out of guided munitions.

This part kind of confused me.  page 143  "If the to-hit roll is successful, the system designates the target for that turn's weapon attack phase; the target unit is designated for any number of attacks from any number of units using TAG."

My group has interpreted that as meaning a unit with TAG could make an indirect attack at an enemy "tagged" by another friendly even with normal LRM rounds.  We treated the attack as a normal indirect attack but without all the extra mods from(or to) the spotter.   Is that right or are we way off?

 You may make any house rule you would like, nothing is stopping you.However, that not how it works.

[theothersarah]

Damn! That's what I thought but I really, really wanted to be wrong this time.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Semi-Guided LRMs are the only weapon in Total Warfare that are affected by TAG, but they're a late addition to what TAG was originally used for: Arrow IV Missile Artillery.

TAG was originally developed to be used in conjunction with Arrow IV Homing rounds by the Star League.  Post Clan Invasion, Copperhead rounds for tube artillery, Semi-Guided LRMs, and Semi-Guided Mortar rounds were also developed.

[willydstyle]

So it sounds like, even though TAG is legal as early as 3033 it's nearly useless until semi-guided missiles hit the scene in 3057.
The only benefit to fielding it prior to that year would be to eliminate the +1 modifier for indirect fire, right?

It only eliminates the +1 for indirect fire if the LRMs are semi-guided.

Another important aspect of the TAG/semi-guided combo is that it allows the TAG-firing mech to fire its other weapons  without incurring the additional +1 to hit for the spotting and indirect firing unit that a spotting mech firing its weapons usually incurs.

[Col.Hengist]

Narc is so much better...

[willydstyle]

Narc is so much better...

I think if you're playing TW level rules, NARC is better specifically for indirect fire.  However, the ability for semi-guided LRMs to ignore TMM is a pretty big boost to accuracy that NARC just doesn't give.  NARC also weighs a lot more and has explosive ammo.  Personally, I don't think either system is a great thing to base your strategy around.

[theothersarah]

Both ammo types make the Raven a fantastic companion for your missile 'mechs though ;D

[GOTHIK]

this sucks for scenarios prior to 3057.  :(

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Semi-Guided LRMs aren't widely distributed post 3057- the FWL is the only faction that produces them.

[monbvol]

Sort of.

Tech Manual kind of contradicts itself a bit.  The Federated Commonwealth are expressly mentioned as using TAG to help guide Laser Guided Bombs as early as the 3040s and yet the re-intro date for Laser Guided Bombs is listed as 3060 for the FWL.

Hell pretty much all the dates it lists for re-intro for bombs make no sense and there are a couple I'd argue that are listed as going extinct that really shouldn't have.

[ANS Kamas P81]

Throw it in the errata forum then, it's worth noting.

[willydstyle]

Semi-Guided LRMs aren't widely distributed post 3057- the FWL is the only faction that produces them.

Yeah, but if you're just playing the game, and want to have fun with semi-guided, who cares?

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

If you're playing in a game that's set at a particular time, one would assume that you're trying to keep things faction specific as well.

[theothersarah]

If you're playing in a game that's set at a particular time, one would assume that you're trying to keep things faction specific as well.

And if you love LRMs there's pretty much no better choice than the FWL anyways. Trebuchet, Apollo, Yeoman, Perseus A, and even the Patriot for on-board Arrow IV action. Plus access to the Raven ;D

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Well, this is certainly a notable occasion: someone mentioned the Yeoman with something other than derision.

[Weirdo]

If you're a FWL player, anything with as many LRMs as a Yeoman is a great 'mech. O0

Also, people are forgetting that TAG will also provide a -2 bonus for any orbital strike, even using ballistic or energy capital weapons. Given how huge an effect the MoF has on shots drifting, this will be a massive benefit ifwhen you miss.

[Jim1701]

If you're playing in a game that's set at a particular time, one would assume that you're trying to keep things faction specific as well.

Nope. :)

[theothersarah]

Well, this is certainly a notable occasion: someone mentioned the Yeoman with something other than derision.

The Yeoman is pretty much the Free Worlds League's love of LRMs manifesting itself in physical form. A congealed blob of LRMs with legs. If you like LRMs what's not to love ;D

Also, people are forgetting that TAG will also provide a -2 bonus for any orbital strike, even using ballistic or energy capital weapons. Given how huge an effect the MoF has on shots drifting, this will be a massive benefit ifwhen you miss.

...I don't think I want to be within 15 hexes of an orbital strike target. Even with the bonus. My insurance doesn't cover wrath of God.