Author Topic: Smoke Jaguar Domain  (Read 48356 times)

Wolf Lancer 4

  • CSO Pack Mule
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1398
  • Home of hand built Timber Wolves.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #30 on: 26 January 2011, 14:18:33 »
Its basically going to finish up the Clan Invasion and the other events between 3052 and 3062.  The cover art is going to be a scene from Sword and Fire if Im not mistaken.
From a 'Mech grave he rose, snarling
Ready to do battle for his vanquished Clan
Stalking the Falcon Khans, who would remake us
His actions, the Wolf incarnate
  -The Remembrance(Clan Wolf), Passage 412, Verse 10, Lines 9-12

Daishi411

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2173
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #31 on: 26 January 2011, 14:24:05 »
nice, that sounds like it should be pretty good, that was a pretty busy time storyline wise, thanks for the info
"Warriors, not war machines, are the backbone of the Hell's Horses. While others worship the BattleMech as the ultimate weapon, the men and women of this Clan see even this awesome piece of technology as the tool it is. We have held to this philosophy since the days of our first Khan, who knew that the value of the common soldier far outstripped the brute force of the BattleMech. It is one reason our Clan possesses fewer mechs than most, and has led many to underestimate our fierceness and courage. Our survival against all challengers when others have fallen proves the folly of such arrogance, and testifies to the wisdom of our founders."
- saKhan Tanya Delaurel
Star Captain Logan Cobb-666th Assault War Cluster, Star Commander Octavian-The Thunder Heart Cluster
Avatar by Shadowraven

Wolf Lancer 4

  • CSO Pack Mule
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1398
  • Home of hand built Timber Wolves.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #32 on: 26 January 2011, 14:25:38 »
Course since it was so busy it may not give as much info because of Historical Turning Points PDFs.  We already have one in that time period with the Falcon Incursion TP.
From a 'Mech grave he rose, snarling
Ready to do battle for his vanquished Clan
Stalking the Falcon Khans, who would remake us
His actions, the Wolf incarnate
  -The Remembrance(Clan Wolf), Passage 412, Verse 10, Lines 9-12

Nibs

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #33 on: 26 January 2011, 16:56:15 »
Dead clan is dead.

Well, save for the bits working for the Word, that is. There's a sotry I'd like to see.

Wait, what?  ???

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #34 on: 26 January 2011, 20:11:47 »
Some of the Jaguar survivors were placed in various POW camps or otherwise forgotten. The Word of Blake "liberated" them and turned them loose.

Blaine Lee Pardoe, author of Surrender Your Dreams, made it clear in that novel and one the forms when he was asked that the Jaguars were gone, that the Fidelis were not Smoke Jaguars, and that they would not become Smoke Jaguars even after being freed from their duties to the Republic of the Sphere.

In short, TPTB made it clear that the Jaguars were gone and would never be coming back.
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Daishi411

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2173
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #35 on: 26 January 2011, 20:14:53 »
i think he's referring to other free jags running around places, like the one in the flamberge fluff for example
"Warriors, not war machines, are the backbone of the Hell's Horses. While others worship the BattleMech as the ultimate weapon, the men and women of this Clan see even this awesome piece of technology as the tool it is. We have held to this philosophy since the days of our first Khan, who knew that the value of the common soldier far outstripped the brute force of the BattleMech. It is one reason our Clan possesses fewer mechs than most, and has led many to underestimate our fierceness and courage. Our survival against all challengers when others have fallen proves the folly of such arrogance, and testifies to the wisdom of our founders."
- saKhan Tanya Delaurel
Star Captain Logan Cobb-666th Assault War Cluster, Star Commander Octavian-The Thunder Heart Cluster
Avatar by Shadowraven

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1271
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #36 on: 26 January 2011, 20:34:14 »
Some of the Jaguar survivors were placed in various POW camps or otherwise forgotten. The Word of Blake "liberated" them and turned them loose.

They were kept there, by one of the scenarios in the Terra JHS. They and the Stoners were tearing each other up for awhile before someone asked "How often do Blakists fight by zell?" Turned out the SJs in the prisons killed their guards and took their equipment. They then surrendered and got shipped off by Stone.

The Snakes were having kittens about it. ;D
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Nibs

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #37 on: 26 January 2011, 20:56:20 »
All the more reason for me to get JHS: Terra. If I only had that precious substance known as 'currency'...

Wolf Lancer 4

  • CSO Pack Mule
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1398
  • Home of hand built Timber Wolves.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #38 on: 26 January 2011, 21:27:50 »
Currency is one of those things that is necessary yes. :-\
From a 'Mech grave he rose, snarling
Ready to do battle for his vanquished Clan
Stalking the Falcon Khans, who would remake us
His actions, the Wolf incarnate
  -The Remembrance(Clan Wolf), Passage 412, Verse 10, Lines 9-12

Jaim Magnus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7815
  • Assisting you and your enemies equally.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #39 on: 26 January 2011, 21:31:37 »
Blasted currency!  If only we were living in a 'Clan paradise' where all you desired was provided ;)
BattleCorps - Righteous Fury, Sorrow of Eden, Lady of Steel, I Was Lost, Forsaken : Legacy - The Forgotten Places : Shrapnel - Scavenger's Blood : ELH Chronicles - View from the Ground : Shrapnel - It Ends in Fire, Picking the Bones

Wolf Lancer 4

  • CSO Pack Mule
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1398
  • Home of hand built Timber Wolves.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #40 on: 26 January 2011, 21:32:30 »
That or you could declare a Trial of Possesion and just take it.
From a 'Mech grave he rose, snarling
Ready to do battle for his vanquished Clan
Stalking the Falcon Khans, who would remake us
His actions, the Wolf incarnate
  -The Remembrance(Clan Wolf), Passage 412, Verse 10, Lines 9-12

Jaim Magnus

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7815
  • Assisting you and your enemies equally.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #41 on: 26 January 2011, 21:37:06 »
It's definitely tempting...
BattleCorps - Righteous Fury, Sorrow of Eden, Lady of Steel, I Was Lost, Forsaken : Legacy - The Forgotten Places : Shrapnel - Scavenger's Blood : ELH Chronicles - View from the Ground : Shrapnel - It Ends in Fire, Picking the Bones

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1271
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #42 on: 26 January 2011, 21:41:30 »
Blasted currency!  If only we were living in a 'Clan paradise' where all you desired was provided ;)

You don't want what the Jags were "providing" to their people... :D
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Nibs

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1790
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #43 on: 27 January 2011, 02:42:14 »
That or you could declare a Trial of Possesion and just take it.

I don't know if I would make a very good warrior.

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #44 on: 27 January 2011, 03:29:34 »
Hard to do worse than the Jags did :P
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Marlin

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 114
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #45 on: 27 January 2011, 05:16:17 »
Someone did not pay attention it seems. Before half of the IS hunted them down, it was hard to withstand them.

Sheesh, what do they teach you in Monkey-sibkos these days?
Get to know the ultimate combined arms experience for the Battletech universe! See link below.

http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/board,105.0.html

Avatar by Bain.

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #46 on: 27 January 2011, 06:59:51 »
Quote
Someone did not pay attention it seems. Before half of the IS hunted them down, it was hard to withstand them.

Aside from Wolcott. And Luthien. And Tukayyid. And advancing the slowest of all Invading Clans. And capturing the fewest worlds of all Invading Clans. And getting hammered by the Combine for half a decade before Bulldog was even concieved. And getting what was supposed to be their flagship Galaxy destroyed on Wayside.

Clan Smoke Jaguar never had the strategic acumen of the Wolves, the military success of the Falcons, or the sheer stubbornness of the Bears. What they did have was heavy forces, and they were pitting them against the most technologically inferior of the Great Houses. Even then, they performed the worst of all Invading Clans.

Quote
Sheesh, what do they teach you in Monkey-sibkos these days?

That would be "the truth."
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Deadborder

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 7893
  • Technical Victory!
    • Elmer Studios Blog
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #47 on: 27 January 2011, 07:12:48 »
That would be "the truth."

Amen, brother. Amen.

let's be blunt here, the Jags have been romaticised to far beyond any actual accomplishments of their own. If they weren't deader than a can of spam, they wouldn't have half the following that they do today. They managed the least of any of the invading Clans, both during the invasion itself and their abject faliure to take advantage of their gains. Even then, they only started the invasion becuse they had backed themselves into a corner on the Homeworlds, managing to be one of the least successful of the clans. Yes, they had military power and strength, but that was all.

And the Jags have nobody but themselves to blame.
Author of BattleCorps stories Grand Theft Agro and Zero Signal



How to Draw MegaMek Icons the Deadborder Way. Over 9000 so far. Determination or madness?

Marlin

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 114
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #48 on: 27 January 2011, 09:33:44 »
I will be back at you defeatist stravag dogs later to show you the error of your ways.
Get to know the ultimate combined arms experience for the Battletech universe! See link below.

http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/board,105.0.html

Avatar by Bain.

Trajan Helmer

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1277
  • Better and calmer than you
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #49 on: 27 January 2011, 15:06:47 »
 [watch]
Anyone can redesign the Hellbringer's base chassis.  Real men work only with the pod loadout- Natasha K (forum poster)

Do not taunt Happy Fun Aegis. http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,42045.msg968574.html#msg968574

Marlin

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 114
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #50 on: 27 January 2011, 15:14:21 »
Lol... much later. I am not really an expert in Smoke Jaguars, but I will try an IC perspective. Any help is appreciated.

Ok now, from the start. In the BoK novels, Ulric acknowledges the Jags as the opposition to really test a Warrior's mettle.

Since Klondike, the Jags were badasses, rivaled by Kerensky's own Clan only. They took what they wanted and needed from the others.

Weakness? Strategically yes. But from a Warrior's perspective the way to go.

They were an Invading Clan. You know, the Wolves did not even need to fight for such a spot, thanks to Nicky :P, the Jags just smashed all that stood in their way. Others were reeling from this turnament still afterwards.

Then comes the IS. Advancind slowest? Not in my book. Against technological most inferior House? The Dracs got Star League Mechs from ComStar, how about that? I would say the Wolves had the easiest part with the Rasalhaagians. Period.

Wolcott: a trap, simple as that. The Jags were Warriors, not some Traders or criminals who so numerical were serving for the Dragon. The Officer responsible for the Disaster saw the consequences. Still thats hardly a big loss. The Bears, btw, got the smallest Corridor, no?

Then came Ulric, the Traitor and sent the Nova Cats as "reinforcements". Now fighting a Two Front war, they still swept through the Combine.

Luthien: There will come the strategic weakness into play. Add to that Hanse sent 7 Elite Regiments to Luthien, otherwise there was no chance in hell it would have held, even then, 4 or so Galaxies mauled all those pretty regiments, without Air superiority. Granted, a costly defeat.

Tuk, strategic problem, bidding away too much. Against a foe who knew all your weakness and had even time to study you from within, having huge troops at his disposal. Ok cannot defend so much there.

Hammered by the Combine before Bulldog? I would say a desperate House Lord tried Guerilla Tactics.

Still the Jags were seen as the big Cats on the Block.

So, despite being not gifted strategically, fact remains, they were the badasses of the Clans, taking what they needed, when they needed. That you must lose vs. the biggest coalition since Amaris is nothing to be ashamed of. (Esp. when all heroes of the IS come to get you.) Granted, they did not make friends with the Clans, but well, nothing that can be helped when you are big on the block.
« Last Edit: 27 January 2011, 15:37:16 by Marlin »
Get to know the ultimate combined arms experience for the Battletech universe! See link below.

http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/board,105.0.html

Avatar by Bain.

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1271
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #51 on: 27 January 2011, 15:32:35 »
Aside from Wolcott. And Luthien. And Tukayyid...

Nightward! Nobody else would dismantle a two-sentence IC post so thoroughly. :D

...but I will try an IC perspective.

How come?
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Wolf Lancer 4

  • CSO Pack Mule
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1398
  • Home of hand built Timber Wolves.
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #52 on: 27 January 2011, 15:33:20 »
Aside from Wolcott. And Luthien. And Tukayyid. And advancing the slowest of all Invading Clans. And capturing the fewest worlds of all Invading Clans. And getting hammered by the Combine for half a decade before Bulldog was even concieved. And getting what was supposed to be their flagship Galaxy destroyed on Wayside.

Clan Smoke Jaguar never had the strategic acumen of the Wolves, the military success of the Falcons, or the sheer stubbornness of the Bears. What they did have was heavy forces, and they were pitting them against the most technologically inferior of the Great Houses. Even then, they performed the worst of all Invading Clans.

That would be "the truth."

*clears throat*

Neg.

First off on the planet Wolcott the Smoke Jaguars were lied to which no matter how you put it DID influenece their loss.  This is where the Jaguars learned about the IS "honor."

On Luthien they were also teamed up with the Nova Cats.  They were also acting on Comstar intelligence which didnt know about the addition of 7 elite regiments to the world.  Simply put the Jags and Cats were heavily outnumbered and they STILL gave one hell of a fight and even a few forces made it into the capital city.

No defense from me on Tukayyid.  They swallowed a couple stupid pills on that one.

As for captruing the least amount of planets?  What does that have to do with anything?  They captured just a couple planets shy of what the Ghost Bears did.  And the Bears werent straddled with another Clan in their invasion corridor, nor did the Bears launch an attack on one of the  most heavily defended planets in the IS. 

As for the Draconis Combine being the least advanced in tech?  Are you serious?  The Draconis Combine received upgraded mechs from Comstar in the war of 3039.  I highly doubt the Draconis Combine was the least advanced in tech in the Inner Sphere.  I would look to the Capeallans before I even thought about giving that distinction to the Dracs.

Also the Jags did NOT advance the slowest of all the invading Clans.  That honor goes to the vaunted Ghost Bears.

You can also not degrade the Jags for their losses on Wolcott and Luthien.  The Falcons caught absolute hell on Twycross and even LOST a planet that they took during their invasion, which was Barcelona.  The Ghost Bears also had to call in reserve troops to help put down rebellions on worlds they had captured.

Overall the Jaguars did well during the invasion when compared to the other Clans.
From a 'Mech grave he rose, snarling
Ready to do battle for his vanquished Clan
Stalking the Falcon Khans, who would remake us
His actions, the Wolf incarnate
  -The Remembrance(Clan Wolf), Passage 412, Verse 10, Lines 9-12

Marlin

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 114
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #53 on: 27 January 2011, 15:53:52 »
Wolf Lancer, seems we have some thoughts that are equal. Sheesh. :)
Get to know the ultimate combined arms experience for the Battletech universe! See link below.

http://forum.mechlivinglegends.net/index.php/board,105.0.html

Avatar by Bain.

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #54 on: 27 January 2011, 18:19:52 »
Quote
They took what they wanted and needed from the others.

Yes, rather than developing their own infrastructure. This worked reasonably well while they were confined to the Kerensky Cluster, but was the source of virtually every problem they had once they expanded beyond it.

Quote
They were an Invading Clan. You know, the Wolves did not even need to fight for such a spot, thanks to Nicky , the Jags just smashed all that stood in their way. Others were reeling from this turnament still afterwards.

The Wolves were within a hair's breadth of winning at 4-1 odds against the most elite forces of the pro-Invasion Clans. Ulric killed two Ghost Bear Khans and repeatedly humiliated Leo Showers in battle. Had they bid and fought, they would have won a place- and likely ahead of the Smoke Jaguars.

Quote
Then comes the IS. Advancind slowest? Not in my book.

Clan Wolf took 85 worlds. Clan Jade Falcon captured 43. Clan Ghost Bear managed 38. The Smoke Jaguars managed to capture a similar amount of worlds to the Bears, and then promptly lost about a fifth of them to the Nova Cats. The Jaguars were also the only Clan with enemy-held territory in their Occupation Zone.

Leo Showers was so upset by the poor showing of the Jaguars compared to the other Invaders that he attempted to hamstring the Wolves and Bears over Rasalhague and was going to censure the Wolves for being too good at Radstadt, but for the rather spectacular intervention of Tyra Miraborg.

Quote
Against technological most inferior House? The Dracs got Star League Mechs from ComStar, how about that?

Continuity issue.

In the original, pre-Unseen timeline, the Inner Sphere at large had only "Freezers" (NAIS corrosive version), Listen-Kill missiles and the countermeasure to them prior to the Outreach Summit, at which point all the Star League technologies were disseminated and units were upgraded during the Year of Peace. As it was, the Combine suffered a critical shortage of the one item that makes the biggest difference in advanced technology- the Double Heat Sink. Even going into the Jihad, the Combine was mass-producing line 'Mechs still using Single Heat Sinks, the only house to do so on such machines.

Then the Unseen issue happened and many 'Mechs were stripped from the 3025/26 Tech Readouts, which were replaced by the downgraded, ex-SLDF machines.

Then there was the Historical: War of 3039 retcon, where it was revealed that all manner of advanced technologies were employed. Even so this clashes with the charts in Field Manual: Mercenaries Supplemental II which states unambiguously that a number of items had been perfected by that stage and should not have been in the -P format presented.

Advancements in technology make a lot more sense than overnight appearances, but the Blood of Kerensky series is quite explicit in the Inner Sphere having no conception of SLDF-era technologies, let alone Clan technologies based upon them. Hanse Davion, Victor Steiner-Davion, Justin Xiang Allard, and Kai Allard-Liao had to have the mysteries of things like Pulse Lasers explained to them (slowly) by Clovis Holstein at Outreach, despite all either having been involved in the War of 3039 or supposed to have studied it extensively in their military academies.

As a result, the continuity is a mess.

Even so, the actual downgraded machines the Combine recieved were vanishingly rare, on the order of about a battalion spread through the ~10 regiments of machines they obtained from ComStar. The native high-tech industry was poor, and the Free Rasalhague Republic enjoyed the support of the other Houses for their upgrade projects.

The Royal Kungsarme, despite numerous detractors, was supplied with the best chassis of the Draconis Combine and Lyran Commonwealth, and their units were no less skilled than the defenders of the Combine or Commonwealth. Given how well guerilla techniques worked against the Clans, it is hardly as though the Wolves were strolling to victory, and as the examples of them fighting AFFC units go to show, anyone who stood in their path was in for it.

Quote
Wolcott: a trap, simple as that. The Jags were Warriors, not some Traders or criminals who so numerical were serving for the Dragon. The Officer responsible for the Disaster saw the consequences.

Hohiro did not lie to the Smoke Jaguars. He baited them, definitely, and caused Dietr Osis to lose his head, but he also forwarded a complete dossier on all the forces at Wolcott to him. Names like Asano Narimasa would have definitely been in the ComStar files available to the Jaguars, never mind the Dragoon reports. That he chose to not investigate is his own problem.

Had another Clan sprung the same surprise, it would be hailed as a masterpiece of bidding, defeating the enemy even before the battle was commenced.

The same technique, it must be pointed out, was used elsewhere, with various units on FedCom worlds providing their MRBC or LCAF State Command ID codes rather than their unit names. It did not seem to slow the Falcons down very much.

Quote
The Bears, btw, got the smallest Corridor, no?

Smallest in volume, but densely-packed with worlds.

Quote
Then came Ulric, the Traitor and sent the Nova Cats as "reinforcements". Now fighting a Two Front war, they still swept through the Combine.

Actually, their Fourth and Fifth waves were the least impressive of all the Clans and they took the least territory of the Invaders. There was no "two-front war" going on, as the Nova Cats were either ceeded worlds or took them in limited-scope Trials concluded even before the Invasion was renewed.

Quote
Luthien: There will come the strategic weakness into play. Add to that Hanse sent 7 Elite Regiments to Luthien, otherwise there was no chance in hell it would have held, even then, 4 or so Galaxies mauled all those pretty regiments, without Air superiority. Granted, a costly defeat.

Others accomplished more with less. Have a look at the forces on Rasalhague or Twycross Phase II. The assembled Jaguar and Nova Cat forces were considered enough to defeat the original defenders of Luthien- and were deploying units far in excess of the 1 Cluster per Regiment ratio already well established. Full-Galaxy assaults by other Clans occurred against Regimental Combat Teams, not against the Forward-ARC units of the DCMS.

Put simply, the five Galaxy bid grossly overmatched the defending forces. It took the addition of the Kell Hounds and Wolf Dragoons to make it a fair fight.

Quote
Tuk, strategic problem, bidding away too much. Against a foe who knew all your weakness and had even time to study you from within, having huge troops at his disposal. Ok cannot defend so much there.

The Smoke Jaguars' problem at Tukayyid was not bidding or Focht, but command and internal discipline. Its forces were so bloody-minded that they were removing themselves from battle (like Elemental Bolin) and rushed the defending forces heedless of any kind of tactical, let alone strategic concern.

The "traitor" Ulric can solely be credited with the Jaguars' survival. He ordered them to retreat, and had that not occurred, all their forces would have been destroyed outright rather than merely shattered.

Quote
Hammered by the Combine before Bulldog? I would say a desperate House Lord tried Guerilla Tactics.

Guerilla tactics do not typically include confronting the enemy at their strongest and defeating them. Repeatedly.

The DCMS, with minor losses and minimal expenditure of material, was able to keep the Smoke Jaguars trapped at their post-Tukayyid strength for five years.

Quote
As for the Draconis Combine being the least advanced in tech?  Are you serious?  The Draconis Combine received upgraded mechs from Comstar in the war of 3039.  I highly doubt the Draconis Combine was the least advanced in tech in the Inner Sphere.  I would look to the Capeallans before I even thought about giving that distinction to the Dracs.

Again, depends on if you're going with the BoK or H: Wo3039 timeline. The Capellan machines in the original TR: 3050 are more advanced than the Combine's. Of the Great Houses involved in the Invasion, the Combine was the worst off. In all honesty, due to the support they were recieving from outside, theRoyal Kungsarme were at least their equal, perhaps even (however marginally) better.

Post Wo3039, debatable, though events still occur the way they played out in BoK regardless.

Ultimately, the Jaguars being seen as a threat was because they lied through their teeth about their strength and put on a good show. The truth, as revealed by Bird Dog, Bulldog, and Serpent, was somewhat different.
« Last Edit: 27 January 2011, 18:21:50 by Stormfury »
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1271
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #55 on: 27 January 2011, 22:32:05 »
Now that we're all sky-blue and crystal-clear that Nightward still gets sand kicked in his ice cream by the local Jag player, lets get back to business.

I bought ER:3052 yesterday, and I have a question on something. The 6th Dragoons are said to have taken the Dire Wolf from the Wolves during a "fabled Trial" that didn't kill any Wolves.  Where can I read up on said trial? 
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #56 on: 27 January 2011, 23:06:10 »
Quote
Now that we're all sky-blue and crystal-clear that Nightward still gets sand kicked in his ice cream by the local Jag player, lets get back to business.

Literally nothing in this sentance is correct.

Quote
I bought ER:3052 yesterday, and I have a question on something. The 6th Dragoons are said to have taken the Dire Wolf from the Wolves during a "fabled Trial" that didn't kill any Wolves.  Where can I read up on said trial?

If it is anywhere, it will be in TR: 3050U.
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Crimson Dynamo

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1271
  • Opening hearts, minds, and throats since 2807
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #57 on: 27 January 2011, 23:13:09 »
Literally nothing in this sentance is correct.

*Shrug* Whatever the reasons may be, then.

Thankee for the tip, tho. Yet another book to buy. ::)
"Well, I do, Marcus, and rule number one of the MAC has always been that the man with the plan leads. If we get shot up, I'm the first one to get my ticket punched. There are no flags in the MAC."
"And there never will be," Barton said, nodding his head in agreement.

"You guys are facing a freaking Shadow Division! These guys have strict policies against playing fair!"

"I don’t care. Kill them. I planned the defense so I know it will work. If they claim otherwise, they’re cowards. Any step back is a betrayal of me, and saying they don’t have enough men is just an excuse for incompetence and disloyalty. Tell the Krypteia to do it if you’re too soft but get it done." -Emperor Stefan Ukris Amaris I

Stormfury

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4429
  • Death couldn't stop me. How will you?
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #58 on: 27 January 2011, 23:20:53 »
Quote
*Shrug* Whatever the reasons may be, then.

The reasons are pretty clear, and were all spelled out. In addition to that, the Chatterweb, Periphery, and Successor State boards here are all explicitly out of character. The IC boards are down south.
Mordin Solus: We need a plan to stop them.
John Shepard: We fight or we die. That's the plan.
Ashley Williams: Wow. That's the plan? Is it just me, or did Shepard have better plans before he died?
Urdnot Wrex: Silence! This is the best plan anyone, anywhere has ever had!
Garrus Vakarian: Yes! I AM SO THERE I AM THERE ALREADY!
Tali'Zora vas Normandy: *Facepalm*

Alan Grant

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2391
Re: Smoke Jaguar Domain
« Reply #59 on: 11 February 2011, 14:26:31 »
Do we know what happened to the Liam Ismiril Bloodname? The Clan's first saKhan?

It's not an exclusive name, and as far as I can tell, it hasn't appeared anywhere else. I find it a little odd that a founding saKhan's line seems to have disappeared somewhere without mention. Unless I've missed something.