Wars of Reaving, who do you think survives?

[Southern Coyote]

I wouldn't necessarily put the Mandrills in that mix, but I agree with the Viper-Coyote Alliance.  I could see the Scorpions jumping in on that one...

[E. Icaza]

I wouldn't necessarily put the Mandrills in that mix, but I agree with the Viper-Coyote Alliance.  I could see the Scorpions jumping in on that one...

Like I said, it is mostly hope.  It'll probably be the Star Adders (aka the House Davion of the Homeworld Clans   :D).

[TheOldGuy]

Where's the option to select Ice Hellions?

Alas!

That being said, I expect the Mandrills and Spirits to disappear, after that I'm not so sure.

[Stormlion1]

I see the Adders trying to fight everyone at some point, they think there big enough. Though I don't see them trying to absorb any of the other Clans, maybe Annihilate a few. Probably get the rest of the Clans to jump them and have a nice all out war ending with the destruction of the Adders. My bet is that it will be such a huge fight the Clan system itself may fall apart. I don't see any of the Homeworld Clans coming out of it unscathed. Mandrills I'm betting will be gone as would be Cloud Cobras, with whatevers left of the Spirits, Coyotes, and Vipers being fractured and possibly dropped to an almost 3025 existance, ie: few operational jumpships, no warships, and mechs themselves becoming mich rarer. Honestly I see many parts of this being pushed by the scientists, with it all getting out of hand quickly.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

That being said, I expect the Mandrills and Spirits to disappear, after that I'm not so sure.

Same here. I expect the Mandrills and Spirits to vanish but apart from that I won't predict anything. There was a DA mention of 'those two Snake Clans' too, but there's no telling what that really means and which two Clans it's talking about.

There are enough hooks and angles that BT storylines can and do run against the surface odds, so analysis from the info we got right now is really just going to be guesswork IMHO.

[Neufeld]

Where's the option to select Ice Hellions?

Alas!

Ah come one! Do you really expect them to survive after all that happened to them in the Jihad?

As for my own choices, well, Coyotes, Adders and Vipers, with the Scorpions highly contesting a slot. Why? Well, all the three clans are big and not likely to go down easily. Vipers especially, but also Coyotes, has more than average mech designs, so it is likely that they will be kept. Adders in alliance with the Cobras seems to be too big to take down. The Scorpions, well they are the most likely to be able to stay out of much of the conflicts.

[Gäiten]

I do not see any of the known remaining Home Clans in their actual form survive.

IMHO, for the Homeworlds there is something very new in the pipeline, TPTP is so  :-X , there must be something thrilling behind the Interstellar Iron Curtain.

[Deadborder]

Bearing in mind that, from Blood Avatar, the spirits are known to be an extinct clan, which kind of puts the nail in that coffin.

I'd like to see the Mandrils survive, however, the weight of evidence is against them.

[Johnny 'NKH' Leyland]

They may survive in some weird Absorbed form, you never know. Clan Star Mandrill, here we come!

[Fatebringer]

I did put a vote in for Goliath Scorpion, however.

They may be small, but they know how to work together and are fearless. Also as a Raven, I have to respect their navy ;) They have a decent fleet that on a good day could probably take the Adders.

[Stormlion1]

Bearing in mind that, from Blood Avatar, the spirits are known to be an extinct clan, which kind of puts the nail in that coffin.

I'd like to see the Mandrils survive, however, the weight of evidence is against them.

Not sure how much fact one can get from a book set something like 60 years after last contact was made with the Homeworlds.

[Diablo48]

They may be small, but they know how to work together and are fearless. Also as a Raven, I have to respect their navy ;) They have a decent fleet that on a good day could probably take the Adders.

That is a very good point.  With the presumably mounting tensions in the homeworlds I would expect naval battles to become more common which would seriously shift the balance of power in favor of the more reclusive Clans with heavy naval/aerospace assets who can better protect themselves from the gathering storm.

[Hellraiser]

yeah it's already been said that mandrill bondsman aren't really a hit with other clans. the spirits and a certain kindraa are close, but they will most definitely not absorb the 'mandrils' and that's assuming a lot

The one thing that might happen to the mandrils besides outright getting toasted via civil war & absorption is that specific Kindra might be absorbed by the clans those kindra are allied with.

At least that is a thought I had.

So Kindra A likes the Horses,  B likes the Spirits,  C likes the Coyotes,  D likes the Ravens,  etc etc,  So they get picked off 1 by 1 or one dies and the rest ally up w/ friendly clans.
Kind of a really big Harvest Wars situation.

[Daishi411]

The one thing that might happen to the mandrils besides outright getting toasted via civil war & absorption is that specific Kindra might be absorbed by the clans those kindra are allied with.

At least that is a thought I had.

So Kindra A likes the Horses,  B likes the Spirits,  C likes the Coyotes,  D likes the Ravens,  etc etc,  So they get picked off 1 by 1 or one dies and the rest ally up w/ friendly clans.
Kind of a really big Harvest Wars situation.

this is what i was thinking to, but that's not what he was talking about, and so i addressed his post directly, and if you read the post, he doesn't discuss separate kindraa

[Pa Weasley]

They may survive in some weird Absorbed form, you never know. Clan Star Mandrill, here we come!

I've said it before, it's Battletech. Factions don't die, they just evolve into something completely unrecognizable.  8)

[Alan Grant]

I could see the end result in many cases resembling the Fire Mandrills. One Clan absorbs what's left of about 3. You have what look like "Kindraa" within each Clan, but they used to be Clans themselves.

[Arkansas Warrior]

I can't see the Spirits or Mandrills making it.  The Coyotes hate the Adders and Cobras.  The Scorpions and Vipers strike me as pretty aloof and less involved in bickering with the remaining Homeworld Clans.  The Adders have many enemies, but are probably strong enough to take on any two enemies.  But between the Burrock/Dark Caste issues, Spirits, Coyotes, and Scorps who want the Moreau bloodname) I think they get pulled down like a bear fighting wolves.  Probably live long enough to take the Spirits with them.  Without the Adders to help them, the Cobras cannot stand.   The Mandrills fracture and are taken apart piecemeal.  That leaves the Warden Trinity, the Vipers, Scorpions, and Coyotes.  Which also neatly explains why there've yet to be any incursions from the Homeworlds during the DA.
 
 
 
Honestly though, I can see the Adders making it, but the more I look at it, the more I see the Vipers and Scorpions making it.   Since I also (perhaps due to bias, admittedly) think the Coyotes are just too strong to destroy unless they overextend themselves (and they've never seemed that aggressive...until they kicked everyone off of Babylon, anyway), that means the Adders have to go, unless the Vipers or Scorpions get heavily involved and rouse someone's ire.

[Neufeld]

OK, I have myself toyed with this scenario, but:

I can't see the Spirits or Mandrills making it.  The Coyotes hate the Adders and Cobras.

Agree.

The Scorpions and Vipers strike me as pretty aloof and less involved in bickering with the remaining Homeworld Clans.

The Scorpions yes, but the Vipers have their own manifest destiny stuff going on.

The Adders have many enemies, but are probably strong enough to take on any two enemies.

Agree.

But between the Burrock/Dark Caste issues, Spirits, Coyotes, and Scorps who want the Moreau bloodname) I think they get pulled down like a bear fighting wolves.

The problem here is that of those four you listed, only two are real issues: Spirits and Coyotes. I just can not see the Adders making a big issue keeping a single bloodline, if dropping it reduces the numbers of enemies when pressed by one. As for Burrocks, they are hated by Spirits, and the traditionalists Vipers, Coyotes and Scorpions would smack them hard if they tried to separate from the Adders, so it would be in the Burrocks own interest to not rock the boat.
I just can not see the needed dogpile happen, and I also can not see the Cobras switching sides.

Coyotes/Vipers/Scorpions/Spirits vs Adders/Cobras sounds a bit too neat.
For a more implausible theory, how about a Society alliance with Coyotes/Adders? (Yes sounds unlikely, but both clans seems to have acted a bit strange lately.)

Probably live long enough to take the Spirits with them.  Without the Adders to help them, the Cobras cannot stand.   The Mandrills fracture and are taken apart piecemeal.  That leaves the Warden Trinity, the Vipers, Scorpions, and Coyotes.  Which also neatly explains why there've yet to be any incursions from the Homeworlds during the DA.

Except the those two snake clans quote, which does not fit. Good analysis, but too neat.
 

Honestly though, I can see the Adders making it, but the more I look at it, the more I see the Vipers and Scorpions making it.   Since I also (perhaps due to bias, admittedly) think the Coyotes are just too strong to destroy unless they overextend themselves (and they've never seemed that aggressive...until they kicked everyone off of Babylon, anyway), that means the Adders have to go, unless the Vipers or Scorpions get heavily involved and rouse someone's ire.

Around in a circle we go, four left, who will find a chair when the music stops?

There are several mysteries still will muddy the issue:
- There is supposed to be three main storylines in the Wars of Reaving, but which ones?
- How does the ilKhan election figure into this?
- What exactly did the Mandrills start and get smacked down for?
- Why did the Adders attack the Ravens?
- Who kicked out the Horses from the Homeworlds?

[Hoovie]

They may be small, but they know how to work together and are fearless. Also as a Raven, I have to respect their navy ;) They have a decent fleet that on a good day could probably take the Adders.

I'm interested to see what TPTB do with the Scorps in the WoR.  It honestly seems to me that the Scorps would watch everything start to go down and say "Well, we're out of here.  Pack up the museum boys time to get out of this neighborhood.  Wonder what the Ravens are up to?" 

In order to get the Scorps to commit, one of the other clans would have to seriously and purposefully provoke us.

[Fear Factory]

The problem here is that of those four you listed, only two are real issues: Spirits and Coyotes. I just can not see the Adders making a big issue keeping a single bloodline, if dropping it reduces the numbers of enemies when pressed by one. As for Burrocks, they are hated by Spirits, and the traditionalists Vipers, Coyotes and Scorpions would smack them hard if they tried to separate from the Adders, so it would be in the Burrocks own interest to not rock the boat.
I just can not see the needed dogpile happen, and I also can not see the Cobras switching sides.

The Burrocks don't need to rock the boat.  They are successfully coexisting with Clan Star Adder.  Also, Clan Burrock wouldn't give a crap about Clan Blood Spirit, they have literally beat the snot out of them with every chance they got.  With all the info I gathered I would hardly think of Clan Burrock as a bunch of pushovers.  I think the Adders, Burrocks and Cloud Cobras could be up to something because they have worked together in the past (Tanite Worlds).  Also, there's a little mention in the Cloud Cobra section of FM:WC that says Burrocks joined one of their Cloisters.  If the Burrocks are anything like their totem, they are going to dig deep and destroy the foundation, so to me, a Dark Caste effort is not shocking in the least.

Think of this though.  I'm pretty sure Clan Blood Spirit knew about Burrocks hanging out in Cloud Cobra cloisters.  Why would they choose to become allies with Clan Cloud Cobra?

[Neufeld]

I'm interested to see what TPTB do with the Scorps in the WoR.  It honestly seems to me that the Scorps would watch everything start to go down and say "Well, we're out of here.  Pack up the museum boys time to get out of this neighborhood.  Wonder what the Ravens are up to?" 

In order to get the Scorps to commit, one of the other clans would have to seriously and purposefully provoke us.

I think it would spice things up a little if the Scorpions moved to the Rim Collection or Marian Hegemony, the Coyotes moved to FWLs southwest Trinity worlds, and the Spirits joined up with the Taurians.

[Daishi411]

I think it would spice things up a little if the Scorpions moved to the Rim Collection or Marian Hegemony, the Coyotes moved to FWLs southwest Trinity worlds, and the Spirits joined up with the Taurians.

i never want to see this happen, nor do i ever think it will happen. i think most people have made their opinions quite clear, and that not every clan needs to be associated with and IS/periphery power, and in some of your cases it simply won't work.

[Fear Factory]

i never want to see this happen, nor do i ever think it will happen. i think most people have made their opinions quite clear, and that not every clan needs to be associated with and IS/periphery power, and in some of your cases it simply won't work.

Ditto.  I would hate this more than some Clan Wolverine revenge on the Homeworlds cop-out.

[ShockaTime]

i never want to see this happen, nor do i ever think it will happen. i think most people have made their opinions quite clear, and that not every clan needs to be associated with and IS/periphery power, and in some of your cases it simply won't work.

yeah I agree with this. the rim collection are former RWR worlds, I can't think of anything the Marians and Scorps have in common. the Trinity worlds are a new age pseudo wild west type thing, and the spirits wouldn't join up with anyone with the whole isolationist policy they have going.

[Stormcrow]

Ditto.  I would hate this more than some Clan Wolverine revenge on the Homeworlds cop-out.

As April Fools Day jokes go, that one was pretty good. A good amount of efort was put into it.

[Col.Hengist]

Bearing in mind that, from Blood Avatar, the spirits are known to be an extinct clan, which kind of puts the nail in that coffin.

I'd like to see the Mandrils survive, however, the weight of evidence is against them.

 So where exactly in that book does it say there is no longer a bloodspirit clan? Does some one say something like "there is no longer a bloodspirit clan"?.

 Nibs,I love how you put it.

 My vote for survivers is spirits,vipers and yotes.

[Grand Titan]

Good question. first, we can say that there is 3 clans that's make the best candidates - The Star Adders (the strongest HW clan), The Coyotes (knack for survival) and The Goliath Scorpions (They don't have any real enemies, and they are some kind of outsiders). But....


I suspect that the Adders and the Coyotes will be gutted from within - remember that there are some rumors (according to ISP2) that the burrocks didn't absorbed too much in their new clan, and some of them still connected to the dark caste, and still see their former clan alive. Maybe to adders will succumb to some kind of inner clan civil war... but that just an assessment..

Same for the Coyotes, but with the Scientist caste raising its head. Inner clan strife is possible, but there is another option - that the coyotes will be taken by the scientists and will made the strongest HW clan (The Pariah fluff hints that in someway..).

The Scorpions are have a good chance for survival because they don't seem to put themselves inside the clans' power games. They are just the loonies who looks the SL relics and drinking necrosia. I don't think any clan will spend time to absorbed them.

The Steel Vipers are also good candidate - Furious ex-invading clan with enough combat experience to become a major power in the HW.

[Southern Coyote]

The only thing I'd disagree with you on in that post is the Adder-Burrock situation.  The Adders have proven themselves too far sighted to let something like that happen.

[Urban Kufahl]

They may survive in some weird Absorbed form, you never know. Clan Star Mandrill, here we come!

The Clan Goliath Coyote equiped with 200 tons omni :

chassi type : quad
speed : 2/3
- 20 tons battle armor bay
- 10 tons liquide cargo (filled with a Necrosia/Peyotl mixture) for the pilote ONLY !

tonage left a max of armor/weapons

[roosterboy]

Bearing in mind that, from Blood Avatar, the spirits are known to be an extinct clan, which kind of puts the nail in that coffin.

I'd like to see the Mandrils survive, however, the weight of evidence is against them.

So where exactly in that book does it say there is no longer a bloodspirit clan? Does some one say something like "there is no longer a bloodspirit clan"?.

She ticked them off on her fingers. “The sword: we know that’s World of Blake. But that red heart, it’s not a heart. I think it’s a teardrop, a red teardrop, or maybe some sort of sun-disk. The only thing that fits is the symbol of this old, isolationist Clan that died out years and years ago. They were called Clan Blood Spirit, and get this. The only name I could find in the database references a nonexclusive Bloodname: Zadok.” She spelled it, then said, “Kodza. It’s an anagram.”

(my emphasis)