What are the worst rules in Tactical Operations? And why?

[Hipsu]

Hello. I've recently acquired the Tactical Operations book. I'm not afraid of complicated or excessive amount of rules if they enhance the game in a good way (I play Advanced Squad Leader too and that comes with a big rules BINDER so I'm used to it).

I played a couple of MegaMek games and basically enabled EVERY advanced rule they have to offer. I find MegaMek a good tool for learning rules because if forces you to play them correctly. I did notice that many of the TacOps rules are not available in MegaMek, at least not yet, so I haven't have experience with them.

Overall I've been enjoying the rules additions, except for a couple which I really don't like. It left me with an impression that since every rule in TacOps are optional, it's left to the players to separate the wheat from the chaff. I'd like to hear from the community if there are rules that are generally not used for one reason or another and I'd like to hear why.

Here's some rules I didn't like:

Engine Explosions (p.77)
(Wasn't this supposed to be impossible according to the lore?)
Sure, big explosions are fun, but I think the chances of it happening is way too high (need 10 with 2d6). I've only played a couple of games using this rule and already I'm dreading engaging in close combat or being in vicinity of other Mechs altogether. I could see myself enjoying the rule if the chances were way smaller (need 12). But right now... nah.
On the other hand I'm cool with the similar Ammo Explosion rule.

I hear it was Stackpole who came up with these majestic Mech explosions but I haven't yet read so far. This surely never happened in the Gray Death stories.

Woods Cover (p.84)
I tried this once. Never again. I'm not too keen on Mechs turtling in Heavy Woods being immune to everything but the biggest weapons. Or even in Lights Woods being immune to SRMs etc. Sure you can reduce the woods eventually in that hex, in which case you just move to the next wooded hex. Not my idea of fun. Ugh.

Energy Weapons and dialing down their damage and heat (p.102)
I REALLY don't like what this does to the game even though I do appreciate the idea behind it. Here's three reasons why I don't like it:

1. The more you dial them down the more heat efficient the weapons become. This way any mech can be tuned to be heat efficient and over all more efficient than without this rule. I believe this actually lessens the depth of this game and also makes the traditionally hot mechs just boring.
2. It slows down the game when you're constantly fine tuning and optimizing the damage/heat values. "So this turn I walked instead of running, so I can increase the damage of my other PPC by one...". Besides I don't recall the pilots in the books constantly fine tuning their weapon values, although I do admit I've only read four books so far. I do remember them constantly running hot and cursing not being able to fire that PPC in the fear of overheating.
3. Munchy McMunchkin

[Neufeld]

Fractional Accounting, (p. 376)

Having alternate game rules is mostly fine, even if there are some that I disagree with. Having alternate construction rules opens up a bigger can of worms, especially if it is not clear from the start that a fan-made unit is constructed with fractional accounting.
It feels too much like cheating when all units are not constructed according to the same construction rules.

[I am Belch II]

Trying to figure out how to build a Mobile Structure!!

[Taharqa]

I think it is hard to argue that the double-blind sensor rules are not the worst rules. I appreciate the idea but they are so insanely complicated that I cannot imagine someone trying to use them on a tabletop game with even a moderate number of units per side. Plus there are strange rules decisions, like the medium and long range bands being exclusive of the lower range bands. And now given the errata, MagScan sensors can see through hills which makes them the no-brainer in all situations except for urban maps.

[Matti]

EVADING (MOVEMENT MODE), pages 18-19

Apparently any unit can do it. But only 'Mech can't fire weapons when doing it

[ANS Kamas P81]

Engine Explosions (p.77)
(Wasn't this supposed to be impossible according to the lore?)

I hear it was Stackpole who came up with these majestic Mech explosions but I haven't yet read so far. This surely never happened in the Gray Death stories.

Yeah, it was Stackpole (hence the nickname) that wrote it; first time I saw it was in the Warrior trilogy - I recall the Kell Hounds taking on an AWS leading a group of Punts around, and the Awesome's 'controlled star licking out' and taking at least one of the PNTs with it.

[Hipsu]

EVADING (MOVEMENT MODE), pages 18-19

Apparently any unit can do it. But only 'Mech can't fire weapons when doing it

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand. Could you explain again? Evading movement looks like an ok addition to me. Get a better cover with the cost of not being able to attack that round. Seems ok to me...

edit: hmmm, are you talking about how it uses the word "unit" at first but then changes it to "mech"? Seems like the writer wasn't paying attention. Anyways that bit about not being able to shoot still refers to units, not mechs.

[Fallen_Raven]

None of the rules in Tac Ops are required, you can pick and choose. I personally dislike the engine explosion rules (mostly because my group goes out of their way to try blowing up engines).

The Ghost Targeting rules just get out of hand quickly. One 'mech with ECM can shut down a company that doesn't have any, and there really isn't a counter against it that doesn't come from hardware.

[Hipsu]

None of the rules in Tac Ops are required, you can pick and choose.

Yes, obviously. I'd still like to discuss about them and learn about the really bad ones instead finding out the hard way. Your input about the Ghost Targeting rules was valuable to me. Thank you.

[False Son]

The Ghost Targeting rules just get out of hand quickly. One 'mech with ECM can shut down a company that doesn't have any, and there really isn't a counter against it that doesn't come from hardware.

It is still based on the shooter's Piloting Skill, right?  Don't have the book in front of me.


I'm not a fan of burt fire MGs.  It could have been handled like RACs with the generic Rapid Fire Weapons rule, maybe even without the unjam roll.  Burst fire as it is seems really forced as well as overpowered for a 6 BV gun.

Reckless movement is another one.  Not a fan.  Rushing made easy.

[rlbell]

Yeah, it was Stackpole (hence the nickname) that wrote it; first time I saw it was in the Warrior trilogy - I recall the Kell Hounds taking on an AWS leading a group of Punts around, and the Awesome's 'controlled star licking out' and taking at least one of the PNTs with it.

It is one of the self contradictory areas of the fluff.  If the fusion plants fused D-He3, then the reaction could happen in a block of ice, and reactors would need shielding, but not lots of containment.  Fusing protons only happens at high temperatures.  If you want lots of power from a small amount of fusing protons, even with other factors enhancing the fusion reactions, you need a very hot plasma.  The power outputs of lasers and gauss rifles require megawatts of power from only kilograms of plasma, and that plasma is at such a temperature and pressure, that an opened reactor will vent plasma with the force proportional to a ruptured locomotive boiler. 

[Arkansas Warrior]

EVADING (MOVEMENT MODE), pages 18-19

Apparently any unit can do it. But only 'Mech can't fire weapons when doing it

Well a tank, for example, has multiple crew members.  While the driver concentrates on evading, the gunner can concentrate on shooting.  In a mech one guy has to do it all, and I can see how he/she might struggle to drive and shoot at the same time.

[Fallen_Raven]

It is still based on the shooter's Piloting Skill, right?  Don't have the book in front of me.

Defender makes a roll of Piloting +2. Success mean that MoS is applied to a Piloting roll by the Attacker. If the Attacker fails the roll, add the MoF to all attack rolls for that turn. Each Attacker rolls separately against the Defenders MoS.

[evilauthor]

Fractional Accounting, (p. 376)

Having alternate game rules is mostly fine, even if there are some that I disagree with. Having alternate construction rules opens up a bigger can of worms, especially if it is not clear from the start that a fan-made unit is constructed with fractional accounting.
It feels too much like cheating when all units are not constructed according to the same construction rules.

This is an artifact of fractional accounting once having been the DEFAULT assumption when constructing mechs and vehicles. You'd see Endosteel and XL Engines all the time with 0.25 or 0.75 at the end of their tonnage values. A later rules patch forced construction to round up to the nearest half ton, resulting in certain artifacts like the Clan Timberwolf losing half a ton of pod space (its Primary Config used to have a second ER Small Laser).

Also? The Savannah Master is IMPOSSIBLE to build without fractional accounting.

In short, Fractional Accounting used to be legal, which is why it's now available as an optional rule.

[Kit deSummersville]

Sprinting...

...in conjunction with the MM Bot. It just sprints most of the units around the board and you can kill them at your leisure. Which is a pity, because sometimes I like I be able to sprint.

[MadCapellan]

EVADING (MOVEMENT MODE), pages 18-19

Apparently any unit can do it. But only 'Mech can't fire weapons when doing it

"An Evading unit generates 2 Heat Points Points per turn, in addition to the standard 2 Heat Points for running, and may not make any attack during the turn it used Evading movement."

No unit may fire while evasively moving.  The restriction on 'Mechs is against spotting for indirect fire or performing other attack equivalent actions, which makes sense, because the Mechwarrior is one individual, as opposed to a whole crew of guys.

[Neufeld]

Also? The Savannah Master is IMPOSSIBLE to build without fractional accounting.

Huh? The Savannah Master is tournament legal.
0.5 ton structure
1 ton engine
0.5 ton control
0.5 ton lift
1.5 ton armor
1 ton laser
= 5 tons
Nothing requiring fractional accounting that I can see.

[evilauthor]

Huh? The Savannah Master is tournament legal.
0.5 ton structure
1 ton engine
0.5 ton control
0.5 ton lift
1.5 ton armor
1 ton laser
= 5 tons
Nothing requiring fractional accounting that I can see.

Ah? Sorry. I have the original TRO3026, and the specs for the SM have fractional accounting figures everywhere.

[SCC]

Hand Held weapons, 315, the sort of things people would want to build with them (fluff style BattleMaster) can't be build and things get really weird at times (an Axman -8X picks up a hatchet dropped by a -1N and needs both hands?) Lots of possibly, but not really useable

[Jackmc]

Fractional Accounting, (p. 376)

Having alternate game rules is mostly fine, even if there are some that I disagree with. Having alternate construction rules opens up a bigger can of worms,

The incredible irony here is that the construction rules as they stand now were the alternate rules and Fractional Accounting was the original and there was a tremendous amount of headaches and changes due to the adoption of the alternate rule.

-Jackmc

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I never really understood why Fractional Accounting or the way in which FF armor values got calculated were changed.

[StoneRhino]

Sorry, but I didn't quite understand. Could you explain again? Evading movement looks like an ok addition to me. Get a better cover with the cost of not being able to attack that round. Seems ok to me...

edit: hmmm, are you talking about how it uses the word "unit" at first but then changes it to "mech"? Seems like the writer wasn't paying attention. Anyways that bit about not being able to shoot still refers to units, not mechs.

Evading movement is a powerful addition to a game. "Oh, your ac20, srm spamming design isn't in range yet? You got a good pilot in there you say? Oh, sure let me make sure my units apply some lubricant first....no?" Even if the "cannot fire" part only applies to mechs it still can be countered by LBX fired vehicles. "Can't move no more? Evasive what?". Lets face it, you are not going to use it with designs that do not need to get into short ranges and those that need to get short range are not going to be able to fire most of the way there. Most designs are going to cancel the perceived negative.


As for the stackpole, that is the worst rule possible. Light clan mechs with heavy lasers become suicide bombers. Evade a turn or two, with high movement mods, get in close and shoot people in the back with small heavy lasers when you cannot detonate. Detonate and kill absurd amounts of tonnnage for nothing. Yeah, thanks stackpole..thanks a lot.  >:( the michael bay of bt writers.. >:D

[evilauthor]

I never really understood why Fractional Accounting or the way in which FF armor values got calculated were changed.

The way FF armor values was changed? I never understood why FF armor was calculated by using percentages rather than a straight AP per ton increase, especially given the drive for "simplicity" in the construction system.

[vidar]

Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(Satckpole,  >:(

And did I say Satckpole,  >:(
I like my light mechs, and like scouting/recon but this rule turns them into bombs.  Walking bombs that want to take large amount of damage.  Not the right use of recon units. 
Other than that I like all the rules in tacops.   

[epic]

The woods cover rules.  I use nearly all of the Tac Ops rules, but having woods make SRMs completely useless - as well as LB weapons - was just way too frustrating.  I only played it once. 

I'm still undecided on weight class physical attack modifiers. 

I actually REALLY enjoy burst fire MGs.  First of all, it actually means that 3025 mechs with those MGs actually can run out of ammo at the same time they enter the repair bay.  Bug mechs actually get a new lease on life.  Admittedly I have yet to have a Solaris VII style game with an MG array alpha strike which would be ... interesting...

[epic]

Oddly, I actually rather enjoy Stackpoling.  There are too few ways to completely destroy a mech anyways in my opinion - destruction of ct by either ammo explosion (which in most eras now is prevented by CASE) or area effect (aka artillery) being the only other methods.  Otherwise, there's always lots of salvageable material. 

Stackpoling - which, btw, doesn't happen THAT often even with lots of engine hits - means that my players get a bit less salvage AND are a bit more terrified to always close to close combat range.  Staying even 1 more hex away reduces the damage to a manageable level (especially with a light mech). 

Yeah, I know it makes no scientific sense.   Still, I like seeing and imagining big explosions.

....  (how can you tell I served in an artillery formation in my younger years?)

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

epic want big boom?

[Jim1701]

The incredible irony here is that the construction rules as they stand now were the alternate rules and Fractional Accounting was the original and there was a tremendous amount of headaches and changes due to the adoption of the alternate rule.

-Jackmc

That is your opinion and if you actually like it that's fine but IMHO fractional accounting is and was always a disgusting mess.  Good riddance as far as I am concerned. 

[epic]

epic want big boom?

you better believe it.   O0

[Fallen_Raven]

Yeah, thanks stackpole..thanks a lot.  >:( the michael bay of bt writers.. >:D

As far as I recall, Stackpole only blew up one 'mech with a reactor breach. And that was an intentional bomb used to trigger a sympathetic detonation of the explosives on the walls of a canyon. I'm pretty sure the "Stackpole" rule itself comes from players wanting more devestation in their games.