'Mech of the Week: WHT-** Whitworth

[Belisarius]

The Whitworth is an amazing mech. In its main configuration (LRMs), it sits well in the company of Archers, Crusaders, Warhammers, Marauders, Awesomes, Stalkers, you name it. My best use of it in recent memory is as an Archer-substitute for medium brawling lances with Enforcers, Centurions, and the occasional Vindicator. Teams like this, particularly when they all jump and have the terrain in their favor, can put a serious hurting on even heavy enemy lances through shrewd combinations of indirect fires and rotating units into cover to present new armor while focusing fire.

That said, with the single-heatsink problem, the most promising of the upgraded versions is lackluster at best. The Capellan version, while cute, is a one-trick pony; best used, as has been pointed out, to deprive a combined-arms player of his supporting arms. In the same role, I would tend to use a whole bunch of BadgerDs and carry along some BA for good measure.

[Cowdragon]

It's ugly and that's why I love it. The fact that it's a pretty decent (intro tech) mech is icing on the frosting.

[JadeHellbringer]

That said, with the single-heatsink problem, the most promising of the upgraded versions is lackluster at best. The Capellan version, while cute, is a one-trick pony; best used, as has been pointed out, to deprive a combined-arms player of his supporting arms. In the same role, I would tend to use a whole bunch of BadgerDs and carry along some BA for good measure.

A good idea, if you have Badgers, but the Capellans don't use the Badger. This is a fine replacement (other than the SHS and those thrice-damned IJJs!)- and remember, Fa Shih can ride a Whitworth thanks to their magnetic clamps if you really want that BA along for the ride!

[Fallen_Raven]

I think some of the issues that some players have with the Whitworth comes from looking at medium and light 'mechs as the fast elements for a force. In that light, of course a 4/6/4 movement profile is too slow. But if you look at the Whitworth and other 4/6/? mediums as the cheap massed produced filler, they look like a good option for supporting Warhammers, Marauders, and Thunderbolts.

Just a thought I wanted to share.

[Ian Sharpe]

Fantastic mech.  I've never felt let down by the Whitworth.  Its a perfect fourth mech in medium lances and up for me.  Works well with so many other designs in the 3025 era.  Past that, I feel its time is done, athough it can still soldier on in LRM lances/companies, esp paired with heavier designs.  I've always felt the Hellspawn fluff, about how its a Dervish replacement, applied much more to the Whitworth.  Two LRM-10s, 3 lasers, its a Whitworth.

[garhkal]

If you're coming at it from a "five point minefield" perspective, you're doing it wrong.  It's a "four hex minefield". ^-^

Or two twenty pointers, or one five pointer and a fifteen pointer.!

[Breetai]

The 3025 SRM variant is actually a phenomenally good close-range city brawler, and if you pair it with something that has a heavy-penetration weapon it's great for crippling the internal systems of 'Mechs twice its size. It's a tougher, slower, harder-hitting Javelin in that respect.

Regardless, either 3025 variant could be improved out of sight for regular battlefield use by losing the jumpjets and a half-ton of armour in exchange for upping the engine to a 200.

[billtfor3]

The 3025 SRM variant is actually a phenomenally good close-range city brawler, and if you pair it with something that has a heavy-penetration weapon it's great for crippling the internal systems of 'Mechs twice its size. It's a tougher, slower, harder-hitting Javelin in that respect.

Regardless, either 3025 variant could be improved out of sight for regular battlefield use by losing the jumpjets and a half-ton of armour in exchange for upping the engine to a 200.

Losing the Jump Jets defeats a lot of its mobility.  I'd slow a Mech down by 1mp to have JJs. 

The Whitworth itself is a great little Mech.  Pair it with a Thunderbolt, Warhammer, or as covering fire for a Hunchback.  When the LRMs run out it still has a potent close range punch as well.

[Cowdragon]

It would be nice to keep the thing more relevant. What if the overall speed was increased to something like 6/9/6? Would this be enough to keep it competitive? Or should it stay slow and sturdy (it's real advantage so far)

[Ian Sharpe]

It would be nice to keep the thing more relevant. What if the overall speed was increased to something like 6/9/6? Would this be enough to keep it competitive? Or should it stay slow and sturdy (it's real advantage so far)

You end up with the Hell's Pawn, supposed Dervish replacement, which should be the Whitworth replacement.  Even the weapons are very similar(2 LRM-10s, 3 medium (pulse) lasers.

[billtfor3]

I think an XO would make it to vulnerable, even at 6/9.  I'd rather use tonnage savings to keep the speed profile and upgrade the LRM launchers, and stay as an indirect fire platform.

[Cowdragon]

Good points. I posted over on the Battlemech Design Forums a version that stays slow and sturdy, but is hopefully more relevant on a modern battlefield. Predominantly fire support, although it does have a close-in punch.

[Diablo48]

I think some of the issues that some players have with the Whitworth comes from looking at medium and light 'mechs as the fast elements for a force. In that light, of course a 4/6/4 movement profile is too slow. But if you look at the Whitworth and other 4/6/? mediums as the cheap massed produced filler, they look like a good option for supporting Warhammers, Marauders, and Thunderbolts.

Just a thought I wanted to share.

This is exactly how I look at designs like this on the modern battlefield.  Yes they are kind of junky, but they are a cheap way to fill out a heavier formation without loosing too much capability.  They can do about half the job of a full sized fire support 'Mech while their larger and more dangerous allies keep attention off the fragile little guy.

Honestly, using the Whitworth as a pocket heavy like this is much less of a stretch than my UrbanMech upgrade where I swap to a LGR and call it an assault 'Mech. :D

It would be nice to keep the thing more relevant. What if the overall speed was increased to something like 6/9/6? Would this be enough to keep it competitive? Or should it stay slow and sturdy (it's real advantage so far)

Unless you push it up to 7/11/X it is really not going to get enough from that speed to be really valuable so I would keep it slow.  I actually just dumped a new variant in your thread which goes the other way by dropping the jets MLs, and some armor to increase the size of the LRM racks and ammo reserves to make it more dangerous on the modern battlefield where the missiles are really all that matter.

[SCC]

Losing the Jump Jets defeats a lot of its mobility.  I'd slow a Mech down by 1mp to have JJs.

I'd only be happy with that if still had a lot of MP's left, 2/3/2 is worse then 3/5/0

[JadeHellbringer]

I think some of the issues that some players have with the Whitworth comes from looking at medium and light 'mechs as the fast elements for a force. In that light, of course a 4/6/4 movement profile is too slow. But if you look at the Whitworth and other 4/6/? mediums as the cheap massed produced filler, they look like a good option for supporting Warhammers, Marauders, and Thunderbolts.

Just a thought I wanted to share.

Exactly. It's a support unit, and so it doesn't have to be quick- it just has to be able to keep up with the units it's supporting.

It makes a great companion (and vice versa) for classic trooper Mechs like the Centurion and Enforcer as well. A couple of Whitworths lobbing missiles while a couple of Enforcers move to provide direct fire is a nasty combination.

[Belisarius]

I'd only be happy with that if still had a lot of MP's left, 2/3/2 is worse then 3/5/0

At that low movement level, I agree with you. At 4/6/4 vice 5/8/0? Less certain. At 5/8/5 vice 6/9/0? I'm pretty certain the jumpjets win hands down.

[FedSunsBorn]

From the Intro box set, I fell in love with the Whitworth and often teamed it with the Enforcer as both had an identical movement profile and both complimented each others weapons sets quite nicely.

Later on, I added the Blackjack and the Hunchback as excellent complimentary units.

Of course, after 3025/3039 becomes 3050+, this old standby had gone by the wayside for the most part....sad really.

[Cowdragon]

From the Intro box set, I fell in love with the Whitworth and often teamed it with the Enforcer as both had an identical movement profile and both complimented each others weapons sets quite nicely.

Later on, I added the Blackjack and the Hunchback as excellent complimentary units.

Of course, after 3025/3039 becomes 3050+, this old standby had gone by the wayside for the most part....sad really.

It would be neat to start designing mechs that work together in something other than a C3 Network again. The intro-tech was nice for this. Get a Blackjack and a Hunchback together, and you had a great little team. What about doing something like this with slightly revamped, yet cheap variants on the old classics? Take an upgraded Whitworth for fire support, and pair it with an upgraded Enforcer or Centurion for close-support and you have a decent militia or pirate hunting group. Go with 4 total, and even poorer planets could afford a lance for protection, and they wouldn't be half bad!

[blitzy]

I played a campaign once with a friend, and during the course of the campaign, I lost the legs on the Whitworth (a 3050 model).  Ironically, the miniatures legs also were damage when he was transporting it.  As I was the only one using it, he was gonna throw the mech out, I got him to give it to me and cleaned it up and attached it to a set of Dasher legs I had, he was so impressed with it I got to create the mech in-game too.

I tend to agree though, in 3025 its a solid trooper mech, but in the 3070's I wonder about the effectiveness of the newer upgrades.

[klinktastic]

I've had good experiences with the Whitworth WTH-1.  The best is with the original design to strip the ML off the head for more armor to thicken it up a bit.  As noted, it's not designed to be a trooper, and with the LRMs, it's best off lagging behind the rest of your forces that are moving into brawling range.  If you've deployed it properly, it shouldn't be threatened too much, and should be able to support your brawlers at range.  It's actually a nice compliment to 3025 firesupport 'Mechs like the Rifleman, Archer, Maruader, etc without getting too expensive in the form of both C-bills and BVs. 

The brawler versions of the 'Mech are pretty much fail.  Post 3050 though, it leaves a lot to be desired.  Since it only every had the 10 SHS, upgrading to DHS doesn't save you any weight, nor does it make your bracketed fire more effective.  DHS + Endo could help it out, but the canon designs really don't take advantage by leveraging the weight savings into anything value adding. 

[Demon55]

A pair of Whitworths WHT-1s and a pair of Panthers work well together. 

[Kit deSummersville]

I find that the WHT-2 follows that common issue of designing for the last war. A great idea for the 3rd Succession War to keep a rare 'Mech around, it loses a lot of ability to help the unit when the clans are pounding you.

[Diablo48]

I find that the WHT-2 follows that common issue of designing for the last war. A great idea for the 3rd Succession War to keep a rare 'Mech around, it loses a lot of ability to help the unit when the clans are pounding you.

True, although against the long range of Clan weapons it is not a terrible idea to do whatever you can to boost your long range firepower.  Besides, you probably have plenty of other short ranged designs to pull bodyguard duty that would be nothing more than big fat targets otherwise so the loss of the lasers is not the end of the world.

[garhkal]

If one takes all the short range stuff out, keeps the 4/6/4 XL engine one can get a very decent long range plinker as it can pack a Gauss rifle with 3 tons of ammo, or a pair of LRM-15s with 3 tons of ammo to share.  If you also go to Endo, you can put 2 Medium lasers back in (or er mediums), or give the LRMS artemis.

[iamfanboy]

Quite honestly, the 'essence' of the Whitworth's worth to me is its ability to fight evenly well at long AND short range - unlike a lot of 4/6/x 'Mechs in the medium category. That's why I'm not a huge personal fan of the SRM versions, or the two variants that sacrifice the short-range firepower for LRM enhancements. It works well in the weight category during the SW era because it's a mini-Archer, or mini-Catapult if you prefer.

I feel the strongest enhancement is the WHT-K version with MMLs and ERMLs, though it desperately needs double heatsinks. If only dropping them in was a simple refit, requiring only a 'Mech bay in a DropShip.... Wait! IT IS! Hurrah!

[Nahuris]

I use them up through the dark ages myself --- the original 3025 design with 2 LRM10's and 3 medium lasers.
I may use NARC equipped missiles and rely on my something else to fire the NARC beacon, but I have yet to have a Whitworth fail me.
Even at 4/6/4, most battlefields are small enough that the 21 hex range means you are able to still support.

This is one of the few designs that was done well enough, that you should just leave it alone.... "it ain't broke, so don't fix it"

Nahuris

[Belisarius]

Agreed. I don't see another way to pack that much long range fire and short range fire onto the same chassis at that speed with that much durability.

[UnLimiTeD]

I found it quite interesting to behold that the entire article doesn't mention the weight of the mech a single time.  ::)

[Marveryn]

I found it quite interesting to behold that the entire article doesn't mention the weight of the mech a single time.  ::)

40tons :P   or heavier then a urbanmech lighter then a phoenix haw.

[Kit deSummersville]

And bigger than a breadbox.