An IS Succession Wars era game, how to approach LosTech?

[Garner]

Hi everyone,

Following on from my previous thread, I'm still coming to grips with the setting after having been a fan from the sidelines for a while. I have some questions about how to approach LosTech in a Succession Wars RPG.

I'm reading through the early novels (Grey Death Legion 1-3, Warrior Trilogy, Wolves on the Border) to help establish tone and possibly provide some reference points for a campaign that would culminate in the events around the 4th Succession War if the players get into it. In doing so, I've struggled a little bit with the occasional inconsistency and I can't tell where it's "first novel" syndrome, pioneering cannon before everything was bolted down, or just my shoddy reading skills.

In my mind, I sort of imagine that the Inner Sphere of 3025 has a bit of a dark ages vibe - not as strongly as Fading Suns, but still with that tripartite division of society into 'those who fought, those who worked, and those who prayed.'  MechWarriors, serfs, and ComStar respectively. Is this a good mentality to hold to, or should I be looking at it more as a 20th/21st Century society, with more flexible social structures and a higher standard of day to day living, but with a privileged few having access to the highest tech of Mechs and JumpShips?

And regarding those lucky few... If we look at certain sword and sorcery RPGs, sooner or later it's more or less a given that players will have access to incredible artefacts and powerful magic. Just how often should a group of heroically inclined characters in the BattleTech universe stumble across the equivalent cache of lostech? I understand that the Bounty Hunter's Marauder in this era has working double heatsinks and ER PPCs when most 'ordinary' Mechwarriors are struggling to keep their mechs in working order, but maybe I'm overestimating the collapse of Star League tech?

Lastly, assuming that allowing players to stumble upon a cache of parts or materiel out in a forgotten periphery world is at least semi-plausible, how big of a challenge would they face to actually *use* any of it? If they find a bombed out factory site that used to produce double heat sinks, and the warehouse has a few surviving examples that managed to escape destruction, could a competent Tech manage to refit a 3025 mech to use them? I'm thinking of much smaller finds than the Helm Memory Core here, and probably without a comprehensive instruction manual to go with them.

Any advice or instruction is greatly appreciated.

[guardiandashi]

to start with I am going to suggest there is a huge dose of "it depends" involved

3025 tends to have quite a few contradictions in place, on 1 hand you have some advanced worlds who while they don't necessarally have fusion power plants in every private vehicle are still pretty well off in many aspects.  these will tend to be core worlds that never got attacked much, and in some cases "factory worlds"

you then have a range of fair worlds these either have crumbling infrastructure, (leftover advanced systems that are gradually failing due to "lost tech" IE the municiple fusion reactor relies on a kdy128p plutonium space modulator to do "something" they only have 2 left, the one in use that is working at ~75% efficiency, and a spare that was pulled because it was at 50% efficiency and there were concerns that it could fail at any time, unfortunately no one knows how to make another one and all attempts to obtain a replacement have failed....

or the other case of mid grade is this is wher ethey "stabalized" after the disruption of the wars

the last set is the low worlds these tend to be places where people barely squeek by, or all the sterio type "you might be a red neck if... " types are

[bear]

limit their intial mech choices to level 1 mechs.  Most of these level 1 units have a level 2 version that the players could then find the parts or equipment needed to upgrade their mechs.  but not all at once or all the players at the same time.

"In my mind, I sort of imagine that the Inner Sphere of 3025 has a bit of a dark ages vibe - not as strongly as Fading Suns, but still with that tripartite division of society into 'those who fought, those who worked, and those who prayed.'  MechWarriors, serfs, and ComStar respectively. Is this a good mentality to hold to, or should I be looking at it more as a 20th/21st Century society, with more flexible social structures and a higher standard of day to day living, but with a privileged few having access to the highest tech of Mechs and JumpShips?"
i disagree with the divison of society here.  each House has a heeditary royal family, but there has never been any mention of a serf class outside of the Draconis Combine and that is still more a japanese culture thing.  Capellan peple have to earn their citizenship and the chance to do military training.  but the other Houses if yo can pass the tests toget in the academies, you cn become a soldier, and a mechwarrior.

m thoughts on a campaign, the players are new cadets posted out in the periphery and the start stumbling across their advanced technology while fighting other troops or pirates.  At different points they could be given the choice to strike out on their own as a merc unit, or continue on as House troops.

most jumpships are owned by corporations, well established large mercenaries, or governments.  very few privately owned.  even dropships are not normally owned by individuals.  that could be a whole arc of your campaign story:  the players have to acquire a dropship or be stranded by the House when they retreat

[phoenixalpha]

A lot of the IS during the late SW is severely damaged especially the border/factory worlds. Line units are held together with bailing wire and spit. Jumpships are the pinacle of lostech and so are dropships.

If you are travelling through the IS be prepared for huge discrepencies world to world, even planetary travel can be a culture shock when a lot of the planets are farms and light industry whilst surviving capitol cities may be functioning treasures of SL tech (none of it military as that wouldve been scraped together and used in earlier SW armies). Whereas the SL era had fusion based travel - anything with a mechgrade fusion engine would've had it ripped out and replaced with a lower tech item, so power levels may be spotty, thousands if not millions of items scrapped for want of a simple repair.

Mechs are rare, mechwarriors are arrogant "feudal knights" who can command healthy money levels just by dint of having a 300 year old family heirloom that still works. SL era tech is almost non existant. If you find such items dont even think of attaching them to your machines cause everyone will want it from your employers, your house lords, enemy forces and not forgetting ComStar who take an almost patholgical interest in SL tech showing up. Most of them wont want that kind of tech falling in to the "wrong hands" (ie anyone else's but theirs) so if you do have an ER PPC - I'd sell it asap, cause you'll have everyone and their mums chasing you down to take it from you - preferably in such a way that it doesnt cost them a lot (ie you dead) in haggling expenses.

[Garner]

Thanks guys,

Bear, I probably shouldn't have used the word 'serf,' as it has a much more precise meaning. I only meant that you see a middle and working class that doesn't have much chance for advancement on some of these worlds. Trellwan and Helm both seem to operate on a fairly 'tied to the land' approach, where the 'peasantry' are transferred along with the title deeds/leases to the worlds in question... but this isn't to say that they don't individually have alternatives to make their own way in the universe or advance themselves, is that a fair assessment?

[Frabby]

and not forgetting ComStar who take an almost patholgical interest in SL tech showing up. Most of them wont want that kind of tech falling in to the "wrong hands" (ie anyone else's but theirs) so if you do have an ER PPC - I'd sell it asap, cause you'll have everyone and their mums chasing you down to take it from you - preferably in such a way that it doesnt cost them a lot (ie you dead) in haggling expenses.

I'd disagree with that notion. Only Successor Lords, high nobility and Stackpole characters are important enough to see ComStar's black side. Player characters aren't.
99.999% of the time, ComStar is an actually neutral arbiter and everything else what it says on the cover. Single lostech finds have always occurred, and don't attract the order's ire. It's only big picture stuff such as salvageable WarShips, entire libraries and new universities that ilicit a negative response - and even that will happen with deniable assets. ComStar will never be involved, and will always be friendly and helpful to players.

[phoenixalpha]

I'd disagree with that notion. Only Successor Lords, high nobility and Stackpole characters are important enough to see ComStar's black side. Player characters aren't.
99.999% of the time, ComStar is an actually neutral arbiter and everything else what it says on the cover. Single lostech finds have always occurred, and don't attract the order's ire. It's only big picture stuff such as salvageable WarShips, entire libraries and new universities that ilicit a negative response - and even that will happen with deniable assets. ComStar will never be involved, and will always be friendly and helpful to players.

Yeah..... well..... I think we'll disagree on that subject. I didnt say ComStar wasnt seen as a neutral force (or even a good force in some backward parts of the IS) but you pop up with a couple of SL era mechs in top spec I think ROM will take an unhealthy interest. Not that they are going to show up and say "Hi we're your local ROM operatives... can you give us your lostech please?" but think on getting your hands on a couple of brand new, never used ER PPC's.  You work for House Davion and intend to sell those babies to the NAIS.... yeah I can see that getting up ComStar's nose.

Remember Operation Holy Shroud never really stopped.

[Diamondshark]

My guess is that ComStar won't mind if some poor house/merc unit finds an LB-10X or two, or maybe even some DHS, because it will be destroyed soon enough in the natural course of things. If they find a company of Royal mechs, or try openly selling them, especially to anyone who could reverse-engineer them, or if a prominent enough unit finds them (e.g. the Kell Hounds), there might be some trouble.

[Garner]

So, ignoring for a moment that the universe centres on the PCs, just how likely is it to stumble upon an LBX-AC10 or double heat sink?

I realize this is probably the wrong question to ask, but just how much lostech is out there waiting to be found, say in 3025?

[Diamondshark]

Probably not much by then. Granted, they have found stuff as late as the 3070s, but unless you're willing to go into the distant periphery, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[phoenixalpha]

So, ignoring for a moment that the universe centres on the PCs, just how likely is it to stumble upon an LBX-AC10 or double heat sink?

I realize this is probably the wrong question to ask, but just how much lostech is out there waiting to be found, say in 3025?

Almost nil I would say. Anything easily found was probably found. Anything that isnt easily found would be a lostech treasure trove and buried way out in the boonies. You're more likely to stumble upon a SL cache (say after a catastrophic planetary earthquake) full of mechs/equipment than you are the odd double heat sink or LBX10 (and said ammo to use it) in a bargain bin at the local junkyard.

[Garner]

Okay, so, hypothetical situation:

My group is mostly used to D&D, a game system that measures character advancement, in terms of power and progress, with loot as well as experience points. Your gear makes you better at being you.

Assume that one or more of the players dump a significant chunk of their XP pool into the various Vehicle traits, enough to start play with a custom heavy or even assault mech. Others might be happy to go with a roll on the RATs for any old light mech, and others might not bother with the Vehicle traits at all.

Do we need to adjust our expectations about how the game will play out? Should the people who start with a Marauder or Battlemaster expect to get better gear? Should any of them expect to get better *components* or just better *mechs*?

Especially considering this is likely going to start out in 3025, what sort of 'wealth progression' mentality should we have before we really get stuck in?

[Frabby]

Our RPG group back in the day evolved thusly:

1) Start out as characters from the same planet, an Oberon Confederation world. Whoever you are on your world, in the OC's armed forces you're just a small sausage. It may be a honor and the greatest thing on your homeworld to be a MechWarrior, but effectively it means you're shipped around on OC dropships to various raids.
Over time, the player unit forms inner cohesion (the characters learn to work with one another, MechWarriors, aerospace pilots, techs) and gains strength through salvaging bigger or better 'Mechs, gains a better reputation, gets higher-profile missions.
Eventually, they're a heavy/assault lance and oftentimes get a bunch of tanks or infantry at their disposal for strike missions.

2) Oberon Confederation becomes wary of player unit's reputation and performance, and hires them out on increasingly hazardous missions. Sooner or later the players realize that they're being sent on suicide missions, and will (have to) revolt. At this point, they stole a Leopard in our game and hired a commercial JumpShip to move them out. Now you have a mercenary lance plus support, and your players feel all like they earned it.

3) From here, give them mercenary missions. Cleverly designed missions will soon drive home the point that bigger isn't equal better. Our group learned the hard way that a Stalker is all good and well, but can only defend one possible target at a time and moves way too slow to bring evasive hit-and-run attackers to battle. By this time, the characters may have chosen personal goals to pursue - revenge against someone, enough money to swap the Leo for a Union, that sort of things. Just be careful to make sure there's always lots of room to grow, keep the power creep low and don't be afraid to cut them back when they screw up (but don't be unfair when they perform well or simply have lucky dice).

[monbvol]

To actually address the new question at hand:

If a character does invest heavily in Vehicle and Custom Vehicle, then that will tend to detract from how well they can use said Vehicle or perform non-Vehicle related tasks.

The character generation method of AToW is rather different than any d20 I've come across.  As such some expectations may have to be adjusted.

When it comes to measuring power by gear that isn't going to work out too well in 3025.  Lostech isn't going to be common enough to really risk in battle.

An Assault mech does look very powerful on the face of it.  They are supposed to be the moving wall of steel that absorbs damage and dishes it out.  Doesn't make them the final solution of mech combat though.

Things I'd watch out for are more than if someone tries dumping a lot of their points into Vehicle and Custom Vehicle are if not everyone can participate and the Special Pilot Abilities.  The first can happen very easily if not everyone has the Vehicle trait.  If you do intend to focus the campaign on Vehicle based combat I'd suggest making sure everyone has some amount of the Vehicle trait and the ability to operate their Vehicle.  For the Special Pilot Abilities I'd recommend mostly reading up on them, especially familiarizing yourself with their costs and requirements.  They can add some very powerful capabilities so make sure that you can apply their drawbacks.

[Garner]

You can tell I'm a complete newb because I keep forgetting the SPAs exist...  :o

[monbvol]

The SPAs and Natural Aptitude traits are the easiest to forget about despite being some fairly potent choices to make.

Another thing to be aware of is how easy it is to skill lock a Mechwarrior.  What I mean is there is only one Mechwarrior in a mech in most situations and as a consequence they only have so many actions to take before they can't do anything else that turn.  It can be a useful way for a GM who is being mindful of what constitutes each type of action to keep a handle on things but as I hinted at earlier it is easy to go too far and ensure that they can't effectively fight their mech.

[bear]

Probably not much by then. Granted, they have found stuff as late as the 3070s, but unless you're willing to go into the distant periphery, I wouldn't get your hopes up.

not true.  The stuff is out there but you either have to stumble over it or really search for it.  Snord's Irregulars found a dropship full of mechs, the Gray Death Legion found a Star League depot that no one knew about.

a lot of SLDF bases were built underground and entrances were well hidden.  Players would have to spend some time hunting for clues to a location, ad then find the site and hope that no one else has found it.

[idea weenie]

Your idea of a bombed out factory is a useful one.  Just include a reason why nobody else has gotten to the stuff yet, and you should be good.

One idea might be where they find ~200 Double Heat Sinks, but only 10-15 can be made in good working order (the others have decayed due to several centuries).  The rest will wind up getting sold to Comstar (who will pay a nice amount of money), or you can have your techs scavenge parts from some to make other good ones (figure 5-6 scavenged to create 1 good one).

So you would have your techs doing the following:
1) go through all the Double Heat Sinks to find out which ones can actually work
2) refit one or two of your Mechs with these new Heat Sinks
3) Have final battle against enemy (where these new Heat Sinks really make a difference)
4) Debate selling the rest as scrap to Comstar, or trying to convert the remaining ~185 into 30-35 good ones and the rest is little more than scrap metal.

Since Double Heat Sinks are so effective, I'd tend to avoid this.  A better option might be Ferro-Fibrous armor, as it will eventually get used up by enemy fire.  It will serve to replace damaged armor on existing Mechs, and the extra 12% armor will help out nicely (or take it easy on the players and say it provides 18 pts armor per ton).


Items that are less 'active' should be more often found.  Fusion plants would be extremely rare (they have all the other structures needed to convert power from the engine into moving the Mech, plus control and cooling systems), while armor, internal structure, Gauss ammo, etc would be easy.  You could even have fun with them, where they find a bunch of metal spheres with some paperwork, and think nothing of it.  They later have to fight an enemy Mech that is armed with a Gauss Rifle, and after winning, realize the spheres are Gauss ammo, while the paperwork likely went with the Gauss as well (maintenance booklet?).

Basically, the more expendable it is, the more free you should be to letting the players find it.  Similar to D&D, where you can let them find potions, exploding arrows, and one-use scrolls easily, but finding a better weapon or armor will be much more rare.

[Redman]

IMO the closest real life analogies for the societies of successor states are the great powers of the pre-WWI era. The major inspirations being:

• Federated Suns: Victorian era Great Britain
• Lyran Commonwealth:  Imperial Germany
• Draconis Combine: Imperial Japan
• Capellan Confederation: Qing-dynasty China mixed with with imperial russia and and a hefty dose of communism
  

The Free Worlds League is probably the hardest to classify as it has not a single dominant inspiration but I think i can make out aspects of Austro-Hungary and the Osman Empire (multi-national state), Holy Roman Empire (a realm that is fractured into a large number of souvereign member-states) and even the roman republic ("elected" military leader who de facto also acts as head of state).

Of course these are not hard rules but only guidelines and there are other inspirations like the post-apocalyptic aspects that were so prominent in the early fiction and the still present feudal aspects.

[Acolyte]

One interesting thing that I've done in previous campaigns is to let them find Star League that is functionally - as in game stats - no different than lvl 1 gear. If you do a good enough job at pimping "LosTech" as magnificent then players will use it, and even brag about it to others (in character). "I shoot him with the Star League PPC in my right arm!" I tend to give these items all kinds of non rule benefits like making maintenance easier, making them slightly more compact (the PPC still takes 3 spots, but it's roomy for the tech to work on and it fits right), etc.

For true Star League advanced tech, I'd limit it to weapons, or to Mechs that can easily be converted to 3025 tech when they get shot. Endo Steel and XL engines are very hard to fix. FF armor just get replaced with standard, albeit less.

One note as to ComStar. They love for people to find LosTech. It's great, especially if it happens to be weapons. They want people to club themselves back into the dark ages, and a cache of weapons helps that to happen. The only thing you're going to have a problem with is if you find a technical manual with it. That they'll try to destroy. Remember, Precenter Rachan was more than willing to give Lord Garth all the mechs in the Helm stockpile - he just wanted to retrieve/destroy the library. As long as what you get is the physical item, and not the means to understand it, they don't care.

   - Shane

[monbvol]

There are weapon specific Design Quirks in StratOps referenced in AToW and that could be a great way of slipping some extra capability to something in these caches without having to worry about changing any stats.

[guardiandashi]

you can also give weapons bonuses and then have the bonuses "not active"

example the true magna hellstar ppc's are an improved ppc design unfortunately the primary mech that uses them have a serious design flaw, that negates the full potentual of the weapon.

if used to maximum effect a magna hellstar ppc requires a direct plasm feed tap from the fusion reactor, unfortunately the technology for compact fusion reactor taps has been lost so the tap conduits will NOT fit through the arms of marauders and have been replaced with high capacity power feeds, 

a true magna hellstar ppc weighs 6 tons takes up 2 crits, generates 8 heat when fired and does 12 damage, range is per standard ppcs

the  standard as used magna hellstar due to the loss of the plasma tap feeds needed to make the weapon work, instaid mount a plasma generator with the ppc  unfortunately this plasma generator is somewhat inefficient, and generates 2 heat to generate enough plasma for a 10 point blast through a magna hellstar ppc, and this generator weighs 1 ton and takes 1 crit, due to the fact that all production magna hellstars have the plasma generator tightly attached (few realize it is not an intregal required part of the weapon including the factory workers MAKING the ppc's) this detail has been essentually lost to the ages.

[Garner]

Thanks everyone,

Much to think about... still, we're a long way off yet from even getting the campaign off the ground.

[FedComGirl]

Unless your characters are one of the few in the know, your campaign takes place long enough after Helm to have heard about Comstar's actions, or they're just naturally suspicious of them, they're going to take everything they can carry, and plan to come back for the rest. Whatever they can't use they can sell for lots of c-bills. They're not going to know that Comstar's going to be out to obtain or destroy those items and obliterate were they were found.

That being said, the most useful items are those that they can install themselves in a mech bay. If they need a factory to install them, they're more likely to sell unless its a small factory they can hire out. Weapons that require ammo have limited usefulness. Once you run out of ammo the weapon isn't any good except to sell. Double Heat Sinks, FF Armor, and Energy weapons are going to be the favorites to keep.

Now if your characters do know about, or at least suspect, Comstar they can still get away with using things. LB-X ACs using solid rounds aren't going to draw too much attention.  Opponents will just figure you got a lucky shot when you hit them at range. Same with ER energy weapons. Using Ultra's will make other think your lucking with rapid firing your AC. Double Heat Sinks can be used and no one will suspect you have them unless you're consistently operating way over where the red line should be. Otherwise they'll just think your either very good at riding your heat curve or you've managed to fit in a couple more heat sinks unnoticed by using cosmetics. Armor isn't a problem either. It'll get worn off eventually and if your mech doesn't quite look like it should that's kind of normal. MASC, your sprinting or using a super charger.

I'm not sure using Beagle Active Probes would be noticed or not but Guardian's might. However, there were other ECMs available so someone might figure you've managed to get one of Free World League versions or a Capellan EW System.

The big tip offs are Gauss Rifles and Pulse Lasers. Those scream Lostech. So will using an XL engine. The engine itself isn't so noticeable but all the extra tonnage you've mounted on your mech will be.  Eventually people will hear about it and investigate. If they confirm you are using lostech they'll make offers to buy or contract your unit to study the equipment. Groups will also be trying to steal or destroy it before others can get it. That happens and you're definitely going to want to increase your security. You'll also need to decide to go with someone bigger who'll help protect you or go it alone. Of course that can be prevented if you leave no survivors. If your unit goes that rout unleash heck but be prepared for getting a blood thirsty reputation.

[Gustav Kuriga]

One interesting thing that I've done in previous campaigns is to let them find Star League that is functionally - as in game stats - no different than lvl 1 gear. If you do a good enough job at pimping "LosTech" as magnificent then players will use it, and even brag about it to others (in character). "I shoot him with the Star League PPC in my right arm!" I tend to give these items all kinds of non rule benefits like making maintenance easier, making them slightly more compact (the PPC still takes 3 spots, but it's roomy for the tech to work on and it fits right), etc.

For true Star League advanced tech, I'd limit it to weapons, or to Mechs that can easily be converted to 3025 tech when they get shot. Endo Steel and XL engines are very hard to fix. FF armor just get replaced with standard, albeit less.

One note as to ComStar. They love for people to find LosTech. It's great, especially if it happens to be weapons. They want people to club themselves back into the dark ages, and a cache of weapons helps that to happen. The only thing you're going to have a problem with is if you find a technical manual with it. That they'll try to destroy. Remember, Precenter Rachan was more than willing to give Lord Garth all the mechs in the Helm stockpile - he just wanted to retrieve/destroy the library. As long as what you get is the physical item, and not the means to understand it, they don't care.

   - Shane

This. Comstar would be crazy to even try to control all the lostech weapons and equipment. They would be overstretched and it would become obvious that they were not so neutral anymore. If they went after just the tech manuals, blueprints, and scientists, however, it's much easier to keep secret and shift the blame. 

[Xotl]

Okay, so, hypothetical situation:

My group is mostly used to D&D, a game system that measures character advancement, in terms of power and progress, with loot as well as experience points. Your gear makes you better at being you.

Assume that one or more of the players dump a significant chunk of their XP pool into the various Vehicle traits, enough to start play with a custom heavy or even assault mech. Others might be happy to go with a roll on the RATs for any old light mech, and others might not bother with the Vehicle traits at all.

Do we need to adjust our expectations about how the game will play out? Should the people who start with a Marauder or Battlemaster expect to get better gear? Should any of them expect to get better *components* or just better *mechs*?

Especially considering this is likely going to start out in 3025, what sort of 'wealth progression' mentality should we have before we really get stuck in?

I think you definitely need to adjust your mentality.

D&D, for the most part, is predicated on the idea that it only gets better from here, far better, and that eventually you can be one of the most powerful beings in the world, someone who can shape the fate of existence.

The Battletech universe is completely different.  There will always, always be someone not just a bit stronger than you, but many many times stronger, unless you're playing House Lords or something.  If you anger any one of a number of factions, you will be squashed. 

As for wealth, if you start the game with a 'Mech, you actually already have all you need to live the rest of your days in luxury, just by selling it off and pocketing the millions - there's nowhere near the same sense of wealth pursuit as there is in D&D.  The pursuit of better equipment is much more limited as well - Mechs only go up to a 100 tons, and in 3025 you've maybe got your own Dropship, Jumpship, and Star League stuff (and the maintenance/ROM headaches that come with it) to chase after.  It's very easy to plateau.

And of course, the individual can get more skilled, but even a highly experienced character in the various Battletech RPGs is remarkably easy to kill with just about anything, compared to D&D.

You've got to think more about crafting a story than anything else, instead of a gear-driven narrative.

[Garner]

As for wealth, if you start the game with a 'Mech, you actually already have all you need to live the rest of your days in luxury, just by selling it off and pocketing the millions - there's nowhere near the same sense of wealth pursuit as there is in D&D.  The pursuit of better equipment is much more limited as well - Mechs only go up to a 100 tons, and in 3025 you've maybe got your own Dropship, Jumpship, and Star League stuff (and the maintenance/ROM headaches that come with it) to chase after.  It's very easy to plateau.

And of course, the individual can get more skilled, but even a highly experienced character in the various Battletech RPGs is remarkably easy to kill with just about anything, compared to D&D.

You've got to think more about crafting a story than anything else, instead of a gear-driven narrative.

Thanks, Xotl, that's increadibly helpful.

[massey]

The 3025 era has been described in different ways.  Sometimes it's Mad Max world, where kids sit watching a smashed television with a fire burning inside it.  Other times there are flying cars, advanced surgical techniques, laser pistols on every cop, and all sorts of wondrous stuff.  How the worlds your players visit actually function in day to day life is your decision.  Likewise, it's perfectly okay for the average mech to range from some cobbled together piece of junk (-2 armor points on all locations, +1 to critical hit rolls due to internal structure damage, a medium laser that has +2 to hit, a PPC that generates 15 heat, and an autocannon that jams on a to-hit roll of 4 or less), or for it to be factory new.  Both are acceptable within a normal 3025 campaign.

Lostech is generally very rare, but it is common enough that it still exists.  Occasionally there is some guy with an ER Large Laser in his mech.  If it ever gets broken, he can't replace it.

To me, the addition of a single Lostech weapon or system (unless it's DHS) is only a minor advantage.  It is not something you need to worry about too much.  The extra 4 hexes of range on that ER LL is nice, but it isn't going to break the campaign or anything.

[Coldwyn]

My take on this:

The 3025 era is a special case because you start out with the equivalent to a +5 vorpal blade, namely your mech. It´s old, it has a history, and, especially, it defines your role in society and social standing. The watchword here is "Dispossessed".

Using rules for scavenging, trading, supply really enhance the feeling of that era. In addition, tread Mechs like charakters, keep track of "battle scars", and so on.
To further the whole era-feeling, consider these options:
- A "real" Mechwarrior should start out with his Vehicle Trait and a Title Trait of at least +3 (Knight Bachelor) because he is in actual possession of his mech, which allows him to buy the Custom Vehicle Trait and the Design Quirk Trait. Further, this character may redesign, rebuild and rearm his mech according to his own wishes / possibilities.
- A character without the Vehicle Trait gains one mech from the "pool" of his affiliation on loan an may not alter it in any way nor has he control on repairs and refits. This charakter should be forced to take the In For Life Trait / Affiliation without gaining the exp for it as long as he uses the loaned mech. Further, some of the exp gained should be spent on the Title and Vehicle Traits until the character owns the mech (and is knighted).

Try staying away from "loot" of any kind. Rather enmesh rules and roleplaying, meaning that "good" roleplaying should enable a charakter to spent exp in the Connection Trait and thereby gain something. Maybe saving the barons´s ass in that one mission leads to NAIS offering the charakter to test-drive one of their new developments for a time, or being loyal to Liao leads to a Star League-era weapon mounted to your mech during the next routine maintenance ....

Further down the time-line, there is the clan invasion to consider and it is an good example for all of this. Characters in good standing with an affiliation are outfitted with clan hardware, from simple equipment to whole scavenged mechs.

Also consider this: Battletech charakters are larger than life.
Unlike traditional fantasy rpgs, where you start out as a lowly runt, clearing out the beginners dungeon and having to fear the town guard, you quickly move way above that level. Take a look at one of the Turning Point supplements: The battle for the fate of an entire planet in 5 - 8  tracks... That´s the size and scope to aim for and frankly, "just loot" can possibly only stand in the way to archive this.

How about this: Keep size and scope large, then hand out bonus exp towards title, connection, rank as a reward and see what further roleplaying can bring out of this.

[landryan]

I too have players who are more used to d&d than wargaming. We soon discovered that using full-blown BT rules slowed the game down too much. I stuck to using the Sorlaris vii 3rd edition rules system (whichis in theory more detailed and therefore slower) but abstracted it using narrative and focused on each indivdual PC in their mech rather than top down tactical combat. This allowed me to gloss over the complexity.

Lostech I use as "magic items" in a low-fantasy d&d game except its better because I can take it away through damage, ammo shortages or wear and tear. To date, the heaviest mech they've owned is a 50-ton PHK LAM, which is good because I can throw bigger mechs or smaller mechs at them. LAMs are treated like lostech so my players go to great lengths to look after them, as they know they'll never be able to replace them.

I too started in 3025. PCs started off as trainee mechwarriors assigned to one of Hanses's newfangled training corps. This meant they didn't start with a mech so they had total freedom in character build.

First adventure was all about training, using full BT rules and a map so everyone could understand a more abstracted system later. I borrowed heavily from Crescent Hawks Inception here, both plot and mechanics wise. I also tied it into the Pacifica plot from Warrior En Garde, having the trainers be the Kell Hounds. The grand finale was their training company getting bushwhacked by the hidden panthers from that book, enroute to the Kell Hound base. The training systems on the Chamelons left a lot of trainees sitting ducks as soon as they suffered any internal damage - a great many memorable NPCs died before the PCs could save the day.

Second adventure involved the hijacking of the Silver Eagle and eventually they were awarded their PHK LAMS by the Archon herself for their role in helping Dan and Patrick take on Yorinaga.

This left them free agents, but the campaign took a very different turn here - it became more political and espionage driven, linking into the Warrior trilogy. They still use their LAMs but there might only be one or two mech combats in an adventure. They have started their own merc group but ultimately their loyalties lie with the Steiners and the LIC pretty much owns them (and has bankrolled their merc outfit accordingly).

We've just finished the Royal Wedding and I'm writing another espionage adventure set against the backdrop of the 4th sucession war. When given the choice, this was the kind of adventure they wanted to do.