Author Topic: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?  (Read 7081 times)

YingJanshi

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Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« on: 27 February 2013, 18:15:24 »
Can someone explain the DV-6M Dervish to me. I've never been able to figure out how to use the darn thing properly. I like the mobility, the armor is meh, but the weapons load is just...bizarre to me. Not really enough throw weight for either short or long range for its 55 tons. Whenever I have to use one I just never know what to do with it.

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Ian Sharpe

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #1 on: 27 February 2013, 21:04:34 »
It can go in nearly any lance or company.  It has useful ranged firepower, so it can contribute to support lances.  Up close, its decently mobile and can be their maneuver element.  OK for killing non-mechs too, with the SRMs and two tons of ammo for them.  It can keep up with faster, more mobile lances.  Its fragile, yes, but once the LRM ammo is gone, it can take a little punishment.  Its not as overall useful as a Griffin or as good in close combat as most Wolverines, but it still can do pretty well. 

cold1

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #2 on: 27 February 2013, 21:24:21 »
The Trebuchet does it a little better minus the anti-infantry use.



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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #3 on: 27 February 2013, 22:50:31 »
The Dervish, while a Trebuchet could do its job "better," is a cheaper design, and is a little more flexible, over all.
I always see the Dervish as part of a light/medium support lance.
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #4 on: 27 February 2013, 23:30:29 »
Ahh the Dervish. It can do a lot. With 5/8/5 its pretty mobile. Start out as fire support, if you can find good terrain to plant and fire, awesome. If you can't, keep moving, you have the heat sinks to run and fire both LRM launchers until the cows come home.

The enemy moves in or you need to advance on them? Well, that's okay. Make sure your second ton of SRM ammo is inferno. Now you have a tool for infantry and armor, also for keeping the enemy from firing everything. With two medium lasers and the four SRM tubes, you can mix it up and stay under five heat, just keep moving because armor isn't the strongest point.
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #5 on: 27 February 2013, 23:46:00 »
Think of the classic 55 ton trio. The Griffin excels at long range support, the Wolverine can do a great job of closing and mixing it up (especially the M variant), and the Shadow Hawk tries to be a jack of all trades, but fails ... the Dervish is what the Shad wanted to be - a useful blend of mobility with long and short range punch to complement its lance mates.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #6 on: 27 February 2013, 23:48:28 »
The Dervish, while a Trebuchet could do its job "better," is a cheaper design, and is a little more flexible, over all.
I always see the Dervish as part of a light/medium support lance.
and pretty simple to upgrade if you can't purchase a DV-7D outright. remove 1-ton of SRM ammo and install CASE in both sides. *poof* a cheap Level-II unit (if your game take those things into consideration)

The key is its 5/8/5 movement rate. several designs share that movement rating, regardless of Jump capablity. its also complimentary with Shadow Hawks, Griffins, Wolverines (again, if your campaign involves logicstics as they are all 55-ton machines so they use the same parts, mostly) or any 50 to 60 machine with a 5/8 Movement rate. No it doesnt have great armor but if your getting shot at, your not playing it correctly LOL...

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #7 on: 28 February 2013, 00:10:59 »
The Trebuchet does it a little better minus the anti-infantry use.

Stock Trebuchet has the same or less armour every location but the CT(1 or 2 points over the Dervish), doesn't jump, and doesn't have the useful crit seeking that the SRMs provide, or their ability to use infernos.  Its similar, but not the same.  The Trebuchet that jumps has fewer missiles, and only 8 shots.  Better heat sinks for the laser battery thats now its main weapon, though.  The SRM Trebuchet is pretty good, excellent crit seeker and great heat curve for the era, but no weapons past 9 hexes.  The PPC and AC/5 is an oddity, so I exclude it. 

I won't call the Dervish better, but its one chassis that can fill a lot more slots for me than the Trebuchet can. 

Colt Ward

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #8 on: 28 February 2013, 03:56:36 »
Yeah, I prefer the Dervish over the Treb . . . I also think it was one of the mechs that was generally left behind as things advanced.  Though it is THE medium mech for MML demonstrations, one of the first I thought of when the tech was introduced.  I think it goes well with the Valkyrie, as stated a command mech for the light/med lances.  Interesting the -6Ms were around to the Jihad to be refit into the -6Mr, losing the SRMs . . . more survivable and less ammo dependant.

Never liked the -7D due to SSRM2s (SRM2 is better) and the two tons of ammo with them.  I would honestly fluff one of the tons being rerouted for LRM duty.
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #9 on: 28 February 2013, 04:05:51 »
It's a line 'Mech with jump jets. Arrange your Dervishes a bit like your Crusaders, but with jump jets. LRMs work as fire support for skirmishers and your ground speed keeps you at a higher TN for "bigger" BV fights. If the terrain is rough, use your jump jets to get to the best position possible to just sit and pour LRMs down field.

It really is a fine unit, but the ammunition does tend to blow up easily when you get in close.
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #10 on: 28 February 2013, 04:59:00 »
Yeah, I prefer the Dervish over the Treb . . . I also think it was one of the mechs that was generally left behind as things advanced.  Though it is THE medium mech for MML demonstrations, one of the first I thought of when the tech was introduced.


Yeah...after reading this post: LFE, Endo and MMLs? VERY nice what you can do...Frankly? I would not want to be on the
receiving end of one of those in a support fire role..adn even LESS if it had a 6 hex firing solution...
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #11 on: 28 February 2013, 07:54:58 »
As stated above, it can do a little of everything, and is what the Shadow Hawk wanted to be.  In general I use it like a Crusader, fire LRMs until they are gone, then charge in (or run away, depending on how the fight is going).

The best use I've seen from one was on a custom river delta map.  Lance v Lance, all SW tech.  The Dervish stayed behind while its 3 lancemates when in to engage the other lance.  In the end, it came down to a beat up Jenner against the undamaged Dervish (just with no LRM ammo).  I bet you can imagine how that one ended up.

Paladin1

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #12 on: 28 February 2013, 09:48:56 »
I've already seen the Dervish Vs. Trebuchet comparison and as a heavy Dervish user, need to point something out here.

The two designs, while similar, are intended to fulfill two different roles. 

The Trebuchet is intended to support Medium and Heavy line units which don't rely on mobility as much as firepower and armor.  The fluff of the Trebuchet even hints at this, stating that it was intended to act as a partner to the Centurion, a well known medium line unit.  Because of this, the Trebuchet focuses more on heavier firepower at the expense of mobility.

The Dervish, on the other hand, is intended to support Medium and Light units which rely more on mobility than on armor and firepower and are more likely to encounter different types of units, such as armor or conventional infantry forces.  Reflecting this, the Dervish's design engineers made the decision to focus more on mobility and weapon systems which could counter non-'Mech forces while still being useful against 'Mechs, such as the SRM-2s.  As it's already been pointed out, the ability to load a ton of standard SRM ammo as well as a ton of Inferno ammo was not an unintended consequence.

As for usage, use the Trebuchet like a miniature Archer, following behind the main lines and providing LRM support where required.  Finding a good firing position and providing overwatch is perfectly acceptable, but mixing it up with front line forces is not recommended unless absolutely necessary.  You may have three medium lasers as secondary weapons, but that's not going to work very well against a heavily armored and armed line unit. 

The Dervish, on the other hand, is best used by also following behind the main force but due to their nature, you're not as likely to have a "line" to support like the Trebuchet would.  Your mobility is your best asset, keeping you with your allied units and keeping you from being isolated and destroyed.  In the event that you're attacked by short range units trying to silence the LRM support, and chances are you will be, use your medium lasers and SRMS to beat them back.  Now would be the time to use those inferno rounds if you have them.  Unlike the Trebuchet, who is likely to face line units with thick armor and heavy weapons, the Dervish is more likely to face light and mobile medium units with thinner armor and short range weapons.  This doesn't mean you can stand and slug it out, as even these weapons will kill a Dervish eventually, but it does mean you have a few turns to get them off of you.

Boiled down, this is what you're looking at here.  Dervish is Cavalry while Trebuchet is Line.

Hope that helps.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #13 on: 28 February 2013, 11:00:52 »
Yeah, I prefer the Dervish over the Treb . . . I also think it was one of the mechs that was generally left behind as things advanced.  Though it is THE medium mech for MML demonstrations, one of the first I thought of when the tech was introduced.  I think it goes well with the Valkyrie, as stated a command mech for the light/med lances.  Interesting the -6Ms were around to the Jihad to be refit into the -6Mr, losing the SRMs . . . more survivable and less ammo dependant.

Never liked the -7D due to SSRM2s (SRM2 is better) and the two tons of ammo with them.  I would honestly fluff one of the tons being rerouted for LRM duty.

I don't know that it was left behind so much so as simply forgotten. The 7D is serviceable for its era.  Streak-2s also used to be able to use infernos.  The 8D from RSU is excellent, and certainly didn't need the craptastic Hell's Pawn to replace it.  MMLs have definitely benefited the light and medium skirmish/striker designs a ton, though.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #14 on: 28 February 2013, 12:42:11 »
There is a MML version, but it's the 9D not the 6M
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #15 on: 28 February 2013, 12:56:00 »
As someone who has faced the devish many times it is a great support/harassing mech constantly changing position and laying down LRM fire. When it either runs out of LRM ammo or you have closed for engagement the SRMs backed up by the medium lasers go to work. All in all a very versatile and compitatent mech, it has engaged one of my trebuchets once and not only out maneuvered it but took it out.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #16 on: 14 March 2013, 12:38:02 »
I usually swap one of the SRM ammo tons for another ton of LRMs.  Make it last another 6 turns with the launchers, using its mobility to hang back and rain death.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #17 on: 14 March 2013, 16:24:23 »

Boiled down, this is what you're looking at here.  Dervish is Cavalry while Trebuchet is Line.

Amen. In my 10th Deneb Light Cavalry RPG campaign (4th SW), the Player Character Fire Lance had three of these and a Griffin. The GRF provided backbone and ranged knockout power while the three DV's concentrated fire and mauled targets at all range bands, including the use of infernos whenever an opportunity presented itself. Their mobility let them dictate the pace of the battle as they saw fit and support the rest of the company however the situation demanded. In particular, they used their superior mobility and infernos to bring down heavies and their superior firepower and range to utterly crush light machines.

Good times.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #18 on: 14 March 2013, 16:50:06 »
yep
overall I am a big dervish fan
except that it doesnt have hands and there is no reason for it
other than artistic interpretation


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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #19 on: 20 March 2013, 17:54:09 »
Have always loved the Dervish.  As others have said, use mobility to rain death.  Get to close to something, or something gets close to you?  Sucks for whatever is about to be on the receiving end of 2 SRM2s and 2 Medium Lasers.  Funny enough I have never lost one in a game, and have dealt plenty of punishment.  Throw one in about any lance and have fun!

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #20 on: 20 March 2013, 18:06:01 »
yep
overall I am a big dervish fan
except that it doesnt have hands and there is no reason for it
other than artistic interpretation


grrrrr

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #21 on: 21 March 2013, 03:32:16 »
Oddly enough, I much prefer the newer primitive artwork for the Dervish, I couldn't really say why honestly...  ???

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #22 on: 21 March 2013, 03:54:25 »
Oddly enough, I much prefer the newer primitive artwork for the Dervish, I couldn't really say why honestly...  ???

I still prefer the 4th Edition Boxed Sets cardboard stand up for the Dervish..and SOOOO wish we had THAT in miniature,
as oppoest to the the "We must, we must increase our bust!" miniatures we currently have.
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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #23 on: 21 March 2013, 05:15:28 »
I still prefer the 4th Edition Boxed Sets cardboard stand up for the Dervish..and SOOOO wish we had THAT in miniature,
as oppoest to the the "We must, we must increase our bust!" miniatures we currently have.
  I've got the 4th Ed Boxed Set, and I love that piece of art too - looks a lot better than the TRO'39 art, IMO.  And AFAICT, the art for the (primitive) DV-1S in The Blake Documents is virtually the same piece - same pose, same look, just slightly remodeled in another artist's hand.  ;)

Taurevanime

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #24 on: 21 March 2013, 05:59:00 »
The feet and head are the biggest redesign on the primitive version's artwork. The head especially so, being more square shaped than round.

As for the paddle like hands. It's because it makes the Dervish deadly in melee with it's karate chop attacks that can break stacks of bricks.

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #25 on: 21 March 2013, 11:21:26 »
  I've got the 4th Ed Boxed Set, and I love that piece of art too - looks a lot better than the TRO'39 art, IMO.

That's the old TRO3025 art, actually.

Ian Sharpe

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Re: Could Someone Explain the DV-6M to Me?
« Reply #26 on: 21 March 2013, 11:23:16 »
I've never had a problem with the paddle hands.  I like the artwork with the black and red Dervish on sarna, from the Universe book.  Very aggressive looking.  The miniature also gets a bit better when the arms are bent and pointed at a target, rather than the ground. 

 

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