Thank you for replies, the information provided was really helpful.
I thought that Buhallin was a Russian name.
Indeed, it does sound a bit Russian (intentionally or not), at least for a Russian ear, although it is obvious that this name was rather constructed than being entirely of Russian origin, and it gives that feeling of slight incorrectness which is evident to any Russian but might be hard to catch for a foreigner. To give you some clue, imagine any surname which sounds like being of English origin, then replace some letters in it with any others completely at random. As a result you will have a surname which still might sound familiar, but somewhat unnatural at the same time.
As for Buhallin, it reminds me of the pronunciation of the Russian name Bukharin or as such:
Бу-хал’-лин
This is exactly the pronunciation I was most afraid of. Well, I think a bit of humor among grim clansmen will do no harm, then.
Given my training as a linguist in general and my Russian schooling, I would agree with Guardsman as to the origin of Seyla, and propose that the Russian for this would be closest to:
Сей-ла’
Thank you, and all who provided useful information. Not only because now I consider the ‘ay’ pronunciation to be the right one after all aforesaid, but also because I wonderingly discovered that you have the last syllable stressed and not the first one – the thing which has never occurred to me.:) Please, confirm that I did not misread you. I do understand that this word is not of English origin, hence the uncertainty of pronunciation, but if said pronunciation is commonly accepted I consider it to be reliable.
And I do have to add, very good avatar for a Clanner
It is the product of my attempts to recreate Jade Falcon’s uniform in 3D, as well as to solve some mismatching: it is clearly stated in both the JF source-book and the field manual that appropriate color of the field uniform is black with emerald piping, yet in both sources one will find pictures of black with sand-coloured piping - in the first; and yellow-green - in the latter (green variant of the uniform is used by conventional infantry as it stated in FM Crusader Clans, yet the legend under picture is trying to convince us that “a Jade Falcon
MechWarrior is instantly recognizable in his field uniformâ€). Was it just an artist making free with his imagination or was it some deliberate act to paint this same uniform this way, I saw no explanation what so ever, so if anyone knows something on the subject I would be very much obliged to you if you share some facts or insights to clarify the question. Anyway, here is an example of my attemts:
I had tried to add more details here and there, and in general, as you can see, I have yet to master 3D modeling to achieve satisfying results on this field.
Russian clanners should be a good fit, since the founders of the Clans were Russian, as were many of the original concepts.
Except the actual authors of the Clans were not (Well, AFAIK). :) Not that it matters. I personally perceive Nicholas Kerensky as a mix of lenin+Stalin+Likurgus+Mystic (in terms of his visions).
I think the question was whether the word "Cluster" has an astronomical meaning. The answer is yes, it is used in astronomy for "Star Clusters", areas with a notably high density of stars. Of course I have no idea what those are called in russian.
The Cluster was intended to reference the astronomical term. Star, Binary, Trinary, Cluster, Galaxy, they are all in variations on a theme.
Thank you, this is about help.
In English the term Cluster, as in 'Star Cluster' does have the astronomical connotation, so an idomatic translation of 'cluster' might be the same as constellation or asterism.
Созвездие
It is exactly the term I was keeping in mind when the question in the first post was asked.
Actually, the term '(star) cluster' (звездный клаÑтер) does have the astronomical connotation in Russian as well, so we tend to translate it as 'клаÑтер' (pronounced almost the same way as in English). Questions of proper translation compose one of the biggest stumbling blocks for Russian-speaking community, and 'клаÑтер' is one of the few terms that is generally accepted by most of the fans around here
First of all, the official term of the subject in question is ‘Ñкопление’ (check it out
here), with cluster being relatively recent borrowing from the English language, and despite its usage in astronomical circles it tends to be more of slang, completely unknown for an average person. Ask anyone what he or she associates
КлаÑтер with and the result may vary from cybernetics (клаÑтер данных) to linguistics (Ñзыковой клаÑтер) or chemistry, or this and that and the other with astronomical aspect least possible (if ever) to cross the mind. Therefore, the strict logical link star->cluster->galaxy become interrupted right in the middle of it which puts this term completely off the beam, and the whole construction because of it seems vague, not apparent and misguiding to a certain extent, while I am sure that mentioned Clan military terms were designed to be instantly recognizable in their meaning and logical interdependence. Consequently to counteract said effect and restore the sense of these terms as they were originally intended to be, I consider replacing ‘КлаÑтер’ with ‘Созвездие’ as appropriate measure. It sounds fine, it suits the whole Clan spirit perfectly, it provides apparent logical links to other terms instantly, and it allows for a better translation of particular Clusters without any of those awkward constructs a la ‘Ñедьмой когтиÑтый клаÑтер’, but instead ‘Ñедьмое Ñозвездие когтÑ’ or ‘Ñозвездие Ñедьмого когтÑ’ or ‘Ñто двадцать третье ударное Ñозвездие’ etc, which sounds much better and with an air of importance.
As for ‘Ñкопление’, despite being official term it suffers the same lack of instant recognition as a ‘КлаÑтер’ does, because it sounds too general and featureless without additional direct reference as ‘звездное Ñкопление’ and so on.
Few words about acceptance by the fans, - clearly there is more of a habit than of acceptance as such. Acceptance hardly implies the rightness at any rate; otherwise we would still believe our planet is a disk on top of the turtles and what not. I have no free time to unleash the full-scale Crusade to mercilessly eradicate what seems inappropriate in terms of terminology or whatever, or to crush any opposition and to establish the one true pattern of pronunciation among Russian-speaking fans of BT, nor do I wish so - it is to no purpose because old habits die slowly and for some they are just not a big deal to even bother. Though I will do my best to inform those interested in the matter and of course I will be hellbent to make sure that my Clan derives benefit from aforesaid information – it is the primary goal, and if others want they may follow us, for the best lead is by personal example, and I have no intention to be snowed under with endless and meaningless disputes similar to those of medieval scholastics, I prefer deeds over words. When the primary goal is achieved, then other steps will take place.
And to be done with it, few questions directly to RAE. I will switch to Russian:
Ðу, во-первых привет) приÑÑ‚Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð½ÐµÐ¾Ð¶Ð¸Ð´Ð°Ð½Ð½Ð¾ÑÑ‚ÑŒ увидеть здеÑÑŒ кого-то из руÑÑкоговорÑщих, потому что Ñ Ð±ÐµÐ· понÑÑ‚Ð¸Ñ Ñколько здеÑÑŒ наших на Ñтом форуме и уж грешным делом думал что вовÑе никого. Ты ÑоÑтоишь в каком-нибудь официальном подразделении? Потому что еÑли нет, у Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð² клане ÑÐµÐ¹Ñ‡Ð°Ñ ÐºÐ°Ðº раз идет набор людей, и еÑли хочешь - можешь приÑоединитьÑÑ. Ðабор идет в ветвь, ÐºÐ¾Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ€Ð°Ñ Ð±Ð¾Ð»ÑŒÑˆÐµ по чаÑти ÑимулÑтора, Ñто мерки, либо мвлл в перÑпективе, так что еÑли еÑÑ‚ÑŒ желание поучаÑтвовать – будем рады. Можем переговорить в пм каÑательно деталей итд ну и ÑÑылку Ñ Ñ‚ÐµÐ±Ðµ предоÑтавлю ÑоответÑтвенно.
__
One more question regarding translation issues. Again it is about military term – the point. Again it was word by word translation. And again I want to be sure whether it is the adequate one or not.
To start with – I will make some statements which may (or may not in case I am wrong) be self-evident to you as native-speakers, but it is the only way to be sure about particular meaning.
First, the point does mean the smallest possible part or unit. Second and most essential, it does imply that five points make up a star (as in five-pointed star) and if one is about to divide the star into any lesser elements, he or she would eventually come up with the term point as being most suitable and hardly anything else. What I am trying to say is that the term point is in line with other terms and logical link point->star->cluster is obvious and fall into place, and not of a stray of any kind. And the question what for goodness sake this ‘point’ has to do with other terms can never cross one’s mind, because there IS a connection between point and star, of the same kind as between star and cluster or cluster and galaxy. Is it so?
I am not sure I made it clear. I hope that at least the general idea is understandable.
If the things said above are correct, then again, I consider re-translation to take place, because now the existing term (точка) meets only the first requirement - small part of something, small dot, mathematical point or, to some extent, ‘a primitive notion upon which other concepts may be defined’(c)Wiki. But it has nothing to do with a star and the utterance ‘five-pointed star’ with word-by-word translation (пÑÑ‚Ð¸Ñ‚Ð¾Ñ‡ÐµÑ‡Ð½Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ·Ð´Ð°) makes no sense in Russian, thus this side of meaning is lost.
To make a long story short I see only one suitable term in Russian which meets all above said requirements – ‘луч’ (Beam, ray).It is possible to say ‘пÑÑ‚Ð¸Ð»ÑƒÑ‡ÐµÐ²Ð°Ñ Ð·Ð²ÐµÐ·Ð´Ð°â€™ (five-beamed or five-rayed star. Probably it makes no sense in English the same way as five-pointed star makes no sense in Russian when accused word-by-word translation is applied, i do not know), and it is in all ways logical. In addition, ‘луч’ can be considered a smallest part of a star, if we are not speaking in terms of astrophysics (and I believe we are not). So, to conclude, Russian version will be:
Луч->звезда->Ñозвездие->галактика.
Point->star->star cluster->galaxy.
Well, this sounds much better for me. If I misunderstood the meaning of the term ‘Point’ in context of Clan military (or any other), please correct me. I am eager to find the solution to this problem.
First of all, I think your English might be better than mine.
I have to agree that your English is superior to that of many on this forum.
Thank you for this. At least it means that my training back in the days gone by was not in vain, although I am sure there are mistakes I have missed, so if you encounter some, please feel free to point them out.
The Russian 'R' can sound a bit like an 'L' to an English speaker.
I thought that Russian ‘R’ is among the strongest in terms of pronunciation and that English ‘L’ sounds quite similar to its Russian counterpart. But I may be wrong about the latter, of course. Check
thisAnd
this, it contains a sample of pronunciation (though the sound they chose to record is funny). I would like to hear your opinion on these because I myself consider linguistic to be quite interesting matter, though more of a hobby from time to time.
And again, thank you all for the replies.
