Clan Using Magnetic Clamps

[YingJanshi]

So with the wider use of standard 'Mechs in front line galaxies, do you think the Clans might adopt the BA magnetic clamps? If not for front line than maybe for second line garrisons?

[Maelwys]

I think it would be possible. After all, the adopted and adapted them for ProtoMechs, so why not BA?

The only issue I could see is rampant traditionalism. "No no, carrying BA is a Omni's job! It doesn't matter if we're moving more non-omnis into frontline forces!"

[Diablo48]

I think it would be possible. After all, the adopted and adapted them for ProtoMechs, so why not BA?

The only issue I could see is rampant traditionalism. "No no, carrying BA is a Omni's job! It doesn't matter if we're moving more non-omnis into frontline forces!"

That seems likely to me as well, especially when you consider the Bear's more pragmatic approach to combat in the modern era and heavy use of home-built BA.  The Horses are the other likely candidate, however I am less familiar with their situation so I cannot say for sure.  The Shark/Foxes will probably also introduce one of their own once it starts catching on for sale to other Clans, but I cannot see them leading the way into an uncertain market when they know the Bears have the resources and motivation to shoulder the risk for them.

[Lazarus Jaguar]

Something I've been tinkering with is a BA I call "Blood Spirit Standard", which is a dirt cheap design I would envision a resource strapped clan building.   But one feature I'm giving it is clamps, since the Spirits have relativly few Omnis.  Just my take on how such a technology may be adopted.

[glitterboy2098]

i could see the Horse's adopting it for the ability for BA to cling to vehicles.. lets you carry an extra point using your transports, or bring some BA along by non-transport vee's..
though would the 5 man unit size alter the rules regarding riding vee's? or would they have to adopt 4 man points to accommodate the limitations?

[A. Lurker]

i could see the Horse's adopting it for the ability for BA to cling to vehicles.. lets you carry an extra point using your transports, or bring some BA along by non-transport vee's..
though would the 5 man unit size alter the rules regarding riding vee's? or would they have to adopt 4 man points to accommodate the limitations?

The Clans have figured out long ago how to put five-man Points onto the outsides of their OmniVehicles, I'm sure they'll think of something for magclamp-equipped BA and non-Omnis as well. ;)

(Or in other words, no, there's no need to "adopt" anything. Standard mechanized-BA-riding-a-vee distribution as per TW p. 227, two on each side and one guarding the rear in the case of five troopers.)

[wellspring]

So with the wider use of standard 'Mechs in front line galaxies, do you think the Clans might adopt the BA magnetic clamps? If not for front line than maybe for second line garrisons?

Yes, yes, yes.

Export versions of Sea Fox BA, for example, could get carried by omnis or not, depending on the formation and the customer.

More importantly, the Nova formation only really works if you have a star each, which requires that the star of Mechs be omnimechs, with no battlemechs. Otherwise, you either need undersized BA stars or transport vehicles. Mag clamps let you square the circle of fielding second-line equipment with front-line infantry and not having to pack IFVs to do it.

Now, to me the answer is "all-omni Touman" but clearly this has become a minority view even in the clans. So at least some mag clamps are in order.

[Jellico]

Or you could just run a vehicle Nova? Most Clans deploy a BA Binary/Trinary organisationally separate to their 'Mechs. Novas show up occasionally, more so depending upon the Clan.

Off the top of my head, depending on the year the Falcons are building Indra (BA)s, the Wolves Bandit and Badger Cs, the Exiles Maxim and Fensalir Cs, the Horses Svantovits, Kus and Anhurs, the Nova Cats Svantovits, and the Bears Anhurs, Eldingars and Tyrs.

Nova a Star to a BA Binary and away you go. No need to waste mass on clamps. And there are still enough Omnis around for the occasional 'Mech Nova.

[wellspring]

Seems like a lot of personnel and equipment just to save some kg on a battlesuit. Though with the proliferation of Assault suits, I suppose it's being done anyway.

[worktroll]

Off the top of my head, depending on the year the Falcons are building Indra (BA)s, the Wolves Bandit and Badger Cs, the Exiles Maxim and Fensalir Cs, the Horses Svantovits, Kus and Anhurs, the Nova Cats Svantovits, and the Bears Anhurs, Eldingars and Tyrs.

So ... Bandits and Badgers are omnivehicles, true? So one point of BA on the inside, one on the outside, and it's all good? This simplifies things!

W.

[Rtifs]

Or just do away with standard mechs in a Clan force like should have been done before Revival.  Logistically, standard mechs make absolutely no sense once you have omni technology.  Since the IS is returning to the old ways of everyone at war with everyone, the clans should return to the old ways too.  Ramp up production of trueborns and materiel again. 

[A. Lurker]

Or just do away with standard mechs in a Clan force like should have been done before Revival.  Logistically, standard mechs make absolutely no sense once you have omni technology.  Since the IS is returning to the old ways of everyone at war with everyone, the clans should return to the old ways too.  Ramp up production of trueborns and materiel again.

Oh, sure, in theory Omni technology should be the wave of the future for everyone who can make it work. The advantages are obvious.

In practice, though, "standard" units are here to stay because they help sell sourcebooks. There's only so much of a market for a Technical Readout: 50 More Timber Wolf Configurations.

[Southern Coyote]

I could see the Horses using it, even in front line galaxies.  Given their combined arms tactics, it'd be handy to be able to move BA or Protos to the front without having to use an omni or a specialized transport.  Imagine how much more mobility would be allowed if BA could simply hop a ride with any tank or mech heading towards the enemy. 

[Rtifs]

In practice, though, "standard" units are here to stay because they help sell sourcebooks.

Why would want to do that!   O0

[Natasha Kerensky]

So with the wider use of standard 'Mechs in front line galaxies, do you think the Clans might adopt the BA magnetic clamps? If not for front line than maybe for second line garrisons?

To the extent that the Society is Clan, they already have adopted Cappie BA magnetic clamp technology to create the protomech Magnetic Clamp System (MCS) used on the Hobgoblin proto  (WoR, p. 200, 210-211).  It's arguably only a step from there for the Homeworld Clans or the Horses (who inherited some Hobgoblins, IIRC) to apply the technology again to BA.  Setting aside secondline standard battlemechs, the Horses and Lions might be the first to use the technology to deploy BA from vehicles without resorting to personnel bays.  A point of Elementals riding the hull of a small hovertank or WIGE that can hit 15-25 hexes per turn would be a sight and arguably a more efficient use of resources (and potentially more effective depending on the circumstances) than Fire Moths or other omnimechs.

FWIW...

[Maelwys]

Of course, you can do the same thing with an OmniVehicle.

Just make that small hovertank/WiGE an "Omni" at a modest price increase, and suddenly you don't even have to worry about the design losing movement while the BA are on it, and you can save space and weight on the BA because you don't need the Clamps.

[wellspring]

Of course, you can do the same thing with an OmniVehicle.

Just make that small hovertank/WiGE an "Omni" at a modest price increase, and suddenly you don't even have to worry about the design losing movement while the BA are on it, and you can save space and weight on the BA because you don't need the Clamps.

To me, this is the ideal. No need to build dedicated APC/IFVs at all. The troopers carry armor sufficient to compensate for being outside the vehicle's armor (and also won't get trapped inside). We talk about saving a ton here and a ton there, but what about saving five whole tons at no loss in capability? What about saving the entire chassis by not having to field a category of designs at all?

It's the dream of the Mi-24: high mobility, good firepower, high-for-its-class armor, and an infantry capability. VTOL to lunge in and drop troopers into place, then fall back to provide fire support. (Or, on an OmniMech, infantry and armor mutually supporting one another.)

But since the BT universe has decided that BattleMechs are still front-line units, to be sprinkled into a formation at random, mag clamps aren't all that much of an inconvenience. I mean, we're talking about 30kg here. That's a point of armor-- nothing to sneeze at, but probably worth it on many designs.

[Natasha Kerensky]

Of course, you can do the same thing with an OmniVehicle.

Agreed.  I would use an Epona if available and/or within my BV or other balancing limits.   But if an Epona (or even an Hephaestus) is not available, then it would be nice to have magclamped Elementals that can make use of other, standard, combat vehicles for deployment as an option.
 
And in-universe, that could be the situation that the Horses and Lions are facing after the Jihad and Wars of Reaving.  With depleted resources, they may not have enough Eponas (or Hephaesti or Fire Moths, etc.) to meet their BA deployment needs or the wherewithal to produce enough Eponas (or Hephaesti or Fire Moths, etc.).  In that case, magclamped Elementals teamed with existing, standard, combat vehicles would make a lot of sense.

Out-of-universe, what I'd really like is both -- more canon Clan omnivehicles designs and canon magclamped Clan BA designs.

FWIW...

[Hellraiser]

So ... Bandits and Badgers are omnivehicles, true? So one point of BA on the inside, one on the outside, and it's all good?

Yeah, that was clairified a while back.  Check the MUL.
Even better, 2 points inside & 1 point outside, talk about dispersing some BA.
An entire STAR on a single point of Bandit-E's (G's) IIRC.



I think between the Horses Proto-Clamps & the Sharks IS Trade Connections that one of them will likely come up with a new Elemental (Magnetic) suit just like the Infiltrator & Longinus did.

Replacing the SRM2+Reload w/ a single SRM4-OS saves you the 30kg for MagClamps, I could honestly see this as a next gen variant.

[Urban Kufahl]

And the clamps allow a ride even on vehicles ;)

[TigerShark]

OmniMechs being front line has more to do with resources and tradition than Clan law. If a "poor" Clan like Goliath Scorpion or Cloud Cobra needs to use more non-Omnis in front-line combat, they'll find ways to deploy resources effectively. Magnetic clamps seem reasonable for this.

[Hellraiser]

MagClamp seem really useful for 2nd Line Mech Novas.

I honestly don't see MagClamps+Vees as being a particulary great combo.

Not that its not useful, just that if your going the Vee's route then there are plenty of vees that can actually carry the BA internally w/o the loss of MP.

But being able to Nova a Star of BA with Locust IIC's.   Now that seems like a good thing to me  >:D

[Diablo48]

MagClamp seem really useful for 2nd Line Mech Novas.

I honestly don't see MagClamps+Vees as being a particulary great combo.

Not that its not useful, just that if your going the Vee's route then there are plenty of vees that can actually carry the BA internally w/o the loss of MP.

But being able to Nova a Star of BA with Locust IIC's.   Now that seems like a good thing to me  >:D

Honestly, I was thinking of using it to allow mixed omni/non-omni novas.  For example, I love the Solitaire and try to include it in my striker stars whenever possible, but as a BattleMech it limits my ability to use novas.  A Mag Clamp suit would allow me to mix my suits and allow me to still use the Solitaire in a nova for more variety in both carriers and suits.

[YingJanshi]

When I started this thread I was specifically thinking of the Post-Jihad Wolves. Who had lost their entire ability to manufacture Omnis from what I remember. Of course I don't know what their capabilities are in 3145.

[Hellraiser]

Well its not the entire capacity, but they were knocked down a peg or 20 on the manufacturing front.

[Diablo48]

When I started this thread I was specifically thinking of the Post-Jihad Wolves. Who had lost their entire ability to manufacture Omnis from what I remember. Of course I don't know what their capabilities are in 3145.

The Wolves are tighter on R&D budgets than the Horses and especially the Bears so developing a Mag Clamp suit would be a greater investment for them, and they also rely less on BA than the Horses or Bears so there would be less interest in developing it in-house.  They would probably be interested in buying suits from the Shark/Foxes, but they are something of a wildcard here because they are really just looking at the export market.

[Fletch]

The Hephaestus Jump Tank fluff notes speculation about Clan Hell's Horses experimenting with Capellan mag clamp technology.

Why we have seen it only on the Protos is interesting as the Elemental II was a chance to use mag clamps but they went for Battle Armor Myomer Booster increasing the units speed.

We watch and wait.