TRO 3145--Federated Suns

[RyuWanderfalke]

Though a Supercharger is more efficient in weight savings and its actual funcunality than a MASC.
Speaking of which... was there even a single Supercharger in this TRO?

[StCptMara]

You know....The Menshen could have been the pre-eminent Inner Sphere Medium Omni (what with the stinkers of the
first generation's Mediums) if it had not been sadled with such horrible canon configurations. However, I think I will say:
The Centurion now takes the prize as the Pre-eminent Inner Sphere Medium Omni. I just wish they had gone with a Light Engine
when they upgraded the speed from 4/6 to 5/8, instead of an XL Engine.

[wantec]

Don't forget to read the fluff, not just the stats. If you do, you'll find that the Atlas III is the Fed Suns' version of the Shiro. It's only given to battalion and regimental commanders and it's designed for survivability. On one side are the RAC & LRMs, on the other side of the mech are the XPLs and SRMs. In active defense mode, a shield covers the head, front CT, arm, leg, side torso (front and rear) on the side where the shield is. So with a shield on each arm, you can keep one in active defense mode at all times and still be able to fire either your long or short range weapons. For the side you're firing there's passive defense mode (protects front side torso and arm, but a +2 to-hit for each weapon in a protected area) or inactive defense mode (only protects arm, +1 to hit for arm weapons). The small shields will absorb the first 3 points of every hit and can block 11 hits. Along with the armored cockpit, these are designed to keep a commander alive, rather than have him out there trying to kill everyone.

[Istal_Devalis]

Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?

[RyuWanderfalke]

Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?

Jup, Oversized. ;)

[StCptMara]

Jup, Oversized. ;)

And the arms thing on the Prey Seeker

[A. Lurker]

Though a Supercharger is more efficient in weight savings and its actual funcunality than a MASC.
Speaking of which... was there even a single Supercharger in this TRO?

Replace a few blown leg actuators: fairly easy operation, cost in at worst the bottom of six digits (and that's assuming something like an assault 'Mech that manages to break everything in its legs). Replace or repair a wrecked engine and get a new spare supercharger: hmmm, I dunno. ;)

Seriously, until the canon C-bill cost for superchargers goes down considerably from its current "might as well install a second engine while we're at it" level, MASC remains a perfectly viable alternative in-universe.

[Coldwyn]

Anyone else notice we got the premier of another new quirk in this one?

You mean Overhead Arms?

[RyuWanderfalke]

Replace a few blown leg actuators: fairly easy operation, cost in at worst the bottom of six digits (and that's assuming something like an assault 'Mech that manages to break everything in its legs). Replace or repair a wrecked engine and get a new spare supercharger: hmmm, I dunno. ;)

Seriously, until the canon C-bill cost for superchargers goes down considerably from its current "might as well install a second engine while we're at it" level, MASC remains a perfectly viable alternative in-universe.

Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.

[DarkISI]

Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.

A failed MASC roll hasn't locked your legs up for years now. TW changed it to a simple leg crit - which can also hit Heat Sinks or whatever else is in a leg. So you can get away with a failed roll and lose only a single point of heat capacity.

[Rorke]

I want a heavy omnimech, something well armored and powerful. Ever since I heard about the possible omni Argus and Thanatos I have really wanted some kind of heavy omni for the Suns. An omni medium would be nice definitely but with the DC already getting two medium Omni's I want the FS to have something different.

Also, I think the Templar III will probably be an omnimech as well or at least I hope so. Of course, does anyone know what the Templar II was?

Absolutely concur, a heavy Omni is well overdue.  Though if it's some sort of idiotic 6/9 speed 65 tonner I may be a touch....upset.

mmmmm OmniJager, that'd do nicely though.

[Savage Coyote]

If we follow the pattern of current winning sides actually getting good stuff, while the losing sides actually get... ehr the rather subpar stuff, I guess TRO The Clans will be packed with monstrously efficient Clan designs while TRO LyrCom will make me shiver and quit the universe.  #P

I didn't think Lyran was that bad...  :D

[RyuWanderfalke]

Well, we'll see, I guess. But I prepare myself for the worst. ;)

[A. Lurker]

Ehrm... in a fight, you block your legs, you basically become a turret. Your Supercharger blows up, "Damn, it's getting hot... ah, already much better". And after that you just run normally.
It actually increases survivability as well since you have an additional engine slot that can take a hit without counting into the "3-engine-hits-will-fry-you"-count.

Yes, but that's only the individual MechWarrior's perspective.

You can bet your unit's quartermaster sees things differently already, and once we get into the mindset of the folks whose job it is to hand out and pay for the actual production contracts for an entire nation's military to individual firms...well. ;)

Also, yeah, as DarkISI said, MASC failure hasn't been an automatic double hip lock anymore since the last edition of the rules. It can still happen if you're unlucky enough, but even if you have nothing else in the legs to soak a crit the chances of "only" losing a couple of foot/leg actuators instead and that 'Mech still being able to limp off the battlefield under its own power aren't actually too bad.

[mbear]

Re-engineered lasers??

Radical Heat Sink systems??

A couple paragraphs in Era Report: 3145 give background on these. Re-engineered lasers inflict their full damage against reflective armor.

Radical Heat Sink systems are apparently multi-use Coolant Pods. You can apparently use them multiple times, but each time you do there's a chance of something bad happening.

(Actual game rules for these haven't been released yet.)

Is it just me or does most of the Clan tech have the names of FedSuns manufacturers?

Manufacturers have been able to build Clan-spec equipment since the mid to late 3050s. Maximum Tech describes this. The main stumbling block to doing so was the sheer cost of the equipment. With the FedSun's situation in 3145, maybe they decided it was time to invest in the higher quality stuff.

[cavingjan]

The Black Knight should have the 300 engine rating which brings its reduced speed due to the shield at 3/5. Not 2/3.

[DarkISI]

It can still happen if you're unlucky enough, but even if you have nothing else in the legs to soak a crit the chances of "only" losing a couple of foot/leg actuators instead and that 'Mech still being able to limp off the battlefield under its own power aren't actually too bad.

And a fast 'Mech like the Gunsmith will still be able to move at 8/12(16), even after losing two "normal" leg criticals. That's far from limping off the battlefield ;)
Also: Even a failed MASC roll activates it - you just have to deal with possible critical hits.

[Marwynn]

Don't forget to read the fluff, not just the stats. If you do, you'll find that the Atlas III is the Fed Suns' version of the Shiro. It's only given to battalion and regimental commanders and it's designed for survivability. On one side are the RAC & LRMs, on the other side of the mech are the XPLs and SRMs. In active defense mode, a shield covers the head, front CT, arm, leg, side torso (front and rear) on the side where the shield is. So with a shield on each arm, you can keep one in active defense mode at all times and still be able to fire either your long or short range weapons. For the side you're firing there's passive defense mode (protects front side torso and arm, but a +2 to-hit for each weapon in a protected area) or inactive defense mode (only protects arm, +1 to hit for arm weapons). The small shields will absorb the first 3 points of every hit and can block 11 hits. Along with the armored cockpit, these are designed to keep a commander alive, rather than have him out there trying to kill everyone.

Interesting. Love that it's dual-wielding shields! It's a cool paradigm for command 'Mechs to have ultra-resilience like this.

[Coldwyn]

And a fast 'Mech like the Gunsmith will still be able to move at 8/12(16), even after losing two "normal" leg criticals. That's far from limping off the battlefield ;)

So, ok, you made it abundantly clear that the Funs have a knack for high speed fleeing from the enemy. Makes me wonder why they don´t have more armour at the back than in the front :P

Interesting. Love that it's dual-wielding shields! It's a cool paradigm for command 'Mechs to have ultra-resilience like this.

And it even makes sense. It´s not the fact that it is silly to have your best commanders lead from the front, but now they could survive that.

[Gus]

Looking at the stats for Re-Engineered Lasers, I certainly hope they have more incentive to use them than greater effectiveness against reflective armor. In MW:AOD, they ignored Reflective Armor, Heavy Armor and Hardened Armor. Wouldn't it be interesting (}:)) if, in BattleTech, they ignored Hardened Armor and Ferro-Lamellor as well as Reflective?

Also, I wonder if there is a Small Re-Engineered Laser?

[Gus]

...and the Coming Releases page was just updated with the cover to TRO:3145 Free Worlds Leage. Is that a Stalker? A PURPLE Stalker?!  :D

[DarkISI]

So, ok, you made it abundantly clear that the Funs have a knack for high speed fleeing from the enemy. Makes me wonder why they don´t have more armour at the back than in the front :P

Okay, you could say that :D

But I'm more in line with the statement that some people here look at some of those 'Mechs from the wrong perspective. Looking at something like the Gunsmith or Prey Seeker as a combat 'Mech is really not something you should do. Both are not meant to be piloted in the middle of a battlefield. One is a scout, the other a pursuit 'Mech.
If you end up in the middle of a big battlefield with one of them, you have done something terribly wrong and I would order a drug test - and then issue an DUI against the 'MechWarrior ;)

Sure, they will end up fighting - why else would we play Battletech ;) - but they are both not meant to run around and be constantly in the open and get shot at. Race them behind the enemy, make them nervous because those little buggers are in their rear - and then hammer them from the front. The Prey Seeker is 549 BV. What else will you get in that range bracket?
And the XXL Engine... Let's be serious here: If it gets hit (and yes, I use the term if and not when, that is no accident), it will be blown to pieces anyway. The big engine doesn't really make it any worse.
From a C-Bill standpoint: Expensive as hell. Granted. But who plays his normal games with C-Bills? They are a worse balancing factor than even tonnage.

[Kitsune413]

I'm curious why people seem to think the Federated Suns units are at such a disadvantage here?

[Ratwedge]

I'm curious why people seem to think the Federated Suns units are at such a disadvantage here?

Because they forgot to read the Draconis Combines TRO.

[Kitsune413]

Sure, they will end up fighting - why else would we play Battletech ;) - but they are both not meant to run around and be constantly in the open and get shot at. Race them behind the enemy, make them nervous because those little buggers are in their rear - and then hammer them from the front. The Prey Seeker is 549 BV. What else will you get in that range bracket?
And the XXL Engine... Let's be serious here: If it gets hit (and yes, I use the term if and not when, that is no accident), it will be blown to pieces anyway. The big engine doesn't really make it any worse.

I made that same assumption. XXL engines on light units isn't a bad idea. They disintegrate anyways and it looks like they used the tonnage to help the units not get hit in the first place.

[RyuWanderfalke]

...and the Coming Releases page was just updated with the cover to TRO:3145 Free Worlds Leage. Is that a Stalker? A PURPLE Stalker?!  :D

Jup, definitely some kind of Stalker, I would say.

[DarkISI]

I made that same assumption. XXL engines on light units isn't a bad idea. They disintegrate anyways and it looks like they used the tonnage to help the units not get hit in the first place.

Being the person who designed the Prey Seeker I can guarantee you, that that was exactly my thinking. If you get hit, you are dead anyway (be it a standard Fusion Engine, a Light Engine or an XL Engine). I could at least milk some MP from an XXL Engine and reduce the chance to get hit tremendously - especially if the alternative would be a standard Fusion Engine oder even a Light Engine.

[Coldwyn]

But who plays his normal games with C-Bills? They are a worse balancing factor than even tonnage.

We´ve played a merc campaign using C-Bills for more than 10 years, so.....

As for the rest, you don´t have to convince me. In an expanded game with multiple units or split maps, units like the Face HuggerPrey Seeker are fine to go for arty like the Sniper or Paladin in the same book. Reasonable chance to get there, must only survive long enough against their point-defense weapons. That´s a good use of BV-vs-BV here. Even better if using support units like the old coolant truck, munition transports or mobile HQs.
Fluff-wise, I think it´s a job well done on converging the feeling of a defensive army that was geared towards peace-time.

[RyuWanderfalke]

Because they forgot to read the Draconis Combines TRO.

What did you not like about the DC TRO? I found it to be pretty good. Solid mechs, vees and BAs, a great Omni chassis, a great ASF, excellent variants for the signature line mechs... not to mention all the former NC stuff.

[DarkISI]

We´ve played a merc campaign using C-Bills for more than 10 years, so.....

I knew somebody would have to argue ;)
But, to be a bit more serious: I have done the same. Not for 10 years (very impressive, btw), but we have run a campaign based on C-Bills. Still, those campaigns are a minority and would most likely actually use something like the Prey Seeker in the role it was actually intended to be used in. Campaign players usually look at the big picture and not just a one off 4 vs 4 lance fight. :)

As for the rest, you don´t have to convince me. In an expanded game with multiple units or split maps, units like the Face HuggerPrey Seeker are fine to go for arty like the Sniper or Paladin in the same book. Reasonable chance to get there, must only survive long enough against their point-defense weapons. That´s a good use of BV-vs-BV here. Even better if using support units like the old coolant truck, munition transports or mobile HQs.

Exactly :)

And the Face Hugger made me laugh :D

Fluff-wise, I think it´s a job well done on converging the feeling of a defensive army that was geared towards peace-time.

I didn't have anything to do with the fluff, but I agree. Couldn't have written it better myself - it offers a perfect description of the actual thought pattern behind the 'Mech and is still fun to read. :)