TRO 3145--Federated Suns

[MadCapellan]

But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

Yes.  The primary advantages of Mech 'Mortars is that they hit in 2 point damage clusters like SRMs and are immune to AMS.

[MarauderD]

But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

I had to look that up myself as this era has so many toys I've never used. According to TacOps, yes, mortars are immune to AMS.

[Marwynn]

Offtopic: the current setting is a great opportunity to play the underdog against terrible odds. I think it is just going to take some time for us FedSuns fans (read: myself) to wrap our collective minds around the concept, whereas others like Rorke already have done so.

On topic: Since the DCMS has a light mech flavor/preference historically, how does one handle the new Roku striker lances? Even with something fast and well armed like the Gunsmith, I'm having trouble seeing anyone put out enough damage to down a Roku before they lose initiative and perhaps then lose a leg. This becomes even more true when it is the ER PPC variant.

I played mostly in the 3005-3067 era, so I've used a lot of Valkyries and Javelins with the hodgepodge of bugs. Any thoughts on how to put down a mixed Roku/Panther lance without needing 8 mapsheets to give ground?

Honestly, the Gunsmith should be able to wear down a Roku. It can walk as fast as the Rokurokubi can run. You'll need a larger play area, but as long as you don't expose your back to it on the turns you lose initiative, I think you can succeed.

The Gunsmith seems to be built as an alpha monster and it has the speed to capitalize on successive initiative wins. On the turns it loses, it needs to get outta dodge. With Fire Moth speeds, I say pour on the heat.

It'll be tough going though. The RK-4K will need more than three hits to the same location just to get at something juicy; two for the arms.

Incidentally, this is the kind of 'Mech I was expecting for the DCMS. Aggressive, single-minded, and rewards tenacity. It's a juxtaposition on the 'defensive' mindset of the AFFS.

[Weirdo]

But they are immune to AntiMissile systems, right?

Not being missiles at all, you are correct in saying that antimissile systems do not affect them. In addition, they don't really need a spotter if you don't have one handy. Numbers start to suck, though.

There is seriously a lot of cool stuff Mortars can do. There's a reason why I keep pushing for more Mortar units in the game.

[MadCapellan]

I had to look that up myself as this era has so many toys I've never used. According to TacOps, yes, mortars are immune to AMS.

The Antlion isn't a particularly impressive platform, but I think you guys may find that 'Mech Mortars surprise you. Nothing will ruin someone's day like 8 indirectly fired SRMs every, single, turn.  The area effect munitions allow you to ignore the target's movement modifier (the rules deny you the immobile target bonus), or you can use semi-G mortars for ultimate mayhem.

[Baldur Mekorig]

Bleh. Once again blaming Caleb. The problems with the AFFS goes far deeper than what one guy can do in 10 years. This is a systemic failure that seems to cover most aspects of AFFS structure.

Also... the AFFS position is NOT the same as the LCAF. The LCAF is getting clobbered because of massive defeats that decimated its army. They simply lost too much to be effective in a direct battle.

At a guess, I would say the AFFS simply isn't used to fight at equal or lesser odds and can't adjust to it. They don't have a 3-1 advantage anymore over their enemies.

 Its me of the AFFS officers are badly trained? I mention it because of the two or three mentions of soldiers trying to kill their officers after almost getting killed because of idiotic orders.

[Yeti]

While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

[Rorke]

Ahhh but read it in some sort of context eh.  One of those mentioned was a militia officer, who ought to
have known better.  Also pay attention to the fact that the "party" charged with beating him up, will likely
walk right back into a line unit. 

Right now on the subject of our competence in general, not all of the facts are in our possession.  So I'd
urge some degree of patience.

[Weirdo]

While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

Lets it last long enough to kick you to death?

[Marwynn]

While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

Reinforced Structure has a -1 for rolling crits, and this thing only moves at 5/8. Leg crits would be very, very bad.

Also, Artillery units can make an indirect attack too if you're within 17 hexes (and well, of course beyond that too). So you're not completely safe from retaliation.

[StCptMara]

Its me of the AFFS officers are badly trained? I mention it because of the two or three mentions of soldiers trying to kill their officers after almost getting killed because of idiotic orders.

Remember the Field Digest thingies they were putting out of the state of the militaries just after the Jihad?
One of the problems the AFFS had was that it had lost a whole bunch of officers, and was stuck with having
to decide if it sent the battlefield skilled officers to teach at the Academies, or if it kept them in the field where
they were still being needed. This means that, likely, there might very well have been a "Those who can, do,
those who can't, teach" situation. This means an undermining of the training of the officer corps will have likely
occured. Look at the Davion Light Guards having to ask a green Lt about the specialty of that unit. Why would
they be doing that, unless they actually lost alot of knowledge and were still trying to piece it all together?
Then you have flag officers giving pretty much orders for suicide missions.

[Fallen_Raven]

While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

I'd go with being able to survive return fire, which could be a real problem if Dragon IIs start lobbing shots your way. Another useful aspect might be surviving headhunter attepmts long enough for support to get to you. I know I'd be aiming for anything with mortars on it, so I like the idea of a firesupport platform that can take a few hits and still be able to retreat.

[MadCapellan]

I can't recall what Dark Age novel it was, but I want to say there was a conversation between Harrison and Julian Davion regarding how ill-prepared the Federated Suns was for war, and that the focus was on the men (training) not material.

[mbear]

While i get the idea of the antlion as an indirect fire mech, what still confuses me is the reinforced internal structure.
That is something i would expect in a stand-up fighter like the TRO:P Hunchback, but not in a unit that should not get hit anyway.

There's also the possibility that the designer just ran out of critical slots and had enough weight left over to fit reinforced structure.

Though I think I might have used small pulse lasers instead of machine guns. Different strokes for different folks though.

[FedSunsBorn]

I think it was the novel where they go to VSD's funeral? Sword of Sedition maybe? I haven't read those novels in a long time so it kinda hard to remember.

Between ER3075, FM3085, novels like one of the above and ER3145, I think it has been shown that the Davions aren't like how they were, the tip of the spear. This makes sense due to the additional peace time and policy changes. I am reminded of how France went from being the best of the best under Napoleon to simple see the enemy and charge tactics under WWI and then a much more defensive mindset at the outset of WWII.

WWI bled them white and changed their strategic and tactical outset and I think the Jihad did the same thing for the FS military. A large number of units in this new TRO are defensive in nature with only average firepower but I think it is a logical step considering the policies of Stone and the push towards disarming.

Also, about being 'whiny' and such, I try to keep a positive outlook for the most part and have definitely gone over to Rorke's(and others) way of thinking. I remember being surprised by all of the losses and expressing my opinions on such things awhile back on one of the threads when everything first came up and I can see how people might see 1 or 2 of those posts as being complaining but I now have been trying to see the positive things of this new era and it has been working. My enthusiasm has gone up again.  O0

I think most FS fans have been quite good about how things have gone down with only a few being more pessimistic etc. For everyone else who aren't fans of the FS, try and look beyond those few who are a bit more vocal and negative and look to the rest of us FS fans who are still supportive of things and are trying to keep a good attitude.  :)

[MadCapellan]

The majority of Federated Suns fans have been good sports about the direction the storyline has taken, they just haven't had a lot to say.  That's rather understandable, it's hard to be excited about taking a beating. 

Thanks for keeping things respectful and in-perspective, guys.  Ultimately, this is a game we should all be able to play together and enjoy. 

[mbear]

The majority of Federated Suns fans have been good sports about the direction the storyline has taken, they just haven't had a lot to say.  That's rather understandable, it's hard to be excited about taking a beating.

Our inevitable triumph however... ;)

[Banzai]

Just downloaded this, and I love it so far.  The art is beautiful, and having a single artist was great.  I love the return to the older style of fluff, circa 3025.  The notable units sections are wonderful.

As for the units themselves?  "L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace!"  That should be the FedSuns motto with this stuff.  (Hell, that should always be the FedSuns motto.)  These units aren't geared around "walk in a straight line and blast everything," which seems to be what people wanted by reading the complaints.  No, these are for finding new and intriguing ways to mess up your opponent's day. A lot of "do unto to others, then run like hell, then do it again."

The exceptions are the Black Knight and Atlas III, which show what a defensive 'Mech should do.  I was originally underawed by the AS7-D3, originall thinking from the artwork it would be a another Hulk Smash variant.  And then i read RAC-2.  Really?  But after thinking on it, it really makes sense for what the 'Mech is designed for: keeping the commander alive, and it does that beautifully. (I plan on running IHTP: Mallory's World with Ian in a -D3 just for fun. )  The RAC is a long distance fly swatter, not a big bam boom.  (That is what the HAG 30 version is for.  NICE!) 

As for the Suns in 3145?  I am so loving this time frame right now!  "What does that make us?"  "Big Damn Heroes, sir."  "Ain't we just?" It is Big Damn Hero time.  I loved the Jihad's battle for New Avalon.  Loved it.  I loved the battle for Mallory's World.  This is the time that heroes are made.  This is the time for legends.  I love the poetry, I love the danger, I love odd 'Mechs.  (I play Team Banzai after all. )  And I am energized for my faction as I haven't been in years.

Ain't we just.

[SteveUK]

Thanks for all the replies.
I am starting to see the design train of thought - defensive mechs to stop and hold the line, harassers and raiders to spoil attacks and create mayhem at the back row, mechs to keep your skilled battlefield officers alive along with some oddballs to mix it all up. - Now off to put this all to the test on the maps, Time for a Davion victory or two!  ;)

[Martius]

The area effect munitions allow you to ignore the target's movement modifier (the rules deny you the immobile target bonus), or you can use semi-G mortars for ultimate mayhem.

I also want to mention that are effect weapons do terrible things to reflective armour (BA is immune however).  O0

[Molossian Dog IIC]

The Destrier/Teppo synchronicity has crossed my mind.

What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

Is it friendly?

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?

(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)

[MadCapellan]

What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

It's an enormous Drac artillery train, and it can be found in TRO: 3085 Supplemental, a pdf only bonus product.  TRO: 3085 ended up having so many units designed for it that a number got pushed out of the print publication.  Since they were essentially complete, however, it was decided to release them as a bonus product on their own.  It's also home to such sweet units as the Yao Lien and the War Lich

[Welshman]

Hello,

I wanted to take a minute to speak on the under currents of this thread. I do so as an individual, not as a member of Catalyst's freelance staff.

I think it is well known that before I was assimilated by Catalyst Game Labs I was a died in the wool Davion fan. I became a fan in the early 80's, before the Warrior novels and the 4th Succession War. After reading all the House Books, I found myself drawn to the FedSuns.

This was the end of the 3rd Succession Wars. The universe was mostly balanced (The CapCon were the clear underdogs, but still well in the fight). I didn't pick the winning faction.

I picked the Federated Suns because of what I saw them standing for and what they were trying to do. I was thrilled when they did so well in the 4th SW and I was proud of how they acted in the Clan Invasion (if ever there was a time to leave an ally high and dry, that was it).

So when I came back from my decade hiatus to find the Commonwealth sundered, the AFFS trashed in the FCCW and a Jihad about ready to scorch huge chunks of the Suns, I didn't bemoan the losses. No, I stood proud that the Suns was still trying to live the dream in the way they set out to do.


My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.

Thank you,
Joel BC
BattleTech Veteran since 198.... cough cough.

[Weirdo]

It occurs ot me that I have somewhere between one and two Ogre minis that I've never painted up. I think they might be due a little...time in the sun. 8)

[Marwynn]

What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

Is it friendly?

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?

(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)

Well, a Teppo is very friendly. To its friends.

You can get an idea of what it does here.

[Coldwyn]

What´s a Teppo and where can I find one?

It´s in TRO3085 Supplemental, a PDF only product featuring the "leftovers". I would recommend it for the Teppo and Aeron alone.

Is it friendly?

That pretty much depends. It´s basically a 150 ton artillery platform with two optional 75 ton trailers, one a dedicated C3 mobile (two masters!), the other is a repair platform.
So, basically, it won´t have a prob lugging one looted Ballista trailer arounf, for even more arty fun.

Or are we talking about the Tonbo?
(Don´t tell me there is another version of TRO3085 out already. Frankly I hate it when there are multiple TRO variants. They are so easy to overlook.)

Sadly, Tonbos and Teppos don´t mix well. A Tonbo can´t lift a Teppo.

[Molossian Dog IIC]

It's an enormous Drac artillery train, and it can be found in TRO: 3085 Supplemental, a pdf only bonus product.  ...

On the one hand this is great as there is yet another Battletech product to read...
On the other hand im a bit perturbed that there is yet another Battletech product which I missed until now.

I don´t know why this happens to me now and then in regards to the TROs. I usually check regularly for new products.

[Martius]

My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated. I believe that's why we've heard so little from the Nova Cat fans. The Cats went out standing up for what they believed in.

Hear, hear!

As a fan of a few dead factions I can only agree.

I also want to add that even if one of my chosen factions suffers (be it from an inept leader, the WoB annihilating the capital or a Khan being a murderous female dog) I will still keep playing them.
Indeed I invite doom and pain upon my factions as this is Battletech and heroic fights are only fought against strong opponents and in desperate situations.
If my faction dies (and even if it is by a midget prince's sword) so be it.

[Weirdo]

On the one hand this is great as there is yet another Battletech product to read...
On the other hand im a bit perturbed that there is yet another Battletech product which I missed until now.

I don´t know why this happens to me now and then in regards to the TROs. I usually check regularly for new products.

My advice would be to go to this thread and click on the 'Notify' button near the top and bottom of the page. This way, you'll get en email automatically every time a new product is released, since that thread is where they're announced. Won't miss a thing ever again! O0

[Molossian Dog IIC]

@Weirdo

Done. There is no reason why they shouldn´t have my money.

...
My opinion, and strictly my opinion: If you are going to be a fan of a faction. You are a fan of them because of what they stand for. Not because they win or lose or even if they are annihilated.
...

I second the call for being loyal to your faction no matter the odds. Something, whatever it may have been, called you to take up the banner. Even if it was a silly thing, it still struck a cord in you. This something meant something to you or you wouldn´t have made your choice. So just keep clinging to it.
If you feel that something changed your faction that made it unpalatable to you, still stick to it. Teach the youngsters what it really meant to be part of X. What its real spirit was.

I think all you can wish for for your faction is that if it dies...it should die well.
(Just like a beloved RPG character.)
A story of drama is one of loss or potential loss. These are the good stories. If you like stories where everything is A-OK all the time and in the end everything turns out peachy, you should not play a wargame.

----------

That being said. Bring it on Halas-Horde! We´d rather break than bend!

Apologies for derailing.