Council and Grand Council votes

[Akalabeth]

So, some votes require majorities or unanimous decisions. What if some members of the council are not present, does the vote take place? Or is it delayed until such time all parties can be assembled? For example, when Ulric was elected. If not all members of the Grand Council had returned or made it back, would the election have happened without them?

[Stormfury]

The Clans distinguish between Kurultai ("normal" council sessions) and Grand Kurultai ("extraordinary" council sessions).

If it's the former, there just needs to be a quorum. If it's the latter, everyone has to attend.

Grand Kurultai can only be convened on Strana Mechty and the Khans must be physically present. For a normal Kuraltai, HPG uplink or even non-attendance (such as the Blood Spirits) is OK.

[Akalabeth]

The Clans distinguish between Kurultai ("normal" council sessions) and Grand Kurultai ("extraordinary" council sessions).

If it's the former, there just needs to be a quorum. If it's the latter, everyone has to attend.

Grand Kurultai can only be convened on Strana Mechty and the Khans must be physically present. For a normal Kuraltai, HPG uplink or even non-attendance (such as the Blood Spirits) is OK.

So I'm guessing that if the subject of the council session was for example, calling for absorption, annihilation, abjuration or election of an il-khan it would fall into the grand kurultai requirement? Though, I got the impression Blood Spirit has been absent for a long time so not sure how the big votes went ahead (invasion, absorbing burrock, electing ulric, abjuring Nova Cats and presumably GB)

[Guardsman]

If I recall correctly, it’s the duty of one of the intra-clan organisations to inform the loremasters of each Clan that their Khans will be required, and whether it is a regular Kurultai or Grand Kurultai.

[Stormfury]

So I'm guessing that if the subject of the council session was for example, calling for absorption, annihilation, abjuration or election of an il-khan it would fall into the grand kurultai requirement?

Yup. That assumes they have such activities on the itinerary. During the Jihad there was a Kurultai that the Wolves and Falcons (IIRC, one of them at least) were attending via HPG real-time link and a vote was called to appoint an ilKhan. Whether this is a breach of tradition or protocol is anyone's guess, but since it is one of the final communications the Invading Clans had with the Homeworlds and the Grand Council no longer has any authority any way, it probably doesn't matter too much.

Though, I got the impression Blood Spirit has been absent for a long time so not sure how the big votes went ahead (invasion, absorbing burrock, electing ulric, abjuring Nova Cats and presumably GB)

Apparently they were there for the Revival debate, as they voted in favour of the Invasion. They seem to have been a bit more active since 3048 at the Council, though.

There was a call to Abjure the Ghost Bears, but it was defeated.

[Guardsman]

Whether this is a breach of tradition or protocol is anyone's guess, but since it is one of the final communications the Invading Clans had with the Homeworlds and the Grand Council no longer has any authority any way, it probably doesn't matter too much.

I’m curious, what’s the source on that being the last known contact between the Homeworld Clans and the Inner Sphere Clans? Was there any foreshadowing at all in it?

[Stormfury]

One of the last; I don't think it was the absolute last, but it was an event that presaged the loss of contact, yes. Someone called for an ilKhan to be elected and nominated Perigard Zalman, at which point the virtual attendees declared it a farce and severed their link.

The event probably has to do with the beginnings of the Wars of Reaving in the homeworlds, but they've been circumspect about keeping that stuff a mystery.

[Guardsman]

Perigard Zalman would make an excellent ilKhan. Cautious and calculating, pragmatic, a staunch traditionalist, politically savvy, with foresight, he played the long game, rarely made mistakes, and always learned from them. They could, and have, done far worse with others.

[Stormfury]

Not really. Zalman's success is almost entirely attributable to former Khan Breen's constant advice, and his monomania on bringing down the Falcons cost the Vipers dearly. By the end of the Twilight of the Clans arc, Zalman's on the path Elias Crichell trod, up to and including insisting on using a champion in battle instead of fighting himself.

Marthe Pryde, Vlad Ward, Bjorn Jorgenssen, and the new Star Adder Khan would all rate higher on my list than Zalman.

[Deadborder]

One of the last; I don't think it was the absolute last, but it was an event that presaged the loss of contact, yes. Someone called for an ilKhan to be elected and nominated Perigard Zalman, at which point the virtual attendees declared it a farce and severed their link.

The event probably has to do with the beginnings of the Wars of Reaving in the homeworlds, but they've been circumspect about keeping that stuff a mystery.

Might want to check that; Zalman was dead for several years before that point. IIRC (and I'd have to go digging) it was following the Helions nomnination of Marthe Pryde as ilKhan. She refused the nomination and called the prceeddigns a farce (and mocked the Helions in the process)

Though it makes me wonder if this why the Helions chose to invade the Jade Falcon OZ; a temper tantrum on an epic scale

[Stormfury]

Might want to check that; Zalman was dead for several years before that point. IIRC (and I'd have to go digging) it was following the Helions nomnination of Marthe Pryde as ilKhan. She refused the nomination and called the prceeddigns a farce (and mocked the Helions in the process)

Could be. I can't find it in a quick scan of my books, may go digging later.

As for the Hellions, they arrived in the Sphere in bad shape and attacked without a plan, getting them even more pasted. Looks more like they (along with the Hell's Horses, Diamond Sharks, and Snow Ravens, though those were more successful in setting up shop) got drop-kicked out of the Homeworlds and did their best to survive in a hostile situation.

EDIT: OK, have gone through JHS: 3070 and found the puported log of the Kurultai. The nominees were Marthe Pryde (refused to stand), Garrett Sainze (Fire Mandrill) and Stanislov N'buta (Star Adder). I think I have gotten that meeting mixed up with a later log from '72 or '76, and I don't remember where I'm getting the Steel Viper ilKhan from either.

Zalman was killed in '61 (FM: U), so unless there was movement in the interim, the Viper Khans were Brett and Danielle Andrews.

[Daishi411]

i thought nicole hoskins was one of the khans at that time?

[Neufeld]

I think I have gotten that meeting mixed up with a later log from '72 or '76, and I don't remember where I'm getting the Steel Viper ilKhan from either.

The Viper ilKhan was mentioned in JHS 3076, page 101:
"Bad enough they elected a Viper as ilKhan in the first place,..."

[Minchandre]

The Viper ilKhan was mentioned in JHS 3076, page 101:
"Bad enough they elected a Viper as ilKhan in the first place,..."

Six years is definitely long enough to elect a new ilKhan, I'd say, especially in a time of conflict.

[Guardsman]

Could be. I can't find it in a quick scan of my books, may go digging later.

As for the Hellions, they arrived in the Sphere in bad shape and attacked without a plan, getting them even more pasted. Looks more like they (along with the Hell's Horses, Diamond Sharks, and Snow Ravens, though those were more successful in setting up shop) got drop-kicked out of the Homeworlds and did their best to survive in a hostile situation.

EDIT: OK, have gone through JHS: 3070 and found the puported log of the Kurultai. The nominees were Marthe Pryde (refused to stand), Garrett Sainze (Fire Mandrill) and Stanislov N'buta (Star Adder). I think I have gotten that meeting mixed up with a later log from '72 or '76, and I don't remember where I'm getting the Steel Viper ilKhan from either.

Zalman was killed in '61 (FM: U), so unless there was movement in the interim, the Viper Khans were Brett and Danielle Andrews.

Of the three, I think Stanislav N’Buta would be the most likely given the loss of contact with the Homeworlds. Like Liao Sun-Tzu, he may have used the position to press his Clan’s advantage. Garrett Sainze would be the most capable of three to do the job. And Marthe Pryde would be the most fun, since she’d have more Clans Invading the Inner Sphere, opening up an area to the “left” of her OZ, and the “right of the Dominion.

[Nibs]

i thought nicole hoskins was one of the khans at that time?

We thought so too.