Fighter of the Week, Issue #103 — CUT-01* Cutlass

[glitterboy2098]

You know with all these reflec armor designs appearing LAMs could become very powerful from a meta-game perspective, they might be able to mount/use some of the weapon and ammo combo's that can really hurt reflec designs and use them exo-atmospheric, which would give them a useable in-game niche

LAMs are twice extinct by this time period, and given the statements of TPTB about them, there aren't any plans to bring them back a third time in canon. though since they'd said they were dead for good them brought them back for the Jihad, obviously those statements are subject to change if they come up with a really good story for it. but i doubt it.. if they bring them back again, they'd pretty much have to leave them in the setting going forward, and the TPTB seem to regard them as something best left as occasional historical aberrations from the normal Mech focus.

that said i'd love to see some bleeding-edge LAM's with the republic whenever the Fortress walls come down.. but i don't expect it.   :(

and to be honest, you can kill reflec-armor fighters without using LAM's.. you just have to invest in more missile and ballistic weapons that aren't effected by it. though that leaves your fighters with ammo limitations, so it is a definite trade off. the alternative though is to invest in really massive energy weapon bays that can pound the opponent down through sheer damage even if it isn't thresholding. due to the limits on their armor and structure, LAM's are too fragile and slow in fighter mode to go up against modern Aerospace fighters.. and they can't carry much payload either. to be effective at all they have to rely on lightweight energy weapons, and not all that many of them either. so they are fragile, slow, and do weak damage compared to a current tech Aerospace fighter.. not what i'd want to take into a furball.

[chanman]

Pretty sure the solution is gauss for everybody. On the bright side, strike missions are going to score more decapitation kills than ever before!

Note: Did you know that gutting a Stuka D6's weapons and heatsinks (and leaving the fuel, armour, and engine) lets you cram on 4 gauss rifles with 7 tons of ammo? Yup, Mech jockeys get the Thunderhawk. Aero pilots need to lobby for Gausstuka

[SCC]

I'm not thinking about melee (Of course even that we don't even have the rules yet it might be possible for LAMs to make melee attacks while exoatmospheric) but more stuff along the lines of artillery attacks and the like (Mine Clearance Missiles maybe)

[UnLimiTeD]

I recommend waiting for technical details on the new techs, and then loading up on Relasers.
And Gauss Rifles, obviously.
3 MRM40 Bays are also a good approach.

[Welshman]

I'm not thinking about melee (Of course even that we don't even have the rules yet it might be possible for LAMs to make melee attacks while exoatmospheric) but more stuff along the lines of artillery attacks and the like (Mine Clearance Missiles maybe)

Most of these weapons are restricted because they don't work in space, not because aerospace fighters can't use them. For the few remaining, they are restricted because the game play complexity in space would be too great.

The only places that aerospace units see the downside of Reflec armor is for failed Control Rolls when entering the atmosphere or landing/take off.

[jymset]

Neat. How did you guys design each faction's aerospace force? Did you assign factions to individual designers, or did you come up with all the designs, and then assign them to the faction they best fit?

Very early on in the design process, I knew I wanted to outsource AeroSpace units entirely, as those are my Achilles heel. Thankfully, one of my initial core team is an established AT guru. With him I developed an initial outline in which he very carefully planned out units according to factions' needs, concepts we wanted to explore, and likely in-universe developments. When the scope of the project increased and with it the size of the team, Herb broadly mapped out some further unit which I asked the other AT experts who'd joined us to create. And they're all present in this thread. ;)

[Taurevanime]

So does that mean that now you kind of have a 'culture' or rather doctrine for each faction? Some going for more high speed designs, while another might trade speed for armour, while another might go for missiles over ballistics?

I recommend waiting for technical details on the new techs, and then loading up on Relasers.
And Gauss Rifles, obviously.
3 MRM40 Bays are also a good approach.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised to see relasers become more standard equipment once reflec armour does. And I also wouldn't be surprised to see more AMS mounted on ASF units in response to greater use of missile weapons. Especially along the Draconis Combine front.

[Welshman]

So does that mean that now you kind of have a 'culture' or rather doctrine for each faction? Some going for more high speed designs, while another might trade speed for armour, while another might go for missiles over ballistics?

Starting with TRO3085 we made a shift towards a total view for creation of units. This view ranges across both in universe ideas (factions, combat styles, etc.) and game mechanics (Hey look, we have no units using this piece of equipment, let's make one). TROPrototypes built on this concept, but the excellent design lead work of Jymset, on TRO3145, really took it to the next level. We didn't make units just because they were cool or worked. We made units because they fit the universe and the game.

So if it looks like 3145 is more cohesive than some of the older TROs, its for a reason.

[Jellico]

Missiles come under the umbrella of reactive armour. Oddly there is no anti-ballistic armour yet.

I recommend waiting for technical details on the new techs, and then loading up on Relasers.
And Gauss Rifles, obviously.
3 MRM40 Bays are also a good approach.

There are maybe 6 ASF that use reflective armour. Out of maybe 60 currently in use. Relasers are not a good idea.

Interestingly the Clans might already have this covered. Their high heat lasers often forced some cool running ballistics or light weight missiles.

[Gryphon]

Is this "Relaser" (Re-engineered Laser, I believe its called?), going to be in interstellar Ops, or somewhere else, like a dedicated Jihad/Post Jihad era sourcebook? I am not familiar with them, and they are "spoken" of in the threads around here as if they are actually official in nature.

[Scotty]

The rules should be in FM:3145.

[Terrace]

You know, guys, I always wondered why more ASFs don't use Targeting Computers. Any designs coming out in FM: 3145 that use them?

[SCC]

Most of these weapons are restricted because they don't work in space, not because aerospace fighters can't use them. For the few remaining, they are restricted because the game play complexity in space would be too great.

The only places that aerospace units see the downside of Reflec armor is for failed Control Rolls when entering the atmosphere or landing/take off.

While ASF's can't use AP ammo LAMs can, admittedly that's not double damage but if my understanding of how things are set up that means that a PAC-8 firing AP ammo makes a crit role at a net of +1 I doubt your reflec using ASF is going to like dogfighting with that

[JadeHellbringer]

While ASF's can't use AP ammo LAMs can, admittedly that's not double damage but if my understanding of how things are set up that means that a PAC-8 firing AP ammo makes a crit role at a net of +1 I doubt your reflec using ASF is going to like dogfighting with that

Unless there's a rules change that I'm not aware of, the PAC can't use alternate autocannon ammunitions. Admittedly, I'm known to be wrong, but I sure haven't seen anything saying they can use them.

[glitterboy2098]

While ASF's can't use AP ammo LAMs can, admittedly that's not double damage but if my understanding of how things are set up that means that a PAC-8 firing AP ammo makes a crit role at a net of +1 I doubt your reflec using ASF is going to like dogfighting with that

except that the limits on special ammo are a rules level thing, not a unit specific thing. a LAM in fighter mode fighting aerospace units would no more be able to use AP ammo than a an aerospace fighter, because both are using aerospace rules.

on the ground the ground rules dominate, and AP ammo is covered by those rules.

there is no physical reason an aero unit couldn't load AP ammo.. the rules just don't cover it for Aerospace fights.

[Terrace]

except that the limits on special ammo are a rules level thing, not a unit specific thing. a LAM in fighter mode fighting aerospace units would no more be able to use AP ammo than a an aerospace fighter, because both are using aerospace rules.

on the ground the ground rules dominate, and AP ammo is covered by those rules.

there is no physical reason an aero unit couldn't load AP ammo.. the rules just don't cover it for Aerospace fights.

AP ammo in a Mechbuster or an AC/20-toting ASF in a ground attack role. That'd be downright scary.

[SCC]

Unless there's a rules change that I'm not aware of, the PAC can't use alternate autocannon ammunitions. Admittedly, I'm known to be wrong, but I sure haven't seen anything saying they can use them.

PAC's are like LAC's they can use alternate ammo, the scary thing is that an analysis of damage and range bands show that PAC's are cut down versions of normal AC's 2.5 times their size, so for calculations based upon class multiply by that number so for AP ammo the PAC-8 counts as a AC-20, nasty

except that the limits on special ammo are a rules level thing, not a unit specific thing. a LAM in fighter mode fighting aerospace units would no more be able to use AP ammo than a an aerospace fighter, because both are using aerospace rules.

on the ground the ground rules dominate, and AP ammo is covered by those rules.

there is no physical reason an aero unit couldn't load AP ammo.. the rules just don't cover it for Aerospace fights.

That was one of the problems that I thought might rear it's head, I didn't know it was to do with exoatmosperic combat or to ASF's, of course this means that such ammo can be loaded into them when grounded at least

[GreekFire]

PAC's are like LAC's they can use alternate ammo...

Where are you getting that from?

[chanman]

AP ammo in a Mechbuster or an AC/20-toting ASF in a ground attack role. That'd be downright scary.

Screw AP. Load precision and go scout hunting!

[Jellico]

Screw AP. Load precision and go scout hunting!

And it just to show how foward thinking TPTB are with all the recent LAC armed light fighters.

[A. Lurker]

Where are you getting that from?

Probably straight from TacOps p. 286. ProtoMech autocannon rules box, "Game Rules", first sentence: "ProtoMech Autocannons use the same rules as standard autocannons."

What's more, their table writeup on TacOps p. 404 explicitly gives them the "S" tag for "Switchable Ammo Supply". And unlike for artillery cannons, this hasn't been errataed away yet to the best of my current knowledge. So yes, all signs do indeed point towards PACs being able to use all the ammo types that standard autocannons do -- where their users then get them is primarily a fluff issue, StratOps p. 192 explicitly spells out that converting Inner Sphere ammo for use in Clan weapons or vice versa isn't exactly hard.

[Taurevanime]

Missiles come under the umbrella of reactive armour. Oddly there is no anti-ballistic armour yet.

I hope it stays that way. Autocannons are already on the underpowered side, with only Gauss weapons tending to perform really well under the ballistics umbrella. But all the weapons tend to be of very high weight and bulk and ammo dependent. And short ranged too. (Gauss being the exception)

[Gryphon]

We do already have a good answer to a counter ballistic weapon style armor...MOAR ARMORZ!!!

We even have a whole slew of newer fighters, the lead brick brigade, that take advantage of this all new paradigm too!

[Scotty]

We also have the new Ballistic-Reinforced armor mentioned several times in the new TRO:3145 series.  Apparently, though, it's weak to energy weapons, so its utility is likely sub-par.

[SCC]

This unit was a lot of fun to design and represented a turning point for this old Grognard. Having come from the days of Aerospace First Edition, I never quite got the feel of of the middle era Aerospace rules and designs. I still remember when the Chippewa was a greatly feared assault craft and not an eggshell wrapped hammer.

When I first saw some of the other TRO ASF designs and the use of Reflec, I was at first completely disdainful. Jellico was very patient with me and convinced this old fogey to go and re-read the rules. I then realized just how scary effective relfec armor is for aerospace units that don't ever have to worry about physical attacks.

So with a new found respect for reflec armor, I then went to our FotW author's maxims and force profiles to decide just what the FedSuns needed. My goal was to make the big brother of the Dagger. Something that could turn and burn with the FedSuns brick dogfighter.

And the outcome was the Cutlass.

And the art was completely on purpose. The Cutlass was designed by starting with a Stuka airframe and going from there.

Is there a reason you didn't chose to use a Blue Shield as well? (Really that would be more of a Turain design but)

[Alexander Knight]

Is there a reason you didn't chose to use a Blue Shield as well? (Really that would be more of a Turain design but)

Why would the Taurians use Blue Shield?

[chanman]

Why would the Taurians use Blue Shield?

Because... Blue Ox

[SCC]

Why would the Taurians use Blue Shield?

Because I'm pretty sure their the ones behind the Partisan Hull Defense tank which is a forerunner of the whole reflec for aerospace assets craze

[sillybrit]

Nope, it's a purely corporate prototype, having been developed by Kallon Industries, with the specific branch mentioned in XTRO Corp being Nanking. So if any state is to lay claim to that, it'd be either the FedSuns or the WoB Protectorate;the former the owner of Nanking during what would be the development process and the latter having taken over Nanking the year that the prototype was built.

Not that this isn't grossly off topic or anything.

--

Re the Cutlass-Echo, I'm not convinced about the idea of using it as a long range harrasser vs DropShips. The latter's ECM is going to make an already chancy shot even less likely to hit. Sure, Probes could help, but they can only negate so much of the ECM field.

[SCC]

Re the Cutlass-Echo, I'm not convinced about the idea of using it as a long range harrasser vs DropShips. The latter's ECM is going to make an already chancy shot even less likely to hit. Sure, Probes could help, but they can only negate so much of the ECM field.

Actually unless there's been a change to the rules (Or I'm ms-remembering something) Large Craft and Small Craft ECM don't interact so it shouldn't be a problem