Author Topic: Dark Caste Touman  (Read 11337 times)

Hawkeye Jim

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Dark Caste Touman
« on: 14 March 2011, 15:36:04 »
Being the pirate that I am, I've been toying with the idea of a military force organized by Clan origins for the DC. It's no secret some Clans treat their freeborns badly. Also their lower castes. If enough of those lower castes and freeborns fled to the DC and got together, perhaps they could form military units.

What I'm looking at is a combined force of several of these groups. Start with a core made of of the descendants of the Mongoose refugees and Coyote reaving refugees. Let's say a couple of trinaries of each.

Add in angry refugees from Ice Hellions, Jade Falcons, Steel Vipers and Smoke Jaguars. Add in some Burrocks assigned on purpose to train and equip for what ever purposes the Khans had in mind. Maybe a trinaries worth of each except the Burrocks, who would probably be stronger.

Let them go raiding against their original Clans, stealing what they can grab and "rescuing" other freeborns.

Good idea or bad? Any other Clans who's freeborns might want to join in?

Col.Hengist

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #1 on: 14 March 2011, 17:09:45 »
I doubt they are that organised. It has been said by many of the writers that they are not an organization but scattered groups trying to make their way.

  That being said,if you want an AU where some of the people that escaped op:klondike banded together and with the help of that bug clan and refugees from mongoose and wolverine they became a true society then I think it would be awesome.

 But as far as cannon goes,bandits,pirates and DC groups are eliminated in the home worlds pretty quick
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joechummer

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #2 on: 14 March 2011, 19:03:07 »
Don't take this the wrong way, Jim, but when I saw the thread title, I literally laughed out loud  ;D

Yes, the bandit caste likely has some military-grade hardware here and there, and yes they have some (non-military-grade?) naval assets for moving about from system to system, but by no means are they organized enough to consider an outsider calling their military hardware a "Touman."  Even if they were that organized and that well-equipped, I don't see them ever calling their fighting arm a "Touman" simply because they are as far chalcas as chalcas can be and thus would abhor the idea of even using Clan terms for anything.

But anyway, as to your original question, any Clan wherein freeborns aren't treated well would be a likely source for bandit caste recruits.  So at the very least, Hell's Horses, Goliath Scorpions, and Star Adders (and maybe one or two more freeborn-tolerant Clans I'm forgetting) likely aren't going to have many freeborn castoffs into your bandit caste group.


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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #3 on: 14 March 2011, 19:28:35 »
touman is probably the wrong word to use, I agree. But what I'm thinking about is more of a loose organization, with the groups based on what Clan they came from. Steel Viper refugees would have a considerable hatrd for their Clan, and prefer to raid them if they could. if other similar groups hate a Clan biasis against the Vipers, a joint raid might be arranged.

The Burrock connection might be the transport that hauls them around, or trade links with other Clans. This would be before the Burrock absorption. The Mongoose connection might be simply the oldest settlement, sort of a neutral ground for the various groups to get together to plan.

Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #4 on: 14 March 2011, 19:31:09 »
Besides, the DC connected Burrocks might have a more formal organization, since they were still part of a Clan. Perhaps they also supplied some leadership for raids, especially against their enemies.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #5 on: 14 March 2011, 19:45:58 »
Honestly, I see the Burrocks' deal with the bandits as more of a monetary, black market thing (or some kind of information brokerage, such as military intelligence) rather than transport.  Interstellar transport and hardware is a lot easier to track and audit than following a money trail.  I mean, it's a lot easier to explain away a missing crate of laser rifles than it is to explain an absent JumpShip (I dunno, Galaxy Commander.  It just disappeared!) or a DropShip manifest that has a lot of holes and discrepancies in it.

And as far as the bandit caste are concerned, I don't think they give two surats' rear ends about what Clan they originally came from.  Their original Clan cast them out for one reason or another, so a bandit would likely disparage them in any way possible and bond to the bandit caste as their new "Clan" instead.
« Last Edit: 14 March 2011, 19:49:07 by joechummer »


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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #6 on: 14 March 2011, 20:15:20 »
Maybe, but if a Clan cast me out, I'd be very interested in doing something to them in return. If a number of people all left about the same time, they might seek out people with the same grudge.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #7 on: 14 March 2011, 21:04:42 »
What has been said of the disorganisation of the Dark Caste is true, and so I won’t go into that. However, all of those references to its disorganisation were written in universe by people who had no respect for the Dark Caste. So, if you ignore that, and the usual independent streak to the Dark Caste, a charismatic leader could unite them, they could be far more organised than they have led people to believe. It would take a Rim Worlds Republic / Word of Blake like ruse, but it could be done. That they only present the image of independent bandits because it serves their purpose.
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #8 on: 14 March 2011, 21:29:16 »
What has been said of the disorganisation of the Dark Caste is true, and so I won’t go into that. However, all of those references to its disorganisation were written in universe by people who had no respect for the Dark Caste. So, if you ignore that, and the usual independent streak to the Dark Caste, a charismatic leader could unite them, they could be far more organised than they have led people to believe. It would take a Rim Worlds Republic / Word of Blake like ruse, but it could be done. That they only present the image of independent bandits because it serves their purpose.

 It would take a huge amount of organisation on the level of an actual government. I seriously doubt a bunch of cast offs that are constantly being hunted by young mech pilots,ementals,AS pilots... are going to have much of an organisation. But like I said,an AU like that would be cool. Its just not the way it is in canon.
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #9 on: 14 March 2011, 21:56:24 »
Look at one of the books in the Jade Phoenix trilogy, Aidan Pryde remembers his first Sibko leader being killed by a member of the Dark Caste, even had a picture that looked like a cross between a bandito from a spaghetti western and a extra from a Mad Max film. And his only weapon shown I think was a knife. My money is on the the Dark Caste Touman is made of at best vehichles, a very few of them. I don't really remember reading ever that the Dark Caste would have access to anything heavier.
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #10 on: 14 March 2011, 21:58:37 »
Honestly, I see the various dark caste groups on each planet of Clan space being as more like different cells of a thieves guild:  organized enough -- at least on a local level -- to get stuff done, but small enough that they can disappear under the floorboards when the law starts sniffing around.  Each cell might have loose ties to other groups, but there isn't a level of central administration along the lines of a "shadow Khan" or anything.


Philip A. LeeManaging Editor of Shrapnel, the Official BattleTech Magazine. Author of BattleCorps stories A Wolf in the Eyrie, Half of a Warrior, Seeds of Loyalty, Whispering Death, Fragments of History, A Living Epitaph, Double Down, So Costly a Sacrifice, Rain Dance, Quail Hunting, A Show of Force, and A Keystone Arch, Seven Years' Bad Luck, High Value Target, The Face of the Enemy, Horn and Fang, and A Measure of Clarity
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Col.Hengist

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #11 on: 14 March 2011, 22:44:04 »
Look at one of the books in the Jade Phoenix trilogy, Aidan Pryde remembers his first Sibko leader being killed by a member of the Dark Caste, even had a picture that looked like a cross between a bandito from a spaghetti western and a extra from a Mad Max film. And his only weapon shown I think was a knife. My money is on the the Dark Caste Touman is made of at best vehichles, a very few of them. I don't really remember reading ever that the Dark Caste would have access to anything heavier.

 That's right,and when Aiden joined them they rode horses.
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shadow_walker

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #12 on: 14 March 2011, 22:51:58 »
It would be nice to see more info on clan Burrocks contacts with the dark caste.
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #13 on: 14 March 2011, 23:36:30 »
It would be nice to see more info on clan Burrocks contacts with the dark caste.
I'm just surprised how little information we have on the Burrocks overall. Their absorption seemed like little more than a passing notion, and the collaboration with the bandit caste seemed (IMHO) to be just a convenient way for the writers of that time to remove them as a faction and have one less group to deal with, and they didn't realize the fans would be curious as to the details, thus biting themselves in the foot.

OR, maybe Herb & Co. still have as-of-yet-unpublished plans for this glossed-over part of BattleTech history.


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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #14 on: 14 March 2011, 23:50:36 »
Good idea or bad? Any other Clans who's freeborns might want to join in?

I like the idea of a unit behind enemy lines raiding the Clans. However I am not sure Dark Caste is the way to go. Remember that being Dark Caste is anathema to the Clans. It's not a very compelling reason to band together and pool resources. I would imagine that an exiled warrior would be more inclined to seek death in combat than be part of the Dark Caste. Maybe a merc or SLDF unit that was cut off and stranded during Operation Bulldog?

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #15 on: 15 March 2011, 01:51:32 »
It should be noted that the Clans station marines and put guns on everything, seemingly, or so its been noted by many observers.  I think the notion that our view of them is an IC one, tainted by the IC notion of their inferiority, but one that offers little concrete information and leaves a lot open.  Its not hard to imagine the Clans don't know the extent simply because they don't care enough to track it.  Would warriors even notice if the odd merchant ship went missing?  Maybe some would, and maybe that's why they have to put warriors on every one to keep track of them.  But its also possible that its because the Dark Caste pray on them at least some of the time.

I think its a clear case of "what ever works for you."  In as much as the Dark Caste is definatly not such a big or well organized group that the Clans feel legitimately threatened by it, it seems to be substantial enough that they don't or can't simply ignore it, so any place inbetween is perfictly workable within what's known about them in the limited information we're given.

That said, I'd probably ignore the Mongeese, who seem to have gone down swinging, and went down so long ago that there's little hope of having kept their identity after all this while.  The Coyote reving, the Hellion's mini-civil war, even the Smyth-Jewel annihlation would be better candidates, though there's little to no evidance that any of these groups produced survivors that fled the Clans.  And of course there's always Wolverine fragments, since we know they didn't all make it to Terra and ComStar.  Add in the odd star or trinary that 'pulled a Burrock' and just up and left on their own, for no better reason than that they were fed up.  Plus, innumerable test downs and lower castemen, who have ample reason to be bitter, and its easy enough to have as many or as few Dark Caste as you'd like.  And with raided equipment, as well or as poorly armed as you'd like (if IS pirates can capture Clan omnis, then the Dark Caste should have no problem).
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #16 on: 15 March 2011, 01:58:51 »
. . . what happened to Clan Coyote?
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #17 on: 15 March 2011, 06:50:55 »
Here's part of my thinking: When the Nova Cats, Ghost Bears, Snow Ravens left the Clan worlds, it's entirely possible that some number of their people got left behind. A Dark Caste agent, yes they likely have some among the Clans, contacts them and offers to help them escape being taken over by another Clan.

There wouldn't have to be a large number, say 15-20,000 from each Clan, with a couple dozen warriors. Add in refugee Burrocks rejecting absorption, and refugee Smoke Jaguars rejecting destruction, and you could have a decent size group. They would probably cling to their own kind for a while, at least.

Add in a charismatic leader, a Clan version of Devlin Stone, and maybe build some kind of anti-Clan coalition. Once the WoR starts, chaos allows more freedom to raid, pulling in more warriors and euipment, especially from Clans being destroyed.

Once the Clans have beaten each other senseless, the coalition might be strong enough to seize a poorly defended planet or two and become a real power, similar to one of the periphery states. The Clans might be too fought out to do anything about it.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #18 on: 15 March 2011, 11:21:30 »
I'm just surprised how little information we have on the Burrocks overall.

I'll like too see historical dedicated to one/all the dead clans.
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #19 on: 15 March 2011, 13:00:04 »
I'll like too see historical dedicated to one/all the dead clans.

Hear, hear!
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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #20 on: 15 March 2011, 13:35:49 »
Too much of the thinking about the Dark Caste is that are a disorganized bunch constantly on the run or in hiding. It's known that they are capable of defeating and killing smaller detachments of warriors sent against them. maybe more like the Star's End pirates would be closer to true. Or Redjack Ryan's bunch.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #21 on: 15 March 2011, 15:08:57 »
I think you're seeing too many things that aren't there Jim.  There's no indication that the Dark Caste are anything more than disorganized castoffs that live on the fringes of Clan society.  Where do you think they would get the resources to build a touman? The factories? The ability to hide that well?
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #22 on: 15 March 2011, 16:10:56 »
Touman is a poor choice of words. I'm thinking more of a semi-organized group of pirates working as a larger group from time to time to make their raids more effective. A three trinary raid can do more than a binary-size one.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #23 on: 15 March 2011, 20:15:49 »
Any hint of an organized resistance or force on the Homeworlds would probably lead to a wholesale hunt of said force. They have no place in Kerenskys society and would as a matter of course be hunted down. It would be a given if they fielded mechs due to the typical Clan Warrior having nothing but disgust for anyone not being Clan and being a mechwarrior. There pride wouldn't allow non-Clan mechwarriors or Warriors in general to run around on the homewords. Best bet is that the typical Dark Caste force has more to do with smuggling than anything else, where disguise and concealment would be the tools of the trade.
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #24 on: 15 March 2011, 20:17:36 »
. . . what happened to Clan Coyote?

I think he's referring to the Blood Scandal, which, IIRC, happened during the Political Century, where some Crusader-minded Coyotes and some Star Adders conspired to end Warden dominance within the Coyotes.  Their plot was foiled, and ALL Bloodrights of the Bloodnamed traitors were Reaved away entirely.

He's certainly not talking about the Wars of Reaving, because no one but Herb & Co. quite knows what's going on with that.
« Last Edit: 15 March 2011, 20:26:40 by joechummer »


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Hawkeye Jim

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #25 on: 15 March 2011, 20:26:46 »
The dark caste must have some combat forces. The clans seem to regularly send mech units after them, and sometimes report losses. If it was just smuggling and similar activities, they wouldn't need anything but regular ground troops for it.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #26 on: 15 March 2011, 20:29:55 »
And the units sent to hunt the dark caste are generally the dregs of the touman.  Yes, the dark caste has *some* combat forces.  Small tiny amounts.  The reason that new hunts have to be undertaken is that the numbers are always fluctuating as new Clansmen go rogue. 
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #27 on: 15 March 2011, 20:55:14 »
Plus, wait for it...Sometimes even the Dark Caste can get lucky. Plus as the Clans typically send the dregs of there Toumans against the Dark Caste there not sending frontline Omnimechs against Dark Caste forces, and probably not even second line mechs or vehichles. probably just dispatching aged warriors armed with the lowest grade conventional weapons against them in jeeps. Why waste something more valuable on Dark Caste scum?
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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #28 on: 15 March 2011, 20:56:40 »
Normally tiny amounts. But as Clans flee the Homeworlds, do the forces left stranded join the DC and swell their ranks? I have never seen anything to say one way or another. If a Clan is driven out, like the Cats and Horses were, their left behinds are not going to feel kindly towards the other Clans.

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Re: Dark Caste Touman
« Reply #29 on: 15 March 2011, 21:05:21 »
And the units sent to hunt the dark caste are generally the dregs of the touman.  Yes, the dark caste has *some* combat forces.  Small tiny amounts.  The reason that new hunts have to be undertaken is that the numbers are always fluctuating as new Clansmen go rogue.
I don't think it's so much as Clansmen going rogue as it is them getting Abjured or kicked out for underperforming, not meeting work quotas, breaking Clan law, etc. cos when you're kicked to the curb, the dark caste is your only option.  The only real defection to the bandit caste I can think of is those Trinaries of Burrocks that defected and were "hunted down" by their fellow Burrocks.


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