(Answered) Handicap/Fit Traits

[Acolyte]

First
Print edition AToW:

pg 184 Fatigue Table under Handicap: Multiply all Fatigue points sustained from exertion and Continuous damage (but not standard damage or Subduing attacks) by 2.
pg 189 Fatigue Accumulation table under Fatigue Effects Multiplier: Handicap x2.

pg 118 Handicap table: -4 Major disability No functionality in a larger area or system, such as an arm or a lung, or double Fatigue for strenuous activity (see Fatigue p. 189)

So, does anyone with an allergy to peanuts or shellfish automatically fatigue at double the rate? Or are the tables wrong and only people with the -4 Major Disability - specifically described as double fatigue - taking double. Or does the -4 Handicap give give you a net x4?

Second
The relation between Fit and Handicap.

Does someone with a tree nut allergy have a harder time getting fit? And does getting Fit get rid of the nut allergy? Does being Asthmatic (inherited, therefore genetic) mean you lack the ability to become Fit (15% of the current US Olympic team who are asthmatic might disagree with this).

In short, why are these related? Unless the specific Handicap is "unfit" of course. :)

   - Shane

[Acolyte]

Bump.

I think that I see the problem, though. Reading through AToW Companion shows that Handicap is a conglomerate of MW3rd traits including Allergy, Disabled, Low Endurance, an Unhealthy. Presumably this was done to mitigate the character bloat from 3rd ed, which is a good thing IMO. O0

Unfortunately this means a character with a -1TP Handicap of sneezes when Cotton Trees are in bloom winds up with the following:

1. Cannot get the Fit Trait.
2. Takes double Fatigue from exertion or continuous damage
3. Takes an additional day to heal 1 BD

All this, even on a planet with no Cotton Wood trees. :)

Perhaps adding to the notes on the tables (pg 184 and 189) of "If appropriate, see Handicap pg.118" might help as well as a similar note under healing (or removing the sentence about handicap and using it as an example on pg 118).

Another note: Compulsion is already used to reflect medical issues, such as medications suddenly necessary from elective implants and permanent injury, so why not make it Compulsion/Medical? Might have to leave out the part in the description about irrational behavior though, as needing alcohol to get through the day is irrational - taking the medicines prescribed by your doctor is not, nor are allergies all in your mind (although that would make a weird compulsion....).

Anyhow thanks for reading, just my 2 c-bills.
   - Shane

[HABeas2]

Hi,

Idiosyncrasies like that are why p. 33 tells us about GM Adjudication. We realized that the nature of a RPG is such that it simply cannot rigidly account for every possible circumstance players may come up with in the rules, but we still wanted to keep the rule-bloat down that existed in the days of MW3rd/CBTRPG.

Thanks,

- Herb

[Acolyte]

Well, I guess I can accept that....

But try telling an asthmatic player that the trait that would most fit asthma is a psychological one. They were not impressed.

Thank you for your consideration.
   - Shane

[HABeas2]

Hi,

Compulsions don't have to cover just the psychological. Many drug addicts can be physical addicts, whether the drug is crack cocaine, nicotine, prescribed anti-depressants, or insulin.

The GM is presumed to not be a robot, and the rules are not written for binary logic, because AToW is an RPG, and not a war game. So, I would recommend your GM consult with the player on a good fit for a given medically-driven Compulsion trait, or an actual Handicap trait. But remember this: In both cases, they have to be bona-fide negatives to the character; if they're not impacting your character, then the GM has basically given the player free XP.

Thanks,

- Herb

[Acolyte]

Understood, but the mechanics of a medically controllable condition most closely fit the compulsion trait, not the Handicap. I.E. you get your meds, your body works just fine, 24 hours without, you've got serious problems.

The problem lies in someone with, in this case, asthma reading the description of compulsion.

"A character with a Compulsion Trait has an irrational tendency towards some kind of negative behavior, ranging from a minor quirk like fear of heights or a superstition, to a more serious addiction to drugs or alcohol."

To someone with a legitimate medical condition, this is insulting. So is the other option of not being able to get the Fit Trait by taking a Handicap.

See, both of these reflect real world stereotypes that Asthmatic have actually had to deal with. The first being "it's all in your mind, get over it" the second being "you have asthma, therefore you can't be physically fit, don't bother trying", and this came out at character gen.

I said my table my rules and granted that fully controllable Handicaps were no barrier to getting the Fit trait - using the mechanics of Compulsion. Problem mostly solved, but the player is still annoyed that this stereotype got portrayed in the gaming system.

So the question is, as a game company, how many players - and potential customers - are disabled?

Just a thought. Overall it's still the best system I've used.

   - Shane

[Acolyte]

One thing though:

Do all the penalties (extra Fatigue and extra time to heal) apply to all Handicaps regardless of TL? Or are they specific penalties of different Handicaps.

I say they're specific to different Handicaps, but I'd like to know the official answer. O0

Apologies if I've seemed antagonistic.
   - Shane

[HABeas2]

Hi,

We don't have demographics on our players, of any kind. I doubt we could even tell you which country the game is being played in the most, let alone the colors, genders, sexual orientations, ages, marital status, religions, and medical conditions are that they have. Heck, we couldn't even guarantee that all of our players are even HUMAN these days, because it's always possible that aliens or animals or mythological creatures have gained access to our books.

But I assure you that no effort was expended in attempting to offend any portion of the fan base thereof. This is, after all, a universe where race and ethnicity are largely less important than whose flag you're fighting for, even if it's House Davion!

I would therefore surmise that it is possible one might be reading too much into the rules to presume they are stereotyping anything. As you indicated, you simply decided the compulsion fit the symptomology better. But if the rule offends, the solution is simple: Do not use it. If you want to say this character's asthma has no impact on his performance at all, that's not even worth a negative Trait point, because you've rendered the matter no more significant than him having blue eyes and red hair. Demanding additional specific, special rules for every single, special instance is, after all, how MW3rd/CBTRPG became a 10 year long set of rules bloat, and we boiled a LOT of stuff down into abstractions to specifically do away with that. The Word Health Organization, as of right now, names at least 6,000 rare diseases and 12,000 disease categories. Multiply that by the number of human-occupied worlds in BattleTech, and it's possible your brain would melt from a heretofore undiscovered version of encephalitis (I have no idea, though; I'm not a doctor).

If you want an apology, I'm sorry, but no offense was intended, and it seems rather pointless to be offended by a game mechanic that the GM is specifically authorized to change at will.

Thanks,

- Herb

[HABeas2]

Hi,

Do all the penalties (extra Fatigue and extra time to heal) apply to all Handicaps regardless of TL? Or are they specific penalties of different Handicaps.

As mentioned in my last post, it's an abstraction, and one put in to provide some kind of overall impact on what could be a broad range of conditions. (Hint: ALL game rules are abstractions. This isn't science, here, and it's not simulation; it's a role-playing game in a setting that makes no real sense, like scores of other RPGs.) Those features are to justify that your character has to have a drawback for whatever he applied to his character in exchange for bonus XP. As I mentioned earlier, making those go away too much is up to the GM, but may actually render the condition completely moot and therefore not worthy of being considered a Handicap at all. It's up to you. (Heck, the Handicap trait Table on p. 118 actually uses the term "Suggested Handicap Effects" That word--suggested--means it's a "soft" rule, because hey, we knew we were talking abstractly about tons of possible conditions. Amazing, right?)

I say they're specific to different Handicaps, but I'd like to know the official answer. O0

And, as noted,  that's entirely up to you. Another reason we didn't give specific rules for many specific conditions is because we realized that too many rules is a freaking buzz-kill, and it still won't stop your munchkins and rules lawyers. So, once more, the GM's word is the law.

So, get your GM to make a ruling and get playing, already!

Thanks,

- Herb

[Acolyte]

It seems I was.... venting, I apologize. :-[

I've talked to the player and explained that this thing is really an artifact of getting rid of the bloat from MW 3rd by condensing similar traits into one, and he's fine with that. He realizes that no offense was meant (or probably even known about) so that's cool too.

Also, his character has no ability to manufacture his meds, so if he goes to a low tech world he'll have to take a supply for the entire time he's there! I've also reserved the rights to a "flare up" when appropriate, and those meds are not free, they cost every month. In essence, he either has a negative extra income or a handicap trait depending on availability.

So, sorry about the venting, and hey, if all complaints are nit picks, that's actually a good sign as to the robustness of the system. O0

Thank you for taking the time to reply. It really is the best version of the RPG.

   - Shane