Most Overrated Mech?

[pensiveswetness]

The Snake is one.

Built as an anti-Elemental 'Mech, with an LB-10X and 3 Streak SRM-2s.

Not that great at the time, because you couldn't target Battle Armour with Infernos. Not that great now, because you can't load Infernos in Streaks any more.

The Wolf Trap was specifically built to counter the Wolfhound... It was unlikely to manage that against the WLF-1, never mind the upgraded models.

i disagree about the Snake. It publicized purpose was anti-elemental combat. it's actual intended foe was anything with a Davion FedCOM/Suns insignia on it... the Capellans never imagined the clans ever being a direct foe (in their insular society, most middle and lower caste people probably never heard any mention of the clans, or at least never believed) but the Davion military machine? Oh yeah, that boogyman existed for them. The Snake just took advantage of all the capellan capasity they still possessed. Overated verses the non-existant Clan threat, sure? against Hanse Davion and his devil spawn? maybe...

[marauder648]

Gotta go with the Warhammer 6R here.  Over gunned, over sexed and under armoured.  I lost TWO of the damn things to them falling over and setting their MG ammo off in action against the Clans.  One had its torso shredded, toppled, Crunch. BAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM the other one fell over, floating crit. Ammo hit. BAAAAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOM!

[me] FFFFFFFFFFFF....

Also Executioner Prime

Heatsinked up the yazoo yet its mighty firepower is a 35 points of long range damage on a poorly armoured chassis.  The other variants are fine but the Prime...what the hell were they smoking when they let the lunatic who made the Hellbringer near the Gargolye.  He must have run in hooting and arms-a-flailing, screamed "SPEED IS ARMOUR!" And then run off being chased by his handlers who were trying to give him his meds for the day and take him back to the padded cell.  Also WHY SO MANY HEATSINKS?  Seriously was they planning on fighting on the surface of suns or the liquid metal layers of Gas Giants on that thing?

[marauder648]

Sooooo seconded.

For my running: the Hellstar.  Oh sure, it powerful.  It also can't critseek and it's BV is so high it can't be readily used in-game.

what are ye smoking :s The Hellstar does not need to critseek when it can limb mechs with ease and core a heavy with a full blast.

[False Son]

Until they bring reflective armor.  Then your BV is jacked sky high for 23 hex ERMLs.

[Savage Coyote]

Until they bring reflective armor.  Then your BV is jacked sky high for 23 hex ERMLs.

It happens; then you blast the other stuff that doesn't have the reflective armor.  Unless someone's spamming the same 3145 design or playing DCMS, you won't have a ton of it around.  Rock-paper-scissors and all that :)

[JadeHellbringer]

It happens; then you blast the other stuff that doesn't have the reflective armor.  Unless someone's spamming the same 3145 design or playing DCMS, you won't have a ton of it around.  Rock-paper-scissors and all that :)

Plus a 95-ton Mech moving 4/6 can make for a pretty unpleasant melee opponent, if all else fails.  O0

[Pa Weasley]

Plus a 95-ton Mech moving 4/6 can make for a pretty unpleasant melee opponent, if all else fails.  O0

Especially if you're packing reflective armor.  ::)

[Wolf Reaper]

It happens; then you blast the other stuff that doesn't have the reflective armor.  Unless someone's spamming the same 3145 design or playing DCMS, you won't have a ton of it around.  Rock-paper-scissors and all that :)

 And this is why you team Hellstars with the Cygnus.  >:D

[Redman]

It happens; then you blast the other stuff that doesn't have the reflective armor.  Unless someone's spamming the same 3145 design or playing DCMS, you won't have a ton of it around.  Rock-paper-scissors and all that :)

Yeah. It's a good example how those new rock-paper-scissors technologies make BV a rather difficult concept to work.   :-\

[Mattlov]

Wraith - One trick pony that EVERYONE knows the trick on.  Looks like a great idea, and isn't.

[False Son]

It happens; then you blast the other stuff that doesn't have the reflective armor.  Unless someone's spamming the same 3145 design or playing DCMS, you won't have a ton of it around.  Rock-paper-scissors and all that :)

It's a 2 way street.  The Hellstar is good for the same reason it is vulnerable to Reflective Armor and Blue Shield, it spams one weapon.  It's still a good mech, until it runs into those defenses.  Even plasma cannons don't curb the Hellstar's bite that much.

[Jellico]

Also WHY SO MANY HEATSINKS?  Seriously was they planning on fighting on the surface of suns or the liquid metal layers of Gas Giants on that thing?

Because storing fixed heat sinks in the engine is a useful way of reclaiming critical space on an OmniMech. 15 DHS is not an uncommonly used number with Clantech. The price is sometimes the 'Mech runs too cool.

[MistWolf]

The Atlas is the most over rated mech in my mind. In the first campaign I played, we had nearly 20 players and to man. they talked in awe and fear of the Atlas. In the beginning, no one could afford to field one, so I didn't get to see on in action until one was fielded against my unit. As a new player, all the talk had me spooked. When I saw that monstrosity coming after me, I stayed out of range of it's AC20 and harassed it with faster mechs using PPCs and bombarded it with indirect LRMs and dropped it before it could get off a shot. A bit of overkill, as it turned out but after that encounter, I lost all fear of that mech. Taught me that all mech designs have flaws that can be exploited. Now, I'd take on an Atlas 7D with a Griffin 1N one on one with confidence

Another over rated mech is the Hunchback 4G. The AC20 is surely a fearsome weapon, but the Hunchback is not maneuverable enough to bring it into play effectively. It's not manueverable enough to survive the firestorm it will take in closing with larger mechs and is too slow to catch a smaller mech. It's lack of jump jets really handicaps it

The Hatchetman is another over rated mech. In all the games I watched my players field a Hatchetman, only three or four times were they able to out-maneuver an opponent well enough to launch a hatchet attack and only once did it connect

Probably the most over-rated of all the is The Little Mech That Could- the Urbie. Almost everyone agrees it shines in a city where it's jump of 2 makes it the master of ambush. I've yet to see where less maneuverability is an advantage. When you get into town, it's too easy to bypass the little trash bins and crush them at your leisure. The real reason the Urbanmech is brought along is because it's so dang cute and pathetic, it would be heartless and cruel not to

[MadCapellan]

Probably the most over-rated of all the is The Little Mech That Could- the Urbie. Almost everyone agrees it shines in a city where it's jump of 2 makes it the master of ambush. I've yet to see where less maneuverability is an advantage. When you get into town, it's too easy to bypass the little trash bins and crush them at your leisure. The real reason the Urbanmech is brought along is because it's so dang cute and pathetic, it would be heartless and cruel not to

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the UrbanMech to be an incredible 'Mech, simply that it punches well above its weight.  It's not a 'Mech, it's a semi-mobile gun emplacement.

As for most overrated, I'm probably going to have to agree with everyone who's said the AS7-D Atlas and the MAD-3R Marauder.

The Atlas is a seriously handicapped 'Mech design which is only really dangerous at point-blank range, and it's so slow that nothing will end up there unless they're careless, they want to be, or they're stuck holding their position either due to damage or to defend an objective. As mentioned above, it's very easy to defeat with 'Mechs like the Griffin using shoot and scoot tactics.

The stock Marauder has the opposite weakness. People like to think of it as a line of battle unit, but it's really a specialized fire support unit akin to the Rifleman. It's virtually impossible for the Marauder to defend itself at point-blank range. Interestingly, the original fluff described it as a rare commander's 'Mech, and in that role, standing back and firing in support of a lance of brawlers, it's a good sniper platform.

[mike19k]

The Berserker. Only one variant is worth using and that is the C3 every other variant is terrible and all the c3 ensures is that it'll be the first mech to be shot down because 40 point tsm kicks are that much of a threat.

The base Berserker a 4/6(8) 100 ton mech, firepower is a little light but I think fine, better the closer you get. It does not have enough HS to fire everthing every turn, but every now and then. Not max armor but close. I think that is is a good mech, maybe not the best but a good one.

[MistWolf]

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the UrbanMech to be an incredible 'Mech, simply that it punches well above its weight.  It's not a 'Mech, it's a semi-mobile gun emplacement.

Compared to some of the discussions about it, both on and off this board, yes. It's like the Li'l Trashcan is a favorite mascot! :)

The stock Marauder has the opposite weakness. People like to think of it as a line of battle unit, but it's really a specialized fire support unit akin to the Rifleman. It's virtually impossible for the Marauder to defend itself at point-blank range. Interestingly, the original fluff described it as a rare commander's 'Mech, and in that role, standing back and firing in support of a lance of brawlers, it's a good sniper platform.

This is how I'd sum up the MAD-3R, although it runs hot each time it fire both PPCs. You can make it work as an anchor mech but I'd rather have the MAD-3D to do the same job

[Nahuris]

I do have to agree with some of this -- the Marauder has always failed to perform for me... not only because of it's weaknesses, but because the fluff causes everyone to target it, which enhances it's weakness. Warhammers are a mixed bag... they can do well for me, if I get my normal 2 to 3 turns to set and join the pace of the battle.... but then again, per the people I have played with.... I use very unorthodox tactics.

As for the Timberwolf Prime, it suffers from attempting to be a front line brawler, and, at the same time, a fire support design. A good front line fighter should have one or two hard hitters... PPC's, Gauss, ect. Plus support, whereas the Timby has those LRM's and ER Larges... both better in a support or sniping role. I know that the Clan ER Larges do 10 damage... but the Clan heavy hits are 15 pointers, which makes their Large Lasers the equivelent of the IS Large Lasers, as compared to the Heavy Hits of their time --- the PPC, and the AC/10 ----  They have good range, and decent power, but rely on wear down rather than hard punches. That it sits at the max weight for a heavy just emphasizes it -- which is why I rarely field any other variant than the D with it's twin ERPPC's, although I would prefer to have all 4 SRM6 racks aimed forward.

The Urbie is the unofficial mascot of Battletech... it's the little underdog that could.....

As for another over-rated mech, I have to pretty much state, the Shadowhawk.

Nahuris

[Jellico]

How bad are Marauders in the context of BattleDroids? Things are a bit different when the competition is the Rifleman, Crusader, Archer, Warhammer, and Battlemaster.

[theothersarah]

I've never heard anyone seriously consider the UrbanMech to be an incredible 'Mech, simply that it punches well above its weight.  It's not a 'Mech, it's a semi-mobile gun emplacement.

I feel that the UM-AIV is legitimately incredible. It's somewhere in my top 10 favourites, alongside things like the Agrotera and Men Shen F.

[elf25s]

atlas is ok but i always thought it was used and deployed wrong.it is big scary and tough to crak but weapons just do not go with the image it is trying to create
i mean it it should be really used in urban environs...like urbie. weapons are not geared toward long range but more of short to mid range and to be honest almost if not all long range should be scrapped. if atlas is deployed in urban i usually win against other opponents due to my lack of speed which puts me on even footing with other mechs that really cant use theirs to their advantage..armor can take a lot of punishment too. one game in city  i managed to come up behind a stinger and kick the legs from it and then stomp its head in without a shot or taking a damage, then i took out two more stingers when i knocked the building down and got them stuck in rubble. what i am trying to say even most under estiemated or over rated mechs can be bastards if used in environs the perform best.
take raven good speed good ecm and all around pretty decent scout. now set that sucker in the semi heavy woods or urban setting and it could become a scrap pile. best results i got was hilly terrain with light woods and some buildings...frankly i find stingers better than ravens in a lot of situations ...

lets not talk about LAMs period...

[marauder648]

The Urban is definately a mascot and its the little mech that punches well above its weight if it does hit you Also..



Look at it! Just look at it!

The Urbanmech.  Because someone's got to try

http://1d4chan.org/images/0/09/Never_give_up.jpg

[Feign]

Okay, I'm seeing this thread drop out of "what mechs are overrated" and into "What mechs are bad"

I'm going to second the motion that the AS7-D isn't bad at all for its time period and role.  However, times move on, and the AS7-K4 just isn't spectacular, but it's at least somewhat threatening again for its era.  Then of course later, the Atlas II and IMO more importantly, the AS8-D, which may even be a little underrated...

The only Atlas I see as firmly overrated is the Atlas III.  So advanced...  Nothing that deals more than 8 damage in one cluster.



However the Grand Titan is hilariously overhyped.  I've had a player bankrupt his merc company on one in the era where it was introduced, and lost it in the first battle, demand a re-do, and lost it again.

The Berzerker is pretty bad, but all models of it can move 8 hexes...  People who think it's bad forget that the versions that don't have TSM have a MASC instead.  (It has never been worth its BV though.)

[marauder648]

I'd say the Akuma is overhyped.  Billed as a cheaper Atlas its just that, cheaper in every way even with its more advanced tech and not the blazing heat issues of the Atlas K.  Built for short range to medium range battles its not got the moxie to match its rather awesome face mask.

[Nodachi]

If used right in 3025, the whammy 6R can be a rude surprise when something lighter than you gets in close. Though it's best to keep mechs like the Grasshopper at range otherwise, life hurts. A battlemaster found that out the hard way.

[Fat Guy]

Seems like we have a good few level 1 mechs that fail to live up to a shadow of their fluff. Now, are there any level 2+ mechs that meet the same criteria as those that came before?

The HGN-732 Highlander.  For a 'Mech designed to stand alone in defense of a city, it's outgunned by many intro tech heavies.

[Savage Coyote]

I'd say the Akuma is overhyped.  Billed as a cheaper Atlas its just that, cheaper in every way even with its more advanced tech and not the blazing heat issues of the Atlas K.  Built for short range to medium range battles its not got the moxie to match its rather awesome face mask.

See, I've had really good luck with those.  It just runs forward as fast as possible (which granted, isn't that fast) and once in range does it's thing.  People always complain about speed and stuff, but I've very rarely found someone running 'mechs so fast I can't get to them at some point in the game (and if they are moving that fast, 9 times out of 10 they have to come to me anyway.)

That said, it's an ammo/heat bomb waiting to go up :)

[MistWolf]

Okay, I'm seeing this thread drop out of "what mechs are overrated" and into "What mechs are bad"...

...I'm going to second the motion that the AS7-D isn't bad at all for its time period and role.

The Atlas AS7D isn't a bad mech. Anyone who lets it get within range is going to take a serious drubbing. But it's slow speed and lack of maneuverability makes it difficult to bring those weapons to bear. After hearing of the Atlas being spoken of in fearful hushed tones by my players, I expected it to be truly fearsome. But  found all I had to do was stay out of range and pound it with PPCs and LRMs. Of course, if I'm committing to much of my force to crushing the Atlas (because you can't afford to completely ignore it) my opponent's other mechs are free to commit their mischief

I'd say the Akuma is overhyped.  Billed as a cheaper Atlas its just that, cheaper in every way even with its more advanced tech and not the blazing heat issues of the Atlas K.  Built for short range to medium range battles its not got the moxie to match its rather awesome face mask.

Armed with an ERPPC and an LB-10X, the Akuma can pound on you at range before it closes, hard enough to force a PSR. Once it gets in close, it can add the MRM30 into the mix and give a mech a good thumping

[Getz]

The HGN-732 Highlander.  For a 'Mech designed to stand alone in defense of a city, it's outgunned by many intro tech heavies.

I dunno - I've always done well with the Highlander and don't forget it was the first mech ever to mount a Gauss rifle...

I'll back the MAD-3R.  I actually like using them - in part because of the low bv cost for their weight - but they aren't anywhere near as good as their legendary status would have you believe.

[guardiandashi]

a lot of the mad 3R's issues would be mitigated by moving the ammo

granted it would still have heat issues but ....

[Wotan]

Is it allowed to say Dragon in the 3025 Era ? I mean it is build to be a standard heavy for one of the major houses, that has a great tradition in their highly skilled warriors. Ok compared to other mechs of that era, the Dragon is well armored and fast.
But where are the weapons ? I mean, we are talking about a heavy mech. The backbone of whole armies. A mech everyone want to avoid ... and there are light mechs that do more damage.